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I love Siuan in the books. But I can’t argue about the manner of her death. That was an epic speech of defiance. And Sophie Okenedo pulled it off magnificently. I am so grateful Nynaeve lost her block. I’m glad Mat went thru the arch but there’s no Daughter of the Nine Moons or (potentially the Ashendari). I want those elements. Sameul’s death was gruesome. Interesting moment: It wasn’t until Alviarin stood that Siuan was elected. So I’m thinking those who stood after were Black Ajah. Which makes Siuan’s rise to power a manipulation by the Shadow - possibly to cause harm. Even tho Siuan was a person of the light. So Moraine didn’t die. Sow that mean Rand will fail? Or her vision was wrong. Rand and Egwene taking on Lanfear at episode start was a good team up. I felt healing there. Bottom line: They are REALLY modifying the plot. But if this is ‘the end’, it was hopeful based on Siuan’s speech, Nynaeve losing her block, and Rand bringing the rain. Still, I hope we get more seasons.

I still would have preferred a stedding.

LOIAL! Nooooooooooooooooooo I could sit here and justify that his import drops down as the books go on. But I don’t care. It’s just a big NO for me. I won’t throw out the series for it. But it’s on thin ice. As it was done, it was done very nicely. I just completely object to the choice. Otherwise, I liked the battle. I am perfectly fine with Eoman Valda getting fried by the Shining Twins. And I thought Perrin led well. Alana has more lives than Deadpool. I do like her and her Warder relationship. Bain and Chiad are awesome. Loved their role this episode. Loved the Women’s circle and the role of the Tinkerers. I think they do a better job in the series showing the kinship with the Tinkers and Perrin I miss Tam. Finally, I LOVED the singing of Weep for Manetheran.

I agree this Faile is better. PLEASE skip all the jealousy crap!

Add me to the ‘that was fast’ crowd for Egwene’s dreams. And taking Moraine? New feature. Plus just crashing into others dreams is kind of rude. She certainly got an eyeful with Rand. I agree Lanfear is manipulating things. Conversely the initial ‘don’t go without us’ caution from the Wise One’s and their super vague descriptions seemed like we were going to get very little info. They also implied Egwene has already surpassed their skill. I wish they didn’t do that. Finally, they refer to her as Egwene Sedai so she’s clearly posing as a full sister. Not sure what Aviendah thinks as she was with them in Tar Valon.

Having finished EP5 (yikes! It’s moving so freaking fast!) there is a lot to love (IMO) about the adaptation. Bits: - The Windfinder’s channelling at sea is GORGEOUS!! - I love how they’ve portrayed Suian. Sophie Okenado is an Academy Award nominated actress - she’s an amazing talent. And this fully explored Moraine/Siuan relationship is so much more than I expected from Siuan. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of Siuan/Gareth in the books. But they are leveraging the talent of this actress and showing how difficult the White Tower is at the same time. I’m a fan. - Lan and Moraine drinking Oosquai! Such a clever way of giving us the depth of that relationship in a sweet scene. - I am about as uncertain of Moraine’s future as Miraine is. - I like the use of Egwene’s Dream walking to tie the Edmond 5+ together. I was not a fan of the ‘training’ - non-book readers must be confused. - Rand and Lanfear continue to sparkle. Who knew? Ultimately she’s evil and that betrayal is going to shatter Rand. Interestingly enough, I think she’s been both manipulative and transparent about her evilness. - They killed Natti!!! Ouch. That is going to weigh so heavily on Perrin I was shocked they showed Bode channelling. - Alana’s story was also good (you reactivated the bond 5 arrows ago - ha! Needed humor). Who is going to heal her? - I liked the Mistress of the Ship helping Nynaeve I would love if she got her block broke sooner rather than later. - Faile is definitely an improvement over the book IMO - Elayne dreaming of Aviendah! I’m okay with it because it ties the importance of their relationship - May and Min team up still works for me. It looks like he has a bigger story next episode. He needs his hat. - Elaida: I hiss when she walks on screen Nicely played. - I see you Verin! Clever woman. In sum, I think Justin’s is getting the essence of the characters just right And his re-spinning (pun intended!) is working for me

