cereality

I think it was said clearly in People that they were taking a 3 week honeymoon in an undisclosed location. Would that really cost JB that much? I'm not thinking they went to Hawaii or any other expensive destination. I can see a mountain cabin somewhere in the bible Belt. They are celebrities in certain circles, so I don't think it would be hard for JB to find someone who knows someone who has a cabin in NC or Tn who is willing to rent it out and bc they are SOOO excited to have fundie royalty using their home, they're willing to give the new couple 3 weeks for the price of 1 or 1.5. JB can swing that. Once you have a cabin you don't need that much more -- it has a kitchen and you can cook most/all your meals, which just means a few hundred in groceries. JB probably paid Ben for some odd jobs right before the wedding and said "take my daughter somewhere nice on your honeymoon," allowing Ben to save up a few hundred and it isn't inconceivable that Ben's parents or grandparents may have given him a few hundred in cash as a wedding present. All of that would cover food and gas and it's not like there's much to do in those places besides spend insane amounts of time in the bedroom.

Even if Ben made a deal with the devil so he could be on JB's property, get closer with Jessa and force an engagement, as a married man, he can back out of that deal IF he isn't taking their money. I realize he isn't well educated but he is a HS grad. It's November and there's tons of reporting on how every retailer in the country is hiring thousands of people. He's a young, strong guy -- why not get in with FedEx/UPS right now as a package handler, those facilities operate 24-7 so take as many hours as they'll give you, work your a$$ off in hopes that you get hired permanently in Jan, which actually does happen a lot with both of those companies. That salary will afford them at least an apartment of their own and he already has a car. That's how you start to make it on your own without taking from your father in law. I mean I know he and his parents got into this salivating at the fact that JB could get Ben into the big leagues -- maybe even a DC job like Josh. JB has already proven that he will give what he wants to who he wants and his hand cannot be forced. Josh got a DC job. Jill got a mansion. Ben got -- odd jobs that involve cleaning toilets. I don't think he will suddenly go from fixing windows and cleaning toilets to being handed his own car dealership or being hooked up with an interview in DC, so why not give it up, find your own job and start putting one step in front of the other.

When did they all suddenly get on the internet? I feel like they were so opposed to outside influences and then suddenly the ones who have something going on in life -- DC or courting or weddings -- jumped on Twitter, Instagram etc. Was Jill the first one on bc Derick "allowed" it and then the house of cards fell and others got on? Yeah she is on social media too much for a honeymoon, but I imagine the honeymoon was disrupted with constant phone calls from home when she posted the kissing pics and the "controversy" re consummation came out. Plus as gross as it sounds -- I bet she and Ben have been on each other many times a day for days in a row; gotta take a break if you want your woman to be able to walk esp. once they found out they were heading home; girlfriend needs to be able to walk into the home church without looking like she's in pain or else can you imagine the whispering and speculation about exactly what they had done, when, and how many times?! Gross as these people are, I can see JB asking his "little baby daughter" if she's gotten to "enjoy" Ben more than once.

The difference here though is that Jessa sort of took part in starting some controversy by posting that pic, when she could just have enjoyed time with Ben for 3 weeks and kept it off social media altogether or just posted "clean" pics like Jill/Derick did with some scenery. When Josh's whole "sin in the camp" thing happened years ago, it didn't start with Josh posting something on social media; nor was the family so famous then so People and US Weekly weren't picking up every action like they are now. The Duggars depend on those paychecks and it's possible that JB freaked out and called them home, which is quite easy to do if you're paying for said hotel/lodge etc. -- you can just cut off the payment so they won't have a room the next night. Sorry but this is what happens when a man "takes" from his wife's parents after marriage, he is beholden to them. If JB doesn't like something, it ain't happening no matter what headship Ben may or may not want. I hope this is a wake up call to Ben and Jessa that even if they stay in the shed for now, they must use that time to create their own life. I don't mean create a family -- probably better if they don't right away though it's possible that's done already -- but use this time to finish online classes or whatever and get your own job that affords you your own home. While they are young and uneducated, I really think they can do it; it's not like I think Ben has to go to med school -- hell he could pick up a job like Chad Paine working in some metal shop and that would be enough to afford your own 2 bedroom house, your own small vacations etc. without having to rely on JB and constantly wondering whether he is happy with you or not.

