cereality

It was Evan. The quartet was Kelton, Bobby, Travis and Evan - the 4 newest brothers in law/to be. And BTW I thought it was ridiculous that Lawson and all the sisters/Whit went on about OMG Tiffany is SUCH a natural in front of a camera, she doesn't need any instruction at all. Uh yes she can stand for 5 minutes and model your crappy dresses. You do realize she's a professional in front of a camera right -- "As a child actor, Espensen nabbed guest starring spots on shows like Disney Channel’s Hannah Montana, Criminal Minds, NCIS, The Young and the Restless, and True Jackson, VP. From 2009-2010, she had a recurring voice role on Phineas and Ferb as Ginger. In her teen years, Espensen’s career continued to blossom, with guest starring roles on shows like House and Good Luck Charlie. In addition to playing Wallaine Rapkin in the 2014 Nickelodeon Original Movie Terry the Tomboy, she co-starred with Ashley Argota on Nickelodeon’s Bucket & Skinner’s Epic Adventures. She also played the co-starring role of Belinda on the Disney XD series Kirby Buckets from 2014-2017. Espensen even became part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in 2017, when she played Cindy – one of Peter Parker’s classmates – in Spider-Man: Homecoming. She returned as Cindy in the 2018 Marvel film Avengers: Infinity War." Or would it make your dumbass brother look small and unaccomplished if you were to acknowledge that his gf is in fact talented and has credentials!?

Even if Kelton isn't pressuring for a boy (and IDK about that - maybe he isn't but I can see him wanting a son; he's very big on his own father-son relationship and his brother relationships and now he has a business so I can see him wanting to work side by side with a son), look at John & Alyssa. John has said many times that he doesn't need a son and he seems SO over the baby making/dealing with little kids, that I think if Alyssa were to say that's it, we're done -- he'd be ecstatic. Yet it's ALYSSA who started with that's it we're done with 4 and is now back to well give us another 1-2 years and we'll see. SHE seems like she is desperate to give John a son even though he's at the point where he's like meh I don't care that much, let's just get over this baby/little kid stage and move on with life. These girls have been raised to think like that, even the ones who seem less backwards than others . . . wouldn't be surprised if it was similar with Josie.

So during the show Travis put out on IG a pic of him and Katie from their engagement with the date 6-17-21. What is that? It can't be the wedding date which was supposedly December. Not to mention 6/17 is a Thursday? Is he hawking the airing of the engagement episode on 6/17 - bc that's a little fame whore-ish for someone not even married in yet.

If she has the clotting disorder but is allergic to heparin, what is she doing? Are there other drugs instead or are they chancing it this whole pregnancy? I think she goes to drs from U Tenn, at least she delivered the first kid at a UT hospital. So yeah they wouldn’t be at all shy to tell anyone if more pregnancies are dangerous and they should consider wrapping up shop with two kids. Of course they can’t force you to listen and must take you on as a high risk patient once you and your husband go back and consider it and say sure but they’re JUST drs, only the Lord knows. I don’t think they’re stopping now. They haven’t made a boy for Kelton so right now there isn’t a Balka grandson and Kelton is the only married son who can produce a namesake right now + once they make said boy, they’ll want him to have a brother. I say the quickest they wrap it up is with 4 kids and if there’s a few more girls along the way it’ll be more like 5-7 kids.

I mean I do think Katie is dumb (like Alyssa) but she has taken the - guys like girls who play dumb thing - to a whole new extreme. I mean she is rivaling Carlin who at the marriage license office was like -- wait dad your full name ISN'T Gil (it's Gilvin I think); wait IDK where my mom was born; SSN who can remember SOOOO many numbers; quickly followed by OMG Evan you know your mom and dad's names AND where they were born AND your SSN OMG you're SOOOO smart!? Though I guess Kelly never taught her daughters you can play dumb about things that make the guy feel SMART and like a manly provider, but you are expected to know about the WOMANLY things -- cooking, cleaning, sewing etc.