Full spoilers. Skip if you haven’t read the Book Series. Liked: - I think they had to simply the object of power with it being Callendor and the new sphere thing (the Sarkarnen) vs Choden Kal. - Both future and Past scenes were very wel done Dislikes: - I will be major disappointed if Mat doesn’t go thru the Doorframe I’m not sure Moraine will be going through the Doorframe. If she does, I suspect it’s only if there is a S4. On the fence: - Mieran implies there is no technology in the future because people are still harvesting with hand tools That’s a departure from what was always implied from the book version of the Age of Legends. - Egwene’s punk rock look Not a fan. Speculation: I think there is a good chance that if they were to make it to the end, it’ll only be Moraine and Rand. Rosamund Pike’s Moraine is not going to play second banana to the character Nynaeve. Moraine’s visions (IMO) showed Lanfear killing her but only after she slept with Rand. So they may be simplifying her Lanfear conflict to be a fate she avoids. There was no path they showed where she was successful nn but I think k Moraine knows one. And I don’t think she’ll bond Rand. Which leaves, ‘what to do with Lanfear?’ IMO they’ve made her very popular, although a psycho killer. At least they S3, I think we’ll keep up the ‘influence’ triangle with Rand, Moraine, and Lanfear all trying to steer the ship.

I totally agree about letting Min’s story be about interpretation of the prophecies. That’s her domain.

On Min: If they get another season and he ends up being kidnapped with Min, I can them becoming emotionally reliant on one another. I do like Min but I’d be okay if she just was left off the pairing. She helps Rand a tremendous amount in the books and she’s a great character, but a third is hard to sell. Conversely, I don’t want her with Mat if they are trying to make the Seanchan a thing in the last Battle. His vouching for Rand made a difference. And we need Mat in charge of the Army of the Light. Including the Seanchan. Now I could see there being only ONE Battle (at Shayol Ghul, outside the cave) but why have the Seanchan if you aren’t going to use them? I could see Min still being Tuon’s doomsayer. Although I agree, we are going to have to have some sign that Tuon is going to come around on Damane because it’s too awful to accept. On Morgause, She lost all my sympathy with killing her enemies I wouldn’t mind if they have Rahvin kill her off. She created enemies by killing her enemies’ daughters I think Elayne will face a challenge regardless Rahvin, I found it fascinating that it was implied he compelled an entire NATION to think that he and Morgause had been together for years I bet it didn’t take with Garrett Byrne. Speaking of Byrne: I don’t see Siuan and him getting together with her attachment to Moraine. Other Ep2&3 comments: - I like Nynaeve’s conflictedness about Liandrin Personally I feel like hissing when she is on the screen but I get the pathos they are going for. And Liandrin’s got a good story. I just don’t like her. - I like Elayne being a drinker She needs a fault - I do like this Min. She’s fun with Mat and he needs a companion unless they bring Thom back. - Thankfully we got the quarterstaff ass whipping scene. Mat is capable even without the memories. I think the point of the scene in the book was to show that. - Shohreh Aghdashloo is an outstanding choice for Elaida. Frankly, she’s likely to be better than book Elaida. - looking forward to next episode.

EP1: Full Book/Show thoughts. Spoilers thru Book 4 as this Season 3 seems to cover Books 3 & 4 at least. - Seeing Liandrin flee the tower and take stuff. Epic battle. This gave us a better story than the book IMO with regards to how this went. - Nynaeve and Lan sleeping together! I know the show aged them up a bit and sex is definitely all over the place, but ai liked the depth of the relationship. I wish we could have had more of their big kiss but her getting the ring was awesome. As was her recognition that just running away and having babies is not going to work for them. - I’m glad we saw that some of Mat’s buffoonery was his pain. I didn’t like him showing off the horn. I love when he speaks the old tongue. I saw a red doorway in Tar Valon. I hope he goes through it. - I think changing Perrin’s motivation to go home was well done. I loved all three boys together again. The comraderie and teasing about Selene! But I think they all miss home a bit. - Elayne and Aviendah! Wowser. Did not expect. No objection, BTW. It’s in keeping with the much more sexualized version of the show and will help smooth out one of the most AWKWARD elements of the entire book series. - I’m glad they focused on Egwene’s PTSD. That was well earned and explains a lot of motivation for the character. - Yay for introduction of grey men. And Moghedien’s arc is far more involved - which I like.