But the damage control is what thought? "This is how married people behave -- looks here's proof?" It just makes them look stupid and childish. You may be right the honeymoon was cut short due to that pic as well as the general controversy re consummation. Why would you say you have a 3 week honeymoon if you knew you'd be back in 1 week? They are minor celebrities and the chances of being seen are too great to do that. If the honeymoon was cut short, that sucks. To go from a nice hotel (lodge; motel 6 whatever) where you had the privacy to lie in bed all day to being back in the TTH shed and having to eat meals with 18 other people looking at you thinking "they're having sex" really has to suck. That pic on Wed gave the impression that they hadn't left the bed since Sat. I guess that's over since JB will create "work" for Ben and Jessa will at least have to be up, even if she's doing nothing.

It’s beyond annoying that these people think they are the only virgins on the planet. Look around -- you live in the Bible belt where there are lots of religious people who wait until they are married. As do many LDS, Muslims, Orthodox Jews etc. The difference is no one discusses their sex life, so you don’t know. In normal families, a girl would be mortified if her dad knew or thought about whether her anatomy down there had been changed a bit -- whether there was a ring on the finger or not. Honestly just this week a long time friend came to me looking very nervous and shy and asked for a dr (GYN) recommendation; I happily gave it to her and asked if everything was ok (health wise) and she very shyly shared that she needs to see someone but bc she hasn’t been “active,” she’s definitely had a hard time with GYNs who maybe don’t believe her or are dismissive. This is a woman in her 30s who is a great friend, well educated, professional and religious but not overtly -- who you wouldn’t think was a virgin; guess what she is and it really has nothing to do with anyone else. The fact that the Duggars really think they are SO special for waiting is beyond ridiculous.

WTF is wrong with these people!? Ok -- maybe Jessa and Ben shouldn't have posted that photo, but at the end of the day they are horny 22 and 18 yr olds "enjoying" each other for the first time, and in this day and age there are lots of people their age who think nothing is private and if it isn't on social media, it didn't happen. Fine. But for her almost 50 yr old parents to be copying her pose and her kiss just reeks for a desperation to stay relevant. Get over it -- you had your youth, now it's her time and she will do things you do not like -- get over it. I don't care if it's damage control or somehow TLC related or whatever, if a PR person even suggested doing something like this -- most normal parents would be embarrassed and say no, even if they later had a quiet talk with their married daughter about how it's better to be discrete and better to be a lady in the streets even if you are a freak in the bed. Why wouldn't Jessa just roll her eyes and ignore that pic, why did she post it?? As for what the blogger has said re them consummating at the wedding that's apparently now gotten picked up in other media, ok it was uncalled for and there's no way to post "we consummated in room 510 of the Marriott, get a load of what our sheets looked like after,' how do the kissing pics -- hers or mom/dad or Josh/Anna do anything to change what's being said? I don't even see what the damage control is there. If anything they say "we're married, we can do what we want." Ok -- well someone who wants to believe it will say, you were married at the church, maybe you did what you wanted there too. Where was the kissing pic with Josh and Anna taken -- doesn't it look like the Duggar home? Does that mean the honeymoon is over -- I thought they'd have 3 wks of seclusion?

As much as I don't like to defend the Duggars, I don't even get that allegation. Seriously -- they think that Ben and Jessa just went for a quickie in the closet in the probably 10 min they had to themselves? I imagine they walked of church, maybe had a few min to themselves, then maybe took another few min to get themselves fixed up to either walk out to do hours of pictures (if they didn't do them first) or to go straight to the parking lot for their ice cream. The only time they would have had would have been right after they walked out and before they had to re-join the families to move onto whatever was next in the agenda. Say they even had 15 min -- that isn't enough time to get out of that kind of dress unless you tear it, which you can't before the reception. I realize it doesn't take more than 1-2 min to do the deed esp for a first timer, but how realistic is it that Ben whipped it out and was able to get it under the miles of fabric of her dress, and without having a visual find the right area and um -- penetrate someone who isn't used to that?? This isn't a couple whose gone at it for 5 yrs that can get it done quick. I'm sure there was awkward fumbling the first time, which was probably hard enough in a hotel room, lying down, while "looking" at what goes where and being able to tell Ben what hurts. I call BS on whoever thinks they got it done so efficiently right there in the church. Plus Jessa (and I think fundie girls generally) gossip and whisper about sex, so they have some ideas about the horrifying parts of it. I'm kind of sure that Jessa has heard that the first time can hurt for a woman and she can bleed. I don't see her being so dumb as attempting something painful minutes before she needs to be smiling for pictures. Nor do I see her being so dumb as to attempt something that could cause her to bleed all over her white dress for all the guests to see. Maybe the part about "Jinger opened the closet door, had a horrified look on her face, and closed it" is true. But let's be honest, Jinger is the master of exaggerated faces, rolling eyes etc. I could imagine her opening the door and seeing them still lip locked or maybe even French kissing with maybe a hand touching a breast or a butt and her getting that "OMG" look on her face and shutting the door -- esp if she had been expecting to see nothing or seeing a chaste little kiss. Then you have some fundie hanger-oner who sees Jinger's face and manufactures the whole story that she could ONLY be making that face bc she has just seeing Ben "penetrate" Jessa.