At least Esther can cook. I assume she cooks for her family nightly. But you know Nathan is the "traditional" fundie guy who would not have gotten with her if he found out early on she couldn't cook and wouldn't cook nightly. He does look down on the sisters that don't cook/don't cook well. Good luck Travis. Either it'll be like a Chad or Evan thing where he'll end up cooking, or like a Josie thing where they'll rely on meal services and instapot and 15 minute/one pan meals. Michael and Alyssa handled all the cooking when all 19 were home. IDK what they have been doing since 2015 when Michael got married. Though we know Kelly isn't getting off her ass so I imagine some combo of Addie/Ellie/Callie cooks nightly. Alyssa clearly CAN cook but I think she's just over it having cooked nightly since like probably age 10. And now you're right it is all about the girls looking perfect and matching, she doesn't care what they eat. The daily crackers, pretzels and cheese thrown onto the outdoor table and calling that lunch seems like a bit too lazy; like she really can't even make them a PBJ or grilled cheese daily and just rotate those 2 things? Instead she thinks lunchable type foods are better EVERY DAY? And the poster above is right -- it doesn't seem like enough food for 3 growing kids, nor enough variety of nutrition. Alyssa herself films herself a lot going thru the McDonalds drive thru or sending John out for McDonalds at night after the girls are in bed. So at least she's not feeding her kids that crap but I'm surprised she's eating it as much as she is.

But did we ever think this business -- or anything the girls do -- is ever for the long haul? The only thing for the long haul is making babies. They all try to "work" if they're so inclined until they have baby 2 or maybe 3 -- i.e. however many dad is willing to take care of/until the dad's fascination wears off. I guess in Erin/Whit's case it's baby 4 - but in their case their kids can come to work, and/or they can show up for an hr here or there and still gush about owning a business while others peddle their wares, whereas for Josie - if brides hire YOU to do makeup, YOU must be there, you can't just send someone else on the wedding day. I mean come on Josie's business was going to take mommy away from her kids all day on Saturdays? Sure she's with them the other 6 days a week, but it was only going to be a matter of time before she and Kelton decided "together" that it's important for her to be there Saturdays bc Kelton is home and they need family time -- i.e. Kelton ain't watching 2, 3, 4, 6, or however many kids he has every weekend for the next decade.

How much time do these 2 spend in/on that parking garage?? Countless photo shoots. I think it's where they did their gender reveal. During the pandemic they'd post about picking up takeout and going to eat it there on date night - like multiple times. I believe last 4th of July or some such holiday was spent up there!? I know Kelton is a big fan of downtown Knox so I think this makes them feel like see we go downtown all the time, look at the view. Uh except you're not IN downtown, you're on the outskirts of it on some random empty garage?! If they love downtown sooo much why haven't they found a couple parks or city squares or cute neighborhoods where they can do photo shoots, gender reveals, and date nights to their hearts' content? Me thinks it's bc Knox is a small downtown with a few streets max of popular restaurants and stuff and those blocks may not have open space to hang out unless you're going into a restaurant/store; and the rest of the city including city parks is where you're more likely to encounter black people, bus stops/public transportation, homeless people, have to walk by a homeless shelter, may see a few drugged out people etc. So we want to be super cool and hang out downtown all the time but eh we'll do it from the safety of a parking garage where no one knows we're here.

Watched a John & Alyssa video for the first time in a bit -- damn she's aged. She married at 19 and this was their 7th anniversary video, so she's around 26. I guess 4 pregnancies' + 2 heart surgeries in 7 years would age anyone but she totally looks like someone who cakes on the makeup to still appear youthful. And their 7th anniversary was so freaking dumb and I 100% understand why they've said in the past that they have a hard time sticking to a budget and saving $$. Alyssa buys tacky crap left and right. I'm sure it's a remnant of a childhood where there was never any extra $$ to spend but damn. I mean I realize it's dollar store junk and lots of it was repurposed from Nathan's engagement last week but it was a waste of money and tacky to be setting up a table outside tying bows to chairs (and having "friends" come do it for you at 10 pm?!) and setting candles around the pool and fake lilies in the pool -- all so you could put out an appetizer dinner where you just lined the table cloth with crackers, pretzels, cheese, fruit, and deli meat -- and go ahead there's dinner!? And then of course she had to spend $$$ ordering the balloon bouquet and personalized cookies. I love how she went on about they're not doing their typical anniversary AirBnB rental bc they just bought a house so it's not in the budget + the houses they rent are just like the one they now own so it's NBD now. Uh did you consult your husband?? Because I have never seen anyone as excited as him re last year's crappy anniversary vacation -- like he was GUSHING about having soooo many snacks and eating Cheez Its day and night and staying up late playing pool with his wife and having sex with her anytime he felt like dropping trou. Like at the end he was MISERABLE leaving to go home to 3 screaming kids and she had to cajole him into saying yeah he missed the kids. Uh I think your husband would have much preferred 1 night away even in a motel where he could have sex with no fears that a kid will wake up and come looking for mommy.

