cereality

FWIW 90% of the time she seems to feed those kids outdoors, where she can just hose down the table when they're down. On the rare days that they eat indoors, they're always on stools at the kitchen bar, not in the dining room. She likes to keep a pristine home -- 4 kids under age 6 and food don't mix with white upholstery. Seems like they are still buying furniture and they've said that they have to wait until things are in the budget, but their kitchen while small does have a nook off to the side. Put a kitchen table in there that's cheap and wipeable and feed your kids there and use it as the kids table for holiday meals. Then like most homes the formal dining room is for holidays when the kids are old enough not to be dropping food all over the chairs.

I think that's a huge part of it. People who are SO religious ultimately come back to -- God will provide. You KNOW if Whit wanted Z to quit the police force and he expressed any hesitation to her or Gil or said yeah but you know the health insurance is really good or the 401k has a crazy 7% match or whatever, you KNOW Gil would be like -- don't you trust God. Why do you need the BEST insurance or to save SO much for retirement as a mere 32 year old?? Go pray because you seem to have lost your faith . . . . For people like Gil and lots of others who feel that way, it doesn't matter HOW God provides, it's just that he does. Like many regular Americans would be like nope don't want to be uninsured or on Medicaid bc it doesn't give me much choice (or any choice) re specialists, what if we need one. People like this -- oh please a dr. is a dr., it doesn't matter. If you need an ultrasound for a gender reveal (bc why else would you need one), you'll go to one of them strip malls, you don't need them fancy OBGYNs at U. Tenn to tell you boy or girl; Dr. Vick is great, he's no different than than fancy Harvard Med educated dr. etc.

So last night Jadon's right lung collapsed and he's now on a vent and has a chest tube. Man I hope that kid is doing ok. Wonder what's causing all this?? Could Whit having had covid early in the pregnancy somehow have affected him -- though it was so early on that IDK if a kid even has lungs developed at that point. Was he born early? He came out at a decent weight - 7+ lbs. Doing better today per Z&W's Insta though I assume that's bc he's on a vent and chest tube. But hey the drs. and nurses are stopping to pray with Z&W so that's great . . . I know I know it's Tenn but 🙄

I agree they certainly aren't dirt poor. They aren't like the fundies we've seen over the years who clearly cannot feed their kids enough. But I do think they're paycheck to paycheck and things like insurance which are big costs in the US just aren't easy to purchase. I mean Erin/Chad live in a 2 room rental with 4 KIDS and some kids sleeping in roll out beds; you don't do that if your husband's contracting business and your retail shop are bringing in $$$$. John & Alyssa say money is tight and that they have a hard time budgeting and sticking to any type of budget. Evan openly says money is tight esp with a kid now, he's always looking for cheap deals/cheap fast food etc. Yet they all seem to have the nicest of stuff -- from iPhones to robot vacuums to Carlin today posting from some salon w/ some dye job that couldn't be that cheap (and it wasn't Katie nor Josie's old salon). I think their hawking of products on Insta gets them some free products esp for the kids. I think YouTube channels - which I'm surprised Z&W don't have one - generally pay about $3 to $5 per 1000 views. In a week where they can grab 75k views (which Evan & Carlin can sometimes; Alyssa's videos tend to be more like 20k), that's an extra $375 right there. I think that extra money is what pays for the constant phone upgrades, newest tech gadgets, nicer clothing for the wives etc. It also isn't shocking that the entire family seems to be carrying around Starbucks more often, carrying iPhones, dressing better etc. than when they were kids. When they were kids there was NO room for extras bc G&K were just worried about feeding and clothing 19. Now he has 7 kids off his payroll + Nathan/Law/Trace/Jackson/Warden/Isiah living at home but bringing in $$ (and I bet expected to buy their own clothes, phones, Sbux), he is only providing for 6 kids now. Add to that that a lot of their dinners out, date nights, trips, crazy engagement trips are comped for appearances on UPTv, of course they appear to be more well off. But it's appearances and this small potatoes stuff doesn't pay for big costs like health insurance or retirement savings etc. But hey I guess a huge % of Americans don't worry about that stuff, so why should the Bates.

