cereality

When this first went down and he had been arrested but the initial hearing hadn't happened, I remembered coming on here and saying while I would "prefer" it be financial or tax fraud, I had a feeling it wasn't and that it was a sex crime because Josh and bc there's just something off about him -- since he was like a preteen. Those types of issues don't just go away because you got a "talking to" by some cop friend or went to religious camp or shaved your head. But now IDK what to make of this unsubstantiated rumor re another Duggar being involved. Unless there were MORE gross things happening in their home sexually that they've hidden, I just don't have that same feeling about any of the other brothers as I do Josh. I just can't see them into kiddie porn or sleeping with prostitutes or whatever. So now I feel like if anyone else is implicated it's either a more technical reason (i.e. it was their laptop; they knew/should have known this was occurring but ignored it) OR more likely financial fraud -- a sweep of the electronics revealed financial/tax fraud. And with that I don't see the other brothers being smart enough to pull that off -- if something like that is happening, it's JB and IDK if he'd even share the knowledge with his other sons; I feel like it would be JB + Josh with Josh being the implicated party who doesn't really get it and JB running a scam.

Is there a transcript of the bond hearing?

Visitation only has to be surpervised by Anna. Haven’t seen the courts order so I’m unclear whether the kids could visit w a 3rd party like Jana without Anna. My gut is that the Probation Officer would need to approve that. He can have adult visitors certainly his wife so yes she can visit him to “satisfy” him all she wants.

Yeah you graduate with the JD, it's not like college where majors or tracks matter. People create tracks for themselves by taking a lot of 2L and 3L classes in whatever they want to do + making sure their internships reflect that they are on a certain track. If you're taking public interest type of classes but all of your internships are at private law firms doing corporate work, guess what your public interest track in law schools doesn't matter and you're only going to get hired for corporate work. In Derick's case, ALL of his internships are public interest type of things -- county prosecutor; county court; federal public defender; Arkansas Atty General's Office etc. so he's signaling that's where he wants to be, rather than the private law firm route or working for a multinational corporation doing business issues.

So Jill posted graduation pictures. Looks like it was her, the boys, Cathy, Derick's brother and his wife and kids in attendance AND a Duggar brother -- it looks like James -- the one who used to chaperone for Jill & Derick a lot. Hmm I wonder why . . . does he want to go to law school? Does he want to break away from JB and the construction/car lot/towing/rental house type of work and he sees Derick's line of work/degrees as an option?? He's 19 but AFAIK he lives at the TTH -- I'm surprised he was allowed to attend . . . . Litigator here -- public interest law can mean literally anything -- it can be working for some non profit or hate group supporting some cause he believes in, but it can also be working for the government (fed/state/local). It literally means serving the public interest/doing the public's work (not just clients who are paying you like in private practice). Given that lots/all of his law school internships were government (prosecutors; public defenders; state attorney general; circuit court etc), I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he's aiming for -- like getting into a new lawyers "honors" program that some gov't agencies have that allow them to hire grads right out of law school. It won't make him rich but it'll be a comfortable and stable life for him and Jill if he were to do that as the benefits are really good, those are the rare jobs that still have pensions etc.