That is one notable thing about the Bates -- MOST of the couples are very well suited to each other which isn't easy given that you are basically allowed to have 1 boyfriend max (i.e. one failed courtship) before you MUST find a husband -- i.e. say yes to the next person that looks at you. Carlin & Evan - both annoying and LOUD yet they find each other cute and funny so it works. Josie & Kelton; Alyssa & John - both daughters seem to want distance from their own families and their husbands 100% don't want to be with their in laws either. It's like John and Kelton were both looking for girls who'd fit into THEIR families, not becoming Mr. Bates. Plus both couples are on the same page re how they want to live -- man works hard in the skilled trades, they buy nice houses on a mortgage, go spend money out on dates and small vacations etc. Brandon & Michaela -- both sweet, quiet, serious and actually seem to believe what the families just preach -- like a genuine heart for kids even if they can't have their own, they're more involved than they have to be with nieces and nephews etc; and both seem to have other interests that they've supported in their spouses -- nursing, B writing a book; M setting up that knitting/cross stitch business; like the relationship didn't become some bitter fundie misery ride just because they weren't "blessed" with kids and B does not seem to "blame" Michaela or love her any less. Zach & Whit - he still acts like he's lucky to have her, they seem on the same page re wanting a nice home etc. I feel like the only marriages that aren't particularly suited for each other are Chad & Erin - she rushed in with a handsome prince charming so she'd have her perfect day and the life she dreamed and it turns out she did, it's just that HE I think expected a 100% fundie wife and really I think Erin wears the pants in that marriage just like Kelly and not only is he left providing but also cooking, cleaning, raising kids, and generally dancing to her tune. And Bobby and Tori -- that was 100% him rushing in because if Kelton was getting with a Bates, then he wanted that too bc it would mean him and his best buddy marry at roughly the same time, become brothers in law, have kids that'll grow up together, and he can work with his bestie for life. He didn't seem to consider that none of the Bates girls left at that point -- Carlin (IDK if she was with Evan yet); Tori; Josie -- suited his personality AT ALL. Katie & Trav -- yeah she seems like she just wants to rush down the aisle ASAP because her sisters did and she isn't thinking about whether she and Trav are suited to each other or not, she simply doesn't care and just wants her day, her babies, etc.

I'd guess late 1990s or early 2000s is when it started and it lasted until probably like 2005 or so -- when social media took off. Like as soon as IG became a thing, the cake smashing went away because you want your guests to hashtag PERFECT pictures which isn't happening when someone is caught on camera with a random towel wiping off icing. As the trend was dying down though it started dying down as guys were starting to be told (by brides; brides' moms; wedding planners) -- she can smash cake on you but you can't do it to her because it'll ruin her makeup that she spend thousands on/spend hours on. And then girls -- who tend to be the more social media savvy ones in most couples -- started being like wait no I want my man to look PERFECT the entire night, no cake smash from my side either . . . .

