cereality

I have a feeling that 99% of her thoughts are consumed with - OMG I don't have a baby; I'm not a mom; I'm not a real woman and wife bc I'm not a mom and didn't make my husband a dad . . . . And because of that she doesn't even realize that all she does is fawn all over babies when she sees one. I mean literally EVERY event they're at, Michael HAS to have a baby the ENTIRE time; at Nathan's wedding, she's sitting there at the ceremony giving Maci a bottle?? You know her sisters are 100% fine with this bc who doesn't want to dump their kid for a few hours and hang with adults, but it's a bit over the top as far as Michael's socialization. It's fine to love kids, talk to them a bit at an event, be the aunt that invites them over for a special activity a few times a year, or the aunt that bakes a special bday cake for a niece/nephew that you are especially close to. BUT Michael you NEED to hang out with the grownups too. Like at the Christmas party there were plenty of pics with Bobby/Tori, Travis/Katie, Chad/Erin, Law/Nathan/Trace and their women, and of course the single teens sitting around without kids as I assume the kids were off playing. They really couldn't hang out with them or find ANYTHING to talk to them about??

I tend to agree with this. Alyssa seems almost proud of Allie when she talks about school?? Like when she was doing that filter experiment - she like most 6 year olds was like it isn't working, oh well - and Alyssa was the one who was like no it will work, don't stop. And she also posted a video with Allie reading to her sisters about plants and photosynthesis and how they take in carbon dioxide and make oxygen and Alyssa was the one saying "that's so cool." I almost wondered if this is the first time ALYSSA is learning this stuff "formally" - beyond whatever mom told her that plants are good so she thinks it's a positive that her six year old knows things that Alyssa is now learning at 27. Kind of the way Jill Duggar is benefiting from her kid going to public elementary school and now they read all those books she was denied as a kid - Boxcar Children; Hardy Boys; Nancy Drew etc. I do think Alyssa - wanting to be more mainstream and seeing sisters like Carlin being more mainstream bc she married Evan whose nieces take ballet etc. but Evan's family is still Godly - is open to and really wants her kids to experience things that she never did -- whether that's ballet or softball or soccer or science. I'm not saying she'd be ok with her kid going to med school and being in school and training until age 35 and not marrying. But I think she is open to her kids going to Christian school (and let's be real that'd allow her 6 more hrs/day of navel gazing); participating in sports or dance; having friends from school; going to a college like the one that Bobby and Kelton went to etc. She never had these things and when she had a chance to have some of them - like Crown College - she did one semester - if that - while not even really making too many college friends or engaging in any life there bc she was 1000% focused on getting a ring from John ASAP and wasn't willing to delay that in any way. I mean even her sisters - while not getting a great education - all completed Crown; Tori ended up "delaying" marriage a bit to finish school; Erin completed after marriage; and some like Tori, Carlin, and Josie were really into hanging out at school, making friends there etc.. In her heart of hearts Alyssa may regret that she chased the ring SO HARD instead of just taking an extra 18-24 months for herself but it's what she thought she HAD TO do as a woman - get married and make a baby yesterday. More and more John strikes me as a guy who lives life out of obligation. He has all these girls - he's obligated to feed and clothe them, teach them the Bible, and make them Godly housewives who are off his payroll by ages 18-22 so he can be done with this responsibility by his mid 50s. In his mind, soccer, softball, ballet, or science don't help those causes. The only thing that helps those causes cooking to develop wife skills; take care of younger sisters to develop mommy skills; church and honestly what else do girls need? He could 100% care less if a season of soccer or once a week ballet lessons would make the kid happy; in his mind life isn't about happy and these girls have millions of blessings from God and their parents and should be grateful. If there was a son - he'd likely have him starting to help with manual labor tasks to prep him for the HVAC business bc again what other dreams could a son have besides the same family business that dad and uncles are in? Though for a boy he'd at least allow sports bc raising a boy = making him manly and how does that happen if he can't throw a football??

