cereality

I agree that JB and Michelle that marriage was a "cure" to something that needed counseling and therapy - but an actual MD or PhD, not some churchgoer. BUT let's not act like lots of those marriages for the Duggar clan are bc the dude wants to get laid. Ben and Jessa? He was horny as hell and though marriage at 18 with no education/career was a good idea. Joy and Austin? I see zero spark - but conveniently he's old enough to marry, she's a sister of his many Duggar friends and she'll give him a family. This isn't like the Bates clan where most (all?) marriages have evolved bc there was a spark/friendship/care for the other.

I know Josh is an adult and he made the choices he did; and Anna made the choice to not divorce him. But in my mind, blame falls squarely on JB and Michelle for raising their kids the way they did. WTF is wrong with them?? I realize that in conservative faiths (including mainstream ones - not just fundy-ism), it is 100% about making sure your kids follow your faith and live life the way they were raised bc if they don't then you have failed as parents and they will be on the road to hell. Reality is though in the modern era most people - even of conservative faiths - realize all you can do is show the kids the faith, indoctrinate them via church etc., give them lots of "guidance" as they're growing up -- and then when it comes down to it, give them freedom to live their own lives. If you are strong enough about your faith, going down this path should NOT worry you bc you will have the faith that you've raised your kids to be such believers bc they will live the way you want, not bc of you but bc they actually believe. Or maybe they won't live 100% like you, but they'll still follow the main tenants - i.e. fundie lite - which may not be optimal but is still better than going off the tracks altogether. In JB and Michelle's world, they beat their kids over the head with faith; don't allow them to interact with society even casually lest they be corrupted or develop some friendships with people that aren't fundie and start getting some ideas that [gasp] they want an education or jobs or the ability to leave the home without a buddy to make sure they don't start having sex in the middle of the supermarket. Josh never wanted this life. He saw the hard times financially, saw kid after kid coming into an already stretched thin family, and then clearly had teen boy issues that he could not address in normal teen boy ways. I imagine in that family getting an erection means hours of lecturing and prayer closet and asking for forgiveness - if not physical punishment. Unlike a normal 13 or 15 yr old, there is to be NO noticing of a cute girl at the supermarket or at school. So they repress all of that for 18 yrs. Then he's horny, so they "encourage" him to take a fundy wife who also wants a kid yearly - which he doesn't want bc he's not into it yet it would make him a terrible husband and sinner to talk family planning. Honestly he'd be better off if he were raised the way the Bates are raising their kids now. PLENTY of religion (which we don't see on TV), but they are all encouraged to go to a local college for at least 1-2 semesters; then they can go longer if they want or get jobs or both. School and work allow them to get out of their fundy homes and make friends, meet peers and go through the normal process of noticing guys/girls they like. Then they meet a conservative Christian - who has similar values big picture, have a wholesome courtship and wedding night, and then go on to live fundie lite if they so chose w/o mom and dad in their face. Some of them [gasp] even have TVs, some choose to move away with their spouses and not see the family 5 times/week.

Am I crazy or were most of the women skiing in snow pants with some kind of short skirt type of thing over top of the pants?? I swear I saw something on Kelly, Erin etc. - and it didn't just look like the bottom of the coat hanging down. Yes the show is boring -- probably ok for UP, but I don't imagine they would've lasted long on TLC or they would have had a LOT more of these planned outings like skiing. Obviously UP is providing these activities to have something to shoot - but they are so "normal" during the activities that it gets boring; I almost like the shows surrounding their daily lives better.