The cake smashing/ice cream smashing just shows how much she doesn't know her groom and doesn't care. In her fundie mind, ALL guys love it when girls are cute and playful and what's cuter than throwing food -- like a little girl may do in IDK 1st grade to get a boy's attention?? Reality is Travis isn't Evan. Evan -- annoying as he is -- is a playful type of guy. I don't think he'd mind cake or ice cream thrown on him; just as he got sooo excited making a YT video with Carlin where they went from one fast food place to the other ordering whatever the guy in front of them had. Travis OTOH has a demeanor that's closer to Bobby or maybe even Brandon -- a little more serious. Clearly he's NOT excited by ice cream. Does not want to be made fun of for being not LOVING ice cream. And does not like his clothing messed up with cake or ice cream on it. Anyone who has spent 10 min with him might notice that he's a serious kind of guy, don't do these things. OR if you are looking for a playful type of guy, that's fine, move on and find someone who fits your personality better. You KNOW she will smash wedding cake in his face and laugh if it gets on his tux. You KNOW he'll be expected to smile sweetly as if he's fine with it because honestly he's marrying for sex and this girl will allow him to get some in the next half hour so what can he say -- last thing he needs is going into the honeymoon suite with a wife at all mad at him for saying something or smashing cake in HER face and ruining her makeup. Yeah none of these parents are doing their kids any favors. Reality is in these conservative cultures (fundie but also other conservative faiths around the world), marriage is ALL that matters. Just get them married off ASAP. Doesn't matter if they don't know themselves yet, if they don't know each other, if they aren't genuinely happy with each other, if they aren't mentally or emotionally ready, have some sort of physical or mental problem that hasn't been dealt with (I'm not saying these two do but look at say Josh Duggar; and the conservative side of my family - an aspergers guy who can't talk to anyone let alone women, NBD marry him off) -- no no it's ok, they'll deal with it, marriage fixes those "day to day" problems (i.e. in a culture where you can't divorce one person will compromise and twist themselves into a pretzel to make marriage work even if it makes them miserable for life-- i.e. Bobby), I mean at least they HAVE some one and aren't going to be single or childless at 35 - the horrors . . . . IDK anything about Travis's parents but if they're pushing this along/haven't slowed it down -- which they haven't seemed to or else they really could have put it in their son's head that no matter what Katie and Kelly say he is not to propose until after age 22 and no he isn't graduating early to get married -- then they are just like G&K. Say what you will about Bobby, but his parents have always seemed 1000% not pleased with his decision. Like they couldn't stop him obviously but they also weren't pushing him along and if he had said -- I think I want to break up with her or IDK I like her but I just want to date her until age 25 not marry 6 months after graduation, I think they would have supported him. I mean his mom was PISSED that he moved to Knox to live in a trailer to be with her; at the wedding both his parents were NOT elated but more like yeah well he's married; and when they showed the parents recently at Kade's 2nd birthday they just seem like their interactions with both Bobby and Tori are pretty limited and "transactional" -- they seem not to like her nor like how his life is or maybe they see their son isn't happy and feel bad but obviously don't want to mess anything up for him/his family so they stay distant.

These people are like Bobby and Tori 2.0. She's a complainer who is dependent on her family and also clueless -- like she wouldn't notice or care if her man wasn't happy. And Travis seems JUST like Bobby -- like not genuinely even happy with the courtship but smiling politely to get himself a wife and some time in the sack with her. All thru his courtship, engagement day, and even on their honeymoon Bobby gave off a vibe that he found Tori annoying. Like when he was taking her to the mountains in NC to get engaged and she kept going -- omg do you have a ring, where is it, where is it, are you gonna ask now, now, now?! And he was smiling sweetly while his face said OMG SHUT UP. Same with the honeymoon where she was making SUCH a big deal about cooking and how she'd never cooked string beans or potatoes this way blah blah, while he was the one actually doing the cooking -- that he snapped -- just watch the string beans for 2 min while I go get the steaks off the gril!? Travis seems just like that -- annoyed that she smashed ice cream in his face at an ice cream store in Knox; PISSED that she was making fun of him because he's not big on ice cream and only tends to get vanilla; annoyed that she purposely threw cake on his jacket at his birthday at his family's house; annoyed that her family insists on dating chaperones while Kelly cackles about how they can babysit Jeb and Jud, while he's like WTF I'm not here to babysit your kids!? He's too young to realize that sex will not make a marriage happy with someone you already find annoying. And BTW buddy it'll be free and clear young person sex for maybe 3 weeks to 2 months until she's pregnant and then it'll be no sex and/or pregnant sex for the rest of your 20s and lots of your 30s too. In Tori fashion, I imagine Katie gets pregnant within a month of marriage. Then whines non stop about how hard it is to be away from her family while pregnant and with an infant and lo and behold, they'll be planning to move back to Knox in time to have the baby delivered by Dr. Vick or shortly thereafter. IIRC Tori ended up living in Nashville with Bobby for all of 12 months max. They married in Dec of 2017, moved to Nashville in March/April 2018 after Tori was already pregnant as there was an episode with Dr. Vick saying they'll transfer her care to a dr. in Nashville, Kade was born in Nov 2018 in Nashville, and I believe they had moved back to Knox by the time was 3-4 months old max. With Tori I'm sure complaining to Bobby the whole time about how it was sooooo hard to manage 1 baby by herself with no family help all day long. I imagine Katie will take the same path. The only way it doesn't happen is if he 100% digs in his heels about living near HIS mommy and daddy and/or just flat out vetoes it because he hates her family. I hope he can look at Bobby and realize that that's him in 4-5 years. Though I don't think he's mature or self aware enough to even be able to make comparisons like that and because Bobby seems 1000% happy with his kids (he really does seem to love his sons a lot and very excited for his daughter) and has set up a tolerable life by spending 40 hrs/wk with his bestie, Travis probably can't even distinguish whether Bobby is genuinely happy or making it work for his kids with his best friend's help. Like you need life experience to be able to gauge things like that and a 20 year old who has never lived away from mommy and daddy just doesn't have that.