While surrogacy seems like an obvious thing for someone with 37 sisters, I really don't think you can ask someone to be a surrogate until they are for sure done expanding their own families. In this case they are ALL looking to have MANY more kids; any pregnancy could be your last - if it causes some kind of damage where you can't get pregnant or carry a child again; can you imagine the lifelong resentment if a sister carries a baby for Michaela, something dire happens, and that means she'll "only" ever have 2-5 kids, when she was planning 7+?? Plus I don't think any of the sisters are healthy enough that a dr would allow surrogacy on top of their own yearly pregnancy - Josie/Tori/Carlin all have various clotting/blood disorders; Alyssa has heart problems; and Erin has had significant reproductive surgeries. Honestly a better idea for a surrogate could be Kelly's 2 younger adopted sisters - both in their 30s and not fundie so likely they're having 2-3 kids max; plus Michael seems to have an actual relationship with them as she's talked about how she calls them etc. so it's not like Kelly and co. who ignore the adopted African American sisters. Hate to say this but if they aren't going to pursue IVF hard - as in as many cycles as it takes to make at least one baby - or adopt, they REALLY should move away from her family. I get it - she is crazy for babies so it's normal for her to go to any family event and have a child on her hip the whole time; it's normal for her to be like Erin's kid has a birthday coming up and Erin isn't up to it so I'll make a cake. No one is forcing her. She gets her kid fix this way. And the kids genuinely love her and Brandon; Erin posted a video yesterday as they were getting ready to go to the family Christmas party asking her 2 year old who she wanted to see at the party - kid immediately goes Michael and Brandon. Like EVERY pic from yesterday's Christmas party showed Michael with a baby?? I mean there are even pics of the other couples hanging out w/o kids - prob bc their own kids are off playing - and instead of being with them, Michael and Brandon are with the kids?? It's a bit much. BUT I strongly suspect that after spending time with these kids - she goes home and is broken probably for days about how they don't have their OWN kid. Getting a kid fix is one thing but being around kids a few times a wk, every week for YEARS on end - bc there will be MANY more Bates babies in the local area as Josie and Carlin and Whit aren't done yet - is taking something away mentally. They ought to consider a move to Michigan. I don't think all his siblings live there and for the ones that do, they'll have a "reasonable" 4-6 kids and move on; and as those kids get older it'll be easier for Michael. Because I honestly think she's broken about not having a BABY or toddler - she'll be much less broken when she's around Brandon's 12 and 15 year old nieces and nephews. Sure she'll always wonder what might have been but it won't be the same as having Nathan or Katie or Lawson's or Addie/Ellie/Callie's babies on her hip for the next two decades. I wish they'd get over themselves and do IVF instead of Brandon's "pray harder" routine. Or adopt. Domestic adoptions are actually VERY expensive - bc there's a huge "premium" for white babies; but if they're willing to go international or in the US African American, it's totally doable. And now with Tiff in the family, there are going to be half Asian babies - is it THAT big of a deal if Michael and Brandon add a few fully Asian grandkids to the mix?? Hate to say it but in this family IDK if I'd go African American - I mean if you want a baby sure - but I can totally imagine Kelly treating those grandkids differently.

Well A&J are certainly raising those kids right per fundie standards. Alyssa posted a video of the kids playing - looks like she’s in the doorway and the kids didn’t notice. Allie acting as the officiant as she has the other two hold hands and take wedding vows - taking Travis as her wedded wife (lol Trav’s manhood is being threatened by the kids); promising to obey and serve god; and promising to have a cute baby. 🙄 I realize kids that age play wedding + weddings have been the excitement in that family for the last 2 mos. But given who they are - gross. You know John will be internally SO proud - his girls 100% get that they MUST marry and have kids even at ages 3-6. None of his girls will want to be spinsters or career professionals. IDK guess I’d feel differently about it if they played wedding this afternoon but excitedly talked about playing for the WNBA or building tall buildings this evening and the parents encouraged all of those dreams. Don’t see that happening in that house as J doesn’t allow Allie to take ballet nor allow the 2nd kid in soccer or softball even though she’s athletic. Feel bad for kid #2 who has said she’d want to be a dentist — I get it she’s 5 and probably changes her mind weekly. But sad that it’s not even a possibility and all A&J will ensure she becomes is a wife + mommy; I mean if you’re born w a vag, what other dreams could you ever have??

Last day in Mexico for the honeymooners. We get it Trav, this is YOUR woman but holding her in what looks like a chokehold looks bad - whether you are conveying MY woman or just trying to show off your biceps/forearms on camera. And add to that making fun of her for being in "full depression mode" - it's just not a good look. While he's "looking forward to all life stages" - which I guess means regular life post honeymoon - she's depressed to be leaving but has missed her family sooo much. Uh it's been 10 days?! Though I guess when you've never been away ever like college or job or anything, that's a LONG time even though you were doing it. And for those on here betting that they'd go back for I Love You Day - nope they're headed back to Tenn from Mexico and THEN go to NJ after a few days?! Time to cut the cord Katie - though I am guessing this is under the guise of, I still have to pack up/transport my stuff so let's go to Tenn, we'll see my family before Christmas and then drive to our home in NJ where we'll spend actual Christmas with your family.