I agree ALL the Bates kids are a lot more marriable -- thus they are marrying rapidly. They all have their own personalities -- some are girly girls, some aren't; some like traditional things like sewing and cooking, others have to be gifted cookbooks pre marriage; some are loud and dramatic, others are reserved and would rather not be the center of attention. They all go to college for at least 1-2 semesters so it seems like they develop their own friendships - and thus know HOW to make friends and talk to peers beyond just the "our friends with 20 kids that we met once at a homeschool conference just dropped by." It helps in finding a mate if you have some personality and something to say about yourself besides that you have a servant's heart and love the Lord. I also think Gil and Kelly have pounded into their kids' heads that before they marry -- the husband (son or son in law) MUST be able to provide. They don't yet have 1 married son or son in law who is loafing around with a "ministry." All have full time jobs. It's also why the courtships with Bobby and Brandon were longer - by fundie standards - bc both were in school, and I suspect the Bates wanted to hold off on marriage until the husband to be graduated and got a job. Evan looked fairly young to me as well, so I wouldn't be surprised that Carlin has a long-ish get to know you/courtship if Evan is in school too. I tend to think this is why Lawson hasn't married/courted yet. I think he -- and his parents -- realize in their heart of hearts that supporting a wife and family as a "musician" who gets called to do shows here and there or makes a few hundred playing at amusement parks will be rough. I think if/when he finds a girl he likes or decides he wants to find a girl -- he will either go back to tree work or transition himself into a behind the scenes job or an office job in Nashville. As for Nathan -- I think he fell HARD for Ashley and really did love her. I thought he'd either start courting 2 min after it ended (so he didn't have to feel the loss of that relationship) or he'd wait a long while until he was ready to put himself out there again -- I think it may be latter since there doesn't seem to be a girl on the scene for him.

Watched 15 minutes of tonight's ski episode. It was boring. But man the Bates are killing the Duggars in their courtship competition. Carlin had a friend on her trip - Evan - and she said they are getting to know each other and aren't in an official courtship; they were acting very couplish with Tori and Bobby and I bet it materializes into a courtship. And then Trace had a friend there too - Campbell Roberts (I think) - he didn't say how he knew her, but in fundie fashion she was very complimentary to him and told him how great he was at snowboarding.

Maybe Jer wants a 6 months hiatus from the family bc he doesn't want to deal with JB or maybe be he wants Jing to be able to function without a gaggle of siblings bc he doesn't intend to live his life with monthly sibling visits. But reality is that the only way I will view this hiatus as for Jing's benefit is if she emerges from it (i) not pregnant/not talking about how she's sooooo concerned that they've been married for 6 months and haven't been blessed and she's peeing on sticks 24-7; and (ii) having Jer encourage her to do something, anything to acclimate to the real world -- a photography class; a job as a photographers' assistant or even at a Sears photo studio; working part time at a coffee shop; taking a community college class -- anything, really. But I can pretty much bet this won't happen. They married in Nov. and thus will re-integrate with the family around May which puts it right around Joy's wedding. I can bet they'll be talking about how much they are waiting for a blessing - if they aren't expecting already. Reality is - Jer needs Jing to be away from the family so she can learn to take directions (subtly) from him as headship. He needs to train her on how he wants his laundry done, his home kept, and how he likes his Italian meals cooked; he knows how to cook, but I highly doubt he'll be doing it often once Jing is trained up -- which will take a while since he had to start off showing her that you can buy a chunk of mozzarella and grate it . . . .

So I only saw the hotel episode, not the one before it. I can see Jeb/Jud getting into a lighter even when they knew they shouldn't and starting something. But here's one of the many problems with these mega families - no one is really watching the kids. I think Gil and Kelly are 1000% better than the Duggars bc they view the kids as their responsibility - not their siblings - but even then, there are times where they slip into the mode of - one of their 100 siblings can watch them, no big deal. If Kelly was out of town and Gil was heading out for a tree job, someone should have been designated the babysitter for 5 and 6 yr old kids! It isn't enough that Lawson is home sleeping and Trace, Carlin, Tori etc. are in the house. It's a big house - it only takes a second for kindergartners to come up with a dumb idea and execute it. Someone should be their babysitter and while I realize the 20+ yr old siblings don't want to be playing with the 5 yr olds all the time -- they do need to be in the same room as them, knowing what those two are up to, and re directing them when they start to do stupid things. If no sibling wants to take that on bc they're sleeping in or whatever - pay one of them to babysit; ask Erin, Zach, or Whit to babysit; or hire an actual babysitter.