I feel like the older girls have all lost weight, can't say that about the rest of the family. I feel like Jana was in WW at some point, and her and Joy's faces definitely look less full than they used to. Actually same with Jill and Jessa; Jinger looks the same to me. But look at the guys -- Josh and JD certainly have put on a lot of weight and have that pasty 40 yr old man look in their 20s. Joseph and Josiah don't have that look yet and maybe they won't given that Joseph works out and Josiah is at the fake military training which I imagine involves a good deal of running and probably not the greatest food. While Ben is a dolt, he's hot; if I were JD, Joseph and Josiah, I'd get into a routine of working out with him once a day. I'm not surprised that it's only the girls who've lost weight -- it's all about countenance and being marriage-able after all. We've definitely seen shots of them eating things like pizza, where the boys pile 2-3 piles of pizza on their plate, while the girls filled their plates with salad and then took maybe 1/2 or 1 slice of pizza. I imagine JB and Michelle would be all over a girl that they considered "big boned" as I'm guessing petite is considered more feminine in the fundie world.

I know everyone thinks Derick is handsome, but I can't get over those bags under his eyes. He had them in his own wedding pics too and then everyone said -- oh it's his wedding, he's stressed/tired, his mom is sick etc. What's the excuse now? He's a wedding guest for a quick fundie celebration -- he could have slept in all morning. And given that he has a corporate job, how is it possible that he does not own one tailored suit? The jacket on this one appears to be hanging as well and who wears a 3 piece suit with no tie to a wedding? Even here in NYC guys do the suit open collar if they're headed out on a date, not to their sister in law's wedding.

Any idea if the Duggars make their daughters watch births live after a certain age? I have a feeling they may do that -- after all a girl's reason for existence is to marry and pump out as many blessings as possible so they want their daughters to know what's coming. If they "required" that during Michelle's child bearing years, I consider it downright mean. To the poster above who said that most families have all their kids at every birth, I'm not sure that's true; after all the average American family has about 2 kids and the older kid is like 4 yrs old when the younger comes along. Sure the older may visit mom at the hospital if she has some pain control and isn't screaming, but I'm not sure that many let kids be in the room to watch mom push. I mean for a daughter like Jill who was always into births, babies etc., I'm sure she was excited to be in the delivery room. But I have a recollection of Jana at one of the births completely wincing and looking like she needed to sit down or leave -- but she probably knew that would earn her time in the prayer closet for being so disrespectful of a miracle. I know the Bates had a couple daughters at one of their first hospital births and Kelly had an epidural so she looked to be doing ok pain-wise, even then when it came time to push -- Erin went and stood behind a curtained off section in the room so she would not have to watch. Somehow I could see the Duggars saying "no choice -- all eyes better be focused on mom's vag."

While the kissing pic just posted is a bit risqué for a family that is SO into modesty, would her parents really be upset? I mean she's married, she can do whatever she wants. Maybe her headship wants PDA so dammit, he must get PDA. JB and Michelle go around demonstrating kissing and humping on golf courses, so how is this so different? As for presents, Ben's household seems "traditional" -- i.e. the women slave away for the men. That means if Ben buys gifts for his family (and he may not really -- he's 19 and has not really had income beyond an allowance from his parents probably to buy his sisters something for Christmas), I bet he hands all the gifts to mom (except for mom's) and then they magically appear under the tree Christmas morning looking perfect. As for mom's gift, I bet his sisters dote all over him and would gladly wrap that one. His mom even said "I haven't trained him on gift wrapping yet."