Layla's mother's junk food tour continues. Carlin posted a video of outlet mall shopping with mom, bestie Whit and Addie with Layla and then she goes - there's Layla living her best life as she sat in her stroller with an enormous bag of Cheetos at freaking 12 pm - lunch time?! And then tonight C&E decorating ginger bread houses and E is squeezing frosting from the bag directly into the kid's mouth and the kid's hands/feet/mouth are covered in icing and candy. I do think some of this is how Carlin grew up. Unlike other fundies I do think they had enough to eat but it was in the form of full casserole type meals for lunch and dinner, I think there was little in the way of snacks/extras. So now she wants that stuff ALL THE TIME AND doesn't want to deprive her kid. That means she has to have a Sbux in hand at all times and her kid gets a constant supply of Doritos, Cheetos, Sour Patch Kids, cake pops and whatever else. I get she feels like she missed out on snacks but does she not get that kid snacks are cheese sticks, raisins, fruit slices, yogurt, etc. NOT lollipops and cheetos? I mean her sisters were similarly deprived of snacks and yet we never see Josie, Alyssa or Erin's kids with even 10% of the junk Layla eats; I mean Alyssa is making meals out of cheese and crackers and her kids are always grabbing for the fruit options and Erin indulges her kids with home baked muffins with fruit?! Meanwhile Layla walked down the aisle at Katie's wedding with some kind of cookie/cracker in hand. I get it - you bribe kids to behave at weddings - but just shows how much that kid responds to snacks. And the other part of this is how E&C themselves eat, they don't cook/don't want to cook and dinners are some combo of fast food 2-3 times/wk, either parents' house 1-2 times/wk, and restaurants like Cracker Barrel or Waffle House the rest of the time. Fine don't cook but honestly it takes 10 min to give your kid eggs and toast for dinner; pasta with jarred sauce with spinach or zucchini sautéed in; grilled cheese with a veggie side; or rice and lentils/beans. I mean Josie's kid is 6 months older than Layla and the difference is noticeable. Maybe it's just that 6 months is a LONG time in kid development terms but that kid is growing like a weed and talks a ton - like sentences, not just words repeated here and there; I have to imagine at least a small part of it is that food for her is always like rice and beans; chicken and rice; chicken or steak tacos deconstructed; blueberries; eggs etc. I get that E&C are both short so their kid will be too but I don't get the sense that Kelton is particularly tall either - maybe a few inches taller than Evan but not tall like John or even Bobby.

It would be very unusual for a wife or parent to testify at sentencing bc of course they're gonna say OMG my husband/son deserves not to be in prison for a long time. If the defense wants anyone testifying on his behalf, you'd want it to be someone that is more "distant" from him talking about how he's learned his lesson or is such an upstanding community member - which is obv not an argument you can make for this kind of defendant but it's something people bring up in white collar type cases. So if they wanted testimony it'd have to be like a church person, the Rebers, maybe a much younger brother who didn't really grow up with him who could talk about how he's such an upstanding business man and has taught him so much personally and he's never seen him be inappropriate. And also no judge is taking promises from a wife that she'll watch him once released bc judges don't live in fundie land where you are eternally married and marriage>>> kids -- any judge in his/her right mind would be like yeah that wife won't be around in 5+ years when he's released, she'll be out in 5 months. Anything we hear from Anna/JB/Michelle/any supportive siblings beyond like 1-2 who'd testify - if there are any/Josh's kids would come in the form of letters to the judge, which will be openly available on the docket, except for his kids' letters most likely as they are minors and usually you'd file those under seal. Gov't witnesses are usually much easier - FBI type person testifying that they've done this for x years and this is the most depraved thing they've seen; psychologist type witness testifying that those into hurt core could be violent (IDK if that's true just saying someone could make that point if true); and impacted witnesses. Here the kids in the CSAM aren't know but if Jill really wanted to, she could testify broadly about what he did affected her life, how it wasn't handled at all by her parents, and how it's safer for his kids and all kids that he go away for a long time. Jill is the only sibling that I see who maybe would want to testify for the gov't - the others even those that agree with the verdict I think want to put this behind them or are too intimidated by the judicial process or frankly just too broken/exhausted. Generally at sentencing the judge will limit the number of witnesses and the point of the testimony is NOT - judge this is how we'll control him so he doesn't need prison (bc then you're admitting he needs constant guarding that only a prison can provide). The point is more - judge make the prison time short bc this guy is needed on the outside by his wife/kids (never seen that argument work); is an upstanding citizen - again not for CSAM; or look judge he's already learning his lesson and thus doesn't need to be in prison for that long. That third argument is one that he COULD have made if he had gone straight to prison post arraignment rather than posting bond and living with the Rebers and making babies; he'd have ~8 months of prison under his belt and his defense could have argued - look he's humbled himself and gone to prison ASAP even though he could've posted bond; he's been a model prisoner while there - he avails himself to all therapies available; he studies for his GED or takes college classes or whatever; he goes to Bible study 6 nights/wk and is generally just a delight. THAT often makes judges be like - hmm this guy gets it, maybe he doesn't need 8 yrs in prison, we can do 5 or 6.

Where are people getting details - like which kid it was; what road; what time; what Jana said? Are plea documents available? Is there reporting somewhere?

Apparently on a road that runs parallel to their property - so not on the main road right out front but one road away from that. For a 2 year old that's FAR - they're short enough that cars may not see them; they just dart across the road not even sensing they should look for cars etc.