Really? I didn't think she was wrong there. I live up north and most of us don't even open our doors if someone rings the bell if we don't know who it is/aren't expecting them. And this is in nice suburbs in NY, NJ etc. So I think there's a huge chance that you go back to your childhood home in NJ to reminisce and the current owner doesn't let you in bc anyone can use that excuse just to gain entry. Here though - obviously it wasn't as spontaneous as they wanted viewers to believe. I'm sure UP contacted the owners and showed up to the house weeks in advance to get them to sign the appropriate releases and add the lighting, camera, and wiring that you need to have to film a 5 min segment with 30+ people in a contained place like a house. In this instance even a northern homeowner would have allowed it - you would have met with production, signed contracts, and goggled the $hit out of UP and Bringing up Bates to know it was a plot but a real TV show.

Most of us would show those expressions of love to our girl/boyfriend not their father - but hey whatever works. I bet JB did NOT want it known that there was an application for fear of scaring off the already scarce suitors, but Derick got a little salty on one of the tell all specials and blabbed and then the interviewer started asking what was on the application etc.

Well if Bin has regrets he has his horny self and his own parents to thank for those. What parents in 2013 would be ok with their jobless, degree-less son marrying? They couldn't stop him from seeking her out, but once he came home with the Duggar ground rules that this better result in marriage in 6 months plus a 50 pg application, most parents would put their foot down and try to get the son to see the light that this girl may be great but this family isn't for him. They'd tell their son he has a lot to offer and lots to accomplish still and if this is the one, she and her fam will bend the rules and wait another yr or 3. Instead creepy Pa Seewald let Bin move into the shed with no bathroom facilities or HVAC and let him clean JB's toilets to get the girl, all while lamenting that society just doesn't get it anymore and people wait until their [gasp] 30s to marry which is unholy.

I feel like with each of these engagements - I and many here - have tried to find that some way this marriage would be better for the Duggar girls than the isolated TTC life. With Derick and Jer it was - college educated men; with friends; who would show their wives a whole different life full of Indian/Greek/Chinese food, cable news, TV shows, going out with friends etc. We can see how it worked out with Derick. We'll see how it goes with Jer - I think it's a 20-80 shot that her life is better (meaning 20% chance that she experiences a fun normal 20-something life). With Bin - there were no positives in my mind of marrying a jobless 19 yr old who needs to clean your father's toilets for work. Not so sure about Austin. I put him more in the Bin category. Unlike Bin the positive is that he DOES have marketable skills - construction; bulldozer business; pilots license; house flipper. So he will be able to earn a living. But for Joy I feel like she's going from daddy's fundie home to Austin's fundie home. Unlike 2 of her sisters there is ZERO chance this guy exposes her to Broadway, sushi, or TV or books or even interesting/diverse friends - since a large number of his friends are Duggar brothers and I imagine the rest are other church people that Joy already knows. It'll be the same surface level God talk between them as they try to make conversation in their empty home post-marriage. It may even be worse than Bin bc Bin was HOT for Jessa. I think they weren't trying to make tons of conversations when they were alone in the house pre-kids bc they were getting it on as much as possible. I don't necessarily see Joy and Austin's life like that. Sure she'll do her wifely duties, but I feel like both of them will see it as a duty - to try to get pregnant.