Moving from the Jill thread -- @LadyWhistleup said -- "I've seen Joy make solo trips to Carlin's. My GUESS is that Joy likes Carlin because Carlin is a way Joy can get away from the extremely rigid, no-fun life at home. At Carlin's Joy can probably enjoy a latte at Starbucks, watch some movies, MAYBE even sip some wine. Joy said something after one trip to visit Carlin: that it was so nice just to get away. I thought that was a weird comment for someone who claims that she and her husband are living the blissfully purposeful, Jesus-filled life: why are you so eager to get away for a weekend?" I think this is totally accurate. We've seen most of the trips be Joy visiting Carlin & Evan or C&E visiting Joy and mostly hanging out with Joy as I assume Austin is at work or whatever. I imagine Joy & Carlin got to know each other thru the mandatory childhood fellowshipping and have probably deepened their friendship now via social media etc. Like I don't recall them having a huge presence at each other's weddings etc so IDK how much it's true that they were childhood besties. I wouldn't be surprised if it is JOY that was reaching to Carlin more at first after marriage to deepen the friendship and well Carlin's gonna be all over that because she loves being popular. While they are very different with Joy being more of a hiking, biking, getting herself dirty laying tile floor in a flip house vs. Carlin is more getting her hair done, mani/pedi, trying to attain the trappings of an upper middle class suburban mom with the best iphones, newest roomba etc., ultimately I imagine Joy just finds Carlin fun. As loud and annoying at C&E are, they act like normal albeit obnoxious 23 and 26 year olds which likely makes Joy feel young and fun too. They're constantly going on trips and on said trips will drive by some amusement park and they just HAVE to stop and take a ride; or they crave ice cream at 10 pm so off they go on an ice cream run. I have a feeling Joy and Austin's house doesn't have that type of spontaneity and fun. Austin seems like he'd be more like -- uh we're not stopping at some road side attraction, we'll lose 30 min on this road trip; or be like you want to run out to get us ice cream at 10 pm -- you're a mother, you'll just leave your kids with me and go out as if you have no responsibilities, just have whatever ice cream is in the freezer or get some at the grocery store tomorrow?? Whereas at Carlin's -- Joy is likely in on the Sbux or ice cream runs, we've seen her cheering along as C&E turn on some dumb song and sing or dance with each other or their kid -- for all we know she also dances along just not with the camera on so as not to hear from Austin when she gets home.

Yes the Joy and Carlin obsession has grown exponentially. IDK what that's about. I mean nice to have a friend but they each have 8000 sisters?! And they seem totally different to me -- with Carlin being much more of a wannabe suburban mom with the nice phones and roomba vaccums and whatever else and Joy being the rural hiking and laying floor in her husband's house flip type. They make a big deal about being childhood besties but I don't recall any huge friendship in the teenage years beyond fellowshipping with the whole families. And yet now Carlin & Evan fly to Joy & Austin like once every 2 mos and vice versa. So Jill still didn't post for Mothers Day nor did Jessa; and Joy posted congratulating her own self on Mother's Day. Jana ended up doing a midnight post -- guess she felt guilted into doing that living in her parents' home; so Jing was the only one who posted not in the 11th hr though unlike prior years it wasn't some huge narrative it was just a wedding pic w/ her mom and Jana similarly posted just an old pic of Michelle and the kids.

Why are Jill and Joy on the outs? I’ve only recently caught up with Jill’s life - when it became open knowledge that she goes to therapy, hasn’t been in her parents’ home in a few years. So I’m unclear - are they just distancing themselves from JB & Michelle or from all of Jill’s siblings? Or do her siblings just not want to be with her anymore bc she’s in therapy, drinks etc - and either they believe or JB&M are convincing them she’s a bad influence? I know they aren’t full estranged bc she posted a pic of her and Derick at Justin’s wedding, saying they came just for the day.

So 10:15 on Mother’s Day and no IG tribute to Michelle from Jill - nor Jana, Joy, or Jessa. Jinger did post on IG story. Good for them seriously for ignoring that b—— like she ignored them growing up. I mean maybe they post something in the next 1.5 hrs but I’m thinking this is a calculated decision.

You don’t find out right away. It still takes at least 2 months in most states as its essays that need to be graded not just multiple choice. The swearing in differs by state. In smaller states where they basically just swear in their state U law grads from that yr that passed the bar, you can be sworn in within weeks of passing. In states like NY where huge # of grads move in yearly for new jobs, swearing in can often be 6-9 mos after learning you passed - you start working in the meantime though just with a title that denotes that you have not yet been admitted by the state.

So can anyone catch me up on Jill and Derick. I know she’s distanced from her parents; hasn’t been to the TTH in a few years; wears pants, drinks and goes to therapy; has said fewer kids is better bc you want to pay attention to your kids. What about the kids? All I remember is back on the show, Iz seemed kind of scared of his parents, Derick seemed kind of critical of him even as a 1-2 yr old who didn’t listen. Are they raising their kids more normally? Have they said whether they home school vs sending them to Christian or public school?