Right but JANA is not their mother. Their mother very likely was off effing Joshie and making the kids Aunt Jana's problem.

Pretty sure Josh wasn't allowed to be home. When he was out on bond, he HAD to say at the Rebers and Anna could visit him and he could see the kids with Anna's supervision - I assume AT the Rebers or some other neutral place (he couldn't come home bc that home has 100000 other kids on the property and the order prohibited contact w/ any kid that wasn't his). Though now that we see how Anna supervised -- yeah that's a problem whether it was at the Rebers, TTH, or in the warehouse. Like she probably gave him PLENTY of time with some of the kids bc she had her hands full with the youngest kids. I do agree though - all 7 kids need to be seen by drs. - mental health drs but also non fundie/cult drs dealing with physical health. Yet I 100% do not see Anna allowing that sort of thing - drs asking questions about whether anyone has done anything down there or looking down there. How are people getting all this specific info - like which kid bolted; what Jana said etc.? Who is reporting on this? So I assume in addition to Jinger/Jill/Joy/Jessa, Jason and James are also opposed to Joshie. James hasn't said anything but he hangs out with the Dillards a lot and I think has an open mind relatively speaking -- i.e. he gets his father is full of $hit. Not to say Jana, JD, Joseph, Josiah aren't opposed but they pretty much can't say as they are fully reliant on JB for his money. I mean so are Jason and James as I can't imagine Jason owns his own company for real w/o JB's help but he's young enough with no family that he probably feels ok saying eff you to JB -- if JB kicks him out/takes his business, he'll figure something out; for all we know Jason and James feel like if it all falls apart on them, they'll go stay with Jill and figure something out - maybe Jill/Derek have expressly even offered that. They aren't nearly as beholden as their older siblings, nor do they have as much time left living in the TTH as the younger siblings. Interesting that Justin is the only one of that group siding with Joshie - I have a feeling Hiliaria being in his ear bc she doesn't want him to cut off HER "fame" by him cutting off HIS family has something to do with it. I also assume Jason and James may feel some loyalty to Joy Anna here - they are only 2.5-3.5 years younger than her and she grew up a tomboy with the pack of brothers that are her age; she grew up with them in a way that Jill/Jinger/Jessa didn't.

So who is Trace's new girl? He just posted an IG pic with - blessed to call you mine - and all his sisters are doing the "omg best couple ever" BS. Hope this one has less personality than Chaney. Chaney dared to NOT want to jump right in and act like his sisters and mommy were her best friends and that she'd of course want to model for the boutique and move to Tenn and live his family's life. She dared to require her husband to move away from his mommy and sisters and to Texas. She dared to be good at sports and beat him at games multiple times leaving him whining about - oh she's so much better than me at everything - and then she wouldn't kiss his @$$ to make him feel like superman as Gil advised Carlin to do with Evan in their vows, nor would she purposefully lose the next time. I mean it's only been under 2 years, we know HE hasn't grown in any way. So hopefully he's just found a more subservient girl.

Conflicting reporting so far - People is saying she is NOT taking a plea and will be at a bench trial in Jan. Others - US Weekly; Daily Mail etc. - are saying she HAS taken a plea (i.e. admitted guilt) and will appear in court in Jan - usually you do appear in court after taking a plea to actually enter the plea -- i.e. Yes judge, I am admitting my guilt because I am guilty, I am here freely and of my own volition to admit guilt etc. People could be getting it wrong - it's very likely she initially (upon arrest and arraignment - if she was arrested) pled guilty. THEN in the intervening months at some point she decided to take a plea and now that Jan bench trial date is just the date the plea will be entered.

Do we know where the siblings fall - i.e. in line with Jill/Derick or with JB/Michelle? I mean Joy & Austin obviously seem anti-JB/Michelle at this point, but I do think Austin is the anti-intellectual type who wouldn't be ok with therapy because "we" don't need that, "we" have God. BUT I do hope this opens the door back up for Jill and Joy to be friendly again - not just occasional social media likes but like Friday night pizza at J&D's house and the kids can play; not suggesting that Jill can be an alternate for real therapy but I do think in a family where they grew up with so many siblings and the sisters basically raised the kids, that connection being strong is important. But like what about Jessa? I assume bc they live in a JB owned house/income comes from JB, she won't dare go against him? What about Jinger - she's been totally uninvolved here but it's not like she relies on JB for $? Jana I imagine HAS to go with JB/Michelle - and with JB/Michelle essentially probably broken now by their golden child being in prison, guess she and Laura will raise the kids. I imagine the younger Duggar brothers stand with JB - bc they've been brainwashed over the yrs to believe the family persecution thing and told this was NBD and they weren't around or were babies when their older sisters were molested - so probably Justin and Jason and all the younger kids. Though IDK James seems to have more of a mind of his own and seems to enjoy J&D's company. What about JD, Joseph, Jeremiah, Jedidiah, Josiah? All were absent from the trial IIRC. JD and Joseph disavowed Josh as an older brother years ago so I imagine they're happy justice was served - but can't say since they are all on JB's payroll either for housing, planes etc.; Josiah probably is in the same boat. Jer - IDK about him - he may just be praying this doesn't eff up his courtship and his chance to get out though ultimately he's reliant on JB's $ too and Jed - he seems like he believes the JB hype and probably 100% thinks it's his family being persecuted. It's not like Jill and Derick are rich so they can't do much but I do hope their home becomes a landing pad for any Duggar who sees the light and decides he wants to make his own way/needs an out - as he goes to trade school or pursues some employment that isn't with daddy; I think it'd particularly be useful for the brothers in that 19-24 year old range where they kind of get it way more than the younger kids but are young enough that they can set up a life that isn't totally beholden to daddy.