I have to imagine the - no visitors for 6 months - is coming from Jer not Jinger. Maybe that's what Jer wants. Maybe Jer said it to Jinger jokingly and Jinger relayed it to her fam thinking - oh it's his place and this is what my headship wants so no guests. I can't 100% believe Jinger wants this. Sure -- I'm sure she was dreaming of sexy time with Jer and dreaming of what it'd be like to live in a quiet home without 20 people walking around - so yeah she wants the quiet and privacy. BUT I can't imagine she wasn't nervous about leaving the only home and the only "friends" she's ever known. This isn't a woman who has gone away to college or even summer camp alone; she is NOT used to making friends AT ALL. Anytime she has gone somewhere like fundie camp or a mission or even to visit Jer's family -- she went with a few siblings in tow. These really are the ONLY people she talks to - so I can't imagine she doesn't want to see them at all for 6 months. I have a feeling that in a month or two she would not mind at all if one of her sisters or even one of her brothers (like Jer) came and stayed for a few weeks - bc she'll be a bit lonely all day when Jeremy is at work. See this is why I suspect Jeremy is a bit controlling - he may either directly or jokingly say how he wants things to be and Jinger jumps at his command so as not to piss off the headship on day one. In any event though, I thought Bin's "whatever" reaction was ridiculous. I'm sorry Bin -- if someone doesn't want you to visit for any reason or for no reason at all -- it's not for you to say "whatever" and just show up. Sorry that you're bored out of your mind with your marriage, 2 kids, and living under your father in law's thumb - not to mention your bitchy wife -- any 21 yr old would be. But that still isn't Jer and Jinger's problem - you can't be using their place/life as entertainment/distraction for your own life. If you want to go someplace -- earn some money and take a vacation.

Yeah - I was thinking - you had your newlywed time and chose to make a baby ASAP - do they not get that time without visitors?? I've always thought there was some interest btwn Bin and Jinger. The way they interact is too casual and familiar for this sect where brothers and sisters basically aren't supposed to speak past age 10. Like when they were headed to Laredo early on and Bin was asking her if she was nervous, if she got any sleep etc. I don't think it's anything inappropriate, I just think Bin and Jing are a better personality fit than he is w bitchy Jessa. Of course in the normal world, you'd hang out in groups and then start dating the person you clicked with. But in this cult you have to make a decision based on looks/assumptions of personality w/o ever speaking to the girl and ask her daddy you officially want to get to know her. I'm thinking if halfway thru that you went back and said, actually I like her sister better, you'd be kicked to the curb ASAP.

Am I the only one who isn't that excited about Jing and Jer? I'm glad they're having fun - first time getting action; getting to vacation without 25 other people; etc. But when Jill got with Derick and he took her to Broadway, introduced her to Nepali food and hummus - we said the same - a college man with life experience was going to change her world. Now look at them - fundie missionaries. I see the same for Jing and Jer. Sure the honeymoon is fun and he's excited to introduce her to the world. But we already saw a scene of them grocery shopping where he explained you buy a block of cheese and grate it, as she stood there going, what, really?? He'll grow tired of being Jinger's tutor and of being married to someone with the intellect of a 12 yr old. And with Jer when he gets tired of it -- I suspect it'll come out as meanness and control towards Jing as he makes her feel like she's too stupid to function without him. Don't know why but that's the vibe I get.

Her parents? She seemed like a REALLY happy kid when she got to run around barefoot playing kickball with her brothers. But I'm sure somewhere around age 10 her parents said- ENOUGH, you are a GIRL, it isn't LADYLIKE, and who will marry you if you become athletic and work with your hands?? So then she was forced to be with the older girls, wear skirts, act like she was soooo excited for each of them who was courting and popping out babies, and act like that's what she wanted too bc that's how she was supposed to act. Though I do remember a recent (within 1-2 yrs - maybe when Jill was courting) interview where she did a TH with Grandma Duggar and said she wasn't sure she'd get married bc it's too much work. I was STUNNED and left wondering if she'd be hitting the prayer closet when Ma and Pa Duggar saw such an act of defiance. Interesting Grandma Duggar did not seem the least bit bothered or annoyed; didn't do any of the - oh God will put it in your heart, when the right one comes all you'll want is marriage and babies; though she was probably happy to see a granddaughter have an opinion. Having your life pre-determined for you - by age 10 (or at birth really due to gender) has a way of killing your spunk. She'll go through the motions of what she's supposed to do, but you know she doesn't want it. I know she comes across dumb, but she would've done so much better if they had allowed public school. Not saying she'd be class valedictorian - but I see her as the kind of girl who'd be a solidly average student but would keep her grades high enough to play a sport every season, would be super tight with her teammates and coaches. And then would gradate HS and get a job that was also team oriented. The Duggars are so sexist - if the brothers are doing house flips with Austin, Joy would be the perfect girl who could be involved in deciding on design; working to make sure the bathtubs etc. that would be best for the house fit structurally and with the budget; staging etc. I think she'd get into something where she felt a part of the team for a real project where she could get her hands dirty too.