If the timing described above is right -- Jill told the family she was pregnant in late July and then Jessa got engaged in early or mid August -- 2 or 3 weeks is long enough that morning sickness might have kicked in or at least fatigue. I could see not wanting to travel around for a whole day feeling that way. Or maybe she felt ok but Derick didn't want her to go because he thought it would be too much. Or maybe Derick didn't want to waste a day off on this knowing that he has a pregnant wife and a sick mom and his own media obligations and would need that day off for something else. Plus Jill is pretty media savvy. If she hadn't announced the story to People yet, she may have felt uncomfortable being around the Seewalds all day. They come across as such famewhores that there's a huge chance that the mom or one of the sisters would have noticed Jill looking a little sick or tired, speculated pregnancy, and announced it to the world -- thus cutting off Jill's paycheck from People which probably has first rights to such a story. I think her absence would be even more noted if they cooked up something special for her to do; that makes sense for Josh because he's across the country, but for Jill who lives down the road, that would just seem odd. I think it's better to leave it vague. The average viewer doesn't pay as much attention to the show or its timelines as we do -- they'd just think (i) she's still delivering babies and isn't available that day because someone went into labor; or (ii) she's off on her honeymoon or something.

Michelle came across so dumb saying "not them" as soon as everyone joined hands and then looking at JB as if he has some power to tell his grown daughter to drop her soon to be fiancé's hand. Do they not realize that you can make these rules and if they get broken, ok maybe you can "punish" or lecture your child in private BUT the child is old enough that you can't publicly call them out as they are breaking the rule?? Bc like Jessa they may do the cost benefit analysis and think "whatever I'm not letting go of his hand, what are going to do about it, make me pray 5 more min tonight?" Then said "child" can sit there calmly doing whatever she was doing knowing that there's no way you can stop her. Did they really think that Ben was going to get a boner from holding Jessa's hand -- as he was praying while also holding his MOTHER's hand? I'm thinking it's biologically impossible to be aroused while touching your girlfriend if you are talking to God and holding your mom's hand at the same time.

New instagram photo of Jessa kissing Ben. Doesn't look like they publicly kiss the way that Derick and Jill do -- looks a lot steamier to me, esp the way she's holding the back of his head. Good for them though 3 weeks of this means she's very likely coming back pregnant.

What was the timeline? Didn't Jessa and Ben announce their engagement like days before Jill's wedding (or was it something else -- I know there was some overlap of Jill and Jessa milestones)? Couldn't they have been busy with wedding prep? Or maybe Derick didn't want to be even an hour away with his mom being so sick and Jill not wanting to go because Derick didn't want to go? I don't see Ben leaving Jill out on purpose. I mean he called Josh and Josh would have been the easy one to leave out since he's out of sight. Besides in these kinds of families, I don't feel like you include or un-include someone -- the herd just goes along. So if Jill had been around when he was talking to the sisters about what was going down, she would have de facto been included -- at least been on the train and in the parking lot after, even if she didn't have a special role like Jinger. The fact that Jill wasn't there suggests that she wasn't included for that reason -- not because Ben senses Jill vs. Jessa tension. It would be too wild and crazy but if I was Jessa I would have said -- we're getting married at that church. Sorry mama and daddy, I don't care if you need to cut the list from 1000 to 200, that's what we're doing. But these kids only get so many FU moments, and I know Jessa is saving hers for the big stuff -- like not kissing at the altar; holding her sweetie's hand during a prayer; and whatever else she may be encouraging Ben to do even if it goes against her parents wishes -- like continuing school or something.

In that case Josh was the boy -- he didn't need a chaperone, and it was up to the Kellers to "protect" their daughter. They decided that their daughter being in a crowded restaurant at lunch hour with the guy who would be her husband in 3 months time was probably fine and were not worried about the chance of sex happening right in that booth. OTOH the Duggars are SO protective that they didn't trust their Godly daughter alone with the man who will be her husband in 3 months IN A CHURCH. Seriously even non religious people control themselves in church. What did they think Jessa would do if she was alone with Ben in a church?! I guess the same could be said re Jill and Derick on their wedding day -- spent the entire day at church with a chaperone trailing behind . . . .