They are ABSOLUTELY uninsured and/or (more likely) on Medicaid. Have you priced insurance lately for a family of 6 in a red state (not that blue states are so much better but there tend to be some more subsidies)? Insurance for ONE person can be easily $700-1000/mo. Insurance for a family is absolutely going to be double that -- so more like $1500-2000/mo. if you're lucky, it could be higher. That's IF you are honest and say you aren't at the poverty line. You really think he's paying 18k-24k in insurance yearly + paying a mortgage on that house + feeding 4 kids?? Come on. This is Gil's son. Gil the grifter. You KNOW Gil is paying him below the poverty line so as to make sure he can have access to Medicaid esp for the pregnant wife. Maybe he tops it off with a bit of cash on the side to Z but Gil also needs the money himself for the 10+ kids he has at home. As for UPTv paying $$$$ -- it's a low rated cable channel that lots of homes don't even get. And whatever $$$ they're paying needs to be split between G&K; Erin; Josie; Carlin; Z&W; Tori; Michael; Law; Nathan -- i.e. all the kids in Knox and I bet Law and Nathan demand their own cut, not just from G&K's share for the younger kids. As for the boutique making bank -- again split between Erin and Whit and Carlin -- and it's a limited type of market and now they pay rent and employees too. And even still you think the boutique is buying them 24k/yr in insurance? Besides Gil made statements when he was raising his own family -- you barter w drs you know for services (private practice fundies like Vick not so hospital drs); if all else fails you go to the ER, they can't turn you away. These are the statements of a man who is not a planner, who has raised his sons not to be planners -- even Z who had a steady paycheck/retirement/insurance, gave it up with a pregnant wife and 3 young kids at home bc planning isn't as important as being home to "invest in the kids' lives."

All these sisters are so comparative that you KNOW if Carlin ends up with the chunky daughter, she is NOT going to be pleased. Erin's kids are downright skinny; I do think Erin (and probably now Chad) makes actual home cooked meals and homemade type snacks too (bc let's be honest I think money is tight) so they eat enough, yet Chad's side of the family is stick thin; I saw a picture of his family once where the brothers were teenagers and were stick skinny - though they all appear to grow into regular size, so Chad's daughters will have that going for them in staying thin. Alyssa's kids probably ARE underfed with the muffin cups she puts out daily with a few pieces of cheese, pretzels, etc. for lunch so they'll stay skinny. Both Josie and Whit appear to have kids that were just never especially chubby babies and Whit's kids got even thinner as they got taller. Josie FWIW constantly shows videos where she's giving Willow pieces of chicken, beans, rice etc. for dinner so at least she's trying to put her on a regular/healthy eating path. Carlin and Evan OTOH are basically a bunch of teens raising a baby. They themselves consume a good amount of fast food, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're giving their kid a bit of that regularly so they don't have to bother making her something. And then constantly posting videos of giving her ice cream, sips of Sbux drinks, cake pops from Sbux etc. I believe she got a haircut the other day and was rewarded with an ice cream sandwich. Seems unnecessary - give her a sticker or something for a haircut or if you must give her an ice cream sandwich, can you not cut it so she gets a small piece, not an adult size serving? I feel like most people I know with kids these days went out of their way NOT to introduce a 1 yr old to sugar. While the kid was still relatively non opinionated and fully dependent on the parents for the first 12-24 months, that's when it was all about vegetables, chicken, rice, beans etc. -- so that when they hit 3 and are screaming for waffles daily, you at least know you gave them a good nutrition foundation for the first few years -- not cake pops and Sbux.