Haven't been reading here though have kept up with the daily trial developments, so sorry if some of this has been said. Federal attorney myself - Josh and daddy don't get to pick which federal prison he ends up in, frankly even the judge doesn't get to pick - at most he can "recommend" Josh be placed closer to family etc. but that recommendation isn't always taken; Bureau of Prisons decides. Prisons are packed and there is only so much staffing. CSAM defendants need to be in protective custody esp those that are D list celebrities + conditions of prison will almost certainly include some kind of counseling so he'll go to whatever prison can provide these things even if it's 100s of miles away. And no there are no conjugal visits in federal prison - so if J&A didn't make baby 8 last night, they'll be waiting 10ish years - and by that time who knows bc Anna will be 43 - not that she won't be ready and willing to have this loser's 8th baby. Kids can typically visit fed prison and I actually don't think that varies based on whether their charge is CSAM - so look for Anna to be dragging these kids to Josh every so often. I'm thrilled he was remanded to custody straight from court. Anna and JB NEEDED to see this douche in handcuffs to REALLY have it set in that he did something wrong beyond just the usual oh it's just porn, just a sin NBD. I mean I'm sure they think family persecution blah blah but at some level they needed that shocking imagery. It wouldn't have happened if he had been released pending sentencing and then after sentencing given a date to report in his lawyer's SUV in the wee hours of the morning. And now with any appeal (which I think is just talk) - who cares - he's sitting in prison while that happens?! Shock has set in for Anna and I think JB - and probably Justin who cried at the sentencing. Monster Josh is still waiting for it to set in - have you seen the SMILING pic from today's mug shot?? WTF!? Does he know what he's in for in prison?? Usually lawyers do prep you for how bad it'll be esp for a child sex crime BUT in this case I wouldn't be shocked if Daddy and Joshie would not hear of it bc this 1000% was a mistake and of course the jury would agree with them. Good for Jill and Derick! That statement was 100% direct - yes they have been lied to for years and now they've seen the truth for themselves. I will say Jill walking into court yesterday had her - don't eff with me - face; she looked a little broken/exhausted walking out but still ok. Joy OTOH has looked BROKEN for the last 2-3 days. I really hope she is ok/doing whatever she needs to be ok.

Well she has E&C as parents for starters. But other than that she was born with a hole in her heart. It's the type of thing that does go away on its own/close for a % of kids but if it doesn't they do surgery to close it around age 2-3. People are who aren't Evan and Carlin wouldn't even think about entertaining another pregnancy until that child is at least 2-3 and there is confirmation that it has closed/no surgery is needed bc in case surgery is needed, it probably makes sense to not have a newborn along for the ride if you can help it and to focus all your energy and resources on that child. I mean maybe some people would entertain a 2nd pregnancy but usually that's ppl who are 35-40+ and the window on siblings is closing - not people aged 23-26 who act like teen parents to begin with. Recently they also said that the drs. are concerned that Layla is falling off her growth curve and they referred her for blood work for thyroid and other things. E&C got that blood work done a month or two after the fact - bc Nathan's wedding; Katie's 27 wedding showers; Evan's fam vacation and whatever else couldn't be cut short by a few minutes to focus on the kid. They didn't reveal the results but when asked C said that there's nothing to be done right now but the drs. want to watch certain things. Fingers crossed that means nothing is actually wrong and if they just feed the child actual meals with proteins/carbs/vegetables, she'll be back on the growth curve - of course first that means laying off the doritos, cake pops, soda or chocolate milk in her bottle etc. that they are constantly feeding her. They act like she’s one of their teen friends instead of their baby - non stop junk food, no schedule so she’s out with them at 11 pm or midnight when they suddenly decide yay game night at Whit’s house will be sooo fun and NBD bc she’ll sleep in until 10 am w Carlin. I mean she falls asleep at these various outings and they put her in her own bed later, but there’s a reason other parents give their kids a balanced dinner at 5 pm and bed by 7 - it’s not like it doesn’t crimp those parents’ style but they do it bc they’re parents.