I thought the proposal was nice and that church is beautiful; honestly he could just have done the proposal there and been done with it -- as opposed to the whole scavenger hunt up front. I liked that only Jinger was there and even then she sat in the last pew -- allowing them to talk without listening -- and not running down the aisle when she saw a frontal hug happening. She had even said earlier that she couldn't imagine saying during the proposal -- uh you're not supposed to do that; so they knew they could hug and it would be fun. Hell they could have and should have kissed and Jinger wouldn't have reported them. It would be much different if Jill had been around, as she'd go running off to mama and daddy for every little slight. Why didn't they spend a few min in that chapel? It's beautiful, she loves it, and it would have been nice to snuggle up in a pew for 10 min before meeting and greeting both families outside. Is it because they thought the families would come barging in if they took too long in there? Honestly I'm rooting for these two to be a success. Granted this is not what anyone wants for their daughter (or their son) in 2014, but I can see Ben realizing success the way that JB has or even the way his father has bc he has Jessa by his side. I think Jessa is savvy and holds everything close to the vest, but I can see her pushing Ben -- whether it's to stay in school and take insurance exams while working in the fundie circus; or whether it's down the road -- pushing him to invest in property or a business the way her parents did or his parents did w the prefab business. As much as the man is the headship, he's young and kind of quieter -- I can see this turning into a "woman behind the man" situation, which I think wouldn't be terrible for them.

I really hope that they didn't leave mid ceremony to kiss and then come back for the rest bc then you've got 1000 fundies going "oooh they're kissing back there" as if they are a bunch of 7th graders; much easier if you just kiss whenever you leave the ceremony and before you head to the parking lot for the reception. And why did there need to be a kiss demonstration - they have seen kissing before from both parents, they just (supposedly) haven't done it themselves. My bet is that they did exchange a few smooches during the whole courtship, and even if they didn't -- I'm willing to bet that at least Ben has kissed someone else before. Fundie or not, no way a guy who looks like that makes it through his preteen and teen years without at least 1 kiss. Ben is a bigger guy than Derick, so I feel like he had a wider range of suit options and colors that would look good on him. In retrospect Derick should have gone with a darker suit or at least a better fitted one, as his light gray/beige really showed off how skinny, non-muscular and pale looking he is. It's gross how much the Duggars have emphasized sex. I actually find myself thinking -- 24 hrs of marriage, I bet they've gone at it a few times by now; after all Ben is only 19 and doesn't need that much time before going again.

Oh I get what Mike Seewald is saying -- marriage will make a man out of Ben because he will have to provide, esp when there's a kid on the way in 9 months. Plus they will have to rely on each other to make decisions (hopefully -- barring too much duggar interference) and while those decisions may be wrong at times, they will both grow up through those good and bad decisions and learn how to support each other. I just think it's weird to say it, esp to People magazine in this day in age. The average reader of People will think "if he's not a man yet, why is he getting married" or "is it his wife's job to raise him, why didn't you finish raising him before you encouraged him to take a wife." I think their views of the world work for them, it's just that when you put it out into mainstream media, you will endure a certain amount of criticism from a population that has very different societal views.

You don't have to do anything. Instead of the minister saying "Ben you may now kiss your bride," he just skips to "it's my pleasure to introduce Mr. and Mrs. Benjamin Seewald" and the couple just turns and holds hands and gets ready to walk out or they hug and then get ready to walk. I have seen this done before and it really isn't that big of a deal. I'm just hoping that in typical Duggar fashion they didn't focus on the lack of a kiss and announce "they are saving their first kiss for marriage and it will take place right after this ceremony." i get what Mike Seewald is saying that getting married makes you grow up and become a man because you can't just focus on yourself, you have to focus on a wife and family, but he really shouldn't be announcing this as the reason his son got married. It isn't Jessa's job to finish raising your son. If he needed to become a man and his parents couldn't provide him that skillset -- he should've joined the Marines, they've been turning 18 yr olds into men for centuries.