The situation Z&W are in right now with Jadon in the NICU for at least 2 days is the EXACT reason most people in America hold onto jobs with good benefits or if they want to leave such jobs think really really hard about insurance alternatives, timing of leaving etc. He left his cop job sometime before Sept of last year. They had had covid which he caught at work and Whit was already pregnant -- bc they talked about the fear of getting covid while she was pregnant. So it's not like he quit and THEN she got pregnant. They KNEW a kid was coming. He really couldn't have stayed with the sheriff's office from Sept 2020 to June 2021? Adults often stay 9 extra months at a job whether they want to or not because it's a good financial decision, even if it means that they can't "invest as much in their kids' lives as Gil did." We looked when this episode aired -- as a cop he had Tenn Blue Cross Blue Shield, a blue chip type of plan for $350/MONTH for a family of 5. That was CRAZY good. They clearly don't have insurance like that now because it'd be $2000+ per month to cover the whole family with that type of insurance. That's the type of insurance where they'd walk out of the hospital paying a $200 copay for all the care Jadon needs and that'd be it. I assume Whit (and prob Z too) is on Medicaid as he prob isn't making that much money on the books from Gil and the kid will be covered by Medicaid or some kind of plan for kids under the poverty line - which many states have. Medicaid type plans do have deductibles and out of pocket costs. I mean they aren't huge but often can be capped at a % of yearly pay etc. so I wouldn't be surprised that even with Medicaid/under the poverty line, this costs them more than it would have with Blue Cross 9 months ago.

How do we know what Kelton thinks? Did they do an IG live on this? He talks somewhere about his mom's epidural and how it caused her amniotic fluid embolism? Regardless while it's super sad about his mom and always will be, I hope he doesn't "deny" his wife pain relief because of what happened to his mom a decade ago at a different hospital. Like sure talk to the drs about it and about how you're super nervous, they'll walk you thru what causes whatever his mom's condition was and how likely it is NOT caused by an epidural, and will provide you reassurances on being super safe/only having an attending anesthesiologist to do the epi/whatever you need, but ultimately it is your WIFE's decision because she's the one enduring the pain and having a person come out of her, not you. IDK something about Kelton seems controlling though. IDK why I think that but I do. Maybe it isn't so much about his control but about how she seems 1000% invested in pleasing Kelton and would prob do what he preferred even as she endured pain and actual drs. with years and years of training told her it'd be ok to get an epidural.

Why is he nervous about epidurals because of his mother? I thought his mother did a home birth and something went wrong. I assumed at best she had a midwife etc., the way fundies do birth - wing it and hope for the best. Like I hadn’t heard what went wrong had anything to do with pain management at a major hospital. A place like UT does thousands of epidurals per month so yeah I hope she doesn’t suffer the contractions caused by the inducing drugs (which I’ve heard are much much stronger) without an epidural just bc of Kelton. Haven’t given birth myself but I’ve heard from friends that when they start talking about drugs to move a labor along, they automatically call an anesthesiologist, and if you then say you wanted to do it naturally, they heavily counsel against it.

Why didn't she do it 2 days ago? She and Whit could have given birth together and shared a post partum room. I mean isn't that the Bates' dream - as many people pregnant and birthing at the same time as possible so this literally could have been THE SAME TIME. Though I guess Josie uses U. Tenn not Vick so maybe they won't find it compelling to induce today bc OMG my sister in law is giving birth to grandchild 10001 and if I gave birth to 10002 today they'd have the same date and place of birth and it'd make mommy and God soooo happy, please???!

Agreed she is NOT an attractive kid. Fashionista Carlin may want to buy her some clothes that fit. She has the huge toddler belly which is fine but no shirt ever covers the belly. The video of Kelly and Carlin very obviously shows Kelly pulling down her shirt when C starts recording as the kid's entire belly was hanging out there. And way to get her hooked on whatever Starbucks drink they're drinking. Maybe it wasn't a coffee but even still is it necessary for a 1 yr old!?

Kelly and Carlin camped out on the roof of the parking garage across from Whit's hospital room window when she was giving birth!? And the construction workers working on the hospital roof thought they were insane and/or were somehow cheering for/flirting with the workers!? WTF is wrong with these people!? You've attended 600000 births of kids and grandkids. Starting probably next year when covid becomes less of an issue, you'll be back to attending another 10 births/yr. Is it THAT big of a deal that the couples that give birth in 2020-2021 get to do it without you peering at them? Not to suggest they could see anything but it seems unnecessary, intrusive, and lame to be watching the window of the hospital room and getting Z to bring the baby to the window etc. as if you've never seen a baby/there hasn't been a baby in your family in 50 years. And who does this on a 95 degree day with their own 1 yr old in tow!? And cue the posts from Kelly now -- she is soooooo grateful for the NICU staff caring for Jadon. And why the heck is it JadOn and not JadEn. I mean the name was big 15-20 years ago with the whole Jaden/Brayden/Zayden trend -- as Jaden's I know are now graduating high school. You've had 15 years to know how to spell it?!