They'll see her family sometime in the Christmas-NYE timeframe too - even if not actually on Christmas and yes certainly I Love You Day. I fully expect a pregnancy announcement by I Love You Day - with a baby due just before their first anniversary. Frankly a pregnancy will give her something to obsess about + a baby will give her something to do -- she has zero life interests besides her sisters and it's not like she's going to be working or even making friends with the SILs in NJ. It'll be interesting to see how marriage is overall for them. I feel like super young guys who marry + live near mommy/daddy are VERY invested in running a home/marriage just like Daddy. From the looks of it Travis's family seems like they like nice things - McMansion; often going to NYC to see shows/nice dinners; vacations. These things cost $ and while they have $, like anyone else I doubt they have endless money to do absolutely anything they want. I do wonder if they are more "buckled down" than the Bates girls of late -- i.e. just bc you're leaving the house doesn't mean you get a Sbux every time; just bc you don't want to cook doesn't mean we get takeout 5 nights a week etc. Katie always has a fresh manicure + Sbux in hand + is the one that wastes money sending pizzas and cookies via Doordash to Alyssa (which suggests she gets them for herself too). While I'm sure she'll try to supplement with social media income, reality is Alyssa and Carlin live in lower cost of living areas + are supplementing the salaries of an HVAC guy and an electrician apprentice for their fun stuff, not the salary of a 20 yr old who may or may not work some at daddy's church. And given that Trav seems rigid + will be paying for trips back to Tenn regularly (even if just Spirit, it isn't free), I wonder if he will be the type who is like - wait no you need to grocery shop + cook, we aren't eating out nightly; or I'm not sacrificing a trip to NYC that'll cost a few hundred just so we can grab $10 worth of coffee 50 times. You also wonder if daddy will be in his ear about things as he's not even a grown man yet, regardless of the fact that he's having sex; daddy may be on him about paying down the mortgage faster than required (if he has one - if daddy bought him the house in cash, then it may be paying back daddy faster than required), saving etc.

Interesting you mention entitlement - I grew up in the town right next door to Travis (and still go there now bc my family is there); if he had gone to public school we would have been grads of the same high school. YES the area is VERY entitled in that well to do white way; the area is cheaper to live in (way way cheaper) than the NYC suburbs of NJ, so money goes much further than it does in the rest of the state and yeah people are pretty entitled about it - esp the well to do white crowd with the McMansions (which is what he grew up in). Maybe Bobby was smitten with Tori for a bit - I only recall that it had 100% worn off by the engagement as he was ready to just throw the ring at her. But yeah Z and Chad are head over heels for their wives still and thus will do anything - playing nanny to the kids while the wife pretends to be 22 and childless or working at a dress shop; building whatever dumbass things Erin wants or taking care of a farm/zoo bc she wants her kids to have that etc. IDK about John he seems OVER it but maybe he's more over family life/young kids and just doesn't want more - he seems thrilled when it's just him and Alyssa. Travis OTOH barely seems interested NOW - when you're supposed to be super eager and in love?? He has seemed annoyed with her from the start - from her making fun of him in front of the whole family for not liking ice cream; to her smashing cake on his suit at his family's house; to the house tour video where he was surly with her a few times - I think one time he even told her to be quiet/wait a minute as she was talking/complaining and he was trying to show the basement stairs!? He definitely strikes me as a young guy who has built up in his mind that marriage will be 100% HIS WAY (his family's way) and Katie will just follow - without accounting for the fact that as Katie follows bc she has no choice, she will REALLY annoy him with her whining and helplessness. IDK his family composition - I think it's 1 brother 1 sister both married/about to be married? So that's 2 SILs for Katie. Here's the thing about NJ people - we aren't a super warm bunch to begin with, nor very patient, though we will form tight friendships with people we like and respect. If she goes in there being a Bates girl - i.e. whining about every little thing from OMG it's so cold in NJ, it's still 65 in Tenn; soooo much traffic here; sooo expensive here; what do you mean Travis expects me to cook, IDK how to work an oven -- I don't see the respect thing happening. And IDK how "worldly" they are. I know they're fundie but part of me thinks a NJ fundie is still different than a Tenn or Ark fundie -- like I have to imagine they watch some TV/news etc. even if it's local Philadelphia news and Fox. So again she goes in there being like Congress hmm IDK how that works, I think my mom said something about it when I was 12 . . . well that's another hurdle in getting respect. And without respect it'll be VERY hard to have genuine friendships with the SILs or get anything beyond the surface level "we love Trav so of course we love his wife." Dumb question - does Travis WORK? I assume he has a made up gig at dad (grandad?'s) church? Because we haven't of him being in trade school or anything like the other sons in law. What do you do for health insurance when you marry at 20?? I know you can be on your parents' plan until 26 but IDK if your wife or eventual kids can? Medicaid? God will protect?