Good comments people! My differences and adds: I LOVED the first scene. Look at you Siuan! She deftly avoided acknowledging Liandrin spoke a lot of truths. But she was wrong,Siuan didn’t let Rand go. Lanfear interfered. Siuan had Rand shielded and watched. Siuan didn’t TELL the Tower though, so they’ll be a reckoning. But the fight! Fantastic. A bit gory for my taste but the book was gory. Leanne and Alanna are such badasses! I love Verin. She helps smooth over so much. Loved that Lan and Nynaeve get together and he gives her his ring. Agree that Egwene and Rand are holding on to the past. Bittersweet. Rand asserting his agency pleases me. He’s got some complicated feelings going on with Lanfear. Egwene’s PTSD is hard to watch but realistic. Perrin going home makes sense. He needs to out his wife’s death behind him and this will help. Mat, my poor Mat. He’s a joker to hide the pain. So glad Nynaeve supports him. Also, fun shout out to the phallic visual of the tower. Now there’s a thesis-in-waiting. Nynaeve’s failure to channel needs to get fixed. I know she’s like an overpowered Marvel Superhero but her block is so disheartening. Moraine saving Siuan! Those two are not yet done. And then making a deal with Lanfear. Dangerous. Ah Lan. Stay steadfast, gorgeous, conflicted and smart. You are intellectual and visual eye candy I appreciate. Elayne is practically perfect in every way (Mary Poppins reference) but not a ‘Mary Sue.’ I love her diplomacy skills getting exercised. She understands Rand’s burden. And she and Aviendah! Well, that was a bit unexpected but daughter-heir Elayne has a definite rebel streak alongside her mantle of responsibility. And I don’t mean because she’s with another woman. I mean she’s sowing her own version of wild oats. Lanfear is deliciously complicated. Psycho regarding Rand (I think she’s torturing Egwene in the dreams - that’s her realm after all). But she also seems Team Rand taking power. A really good start to S3

I’m watching on my IPad and turn up to full bright on the screen. If that is an option for your viewing device and you haven’t don’t it, strongly recommended. I agree the scenes can be dark but with full brightness on my iPad I felt I got everything. Also, I agree - Landsat (while psychotic) is a helluva lot better than the Spider (Moghedien).

*BIG weave of wind blows dust off thread* Hello! It’s been a minute! I scanned thru comments last year and thought I’d crank up the thread again after seeing the first 11 minutes of S3 in the Media thread. Gorgeous visuals. First, my POV: yes, I like the books better - but this series is an interpretation I appreciate. And you can’t beat the visuals Book to show forecast: 1. Woah - nice Battle of The White Tower (11 min sneak peek). We didn’t get that in the book. Very different. Although not seen - I’m wondering if Suian is stilled (accidentally) in the fight or deposed later. 2. Rhuidean - seems to focus on Moraine’s visions. Consistent with Moraine as main POV of TV show. 3. Definitely get the Battle of Edmunds Field and Perrin as leader. Glad for that. 4. Rand as Car’a’carn - definitely get but I’m not sure how much. I hope we see the Wise Ones. I hope we get Rand and Mat into Rhuidean but it sure feels they’ve dropped the Snakes and Foxes. Mat’s my favorite character in the books but he’s not getting a much development in the show. 5. I don’t know WHAT they are doing with Min. Could go anywhere. I just reread series up thru Shadow Rising so memory is fresh for S3.

This gave me the giggles. But I kind of like the blind spot in that area and instead Loki pinchesoff every error. ‘Don’t plan t it down! It rolls off!’ ‘The button is a little sticky!’ I found this episode EXTREMELY satisfying. Loki is a Big Damn Hero. I wanted that. I need that. And if you realize that Yggdrasil‘a center is at Midguard, it makes him very close to Earth 616 (our Avengers timeline). I think Loki sees all and takes delight in watching his friends (loved ones really … they became his family). And he got his Glorious Purpose. He protects the flow of Time. What I want now is for Thor to see him in this position. For Thor to know there WAS always good in him. And I believe I’ll get my wish. I think Loki is ‘Avenger Prime’ (I think that’s the comic book name. I imagine he can astral project himself about to do what needs to be done. If you consider Thor was able to focus the power of a sun through a lens and his own body to get the forge restarted in ‘Infinity War’, I think Loki can pull off this task he has set for himself. I expect him back for Kang Wars. Yes, I’m verklempt. Loki may have made a sacrifice but in the end he WON. He was not destined to lose. He has people who love him an a glorious purpose. And Tom Huddleston, Own Wilson, and the cast all deserve awards. I hope they get some attention come award season.

I think it raises the stakes for our characters because I think they will be given a choice to be part of the TVA or not. And a free will choice ti stay in the TVA is better than taken without a choice. Casey - TVA is better than jewel thief. He’ll stay OB - this is his fantasy come true. He’s all in. B-15: she was a doctor so she may choose ti stay because it’s to help mankind Mobius - he’s a Dad who wants to go home. If he stays, it’s a tremendous sacrifice. He’s Loki’s best friend, we’ll see Loki offer to sacrifice his relationship with his best friend rather than be able to see him. So Mobius might go. I think the entire season IS an ouriboris and we are supposed to start the TVA and the sacred timeline again. The wrinkle is Renslayer and Victor Timely/Kang/He Who Remains. Will Renslayer/Timely be back or will Loki be in charge. Not sure.