So Jadon Carl (kid no. 4) was born on 6/7 but is in Tenn Children's Hospital bc his oxygen dropped so he is getting "treatment" to be strong enough to go home. Z&W are soooo thankful to the drs and nurses for working so hard to get their baby ready to go home blah blah. I do hope the kid is fine and this was just one of those things. But I kinda love how this family (all the Bates not just Z&W) is sooo against school or college bc you'd have to sit next to green haired people or working for others bc the could be non Christian heathens, yet when they need medical care to have kid #800000 or fix whatever is going on with kid #80000 they are SOOOO thankful for those green haired heathens who went to med school, nursing school etc. THEN it's ok to accept those people's services because it's about YOU and YOUR BABIES.

It was Evan. The quartet was Kelton, Bobby, Travis and Evan - the 4 newest brothers in law/to be. And BTW I thought it was ridiculous that Lawson and all the sisters/Whit went on about OMG Tiffany is SUCH a natural in front of a camera, she doesn't need any instruction at all. Uh yes she can stand for 5 minutes and model your crappy dresses. You do realize she's a professional in front of a camera right -- "As a child actor, Espensen nabbed guest starring spots on shows like Disney Channel’s Hannah Montana, Criminal Minds, NCIS, The Young and the Restless, and True Jackson, VP. From 2009-2010, she had a recurring voice role on Phineas and Ferb as Ginger. In her teen years, Espensen’s career continued to blossom, with guest starring roles on shows like House and Good Luck Charlie. In addition to playing Wallaine Rapkin in the 2014 Nickelodeon Original Movie Terry the Tomboy, she co-starred with Ashley Argota on Nickelodeon’s Bucket & Skinner’s Epic Adventures. She also played the co-starring role of Belinda on the Disney XD series Kirby Buckets from 2014-2017. Espensen even became part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in 2017, when she played Cindy – one of Peter Parker’s classmates – in Spider-Man: Homecoming. She returned as Cindy in the 2018 Marvel film Avengers: Infinity War." Or would it make your dumbass brother look small and unaccomplished if you were to acknowledge that his gf is in fact talented and has credentials!?

Even if Kelton isn't pressuring for a boy (and IDK about that - maybe he isn't but I can see him wanting a son; he's very big on his own father-son relationship and his brother relationships and now he has a business so I can see him wanting to work side by side with a son), look at John & Alyssa. John has said many times that he doesn't need a son and he seems SO over the baby making/dealing with little kids, that I think if Alyssa were to say that's it, we're done -- he'd be ecstatic. Yet it's ALYSSA who started with that's it we're done with 4 and is now back to well give us another 1-2 years and we'll see. SHE seems like she is desperate to give John a son even though he's at the point where he's like meh I don't care that much, let's just get over this baby/little kid stage and move on with life. These girls have been raised to think like that, even the ones who seem less backwards than others . . . wouldn't be surprised if it was similar with Josie.

So during the show Travis put out on IG a pic of him and Katie from their engagement with the date 6-17-21. What is that? It can't be the wedding date which was supposedly December. Not to mention 6/17 is a Thursday? Is he hawking the airing of the engagement episode on 6/17 - bc that's a little fame whore-ish for someone not even married in yet.