I was glad to see that Derick graduates tomorrow. It brings some happiness to Jill's life and home right now that she needs. And thing is this is likely the first graduation she has ever attended with caps and gowns and speeches etc; I don't think anyone in her family even when to an unaccredited Christian college like the Bates family does so she's never even been to a small graduation let alone a big state U. It's a new fun experience for her in the midst of an awful week. Hopefully it'll just be her and the boys and Derick's mom and maybe brother/his wife in attendance; or if the brother can't come, Derick's stepdad could come and in any event Derick isn't REQUIRED to use every ticket he gets; it's fine to just have his immediate family + mom and then give the 2 spare tickets to a classmate who has more guests than tickets.

I mean I don’t see him getting a job at Target or Sbux or even a family owned restaurant bc all do background checks. They see CP case pending — they move on and hire one of the 10,000 other ppl out of work without such issues. Any work will have to come thru JB or some “sweet friends” from church like the Rebers who don’t care/don’t believe what he’s done, they are loyal to his godly family. But yeah if one of those jobs happens to be say at a candy store or school, the PO nixes that option as there are kids around - it runs afoul of the court order which doesn’t allow him near minors. Daddy or one of the sweet friends need to come up with a construction or car related job. What about Joe’s FIL - isn’t he a pastor that does some kind of car/auto body work? I mean he may believe in helping a sinner repent while making sure he has zero access to his babies or his grandkids (Joe’s kids).

Yes. I think POs generally want to see their defendants do well both before and after prison. But they’ve seen it all and aren’t going to be fooled by dumb Duggar excuses like oh I didn’t know there was wifi at that rental house when I picked up Jed’s phone, I just wanted to see the weather blah blah. Or oh no this isn’t my phone, Anna didn’t get me this, Jason carries 2 phones blah blah.

I think the latitude on work tends to be wide because they want the defendant doing productive things not just plotting how to score more CP. I think working at dads rental properties is fine but JB will be required to be there or have another trusted person there who won’t provide him a cell phone etc. Last thing they need is JB letting him sit alone in a rental house all day only to find later oops the wifi was working in that house and oh oops Anna got him a phone. The brothers would be “reliable” ppl to have working with him as they wouldn’t provide him phone access bc they prob hate him and know he’ll throw them under the bus any chance he gets. Yet it’s likely they’re too pissed to agree to be his handlers 5 days/wk at work.

Yes normally he could go to work, Church, drs and lawyer meetings alone. It wouldn’t be the Rebers obligation to accompany him. Theory is his Probation Officer approved it so it’s ok for him to be there — ie PO believes there’s no computer he can use at church or his work or drs office. Now what if he stops at FedEx Office on the way and looks at something on those public computers? That’s between him and the Probation Officer. If ever there was a time for a construction job in the hot Arkansas summer sun, this is it. Construction notoriously is very loose on background checks (esp for white English speakers) and doesn’t care what you did as long as you won’t murder their other workers and are willing to sweat it out to lay tile or pour driveway concrete. He’d have to be on a job site at 7 am (that makes this unlikely for the fam that sleeps until noon), would come home exhausted at 3 pm, Mrs R could feed him dinner at 6 pm and he’d crash by 8 out of exhaustion. No time to wonder about CP or whatever.

Generally no. The house arrest is for him not them. They are allowed to come and go. He is not to leave the house but if he were to leave while they were out, that’s between him and his Probation Officer. They also are to make sure they’re not leaving him with things he’s not allowed — ie internet. If their only internet is phones, they could take those. For ppl with WiFi you can turn it off and make sure he doesn’t have the password. If they have something like dial in, I assume you disable that though IDK how. This is normally how it works. I haven’t seen a court order here (does anyone know if one was issued and available to see) so the order may say something different.