How did this 20 year old in "college" manage to buy a house? I mean maybe he has a part time job but I doubt shifts at some local retail store get you even a 10% down payment on a house. Not to mention this is a house in NJ, not rural Tenn. Granted it's not in the commutable to NYC part of NJ which is REALLY expensive, but being from a town adjacent to his, even Southern NJ (commutable to Philadelphia) is WAY WAY more expensive than any part of rural Knoxville and property taxes EVERYWHERE in NJ are REALLY high. Like he's going to pay in property tax in a month what Katie's Tennessee siblings pay in a whole year. It's a tiny little brick house, but really no different than what Bobby and Kelton have bought and what Chad rents -- except Bobby and Kelton are 3 years out of college and are in the skilled trades and not part time. And then on tonight's IG stories, he's showing that he is gut renovating the house. Not some paint and some new bathrooms, but literally they are down to the beams, changing the flow of the house (I assume they want open concept), changing where the front door is, putting in bathrooms where they didn't exist before etc. Can't imagine he's doing it all himself -- and Prince Chad hasn't been there -- so he must be hiring contractors at least for the important things like structural, plumbing and electrical, even if he can then handle putting up the dry wall and painting it. I assume his family is well to do? Do we assume they gave him the down payment + the gut renovation money? Or is this one of those things were mom and dad buy a house as their own investment property and oh look we'll call it Travis's house bc he'll pay us the rent that pays the mortgage and he'll be the one to deal with the contractor but look he's ready for marriage -- he has a house at 20 years old?

I get what people are saying that Law and Nathan are both full of themselves, but IDK something about Nathan is far worse to me. I mean all fundie men are full of themselves, they've been told since birth that they are more important and can control a woman's life because they were born with a dick. Law though as the years have gone by seems to have become VERY aware of how handsome he is -- he is the annoying social media whore who needs constant attention, needs to dominate every conversation, probably expects Tiff to fall all over him for being soooo handsome and soooo talented and fall all over herself for getting SUCH a handsome man who could have had anyone (in his mind and his mommy's mind). Yet in some ways that attention whoring is not THAT different from lots of millennial men (and women) -- all they want to do is stare at pictures of themselves and be the center of attention (not all millennials of course but the ones who are more social media obsessed). I mean it's not that different from Evan. And while I'm sure Law believes in the whole headship garbage, I can't recall seeing him assert his superiority over his sisters -- at least on the show. In fact he is the one that has raised an eyebrow at Nathan when he was picking on Michael's wedding dress and Tori's hair and was like WTF!? I feel like in regular life Law would be that frat bro in college who is friends -- at least surface level -- with everyone bc he just wants to party and have a good time with drinks in hand, not fight. Nathan OTOH has a more typical fundie attitude on display at all times. I'm sure this has something to do with being dumped by Ashley -- like how dare a WOMAN turn ME down, like he dug his heels in more re -- I am a MAN, women WILL listen to me. That being said I think these attitudes were always there. I mean he courted Ashley from around Christmas 2015 (bc I recall he asked at the Bryant Park Christmas tree in NYC) until about June 2016. Yet he as an ass re Michael's wedding dress in mid 2015, BEFORE he was even courting Ashley. And FWIW Tori's wedding hair thing was like 18 months after the breakup so it wasn't like 2 weeks after. I think he'll have definite expectations of Esther living however he wants. This isn't going to be a John type of husband who'll even say -- I want however many kids you want and let's be honest if Alyssa wanted to stop, he'd be THRILLED and running to go get condoms or a v. He may want a litter of kids to prove how much of a man he is. As someone said upthread, I do think he'll expect his wife to look GOOD -- i.e. drop that pregnancy weight ASAP. And I don't see him being a Chad who'll cook, clean, and raise the kids for Erin because he feels SOOOOO blessed to be with her. Nope she'll be expected to be chasing 4 kids, pregnant with #5 and still putting a full meal on the table and cleaning up after. It's interesting how people react to breakups. Like Nathan dug his heels in more to being a fundie man, headship etc. In contrast Zach softened and realized his parents were full of $hit on lots of issues and he ended up treating his wife like he's so lucky she wanted him etc. It'll be interesting to see where Trace lands.