If she has the clotting disorder but is allergic to heparin, what is she doing? Are there other drugs instead or are they chancing it this whole pregnancy? I think she goes to drs from U Tenn, at least she delivered the first kid at a UT hospital. So yeah they wouldn’t be at all shy to tell anyone if more pregnancies are dangerous and they should consider wrapping up shop with two kids. Of course they can’t force you to listen and must take you on as a high risk patient once you and your husband go back and consider it and say sure but they’re JUST drs, only the Lord knows. I don’t think they’re stopping now. They haven’t made a boy for Kelton so right now there isn’t a Balka grandson and Kelton is the only married son who can produce a namesake right now + once they make said boy, they’ll want him to have a brother. I say the quickest they wrap it up is with 4 kids and if there’s a few more girls along the way it’ll be more like 5-7 kids.

I mean I do think Katie is dumb (like Alyssa) but she has taken the - guys like girls who play dumb thing - to a whole new extreme. I mean she is rivaling Carlin who at the marriage license office was like -- wait dad your full name ISN'T Gil (it's Gilvin I think); wait IDK where my mom was born; SSN who can remember SOOOO many numbers; quickly followed by OMG Evan you know your mom and dad's names AND where they were born AND your SSN OMG you're SOOOO smart!? Though I guess Kelly never taught her daughters you can play dumb about things that make the guy feel SMART and like a manly provider, but you are expected to know about the WOMANLY things -- cooking, cleaning, sewing etc.

At least Esther can cook. I assume she cooks for her family nightly. But you know Nathan is the "traditional" fundie guy who would not have gotten with her if he found out early on she couldn't cook and wouldn't cook nightly. He does look down on the sisters that don't cook/don't cook well. Good luck Travis. Either it'll be like a Chad or Evan thing where he'll end up cooking, or like a Josie thing where they'll rely on meal services and instapot and 15 minute/one pan meals. Michael and Alyssa handled all the cooking when all 19 were home. IDK what they have been doing since 2015 when Michael got married. Though we know Kelly isn't getting off her ass so I imagine some combo of Addie/Ellie/Callie cooks nightly. Alyssa clearly CAN cook but I think she's just over it having cooked nightly since like probably age 10. And now you're right it is all about the girls looking perfect and matching, she doesn't care what they eat. The daily crackers, pretzels and cheese thrown onto the outdoor table and calling that lunch seems like a bit too lazy; like she really can't even make them a PBJ or grilled cheese daily and just rotate those 2 things? Instead she thinks lunchable type foods are better EVERY DAY? And the poster above is right -- it doesn't seem like enough food for 3 growing kids, nor enough variety of nutrition. Alyssa herself films herself a lot going thru the McDonalds drive thru or sending John out for McDonalds at night after the girls are in bed. So at least she's not feeding her kids that crap but I'm surprised she's eating it as much as she is.

But did we ever think this business -- or anything the girls do -- is ever for the long haul? The only thing for the long haul is making babies. They all try to "work" if they're so inclined until they have baby 2 or maybe 3 -- i.e. however many dad is willing to take care of/until the dad's fascination wears off. I guess in Erin/Whit's case it's baby 4 - but in their case their kids can come to work, and/or they can show up for an hr here or there and still gush about owning a business while others peddle their wares, whereas for Josie - if brides hire YOU to do makeup, YOU must be there, you can't just send someone else on the wedding day. I mean come on Josie's business was going to take mommy away from her kids all day on Saturdays? Sure she's with them the other 6 days a week, but it was only going to be a matter of time before she and Kelton decided "together" that it's important for her to be there Saturdays bc Kelton is home and they need family time -- i.e. Kelton ain't watching 2, 3, 4, 6, or however many kids he has every weekend for the next decade.

How much time do these 2 spend in/on that parking garage?? Countless photo shoots. I think it's where they did their gender reveal. During the pandemic they'd post about picking up takeout and going to eat it there on date night - like multiple times. I believe last 4th of July or some such holiday was spent up there!? I know Kelton is a big fan of downtown Knox so I think this makes them feel like see we go downtown all the time, look at the view. Uh except you're not IN downtown, you're on the outskirts of it on some random empty garage?! If they love downtown sooo much why haven't they found a couple parks or city squares or cute neighborhoods where they can do photo shoots, gender reveals, and date nights to their hearts' content? Me thinks it's bc Knox is a small downtown with a few streets max of popular restaurants and stuff and those blocks may not have open space to hang out unless you're going into a restaurant/store; and the rest of the city including city parks is where you're more likely to encounter black people, bus stops/public transportation, homeless people, have to walk by a homeless shelter, may see a few drugged out people etc. So we want to be super cool and hang out downtown all the time but eh we'll do it from the safety of a parking garage where no one knows we're here.

