RachelKM

No, I was referring specifically to his physical appearance. His nose seemed a bit bigger and I think he grew a couple of inches. l'm really liking this show. I'm bummed more people aren't commenting.

Still watching the episode. But, question, was there a break in filming between this episode and the one before? Walker Scobell's face took on a bit of the early teen awkwardness. Not an insult. I was just wondering because it seemed like he got out of the river a 12 or 13 year old and then was walking down the road a 13 or 14 year old.

No. They are just variations of spelling. Neither name is more associated with either gender.

I've generally assumed that character is meant to be around 5 -10 years younger than the person portraying them, except for Carrie c**** and Morgan Spector who are playing characters approximate their ages (perhaps a few years older depending on how old Larry actually is.)

Yikes. Kelli O'Hara and Ward Horton are the same age. He's actually a few months older. I do think he looks a bit young for for 47 (almost 48) but not enough to look like he could be Kelli's son.

This. I read all of the books, many of them more than once in the since the early 2000s. And I really like To Sir Phillip with Love (it's not my favorite book but I like it.) That said, I completely agree that sticking with the books would be terrible for so many reasons. I'll be honest, I would probably skip that season if they tried. I want them to follow the books generally; but the only changes that have really pissed me off have been the ones that violate the norms of the era in a way that would have been viewed beyond scandalous in the time (the actual engagement of Anthony and Edwina, for instance). In the case of Eloise and Phillip, the changes already made would make following the books would be beyond the pale in terms of the scandal. It was a little unusual for the female cousin of Philip's late wife to begin writing him regularly. But, on the show, Eloise barely even met Marina more that a handful of times. And she met Marina in the context of being her brother's fiancée who attempted to trap him and was publicly outed for it. What possible reason would she have to write to Phillip? And, as I've said before, I don't really think the book would lend itself to the structure of this show. Bridgerton the TV series expanded the view of the book beyond the Bridgerton child of each book and his or her love interest. It had added Queen Charlotte and and expanded the perspective of Lady Danvers. The show is more of an ensemble about the Ton rather than about the 8 Bridgerton children and their eventual spouses. Eloise's book is completely isolated from the Ton and the rest of her family by plot necessity. So, unless we want a story in which the only face we know well is that of Eloise and the remaining cast is two small children and a man we saw briefly in two scenes, it would have to change. But, I don't know, maybe they can find a way. I can't picture it.

God help me, I finished it. It was awful. Julian Fellowes is not a good writer in that he lacks anything like creativity and he seems to sometimes be at a loss how to get from A to B in anything even approximating an organic way. But he and his writing team(s) have some skill with quips and he casts spectacular talents for at least 1/3 of the roles in each of his shows guaranteeing that, even if you are annoyed by the writing and plotting, it's still often fun.

It's more about what the Duke is missing, i.e. money. Throughout the history of nobility, there were instances of bankrupted titles. There had long been instances of a handful of merchants here and there making enough money to slap a huge dowry on their daughters and essentially buy their way into nobility. Society was still strict enough that the merchant himself and his wife would still be outside. But the daughter and her descendants would be integrated into that world. In the late 19th century, the industrial revolution created a new wealthy class that was outside the traditional nobility and landed gentry system and society. It was the invention of self-engendered upward mobility. Nowhere was that more true than America. The type of money amassed by Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller was basically unheard-of outside actual royal families. Nobility seeking to truly fill the coffers of their estates began marrying American heiresses with their multi-MILLION dollar dowries. ETA: Or what @AntFTW far more succinctly. LOL

No, not really. The Victorian age was strict and prudish; but even they didn't expect marriage over a declaration of courting or a kiss in public between people apparently courting. If they kissed and then continued to seek other people to court, it would be pretty appalling. But, as long as Marian and Larry resent as formally courting and exclusive, a kiss on a doorstep is not cause for a rush to the alter. The only truly potentially scandalous aspect is that Marian just broke off an engagement a day or two before. Of course, people will probably assume she broke it off specifically because of Larry which is fun fodder for Mrs. Fish but not beyond the pale. Granted, if this relationship didn't result in a proposal and wedding in the near months, that might be a bit much for Marian's reputation.