Katie did look beautiful but maybe it's just me - she looked NOTHING like her actual self. Like she was SO made up to look graceful/beautiful (which she is anyway) that she looked like a different woman to me. Travis looked like he just showed up to pick up his date to senior prom. Good luck to these two. I've said it all along Bobby and Tori 2.0. He just doesn't seem in love to me -- just wanting to get some and get on with the life requirements of wife + house + kids. And not only does he not seem to love her, he seems affirmatively annoyed by her and her personality. He and his whole family seem more reserved and serious, she is a moron who thinks it's hysterical to giggle about ice cream and pizza and throw cake on his suit and go on and on about how she has NO idea how mashed potatoes are made. Though unlike Bobby, in this case I don't think Travis is the one who will "make it work," I think KATIE is the one who will have to live unhappy and make it work. He's not leaving his family or NJ no matter how much she whines or even after baby #1 overwhelms here by fall 2022 - so HE's the one who'll have his family and friends. She's the one who will have to go along with people who just aren't screaming and giggling and maybe even talking about semi intelligent things (for fundies anyway). And sorry but these fundie families will never not confuse me, nor cease to be gross. There's a video out (IDK who posted it but all the duggar/bates fan accounts on IG have it) when they're leaving and someone screaming "kiss her, kiss her." He does and someone (maybe Law?) screams out "that was a GOOD one." Uh he looks like an 8th grader kissing his first girlfriend, he has to hold her head so she doesn't flinch/he doesn't miss" but thanks for assessing the kiss for us. Then as they are going down the line saying bye, they totally walk by Travis's parents to get to G&K. He doesn't hug mom or even shake dad's hand though, nor does Katie - maybe bc they'll see them in NJ in a week, IDK but acknowledge them!? But then straight into G&K's arms for hugs for both with loud "love yous" and as they move past Gil towards the car, Gil says to Katie clear as day "don't worry." Ah yes dad don't worry I'm very excited to be penetrated for 2 seconds in the next 20 min, I'm not worried at all but thanks for thinking of me . . . .

Apparently they are living in Arkansas - per a IG post from Esther yesterday saying "heading home to Arkansas." Unless she means home is wherever bc they are in their home at all times? In any event seems like they're staying in Arkansas at least for a bit. I'm guessing they're either paying for a spot at an RV park or are on one of Jim Bob's unused properties since Nathan is buddy buddy with a number of the Duggar brothers.

Dare I say it but is Travis’s family Covid conscious? The ceremony was in some space that was open on all sides with just that fabric over top and Tiffany posted a reception set up pic - outdoors. We also saw their wedding shower in NJ was outdoors too. I mean we all know the Bates didn’t insist on this, I wonder if the Clarks did? They’re from NJ where people are taking this seriously - like even non serious ppl living their life/trusting God are more serious about it than the Bates. Because usually Dec doesn’t scream outdoor wedding to me. They got lucky with a 70 degree sunny day but it just as easily could’ve been 50 and cloudy - which is how the forecast is going forward.

How are these idiots not sick of this wedding already? They're legit acting like this is an only sibling that'll get married or 1 of like 3 weddings their fam will have so they MUST make a big deal. Get over it, you guys have like 2 weddings/yr!? After Alyssa's bitching yesterday re "oh joy" I have to watch my own damn kids all day, you're right today was all praises for John. I hope John is ok though, he looks exhausted. I'm sure it's just been a long few months with South Carolina; Nathan's wedding in Pa; Katie's shower in NJ; Alyssa off to Miami; hosting Thanksgiving; and now this and oh yeah he works a real job too -- but he looks TIRED. Lately you're really starting to see him age and he's only 32. In the car she's all gushing about dad of the year and this time John was like yeah oh joy I love weddings 🙄. And REALLY Alyssa, do you REALLY need to sleep over at the venue with the other bridesmaids the night before the wedding? She gushed about how he's taking the kids straight from the dinner and dealing with them at night and then getting them dressed and bringing them to the wedding. So guess Alyssa gets another night of beauty sleep, another night away from the kids, and will get to have her hair and makeup done in peace. I mean that's great but then when people want that sort of life - they don't have kids every 18 mos!? She gives me Michelle Duggar vibes -- LOVES the babies when she can tote them around like a purse and their cuteness is somehow attributable to her as she posts IG videos of them being all "say hi omg can you say hi" to the potato that sits there not walking or talking. And then after that she's like ok done with this kid. Yet we all know they're not done procreating - esp given that Whit and Carlin have boys recently, you KNOW she's desperate to have a boy and a spare. Yet this is not a woman who needs any more kids. I can see why they're training Ally to be sister mom. Sure right now she really probably can't help John tomorrow dressing her sisters - though even still she can fetch everyone's outfits and help put shoes on while he dresses the next kid. But say by the time Addie or Ellie get married in another 5-6 years, she'll be completely responsible for getting all the Webster kids ready and out the door on time. And as expected we got the requisite Carlin & Evan gushing about OMG memories we got married here TWO whole years ago and now here we are with OUR kid and another on the way - cue Evan dancing w/ Layla on the stupid patio. I saw NO pics of Erin/Chad or Bobby/Tori at the rehearsal - certainly they must have attended? Though I guess not required since they aren't in the wedding.