Watched a John & Alyssa video for the first time in a bit -- damn she's aged. She married at 19 and this was their 7th anniversary video, so she's around 26. I guess 4 pregnancies' + 2 heart surgeries in 7 years would age anyone but she totally looks like someone who cakes on the makeup to still appear youthful. And their 7th anniversary was so freaking dumb and I 100% understand why they've said in the past that they have a hard time sticking to a budget and saving $$. Alyssa buys tacky crap left and right. I'm sure it's a remnant of a childhood where there was never any extra $$ to spend but damn. I mean I realize it's dollar store junk and lots of it was repurposed from Nathan's engagement last week but it was a waste of money and tacky to be setting up a table outside tying bows to chairs (and having "friends" come do it for you at 10 pm?!) and setting candles around the pool and fake lilies in the pool -- all so you could put out an appetizer dinner where you just lined the table cloth with crackers, pretzels, cheese, fruit, and deli meat -- and go ahead there's dinner!? And then of course she had to spend $$$ ordering the balloon bouquet and personalized cookies. I love how she went on about they're not doing their typical anniversary AirBnB rental bc they just bought a house so it's not in the budget + the houses they rent are just like the one they now own so it's NBD now. Uh did you consult your husband?? Because I have never seen anyone as excited as him re last year's crappy anniversary vacation -- like he was GUSHING about having soooo many snacks and eating Cheez Its day and night and staying up late playing pool with his wife and having sex with her anytime he felt like dropping trou. Like at the end he was MISERABLE leaving to go home to 3 screaming kids and she had to cajole him into saying yeah he missed the kids. Uh I think your husband would have much preferred 1 night away even in a motel where he could have sex with no fears that a kid will wake up and come looking for mommy.

That is one notable thing about the Bates -- MOST of the couples are very well suited to each other which isn't easy given that you are basically allowed to have 1 boyfriend max (i.e. one failed courtship) before you MUST find a husband -- i.e. say yes to the next person that looks at you. Carlin & Evan - both annoying and LOUD yet they find each other cute and funny so it works. Josie & Kelton; Alyssa & John - both daughters seem to want distance from their own families and their husbands 100% don't want to be with their in laws either. It's like John and Kelton were both looking for girls who'd fit into THEIR families, not becoming Mr. Bates. Plus both couples are on the same page re how they want to live -- man works hard in the skilled trades, they buy nice houses on a mortgage, go spend money out on dates and small vacations etc. Brandon & Michaela -- both sweet, quiet, serious and actually seem to believe what the families just preach -- like a genuine heart for kids even if they can't have their own, they're more involved than they have to be with nieces and nephews etc; and both seem to have other interests that they've supported in their spouses -- nursing, B writing a book; M setting up that knitting/cross stitch business; like the relationship didn't become some bitter fundie misery ride just because they weren't "blessed" with kids and B does not seem to "blame" Michaela or love her any less. Zach & Whit - he still acts like he's lucky to have her, they seem on the same page re wanting a nice home etc. I feel like the only marriages that aren't particularly suited for each other are Chad & Erin - she rushed in with a handsome prince charming so she'd have her perfect day and the life she dreamed and it turns out she did, it's just that HE I think expected a 100% fundie wife and really I think Erin wears the pants in that marriage just like Kelly and not only is he left providing but also cooking, cleaning, raising kids, and generally dancing to her tune. And Bobby and Tori -- that was 100% him rushing in because if Kelton was getting with a Bates, then he wanted that too bc it would mean him and his best buddy marry at roughly the same time, become brothers in law, have kids that'll grow up together, and he can work with his bestie for life. He didn't seem to consider that none of the Bates girls left at that point -- Carlin (IDK if she was with Evan yet); Tori; Josie -- suited his personality AT ALL. Katie & Trav -- yeah she seems like she just wants to rush down the aisle ASAP because her sisters did and she isn't thinking about whether she and Trav are suited to each other or not, she simply doesn't care and just wants her day, her babies, etc.

