Trillian

Yes. In the episode where he is interviewed by Taffett about the pen, he talks about the expensive pen his ex-wife gave him so he’d be less-inclined to lose it.

I’m heartbroken. I loved this show. Some of the best gags (sour milk being put back into the fridge, anyone?) have become ongoing memes in my family. But this is train wreck. It’s not just the politics, which are totally out of character with the Roseanne Connor we knew and loved (although that is really really hard to take). But somehow, all of these amazing actors (Sara Gilbert, John Goodman, and Oscar-nominee Laurie Metcalf) act like they are acting. How could this happen? Can I retcon this - like Dan’s death - and pretend it never happened?

When I was studying Medical Jurisprudence in law school, the prof claimed that, statistically, victims of medical malpractice are far less likely to sue doctors they liked and whom they thought were caring. He cited, in particular, one case we were studying where the deceased’s family sued everyone in sight - except the resident who had actually killed the patient but who had come across to the family as a really nice, compassionate person. I went into a different legal field so I can’t say from experience if this is true, but it seems plausible that an apology could help do something similar or make it more palatable for the victim to settle for a lesser amount. I think I’d run, not walk, away from any hospital/surgeon who suggested I prepare myself for the eventuality of cutting off the wrong body part. Doctors have to warn about known medical risks, but not about the possibility of gross negligence or incompetence. How would that conversation even go?

Shelters are often really unpleasant places. I often see, through work, people who would prefer to live on the streets rather than deal with the noise, theft and sometimes violence that can take place in a shelter. Plus, they probably want to hide the fact of having lost their housing out of fear that, without stable housing, Social Services would take Deja away again.

I’m so glad that something good finally happened for Kevin, even though I saw it coming when the female co-star said that Ron Howard had sent her a handwritten note and Kevin didn’t get one. They weren’t going to portray Ron Howard as an ass who wouldn’t have also sent Kevin a note. I hope Ron Howard’s prediction comes true and look forward to seeing Kevin in his new tux at the Oscars. I’m already wondering whom he’ll take as his date - his twin sister? Rebecca? Or ... will Sophie return to walk the red carpet? Kevin’s my favourite, so I’m going to hang on to that dream until the show crushes it. Didn’t think it was odd that Kate and Beth had never bonded. I like both of my sisters-in-law well enough, but can’t think of a single heart-to-heart I’ve had with either one in the 25 years or so each has been in my life. We chat pleasantly at family gatherings, but don’t seek each other out as friends. Of course, we all have actual friends, unlike Kate. I don’t need more Déjà. I don’t want more Deja. I want Beth to have been right and pompous Randall to have wrong to have tried to steal a poor woman’s child. I watch this show for the Big Three - all three versions of them - and their parents. The whole time Randall was in Vegas obsessing about Deja, I kept thinking “how are Tess and Annie doing, Randall? Remember them? Even if they’re safe with Rebecca and Miguel or with friends, shouldn’t you remember you have your own kids?”

Priest to Bobby: I don’t understand. How could a space heater cause that big a fire? Me: same way a crockpot does, although not as well done

Agree on the shades of SFU characters. When my husband joined the viewing late and needed a quick catch-up, I said, “That’s the Claire Fisher character with the horse’s head; this time, Nate is the younger one and the gay one, and the Vietnamese guy seems to be David”. The other daughter seems to be, so far, a reasonable stand-in for Brenda. (I will not go into details because of spoilers for both shows, but there’s even a shot in the promo for next week that seems to reinvent a Claire-Brenda plot line). Since I haven’t learned any of their names yet, I’m at serious risk of continuing to call them by “their” SFU names, at least for a while. Of course, I loved SFU, and love Alan Ball, so I’ll keep watching and see where this goes. I think it had potential.

Or the 70s. I’m old. ?

Rather adds a whole new dimension to “where’s Kevin? Oh yeah, he’s dead”.

IRL, they would have hugged each other for comfort, but i suspect the writers were wary of having Miguel touch her because some people on the boards would be screaming about he made a move on the grieving widow before the body was even cold.

Yup. We still use hubby’s crockpot from our student days - it’s at least 30years old and may be older. Still works perfectly, in that way of old appliances that were built to last. In fact, we used it today. AND, we both checked to make sure it was turned off and unplugged as soon as the show ended. Triple-checked.

My condolences to both of you on your loss. I agree Kate's was unrealistically quick and neat. I was also alarmed last night when the doctor said that she had passed most of the tissue in the shower - "most" is not good enough, since all it takes is a little bit to end up with a raging, and potentially fatal, case of puerperal fever. Get that woman a D&C and make sure it's all out. And yeah, Mr. Trillian was also the recipient of the "it didn't happen to your body" scream. Unfair, sure, since he was grieving too. But realistic.