I agree with this. Marian's face always lit up (even in season 1 when it was often otherwise inert) when she saw Larry and vice versa. She even said something about always being around one another which I thought was pretty telling of her interest in Larry even if she hadn't coalesced her thoughts as to why she might want him always near her. And when he suddenly looked at her with his "I think I'm going kiss you face," she looked surprised and happy about it as if she had not really considered this as a possibility but she liked it. She looked way more receptive than when Raikes kissed her (Not that she resisted Raikes; but she seemed more curious and thrilled by the daring than pleased by Raikes himself). For a wee second I thought this referred to Enid Winterton (nee Turner).

I'm not sure how much baseball terminology was already part of the vernacular. But baseball had definitely been popular several decades. Leagues were starting in the early/mid 1800s. The National League existed at the time and I think had for around a decade+. And the teams/leagues that eventually became the American League were around too.

I'm not sure anyone is specifically rooting for the young man Gladys was waving at from her box. It's that Gladys has seemed completely uninterested in the Duke irrespective of any other potential suitors. So it's more thinking it's coldblooded for Bertha to put Gladys on the bargaining table when negotiating with the Duke for his attendance at the Met opening. Not to mention, the echoes of Consuelo Vanderbilt who was locked in her room by her mother to prevent her elopement. Her mother then threatened to kill her fiancé and ultimately feigned being deathly ill coerce her into marrying the Duke of Marlborough. Needless to say, it was not a happy marriage. She was one of the earliest and may have even be the first for whom the term was coined, but she was was definitely not the first of the trend. In fact, her godmother for whom she was named, Consuelo Yznaga, married Viscount Mandeville, who was later the Duke of Manchester. I believe it was what gave Alva Vanderbilt the inspiration and ambition for her own daughter's marriage.

This is the Extras content we need.

It appears from all indications that Ada already had moved back in with Agnes. And she wouldn't have a house in NY since she and Reverend DPS almost certainly lived in a house that was tied to his position as the rector of the parish. So unless she expressly wanted to buy a home, presumably in the same neighborhood since why move out of the monied area, living in the van Rhijn home, one in which she has lived for over 20 years (possibly over 30) other than a brief few weeks of her life while married, makes the most sense. Plus the family she will certainly want to support already lives there. So there was absolutely no reason NOT to assume they will continue to live there together as it was is already all of their home.

That was delightful. I may have seen every beat happening from episodes back, but it was still fun. Good old Reverend Rich Dead Poet was living the life of piety while secretly rich. I love that the show leaned in so hard on the tropiness of it all. Marian: But doesn't mean we won't have to sell the house, the servants won't lose their jobs, and nothing needs to change? They literally plucked the note card right off the writers' room board and put the words in Marian's (recently kissed) mouth. 😂 I thought Larian were cute and I bought it. It could have used more lead up. But from his invitation to The Met all the way to the kiss, is was evident and I enjoyed it. I admit, though, that Larry offering to go into business with Jack was even more delightful in that it was less expected. As many did, I loved Mr Borden and the housekeeper going to the opera. And Mrs. Fish remains a god damned treasure. She's here to be entertained and she will be. Things I'm looking forward to for season three (please HBO): Ada becoming Mrs. Forte, woman of means and influence (at least within her household) Russell-Trotter Clocks Larian - complete with Bertha and Agnes as a side show Things I am not looking forward to: Galdys as sacrificial Dollar Princess (though the George and Bertha fireworks should be good) Turnerton and her sourpuss face and ineffectual plots. (seriously, if you're gonna scheme, be better at it. She 0-4 via the Russell household.