Who is Sinner Twin? The one who looks like Austin with the short blonde hair (the one eating at the counter when Austin came over to ask for JB); or the other curly haired one - who I personally don't find handsome AT ALL though maybe everyone else does?

So Austin has some marketable abilities? He's a mechanic, construction guy/house flipper, runs a bulldozer businesses, and has a pilot's license? Wow. Fundie overachiever. No wonder he gets along with JD. So his dad has said he should (or must?) flip 5 houses before getting married? I assume it's so he gets a business going/saves some money before taking a wife. Not a horrible plan - as much as I hate these people. Apparently 4 flips already done -- fingers crossed they were real sales to someone that isn't JB.

How old is Austin? Joy's age? Bc John David said he was closest with Austin - so is he older? On the car ride to/from the camp and courtship proposal -- the vibe I was getting the whole time was -- Austin needs a wife and is good friends with the Duggar bros, so why not just pick the sister most like her brothers. Similarly I felt like Joy still feels like a tomboy who'd like to hang with her brothers, so of course she's interested in a guy who is most like her bros. That was the most awkward courtship proposal yet - right up there with Bin and the coffee cup in the office. I mean there was ZERO emotion on either side. He didn't even move in to sit close or put his arm around her or anything; and of course now we know he's also not purposing to hold hands and is full fundie bc he ASKS to give his fiancé side hugs that are pretty much bro hugs. Good luck Joy and Austin -- I don't see that much fun in their future. Contrast it to Jinger and Jer's honeymoon -- they actually had some enjoyment on their faces, esp Jer -- which is to be expected bc he isn't a Duggar so he has some personality. And what's with JB's looks of panic/fear when these guys ask to court (and Austin next season asking to get engaged). He gives the -- oh no -- I'm so torn, whatever will I do look; he even said, let us think about it. Asked ONE question about why he likes Joy (she fits the bill and can run a household and manage kids - essentially - very romantic) and then JB goes - okay, you're good to go . . . . Uh thorough interrogation there Pops.

Chad has at least 3 brothers who are incredibly thin -- 2 of them look young -- like pre-teens/young teens; though one is older - the preacher who is married. I also find Tabitha to be really skinny also. I don't imagine it's the food insecurity that lots of large fundie families face - bc dad is a doctor so I don't think they're hurting for money in the same way as other families that have been featured as Duggar "friends." So it might just be the body type/genetics at play.

OMG. I agree -- it has ALWAYS driven me nuts how Chad is teary about the slightest little thing. Like how proud he is of his wife for graduating or recording a son or teaching a piano lesson. Like how hurt he was watching her hurt re miscarriages (I'm not saying a husband wouldn't be hurt - but he'd hold it in when talking to a 3rd person about it months after the fact). For goodness sake - he was teary as hell before asking her to court - bc she had been dreaming of this for so long, he didn't want to mess it up or say the wrong thing. Same thing before the wedding - SO worried about making it perfect for her that he was crying. OMG - man up! As for why he has time for furniture making - bc he's in a fundie marriage? He only works 40 hrs a week - and seems to be on some kind of rotating schedule bc he randomly gets weekdays off according to their IG. And while Erin will brag on IG about how he is a 50-50 partner and deserves a parade bc he stopped at the store and then helped clean the house when she was sick, or will put a kid to bed -- reality is, I don't think he's doing these things daily. We've seen more the one shot of him on the show coming home from work and a full dinner is on the table or Erin is still cooking so he goes out to the back porch and starts working on his furniture until Erin calls him in for dinner. I'm fairly sure she takes care of all the post dinner clean up, cooking, grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning etc. so he has plenty of time outside of his 40 hr work week to do whatever he pleases - i.e. furniture making. And on the off nights where he plays with kids or the dogs, he gets a parade thrown for him. It's good to be a fundie man.