I'm already fed up with the Deja and "Randall is stupid" plotline. You'd think the man had just crawled out of a cave after 30 years or so and doesn't know how to relate to people. Deja would not have died from trying to eat shrimp tails. There was no cause to lay hands on her to save her. And anyway, if Randall had been half-way solicitous of his young charge in the first place, he would have noticed the way she looked at it and would've said "Ever had shrimp before? They're lovely, but the tails are tough - don't eat them". "Sophie (or any woman nearby), would you mind popping [not pooping] into the ladies' room and checking on my foster daughter? " Real simple. And no grown man should ever that easily put himself in the position of being alone with a female child who is not his daughter, or at least a very close relative. False accusations and misunderstandings happen, and the latter is more likely with a child who is obviously uncomfortable around men (Kevin excepted). If Deja were to allege that Randall assaulted her or that he had acted sexually-inappropriate to her, he's got the worst optics: bursts into her bedroom and starts ranting about her personal matters and his mental health problems, bursts into the ladies' bathroom after her, bought her a fancy dress and takes her to a grown-up evening event, was alone with her in the car at night. All innocent acts he did with the best of intentions, but do they ever look bad.

Memphis, about 9 minutes in. Randall tells William "Kate has his ashes, but we spread some of them near a tree at his favourite park".

At the risk of taking this even more off topic, it is a Canadianism to refer to things by their brand names. There are a few of them on this list: http://www.americansguide.ca/isms.html, including Kraft Dinner. when I make macaroni and cheese, I refer to it as "homemade Kraft Dinner" I also make "homemade Beefaroni". And when something spills on the rug, I Hoover it.

An update on real life Paige-and-Henry-like children of illegals. Welcome back to Canada. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/06/23/toronto-born-son-of-russian-spies-wins-fight-to-regain-canadian-citizenship.html

Perfect! What with that, the huge Canadian flags everywhere, and the free healthcare, all that was missing was the Timmy's maple-glazed donut (yum) and a double-double (not that she would have known what that last one is). I did find it oddly jarring that the intake officer said "Welcome to Ontario". The only time I have ever heard a fellow Ontarian self-identify as such is in the hands of an American screenwriter. We might identify with our city "Welcome to T'ronno" (translation: Toronto) or magnanimously speak for the whole country, but we tend not to refer to ourselves by province. It should have been "Welcome to Canada", especially when speaking to a foreign refugee.

Petite bourgeoisie - in English, sometimes "petty" - has a specific meaning in Marxist thought as someone who does not own the means of production but who nonetheless is not of the working class. Common examples would be doctors and lawyers. The term does not work well with a post-industrialist society, where the distinction between the bourgeoisie (roughly approximating the "middle class") and the working class becomes blurred. I think that Tuan was using "petty" in the sense of small-minded, rather than referring to their class ideology. Either way, though, it's a pretty big insult. I had a difficult time upvoting this post - although I did, because I think it's true - just because of the "I'm glad he reported them" sentence. Yuan was objectively right in reporting them, but it breaks my heart because I love Elizabeth. I love her commitment and her intelligence and her skills. I want to sit down with her and chat class struggle and makeup tips over vodka shots (although I think she would hate me and call me a class traitor. And she'd be right, I fear). I want to believe that she was right that she is trusted by the Centre and that anything that little twerp Tuan said against her wouldn't hurt her. And I love that, after Tuan insulted her and tried to hurt her with his report, she is still willing and able to mother and mentor him by suggesting that he needs a partner to get through their crazy difficult career. It's a strength of this season that it does ask that question of how do you soldier through without losing your humanity. All of our favourite spies (Philip, Elizabeth, Stan and Oleg) confront this line in the sand in different ways. Tuan is young - as is Paige - and still has to learn what is personally morally acceptable. He doesn't seem to have confronted that yet. But each of the others has, and each has reached, or is reaching, for a different conclusion. I think this season has been a brilliant character study - despite the lack of action - and can't wait to see how it resolves., even as I mourn the fact that I won't see these characters again after next season.

This is really the only plausible explanation I can see for talking to Pastor Tim. I don't buy that would they really go to him for advice. But, if they wanted to lull him into a false sense of security, it makes sense. As others have pointed out, Tim is truly concerned for Paige and might be inclined to act on his knowledge either before or after he goes to Argentina since he won't be around to "protect" her in person. If, however, he thinks that the family is going to the USSR, where, after a period of adjustment, Paige will be safe and happy, he's less likely to go to the FBI with what he knows. He leaves for Argentina hopeful for her future, and then is quietly killed off.