Hero? Really? I totally get not lionizing the Russell's. Other than their rather endearing devotion to one another, they are pretty shallow people with horrific priorities. But Turnerton is just a wannabe Bertha. Bertha may be ruthless and officious, but ruthless, officious, and obtuse and petulant is not more root-worthy just because it's turned on someone else whose terrible. Hell, so far, she's not even a competent foil for Bertha. She's been thwarted at every turn. That something I definitely fault JF's shows for. He can't really let his favored characters fully lose or be too bad (regardless of whether they are objectively shitty people). So, despite setting up conflicts, he can't really bring himself to make either do anything particularly scorn worthy. See: Downton: Lord Grantham and Lady Mary Crawley - Matthew Crawley and his mom Belgravia: Lord & Lady Brockenhurst v. the Trenchards Gilded Age: Old Money v. New Money So he creates strawman villains easily rooted against and disposable if necessary.

@quarks Taking my reply to the book comparison thread since it departs entirely from the media topic.

I get this, absolutely. But I don't know why it couldn't be Peter and Marianne or Felix and Helena or any other names and given the same story, with the woman having been a Bridgerton cousin. They actually cannot make sense of Eloise's story as established on the show. There is absolutely no way Eloise would end up writing to Phillip. She has no connection to him and barely even met Marian beyond knowing her as the woman who tried to trap her brother into marriage. Were Marina to pass away, there is no plausible reason for Eloise to strike up a correspondence with Phillip, who to her would just be some random widower she'd barely have reason to hear about except possibly in passing from the Featheringtons (who may be obtuse enough to discuss Marian with the Bridgertons). I'm not committed to them doing this story in any case. As I mentioned in the media thread, Eloise's story, while fun with the terror twins and confrontation with her brothers, is expressly isolated from the other Bridgertons. Francesca's story is likewise removed from the other family. But it could be moved closer to London to allow involvement of other Bridgertons. Unlike Eloise, hiding her location from her family is not expressly part of her story.

This makes me sad as well and the bolded makes me sadder. They really undermined Colin's role in the family. They took much of his humor and playfulness and gave it to Benedict and then they just never bothered with his relationship with Daphne. In the books, at least in the early books through Colin's at least, the Bridgertons children were sort of born in close pairs, Anthony/Benedict, Colin/Daphne, Eloise/Francesca, Gregory/Hyacinth, and they are very close with their closest in age siblings. Since I never much cared for The Duke and I, Daphne's relationship with Colin was one of my favorite things about her. I hope at least Anthony and Kate remain involved. I like both and, as head of the family, Anthony should be a presence. Yeah, I really don't want this story AT ALL after the changes they made in S1. Though it isn't necessary to use the same characters given how they changed the relationships, so they could do the same story and just have new characters. That said, Eloise and Francesca's stories really separate them from their families (despite Eloise having one of the most fun exchanges with the brothers at one point). So I don't know that they would complement the way this series is structured anyhow. So stopping after Benedict is probably a good idea. In any event, May feels very far away. And splitting the season is just mean.

I think I'm supposed to like and respect Nan for her sacrifice. But I just feel sorry and yet a little annoyed with everyone involved... except for her. She has been a selfish brat throughout and Theo has, while occasionally being a momentary jerk, really done nothing to deserve what she's about to do. Theo asked her point blank if she loved Guy and she said no. Once again, because she thought she couldn't have Guy, she led Theo to believe she wanted to be with him. On the other hand, he really should have seen that it couldn't work at the NYE event when it was clear she wasn't as in it as he was. Also, what were we meant to think of Nan's trek to his studio? Was she committing to him? If so, did she mean any of it given the "Love finds a way" schtick as Guy was leaving her at the church? Speaking of Guy, he has also been selfish, or at least self-involved and self-justifying throughout making him only a bit sympathetic in that he's apparently tossing aside his life to help Nan's sister. But he probably at least thinks it's a good thing and necessary in its own right. So it's maybe not just a case of gallantry for Nan? Jinny, despite being often an asshole to her sister and friends, was probably the most sympathetic in that situation. At least she decided to leave to protect her baby. And she apologized to Nan and Lizzy. Lizzy remains pretty great while having almost nothing to do but react to others' and they stories and actions. But she was great with Mabel, however implausibly modern her response. And yay Honoria and Mable. They are adorbs together. If Mabel hurts her again, I will seek to avenge Honoria. But I sincerely hope Mabel gets her money and tours Europe with Honoria as her "companion." I hope Patricia moves in with Nan and Mr. St. George goes home to NY alone. Nan's bio mom can do whatever. I don't care about that story.