So no IG official congrats today from Erin, Lawson, Trace or Tori?! Tori ok I get it -- she barely posts her own family's stuff on social media let alone her siblings. But Erin, Law and Trace are social media whores. I don't believe that by 6 pm today, they haven't had a chance to post a congrats for an engagement that they've now known about for 2 days!?

Lol he's been engaged for all of 2 days. Tiffany (Law's gf) posted a congrats on IG when they went public with it today and he responds just now with -- Lawson it's your turn. In normal life people say these things just kidding -- though even still usually not moments after your own engagement because you're too happy with your own relationship to even notice or compare to anyone else's -- but in this family you know it isn't kidding it's like -- whew the 27 year old who everyone thought would never find anyone has been engaged for all of 3 minutes, so now he can TOTALLY make his 28 year old brother feel like a loser for NOT having settled down yet.

Nice to see him acting like a normal 27 year old though. Goes to see his gf all the time without chaperones in tow. The pictures of them def suggest that they are kissing etc - maybe not sex - but still they aren't strangers physically. He's posted multiple pics with them kissing on the cheeks; a few of the Christmas pics last yr were them basically pelvic thrusting their bodies into each other; post engagement he's picking her up with his head pretty much in her breasts; and post engagement dancing with hands all over each other and faces so close there's no way they AREN'T kissing. Good for them.

Not sure who dressed Nathan for his engagement day in 95+ degree Orlando heat, but really?? He wears better suits to church on a regular Sunday. Guess he wanted to be memorable or maybe Esther has said she likes that suit? From the other thread -- yeah she's sweet and agreeable. Also a fundie from a big family though my sense is big is 6-9 siblings, not 18 siblings. They've only shown her on UP in one episode where he brought her home from Christmas to introduce her; seems he's been hanging at her place in PA as his family knew little about her. But yeah strikes me as that typical fundie wife who'll smile sweetly at him, which is what he needs. As we've seen for YEARS post break up with that NYC girl, he can be rude and pissy if a mere "girl" has an opinion so he needs a fundie wife. He's the one who at Michael's wedding shopping was going on and on and on about how some dress didn't look good. And then when Carlin (or Tori?) was trying out hairstyles for he wedding he was going on and on about how they HAD TO wear their hair down, that's what guys like, the guy would be soooo disappointed if the girl didn't wear her hair down at the wedding blah blah. Lawson -- who is hardly the model of politeness himself -- was stunned and tried to shut his brother up being like "if a woman asks how she looks, the ONLY acceptable answer is great, perfect . . . ." Nathan still didn't get it. On that UP episode they said they met/saw each other at a friend's wedding, exchanged numbers and texted and talked and like a week or 2 into it, he asked her to be his gf. She then told him pretty soon after that she wanted to do life with him. Given all that it seems like they've been together as bf/gf for a year or more. That's pretty long given that they professed their love for each other within weeks. He seems to spend a LOT of time in Pa with her. Good luck wedding planning - and doing life - with that one, Esther. Though I kid -- the Bates kids have done a decent job finding compatible matches. Annoying kids with annoying partners (Evan and Carlin), kids who hate their family with spouses who also don't want to hang out with the inlaws (Josie and Kelton) etc. so if they're the same fundie mentality and she truly believes in him as the headship, I think they'll be just fine and even happy.

So Nathan is engaged. Was wondering what was going on with that as he said he wanted to propose this spring and get married in the fall and we're coming up on summer. But it's done. Looks like he went to Pa, then brought her back to Tenn, and then they flew to Orlando Fl where he proposed in front of some lake that seems like it is on the property of a family friend and Alyssa and Carlin had set up giant letters saying "Marry Me." So kind of low key compared to recent engagements that involved jetting off to Maine or annoying scavenger hunts in Utah that went on for days. Seems like those other engagements were a little bit of -- do something big because UPTv will comp a lot of it. It seemed more like the sons in law acting like they were doing something big, when really it was UPTv paying for a lot of it. Whereas this seems a bit like what they'd do normally on their own without a TV show paying. IIRC Zach also went down to Fla and proposed on a beach. Might be a son vs. son in law thing.