New to this forum (Loki, I’m on plenty of other Primetime forums). Rewatching this morning and picked up a TON of clues from just this one episodes: 1)As others have said, I believe it IS Loki popping about the timeline and likely the one to rebuild the TVA (or what comes after?). Evidence that someone (Loki maybe vs Victor) is ‘paving the way’ again may be the little bits from at least 3 timeline that seem to go missing or get spaghetti’d — the TVA book is conveniently there for Loki to pick up — The coffee press goes missing (and an ‘invisible something’ opens & shuts the door from the 1982 Oklahoma Record Store - OB’s ‘tempad’ (from 1994 or 19 month later … not sure) goes missing - Maybe the McDonald’s Slyvie had 2) ‘It IS Fiction’ - OB and ‘… not why but who…’ -Loki. These two quotes plus Loki’s realization that he can control the timeline are what drive me to think Loki is the one controlling things (now). Facts: — Loki is immune to Temporal Radiation. Sylvie isn’t (she spaghettifies) but Loki does not. Loki automatically time jumps away from ‘the end’. And he can hear the spaghetti (now there’s a phrase I would never expect to say) and touch it (scene in hanger). — I think Loki knows only HE can expand the temporal loom because he is immune to temporal radiation. 3) I think OB, Casey, and maybe Victor Timely build the actual TVA. The technology is all from Casey’s era (late 50’s … Frank Morris arrived at Alcatraz in Jan ‘60) and he was the brains of the escape. So if OB is the temporal mechanic (along with Victor), then Casey is the builder. That’s where the 1950’s vibe comes from (the phones, the line lie automat), etc…. There’s also later tech but that probably comes from OB. I think OB wrote the fictional story about 3 aliens (modeled after himself, Casey, and Victor) who control the timeline. I don’t know when they pick Victor back up again but somehow OB/Victor interact before the brain wipe. Casey as well. I think OB has the longest memory. I think Victor builds Miss Minutes. Bottom Line: S2EP5 had a ton of clues.

The whole Moraine Family subplot is both very different and I find very welcome. I think it goes a great deal in explaining the Aes Sedei culture: lleaving who you were and becoming dedicated to a family of ‘sisters’ and a mission. The insight from the family perspective is really nice IMO. As for plot implications: - The civil war in Cairhein is not vital to the overall plot. - Elayne having both the Rose and Sun throne is less important than her being out in charge of all the armies (which I assume will happen anyway). At this point, aI just want Moraine not to screw over her family anymore - she may not be able to protect them but I don’t want her to take action against them.

Loved: - Lanfear is better in the series (for me) than the books. The way she killed Liandrin’s(who I love to hate) son was brrrrrrrr. - The breaking of Egwene was so powerfully done - The show has done a fabulous job of building up the Seanchan as a threat - The hug with Mat/Rand Liked: - I’m assuming Barthanes is a good guy vs book character. I like that whole family dynamic - Rand going to Logaine for training is smart - Elayne/Nynaeve FTW Worried about: - Min’s vision of May killing Rand. It’s because ‘Min’s visions always come true’ that the poly relationship with Rand/Min/Elayne/Aviendha is marginally acceptable.’ I need that fixed - Lan bringing in the Amyrlin Hmmm - Moraine cannot go a week without sleep. She has GOT to take that stick out of her bum

I could watch Natasha O'Keeffe chew scenery all day. She’s such a master manipulator. Smart of Rand to check on Egwene. Of course it has to be a trap. That’s why Liandrin took Egwene there. I loved seeing the Mat/Rand greeting. Io need them to team up. I like the tension between Ishy and Lanfear. Surouth is wretched. Elayne and Nynaeve are a terrific team-up. And the yellow who helped? Awesome. That battle against the Seanchan was brutal. Finally, Egwene versus Renna - WOW. Brutal and effective scene. The actress playing Renna was spectacular, as was Madeleine Madden. So well done.