I think a formal relationship is fine when that's how the people are for real. Like Michaela and Brandon -- I think they are both reserved, quiet people. So of course their relationship with each other is also reserved and quiet. But Erin wasn't like that. She was loud - not as loud as Tori and Carlin - but no where near as reserved as Michael. A day or 2 before the wedding she had a crying hissy fit about how much she'd miss her sisters and when Gil said, you'll be down the road and can come over and stay overnight anytime you want -- and she continued the teary drama of how it wouldn't be the same; which Gil then made fun of (nicely) and re-enacted for all to see. And she wasn't upset at the slightest - it's who she is/was with her family. And with Chad there is a sweet and polite, yes sir, no sir type of quality with her husband; very Stepford-ish. Maybe it's just bc 100% deference to the headship and adoring looks are expected in a fundie marriage -- but frankly she didn't grow up seeing that bc Kelly isn't like that with Gil; something about their interaction makes me feel like as lovey-dovey as Chad acts, he "demands" a certain deference and "respect" from her.

They never said but I got the sense that it is a prospective husband questionnaire, but a prospective wife one. Bc it asks about money/finances and spiritual views -- and they view the man as being the headship so his religious views better be right to be able to guide whichever dumb Duggar daughter he is interested in. Though to be fair, maybe they make a prospective wife submit a gynecologist report? I mean perish the thought - but what if there was a decreasing ovarian reserve or PCOS that made it hard to conceive or some other condition making it dangerous to have more than 1-2 pregnancies? Seriously though - I think it's the guys' form. I don't put it past JB to find a wife for one of the sons to mix up the seasons. Frankly can't he DEMAND that new son in law Jeremy take one of his sons down to Laredo, have him loaf around the church, and then Jeremy MUST find for him a woman in his congregation who'll start a courtship? I mean JB could make this deal with Jeremy in exchange for a house in Arkansas - so Jer can then bring Jinger back to Arkansas without it costing him any money.

So I had heard rumblings here re Tabitha Paine but had no clue so I looked it up. OMG!! She is SO desperate to get married and her family is so desperate to marry her off, that she is going to marry someone 15 YEARS older who admitted that he raped someone?? And he was like 25-26 when he raped her, not a 14 yr old who didn't know better. And why does it matter whether he was convicted or not, on the registry or not -- he put his d!ck into someone who did not want it there. How is that "forgivable"? How the heck did he find Tabitha? What I don't get about these fundie families (so many things . . . ) the women are helpless and brainless and need the men in their lives to protect them. So the oh so wise Daddy Dr. Paine and perfect big bro Chad are ok with this?? And I'm sure they've had a perfectly chaste and polite courtship with a 12 yr old following them for supervision, but has Tabitha been "allowed" to consider sex? Sorry but -- what if he likes it rough or hit it up the back side -- will she just be forced to deal? So I guess it's confirmed, the Paines are on the list of nutcase fundie families. I know everyone LOVES Chad -- I mean he's perfect looking, employed, will do housework, and can do anything from carpentry to plumbing with a smile on his face. Yet something about him just never seemed right to me. Don't know what. I guess I've just noticed how "formal" his and Erin's relationship is, and that strikes me as odd. They've been married for 3+ yrs, he gets it on with her, he has watched her spread her legs and give birth -- and yet it seems like they still only feel they can be sugary sweet to each other as if they just met last month. There were interviews where producers were asking him about his plans for his furniture business and he was saying the usual BS about the Lord's will and how Erin makes it possible -- and she literally took a slight tone with him and said -- just be honest, you're so modest. That's when it occurred to me that is literally the first time we have EVER seen her take any kind of tone or act the slightest bit like a normal 25 yr old with him. And this is a woman who comes from a LOUD family and who is VERY casual and dramatic around her sisters, dad etc. -- she is not the reserved type like Michaela. Do they not interact that way bc Chad won't stand for it or she dare not piss off the prince? Huge contrast to Zach and Whit -- who act NORMAL. There have been SO many times where Whit has called him out and he has NO trouble giving it back to her. She had no problem saying he called her crying nightly from the police academy - as he laughed and said - hey I was trying to look tough . . . . There's been times where he jokingly bragged that he's the best at all tasks or that when he was on stage with Lawson his wife couldn't even hear Lawson sing bc she was so taken by HER MAN -- as Whit laughed and told him -- get real . . . you know, like a normal 20-something who is tight with her husband and not scared of him. I think there's something different with Chad and the Paine family . . . .