How do we know Josiah looked up to Josh? It’s been so many years since Josh was on the show that I can’t even recall how he and Josiah interacted. Examples?

If there is another charge coming and it’s related to this - and not financial crime - I wonder if we’ll see an obstruction of justice charge against someone who helped Josh maybe destroying evidence after the 2019 raid (or more likely if they got wind of a raid hours before it happens which isn’t unheard of in a small town if you see authorities moving around that you’ve never seen). In that event it’s more likely to be one of the brothers than JB bc how much does JB know about technology? IDK what brothers hang with Josh. The show and social media have painted a picture of Josh being totally removed from the siblings’ lives but reality is we don’t know who hangs out with who. While I think the older brothers (JD, Joe) are thoroughly disgusted with Josh bc they understand what he did to their sisters, the cheating on Anna etc. The middle brothers were toddlers with he did stuff to the sisters and like preteens when he cheated on Anna. While some of them may have vague notions that he’s messed up, you know the sister stuff was never discussed with them when they were old enough to understand (or it was vague platitudes re messing up when he was a young teen and he’s sought the lords forgiveness) and the cheating on Anna - eh the devil led him astray when he left his mommy and daddy for the big city life. I could see one of those brothers helping in some way that’s obstruction. In any event this isn’t going to trial unless it’s JB&M or Josh overruling the lawyers’ advice. It’s federal court folks, verdicts must be unanimous. A jury with 12 members will necessarily have some women and some moms — I don’t see that demographic being like CP eh but the hash values on the images don’t match so maybe there’s spoliation of evidence blah blah. Some # of jurors vote guilty on CP bc it’s so visceral. All you need is 1 juror voting guilty and there goes Josh’s acquittal - then you’re looking at a mistrial and retrial or a plea deal after day after day of making headlines for the trial (granted the plea deal on the back end may not be bad bc USAO showed they couldn’t get a conviction but given that he’s on supervised release until trial lord knows what new evidence he gives them if he scores a phone/internet in the next 2-3 mos).

Yes they'd risk it. So much of what DOJ/DHS/USAOs pursue is about whatever their priorities are at this time -- so yeah CP is a priority but it's not like financial crime isn't, so yeah they'd pursue both not like on TV where you try to put a bow on one tidy case. It may not even be against Josh in which case you just have Josh on the 2 CP counts. If it's like one random financial fraud charge against Josh, you tack that on to a superseding indictment but say it's against Josh + another Duggar; then you try to make a motion to the judge for a split trial (assuming no plea) -- Josh's trial on CP goes; then the trials against Josh and whoever else for financial fraud goes. That way a jury empaneled on CP isn't suddenly wading thru tax records being like WTF!? Not confusing the jury is key.

Agree that this may be nothing but idle speculation from redditers who are HOPING for more. I'd find it hard to believe if we see charges in say days that it's anything occurring AFTER the bond hearing. (A) I think JB is not totally stupid like his son, so if he's doing something, he's stopped at least until the attention died down. (B) It's next to impossible timing wise to have a transaction happen around the time of the bond hearing, it gets turned over to USAO, they have enough time to get warrants, investigate, seat another grand jury and bring a new charge. I mean if it's something like that it's going to take weeks or likely months to come to light. It's more likely something that was already happening at the time of the arrest but they hadn't investigated it completely enough to get an indictment on it yet so they went ahead and grabbed Josh on the charges they had, continued investigating this other thing and now (if it's true) maybe they're ready to act on whatever this is.

Fed lawyer - yes different warrants. But if you've taken hardware to search for CP pursuant to a warrant and in doing so you see some shady financials, you bring in the US Atty's Office's (or DOJ's) financial fraud prosecutors to see what -- if anything they want to do; if they want to pursue it, you go back to court and seek out a different warrant. If that search turns up anything, that's a new grand jury to get another true bill of indictment -- which either becomes a superseding indictment if it's against Josh (you just add charges to his) or a new indictment if it's against a new person.