Good for Jessa for doing things HER way. We all know she has a mind of her own. We know Ben really doesn't and just listens to her, and I really don't think the Seewalds would have minded Jessa and Ben's choices because they seem more invested in this couple becoming "one" as Michael and Guinn did rather than in listening to their parents. So I'm glad she went with a beige/cream dress. I actually like his gray shirt too -- you never see that; though I don't love the red tie, but at least it's different and theirs. And I bet not kissing was also her idea -- not because she's more Godly but because she doesn't want to be embarrassed in front of 1000 people as well as the magazines if they missed or if the kiss was sloppy or at an awkward angle or whatever; this way they could both be pretty relaxed through the ceremony without thinking "uh we have to kiss in 90 seconds, OMG I hope it goes ok." Interesting that he has a 24 yr old best friend who doesn't appear to be a relative. Looking at the best friend's Facebook, he's wearing a t-shirt in one pic with greek letters on it -- like for a frat; I wonder if he is in or went to college? I think Ben needs as many influences as possible that are not Duggar men, so that he can carve out his own life and not remain on JB's payroll forever; having friends with some education may only encourage him to continue with online classes etc. And good for them for the 3 week honeymoon. It's good that they are going to get a lot of time alone even if it's in some random condo or cabin someplace; I feel like it'll be a good time for them to sort out what they really want life-wise before heading back to the compound. Though the negative of a 3 week honeymoon and no birth control is that there's a high probability that they come back pregnant, which is just about the last thing they need having no careers/home of their own etc.

I'm surprised Chad and Erin want their miscarriage/personal issues featured on TV esp in contrast to Zach and Whitney having baby Bradley right away and probably a baby announcement from Alyssa in the not too distant future. Though it kind of gives me hope that those two are really living and believing in "whatever God gives us" and in the meantime using their time not to be miserable about their lack of a baby or to be wondering what people are saying about them behind their backs but just enjoying each other the way normal young couples do. From Chad's blog, it seems like they have vacationed, gone hiking, and they seem to hang out with friends; none of these things are earth shattering, but sometimes you don't see fundie couples doing these things just because it's about having one kid after the next. I'm not sure how old they are, but with Erin just finishing college I'm guessing she can't be more than early 20s. If there's no true health problem but they're just having trouble conceiving/maintaining a pregnancy, they still have YEARS to try. They can honestly take a few years to keep trying while living their lives and maybe God blesses them with one or two the natural way. If not, then they can look into alternatives but they're not at an age where there's any particular rush for that esp if they don't mind a small family.

I think Dan is probably a witty guy with his friends and family. Sometimes sarcasm can come across rude esp when it comes from someone whose personality you don't know. Add to that that he clearly doesn't dig the Duggars and seemed really stressed about his mom and was probably also thinking about his dad at such a big occasion for his family -- he handled it and held it together as best he could. Was the open house at the Duggar home only for the Duggar side? Were Derick and Jill there or was this the "after party" and they were off getting busy by then? In any event, I imagine Dan was invited since he was a groomsmen and likely the only member of his family who was available. I sincerely hope he bailed or stopped by for 30 min and then headed out with the other groomsmen to the closest bar where they could grab a few burgers and beers (if they drink) and talk about whatever it is that 20-something yr old males talk about -- probably whatever girls at the wedding were cute; can you believe Derick is freaking married -- I am so not ready; sports; how much it'll suck to have to go back to work Monday etc. It would be nice if JD and Joseph could have gone along to partake in this kind of regular "guy" conversation to see what it's like to hang out with non-fundie men who have regular lives and jobs, but alas I'm sure they were at the compound listening to JB talk about how both of them need to find Godly women and start multiplying soon.

Any maybe it's just me, but things like ice cream for 1000-3000 guests make me nervous especially when they aren't being handled by actual caterers, since they go bad pretty fast but it isn't always obvious. I mean in the first go round when the ice cream melted, I think the "wedding planner," was looking to see if she could just get it to re-freeze. You're really not ever supposed to do that, and certainly not for food that you will be feeding to a 1000 guests. I mean if you lose power in your home during a storm, I think one of the ways you tell whether things in freezer need to be discarded is if the ice cream or ice is now liquid. Then when she realized it couldn't re-freeze and had it scooped again -- fine. However as a guest, when it's coming to you melted, you have to wonder how long it's been out of the freezer and how long it's been out in the hot sun. I was kind of thinking that for the cake/sheet cakes as well. I feel like at that type of wedding, unless I grabbed a piece of cake right as it was being walked out of the building, I'd just stick with a cookie or a rice krispy treat rather than wondering how long ice cream or buttercream frosting can be outside in the hot Arkansas sun.