Putting on my lawyer hat, I'll say that there's a conflation in this discussion here of two separate things: the "seal of the confessional" and "clergy privilege". The latter has been recognized in many common law jurisdictions and codified in others. And there are conditions. It wouldn't be law if there weren't conditions. But the privilege in all cases refers to whether clergy can be forced to testify as to what someone said to him/her in the context of religious/spiritual counselling. As with all privileges, there is a debate about whether the testimony is completely inadmissible or if it is simply non-compellable. (Consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction for case-specific advice.) In other words, if Pastor Tim voluntarily went to the FBI with what Paige told him, as opposed to being forced to testify, it might still be admissible. However, IMO, it would be of very little use legally, since it's hearsay. But - and here's the big "but"that I see - if he went to the FBI and told them what he knew and they investigated and substantiated it, the fruits of their investigation might very well be legal. There's also likely no secular penalty for a clergyman who breaks confidentiality , although the individual church might have some penalty. Putting on my Catholic hat, the "seal of the confessional" refers to the very solemn obligation of a Catholic priest never ever ever to reveal what is confessed to him in the context of the Sacrament of Confesssion. (Some jurisdictions recognize this legally - the root principle being you can't compel someone under oath to break an oath). The penalty for breaking this particular confidence is eternal damnation, in which, presumably, most Catholic priests believe. Pastor Groovy Hair is not Catholic, so it doesn't apply. And even if he were Catholic, what Paige said was not in the context of the Sacrament, and the Seal doesn't apply.

If you're imagining things, then so am I, because I could have sworn I saw such a promo. Are you in Canada? Sometimes we get different promos than the U.S.

Good observation. Tim really is all over the map politically and philosophically. I could buy that anyone of any political stripe could have a copy of Marx that he "read in college", because it could have been assigned reading for a comparative political philosophy course. And the way he spoke this episode is not inconsistent with the full-immersion baptism preacher we saw earlier. But it is inconsistent with the man who chained himself to a fence at a nuclear facility in front of a bunch of his teenaged flock. And that reminds me: what happened to the threat of nuclear war? The show tapped into that real fear that was pretty strong in the times - and seems to have forgotten it in favour of wheat. (Apartheid's another big issue of the day, dear to the liberal crowd, that the show seems to have dropped). Doe-eyed Paige should be all over those issues in the mid-80s, and Philip and Elizabeth should be telling their daughter that they are trying to prevent the madman in the White House blowing up the world. Are we in 1985 yet? Still waiting for Paige to listen to Sting's If the Russians Love Their Children Too. Or would that just be too much?

I've lost track of the timeline (and don't like to think about my age) but I'm about 4-5 years older than Paige and so, yes, I was raised in roughly in the same timeframe. How was I raised a socialist? The same way anyone is raised in any political ideology, be it left or right or centre (or even political apathy). Parents drop constant little hints to their children about what they consider to be right and wrong, commenting on the news or political/social issues of the day or just teaching morality. My father was a good union man and my parents talked about what that meant - in our household "scab" was one of the worst insults you could hurl at someone. It's easier here in Canada to be a socialist, since we have a 3-party system (apologies to the Greens out there) and the left is simply more mainstream than in the U.S., but kids pick up what their parents think is right and wrong, politically or otherwise. They may reject it as they become politically aware, but the foundation is laid in so many little ways. Thats what what I don't understand about how Paige was raised. Any social consciousness she has seems to have come from her exposure to Pastor Tim, and that was more about her wanting to have a feeling of belonging than finding the place where her ideology fit (IMO). If my parents had revealed to me at Paige's age that they were Soviet spies, we would have first had a conversation about how we were democractic socialists and not communists and then about whether the Soviet Union was actually a communist state or simply state capitalism (working class does not equal stupid - oops, there's my background slipping out again). And then, I probably would've said "Yes! Let me join the People's struggle for freedom and equality!" Paige is such a babe-in-the-woods with no social consciousness and no - zero - pre-formed political thoughts, one way or another. I'm not suggesting that P & E should have used Marx's collective works as bedtime stories (and thanks to the poster who clarified that - I had been thinking that Capital should've been a door stopper and not a slim paperback and was confused), but Paige should know *something* about politics rather than being the blank slate she is.

I've never understood how P &E could not have inculcated at least some lefty thinking in their children. We saw a tiny hint of something in the first episode, where Elizabeth talks of other nations' success in the space program, and later in Philip's hotel room, where he tells the kids about why the capitalist insurance company sponsored Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, but that's the extent of what we've seen. Obviously, they can't go around saying "make the rich pay" or advocating revolution, but they could have taught them about social justice issues even within the confines of acceptable American middle class ideology so that it wasn't quite so foreign to them. We haven't even seen a hint, until the last episodes, of a respect for food and an understanding that other people go hungry - that could have been done without any ideology at all. Maybe it is just that they were absentee parents (and they certainly weren't thinking that they were raising the next generation of spies), but you'd think some of it could have rubbed off in some subtle manner without calling attention to their hidden political ideals. As an aside, i thought it was amusing that the Pastor gave Paige Capital to read. I was about Paige's age when I tried to read it. I was a pretty bright kid and had been raised as a socialist but I found it dense and nearly incomprehensible and finally gave up. Give her the Communist Manifesto to read if you want to introduce her to Marxist thought and not bore her to death. Then again, maybe that's why Tim chose it. They could just fly him home on United airlines, instead of Aeroflot. That'll teach him to do as he's told.

I thought they were burnt potatoes. Unappetizing, whatever they were.