Maybe it's just me or that I've seen these types of trials but I'm not at all shocked at what Josh was looking at. What did people think it was?? If anyone wants to read it, I think the Sun just has 1 sentence about it in the timeline but there is a separate article that comes up if you google. What I am surprised by (but shouldn't be) is the continuous exchanging of pleasantries with this monster. Ok Derick is sitting behind him and is also a lawyer who will at some point in his career appear in this court - he acted professional yesterday and shook his hand and smiled at dumbass Josh and his "nice to meet you." And ok maybe brother Justin feels the need to go up there and say hi. But really Claire and Justin's MIL need to chit chat with him?? Like if you're so worried about being rude - exchange hellos with Anna and assume you've now spoken to the couple and be done with it. But people here are right Justin, Claire, and hanger oner MIL 100% believe this is their fam being prosecuted by the liberals blah blah so Josh hasn't done anything REALLY wrong. And they were too coward to stick around to find out what it was really about - bc it'd blow their head in the sand theory. Justin/Claire/MIL showed up when they were talking technical stuff like partitions and Tor, likely did not even grasp 1% of it, and left with their theory in tact - oh please this is just a "computer crime" NBD, they're just harassing my bro -- hence the huge thumbs up on the way out the door. Austin and Joy and Derick OTOH get it - though that could just be bc of their wives' experience and also bc Derick didn't grow up as sheltered as fundies and has gone to law school so it isn't shocking to him that in fact yes these crimes occur A LOT and no it isn't just gov't entrapment.

Just read the day's live updates from the Sun. OMG Joshie is a moron and him and JB are both morons for not agreeing with their attorneys who I'm sure have told them millions of times the evidence is stacked up against him, he needs to take a plea. Seriously in a case where the defense is supposedly - this is just a dumb hick with a homeschool education he doesn't know anything about technology, all this is a big mistake we have to find out who put CP on his devices - this dude AGREED to talk with Homeland Security when they showed up and told them: (i) he's familiar with peer to peer tech; (ii) knows torrent tech but really then brings up Tor which is the dark web so now he's told them he's on the dark web; (iii) tells them he needs the dark web to sell cars (yeah bc anonymous car sales are a thing); (iv) asks if his IP address is marked; (v) asked if marking the IP address can narrow down which device they were looking at; (vi) asking if IP was suggesting a download or upload of CP AND IS TOLD BY THEM MORE THAN ONCE to be quiet and that they are there to work!? And then after that busts out the - I'm not denying guilt but I won't incriminate myself. Uh you already did doofus. When they asked if you'd interview with them AND you knew you were doing illegal things why was the answer anything but -- I'll reach out to my lawyer and he'll set up the interview, thanks!?! And then LEAVE because they had said he was free to leave the lot at any time -- he didn't need to stay there chit chatting with them in their truck nor while they pulled stuff off devices and oh yeah they were audio recording all the chit chat bc they had the warrant to do that!??! That's basically a summary of the day for anyone else who didn't have time to follow in real time.

Court is a weird and stressful thing. It's not like Derick went in there being like oh I'll buddy up with Anna. It likely just happened maybe after one of the breaks where he saw her in the hallway looking lost/overwhelmed, they exchanged a smile, maybe she asked him some innocuous question about court and he was like - it won't kill me to be nice to her. And yes it is very likely he doesn't personally blame her for anything. While he obviously has issues with Josh and JB/Michelle, we haven't seen him be mean to siblings/siblings in law; I mean Justin still hangs out at their house and went to his law school graduation, we've seen Jana stop by at one of the kid's birthdays etc; they went to Justin's wedding when they easily could have skipped it bc it wasn't local. The stuff that happened to his wife pre-dates Anna by years. As for Anna staying with Josh despite this and having another kid with him, at worst Derick may think - her marriage, her business, I don't want to know. At best though he may think - she is just as uneducated and brainwashed as my wife was, she had 6 kids with him, where can she even go, of course she has to play the game and dance to JB and Josh's tune as sick as they are. Derick isn't fundie and when he married in I really think he thought that they were just a more Godly version of his family -- I don't think he understood until after marriage just how uneducated his wife is, how brainwashed she was, how she doesn't understand basic things bc she was never taught -- so now it's very possible he looks at girls like Anna (and maybe Jana etc.) and feels sorry for them being stuck. Not to say he can do anything about it, but I think he can still smile and say hi in court and sit next to them.