I know JD isn't being paid to fly anyone around. But if he ever wanted to take a wife and stand on his own 2 feet, he has a marketable skill bc he has a pilot's license; he could gainfully be employed by a charter flight company or FedEx/UPS or even for a small airport in an office job. And besides the pilot thing - he could run the towing company full time or switch to construction. Way better off than the rest of these Duggar boys and fundie boys like Bin who have no marketable skills. Obviously the family is the albatross around his neck and I think most fundie fathers don't want to marry their daughters into that family bc they have no way of knowing if there's some ongoing abuse or something. I do wish he'd take a page from Zach's playbook -- or maybe even rely on Zach a bit to advise him on what to do -- and meet a girl the "normal" way. A girl who sees him daily bc he comes in for lunch or coffee and chats with her is MUCH more likely to view him as a dorky but nice guy who'd make a decent husband. She's much more likely to see it as marrying HIM, not marrying into the Duggar family -- bc she wouldn't participate in the whole chaperoned courtship with 2 sets of parents and questionnaires. And he's likely to be able to talk to her honestly about how he's not his brother and despises him. And they could come to a compromise to live a life that's conservative Christian without being entirely isolated from the world . . . . Did Jin and Jer kiss before the wedding? I found it interesting that they were able to kiss on the walk back down the aisle with no hesitation -- not common for 2 people who've never kissed before -- they'd be likely to miss, the guy would need to hold her head etc. Though I wonder if it's "easier" for them bc Jer has likely kissed his fair share of women. So while Jinger doesn't know what to do -- he can move in for a kiss with quick aim bc it isn't his first time.

Part of me wonders if JD had a failed a courtship or more likely -- approached someone being interested to court and she or her father said no -- and that has made him gun shy. Only reason I think that is bc JD was supposedly very supportive and helpful to Zach Bates when his first courtship failed -- Kelly has said it and I believe JD was a groomsmen for Zach's wedding to Whitney. It's possible he was just good friend, but it's not like he lives next door and was serving as a day to day distraction to Zach; maybe he was helpful bc he had experience in that area. It would have been 5-6 yrs ago -- bc Zach started courting Whitney in 2013, so presumably his first courtship was in 2011 or 2012; JD would have been 22-ish then and it's possible that at 20-21, he was trying to court someone and got rejected. That would've been the age that the Duggars were aiming at for their sons to court pre-scandal -- like Josh who was 19-20 at marriage. He's a good guy. I'm not surprised that she hasn't but I wish Jessa would put her match making skills to use for JD like she did for Jinger. I'm sure though that she thinks her brother is a loser bc he isn't a "hottie" like her husband. But unlike her husband he will be able to provide for a wife whether thru construction, house flips, the towing company, with his pilots license or all of the above. And he seems like a low key guy who won't be all that authoritarian with a wife -- I think at this point he'll just be happy to have a wife who loves him and a few kids -- and not necessarily require her to birth dozens of kids for him . . . .