Mrs. R doesn't want to be alone with Josh. I think honestly they're about to fall into a pattern where she "encourages" Anna to come over daily with the kids. So Anna shows up daily at 9-10 am or whenever they wake up and stays until 5 pm until Mr. R comes home. Anna likely feels this is best for the kids bc it's just like being home as a family -- except they're in someone else's home. And with that comfort a routine will develop where Anna will put kids down for naps; make lunch; take the kids out to play etc. -- she won't be sitting and staring at Josh watching his interactions with any kid like a hawk. Out of that comfort could stem opportunities for Josh to defy the order and be alone with a kid or two -- in the same house but while Anna is otherwise occupied. The only way that this doesn't happen is if JOSH is so tired of "family life" and is so looking forward to being away from the kids that HE tells Anna, no you can't come every day; he could spin it as it's too much work for Mrs. R to have guests in the home all day every day (ha like he cares), let's have you come on Fridays only or whatever.

I read somewhere (here? Reddit?) that Josh turned himself in and Anna went with him -- is that what is being said? Because damn there's a woman that'll stand by her man. He's out of prison today (maybe already for all we know). Do we predict the J&A reunion happens today at Mrs. R's house? Do we predict she brings all 6 kids? Or do we think it'll be JB going with her and then stepping aside with Josh to give him a "talking to" -- because we know how effective those are -- and maybe Michelle hugging her baby boy for all he's been through?

But how? We have so many different professions here -- wonder if there's anyone who has worked in this space and can speak to this. IDK how old Josh's kids are exactly -- 11 down to in utero I guess. But how exactly do you ask a kid - did daddy ever do x - AND trust that that kid is telling you the truth and not just saying no because mommy/grandpa coached him OR not just saying yes because he's mad that daddy didn't buy him ice cream last week or whatever!? Like the litigator in me needs concrete examples of Q&A to understand this - lol.

Feds wouldn't overrule CPS/any child services agency involved here. -Speaking as a fed. lawyer. Feds don't have the "expertise" to do that and they worry (both US Attys Office and judges) that if they were to dismiss a CPS recommendation, a child WOULD be endangered and maybe CPS is seeing something that I think is NBD but from a child safety perspective is a huge red flag of danger.

Loosely speaking the CPS reports will be going to the prosecutors who'll be scrutinizing them. If there's something in those suggesting that Josh should not be around his kids/is a danger to them, the prosecutors go back to court for amendment of release conditions saying -- when you made this decision, you didn't know x. If CPS makes a clear recommendation that Josh shouldn't be around the kids, that goes to the court with prosecutors not doing anything to sidestep -- they'll 100% agree -- and then I can't see a federal judge overriding CPS as they don't have the "expertise" in child safety to do that. What I don't know bc law is my area, not CPS -- how does CPS interview little kids? Because don't you think JB, Anna, and Michelle and on the kids' case 24-7 right about Daddy is SOOOO perfect, don't you want daddy to come home, if ANYONE ever asks you about daddy you tell him how great he is and how great of a time you have with him, you don't tell him XYZ. Also does CPS interview kids away from their families? Like most little kids would NOT want to be alone with a strange adult -- they'd prefer mom there; and in many (most?) cases mom is fine with questions being asked and fine with however the kids answer because she too wants to know if dad is up to something with the kids. Here though Anna in the room 100% means the kids will speak the party line.

Which brothers used to work at the car lot around 2019? Anyone know? I feel like JD has always done other things like towing or pilot lessons but what about the rest?

We don’t know that they don’t have the evidence on the preceding - esp proving that it was no one but Josh. This was a bond hearing. It isn’t the governments burden to prove the case at the bond hearing nor do they want to show all their cards. I’d be surprised if this goes to trial. I think we see a plea to get it done quietly. It’s already going to be a light sentence, a plea makes it even a bit lighter - at least that’s how it typically worked in my fed court days.

Yep we have to take her word as does the court bc what other guarantees are there. But knowing what we know re wives in this cult, I’ll believe it when I see it. If she has the sense that her husband and JB 100% want Josh not in prison, she’ll pretend not to see certain things. I mean who else will tell - Anna? Lol no.