Addressing some precious comments: Mat WAS held in the tower post his BIG healing. And he learned he had luck when he escaped with the help of the Amirlyn’s letter (borrowed from on of the girls). I can’t tell if that story is still to come or over. Mat doesn’t have his luck so I don’t know where we are. I agree, slitting throat and coming back were for demonstration of immortality. my question: WHO is the Queen of a Cairhein that Lindsay Duncan is marrying her son to? Cairhein had a King (killed by Thom) and was the rust into civil war. I’m confused. I can see the crowd ending up at Falmec but that is only The Great Hunt. How do we fit that AND the Stone of Tear in remaining episodes???

Seems there is no limit on book plot va show so here’s my review of the changes thus far (note, including looking at the bonus content as it helps a lot). Obvious they have to skip much to progress thru within a reasonable time and money budget. So, I assume these changes are to hit certain ‘beats’ but not because they have a different visions. Rand story changes: - Sleeping with Selene - tracks with the age-up and the emotional connection - New story to show he is trying to learn and seeks Logain for that. Works for me. And showed the corruption in Cairhein. Rand is already at the plotting stage of character but I’ll accept it. Loved his look in Red Perrin story changes: - Happy so far. He’s carrying the original main plot. - They killed Uno (you bastard!) to make us terrified of the Seanchan. Well, it worked. Mat story changes: - Is he cured or not? I’m going to guess yes because that moment when Liandrin walks into his bed chamber is reminiscent of the Amyrlin doing so. - Where is his LUCK?!?! That was a key plot point for him departing the tower. I’m unhappy that hasn’t manifested. Perrin and Rand have, but not Mat. - Pairing with Min is good. Vision of him killing Rand is bad. Egwene & Nynaeve & Elayne - Most consistent with the book. Happy so far. Lan & Moraine: - I cannot tell where they are going. It feels way to early for her to be without powers and sending Lan away. - This is the story I’m most frustrated with as her losing power is about 8 books early. - I hope she catches up with Rand soon. - Lan is just ‘lost’ to me. He’s such a great character - where is his teaching of the sword to Rand? I miss that terribly. Bottom line: okay so far but I need three things pinned down quickly: 1) Mat’s luck and tie to the Horn 2) How Moraine connects back to Rand 3) Lan’s path - who is he going to team with?!!?! I worry they will undermine Mat and Lan - two favorite characters. I’m hoping that resolves soon.

Tough episode (in terms of twists and turns) Uno! What a horrible way to die. Thank you Elyas for saving Perrin. Rand in red - yes, that works. (Sorry, stepped into the shallow end of the pool for a moment). He really is playing a very dangerous game. He’s lucky Selene doesn’t seem to judge him. And screw you Logain for not helping Rand. Mat deciding not to go to Egwene! Why!!! Made me sad. And I LIKE Min. Her working for Liandrin is gross. But she seems unhappy about it so okay. Egwene & Elayne: nice team up. So glad they were there for Nynaeve. Nynaeve: what a great life, til it wasn’t. Only Nynaeve could do the impossible and come out after being in there for so long. And how do get over losing a child!? I am ready for more!

Wow. A lot to process. Rand: Shaved head DOES look good on Rand. But sleeping with Selene so soon! He’s being pretty naughty. Perrin’s plot was good. And I like that Elyas and he are connected. Those Seanchan are freaking scary! Mat & Min were fun. Min is all kinds of adorable. NOT happy with that vision of Mat stabbing Rand. Egwene & Elayne were perfect. I love that Elayne took the punishment to protect her source. Shows character. Liandrin - a touch of sympathy from me with her trying to heal what is undoubtedly her own son (which brings home the agelessness of the Aes Sedei Nynaeve - more courage than sense sometimes. But I think she found her calling (healing). She is NOT ready. Moraine & Lan: I’m Team Lan. Moraine, you’re riding my nerves with this attitude. The exposition was excellent but her mad insistence on going alone is pissing me off. *sigh*. Lan deserves better.

Quick review: Yay Verin! I love every scene at the Moraine/Lan connection. I don’t like Moraine being powerless. I hope that changes. Egwene & Nynaeve are perfect. I know Alanna is hedonistic but the whole lot of Aes Sedei seem like a collection of people who just go their own way. Where is the Amyrlin? There feels like a lack of discipline. Perrin bring the heart. I’m feeling his pain. Mat as a prisoner. I hiss every time Liandrin walks in. Rand! Hanging a Beltine lamp That use of Beltine was spot on. The Forsaken were perfect. I didn’t realize until I used XRay that they were in Tel’Aran’Rhiod. Of course they were, but I didn’t think of it at the time. Also Ishamael is f*cking scary. I worried that he was going to feed the little girl to the Trolloc. And the way the Fades moved was really fabulous. Th k goodness for Verin!