I'd guess late 1990s or early 2000s is when it started and it lasted until probably like 2005 or so -- when social media took off. Like as soon as IG became a thing, the cake smashing went away because you want your guests to hashtag PERFECT pictures which isn't happening when someone is caught on camera with a random towel wiping off icing. As the trend was dying down though it started dying down as guys were starting to be told (by brides; brides' moms; wedding planners) -- she can smash cake on you but you can't do it to her because it'll ruin her makeup that she spend thousands on/spend hours on. And then girls -- who tend to be the more social media savvy ones in most couples -- started being like wait no I want my man to look PERFECT the entire night, no cake smash from my side either . . . .

The cake smashing/ice cream smashing just shows how much she doesn't know her groom and doesn't care. In her fundie mind, ALL guys love it when girls are cute and playful and what's cuter than throwing food -- like a little girl may do in IDK 1st grade to get a boy's attention?? Reality is Travis isn't Evan. Evan -- annoying as he is -- is a playful type of guy. I don't think he'd mind cake or ice cream thrown on him; just as he got sooo excited making a YT video with Carlin where they went from one fast food place to the other ordering whatever the guy in front of them had. Travis OTOH has a demeanor that's closer to Bobby or maybe even Brandon -- a little more serious. Clearly he's NOT excited by ice cream. Does not want to be made fun of for being not LOVING ice cream. And does not like his clothing messed up with cake or ice cream on it. Anyone who has spent 10 min with him might notice that he's a serious kind of guy, don't do these things. OR if you are looking for a playful type of guy, that's fine, move on and find someone who fits your personality better. You KNOW she will smash wedding cake in his face and laugh if it gets on his tux. You KNOW he'll be expected to smile sweetly as if he's fine with it because honestly he's marrying for sex and this girl will allow him to get some in the next half hour so what can he say -- last thing he needs is going into the honeymoon suite with a wife at all mad at him for saying something or smashing cake in HER face and ruining her makeup. Yeah none of these parents are doing their kids any favors. Reality is in these conservative cultures (fundie but also other conservative faiths around the world), marriage is ALL that matters. Just get them married off ASAP. Doesn't matter if they don't know themselves yet, if they don't know each other, if they aren't genuinely happy with each other, if they aren't mentally or emotionally ready, have some sort of physical or mental problem that hasn't been dealt with (I'm not saying these two do but look at say Josh Duggar; and the conservative side of my family - an aspergers guy who can't talk to anyone let alone women, NBD marry him off) -- no no it's ok, they'll deal with it, marriage fixes those "day to day" problems (i.e. in a culture where you can't divorce one person will compromise and twist themselves into a pretzel to make marriage work even if it makes them miserable for life-- i.e. Bobby), I mean at least they HAVE some one and aren't going to be single or childless at 35 - the horrors . . . . IDK anything about Travis's parents but if they're pushing this along/haven't slowed it down -- which they haven't seemed to or else they really could have put it in their son's head that no matter what Katie and Kelly say he is not to propose until after age 22 and no he isn't graduating early to get married -- then they are just like G&K. Say what you will about Bobby, but his parents have always seemed 1000% not pleased with his decision. Like they couldn't stop him obviously but they also weren't pushing him along and if he had said -- I think I want to break up with her or IDK I like her but I just want to date her until age 25 not marry 6 months after graduation, I think they would have supported him. I mean his mom was PISSED that he moved to Knox to live in a trailer to be with her; at the wedding both his parents were NOT elated but more like yeah well he's married; and when they showed the parents recently at Kade's 2nd birthday they just seem like their interactions with both Bobby and Tori are pretty limited and "transactional" -- they seem not to like her nor like how his life is or maybe they see their son isn't happy and feel bad but obviously don't want to mess anything up for him/his family so they stay distant.