This is the part that bugged me the most. It is and was not possible to to create a company and make a big play without anyone hearing about it. And being new would make it more noteworthy. Doing business under a LLC or Corp obscures the individuals but not the business entity. And merely asking about the name of a company and what a co-worker thought of it would not tip a hand. All you have to say is that a friend had recently invested in it and you were worried about them... you know, the thing Oscar claimed to be doing before he showed up at the meeting and invested himself? I know people have referred to him as a gentleman banker, and I'm sure he was. But even getting the job through connections and nepotism, he'd have to blind and stupid not to know how to ask simple verification questions. I get that we are supposed to see Oscar as the classic dupe, greedy, overconfident and so deep in his own con that he couldn't see he was being conned. And, sure, as to Maude. But he planned to marry Maude if he could and so her money might become his money. And he saw her as someone who could be manipulated. I would expect him to look into the company to make sure she wasn't duped out of his her money by anyone other than him. Okay, cool. I was so confused by that exchange. The name given was unfairly similar. But that wasn't Mr. Winteron I assume it was rented. It's not easy to clear a place out with huge pieces of heavy furniture. Although, now that I think about it, I doubt very much that this show bothered to think about that and just went with what would be the most dramatic show, i.e. a totally empty office.

It's even more absurd when you realize that this whole season has taken place over 2 months. E1 was Easter Sunday. Easter 1883 was early-ish, but still March 25. The Brooklyn Bridge dedication/opening was May 24, 1883. I've kept plants alive longer than that.* *Note to reader, I have committed to only ever raising succulents in order to end my reign of terror on innocent and unsuspecting plant life.

I understand narrative shortcuts. But I asked what was different for Oscar vis-a-vis George. As @AntFTW, all that had happed was handing over a check. I suppose if it was literally meant to be an "I'm a player now too" thing... I guess.

Perhaps I'm just missing a fact or a scene or just not particularly experienced with this, but what had changed vis-a-vis Oscar and George since completing the investment? It had been days and I don't recall Oscar receiving any notices that have indicated whatever project he thought he was buying in to take advantage of was complete. So what was different on May 24, 1883, that had not been true on May 21 or 15? Oscar's "moves" hadn't actually done anything yet.

Downton Abby itself was a string of tropes. I only watched half of the first season of DA and otherwise heard about plot points from friends who stuck with it and the outline alone confirmed this. I also watched Belgravia which was more of the same. I wouldn't mind if it was done better. Tropes are tropes for a reason and general predictability is a hallmark of Soaps, which this is, and romances, which this at times emulates. The problem is in the execution. This show, from what I know DA, and Belgravia have all felt shallow, like the skeleton of a story wrapped in finery but no flesh. Witty quips and the talent of people like Maggie Smith, Hugh Bonneville, Harriet Walter, Philip Glenister, Christine Baranski, and Cynthia Nixon, et al. act more as glittering gems on that finery distracting from the absence of connective tissue between the various story beats. (Okay, that was a lot of body part based simile/metaphor - sorry, but its the most accurate way I can get that thought out of my brain.) So it's not just that we saw the death of Reverend Dead(est) Poet and Agnes's money being lost coming or the inevitability of Larian. It's that it's so very color by numbers with a pallet made exclusively of the Crayola 8 pack.