Garnett7

Yes, this! But really it's all shippers across the board -- Billy/Flint, Silver/Flint, Vane/Eleanor. I think they're all setting themselves up for a fall and then cry and scream when it happens about how they were "misled" and "queer-baited". No, you're not. That Flint/Silver scene was the least shippy thing I've ever seen. It ended with veiled threats from both parties. They're not getting together. Ever. No more than Billy/Flint are because Billy isn't secretly in love with Flint. No more than there was ever a chance for a V/E reunion after she screwed him over and he killed her father. Shippers, man. They're scary. The "who's Billy" scene in 101 was played for humor, IMO. To get a laugh out of the audience but also it's a moment of Flint screwing with Billy after Gates has just declared to an uncertain Billy that's he hugely important. There's a hundred instances in the writing after that scene that lets you know Flint knows who Billy is. He knew him enough to know he'd go along with the blank page lie about Singleton. He told Silver he trusted Billy. He knew Billy's backstory to tell Abigail. When he mentioned Billy by name to Miranda, she knew who he meant, enough to suggest Flint has talked to her about the crew before. Most of all, I just can't see a control freak like Flint not knowing the name of his own bosun who is instrumental in keeping his ship in working order. IMO, I see Silver as getting a little too cocky right now in his new found power. He thinks he's got the men wrapped around his finger and perhaps he does some of them. But Silver is no military strategist like Flint. He's not the guy who will come up with a plan to defeat the British Navy and he's not physically capable of leading it into action like Flint did this week. That is the reason they're successful as partners. Flint has the mind for war, Silver the ability to talk the men into following the plan. Together, it works. When they turn on each other, it will all fall apart. I fully expect the writers will play with history and "Treasure Island" as much as they can. They've actually admitted in interviews that they have and will continue to do so. I think about Flint's line to Mr. Scott this season -- "They only ever have half the story". That will be the same for TI. Most of what we learn about Silver's history with Flint is told to the reader from Silver's own mouth. Naturally he's going to tell the story to favor him. It's what he does. You can count on certain aspects of "TI" happening, like Silver losing a leg. But the stories and legends recounted to the reader in the book will be laced with a lot of bull crap.

Loved the finale. A nice end to a very good season and a good set up for season 4. I loved that Flint kicked the Brits' asses right back to Nassau. Flint wins at life. But I agree that I wanted a bit more from Hornigold's demise. Like maybe Flint beating him to death with his bare hands but I'll take what I can get there. At least him and his freaky feathered curls are gone. I am disappointed that Rogers isn't more upset with Eleanor. He does realize she's cost him the streets, right? That more are turning on him everyday? He can't be so whipped that he doesn't see what's happening here. Or maybe he is. Either way, he's been a dud of a new character to me. I understand Max hedging her bets. It's smart of her to sit on the fence until she has a better view of what's to come before picking a side. She sees where Eleanor is erring even if Rogers can't. I enjoy Billy and his little Rebel Alliance. He's really in his element. Anne -- freaking awesome. Always perfect. Jack and Blackbeard could be very entertaining together. I loved the conversation between Flint and Silver. That was very effective. Both actors played it so well and a nice set up for things to come. I like Silver well enough but I'm always TeamFlint. So I loved Flint's little scary smile at the end of their talk and his clearly implied "Just try it, pal". So for some Treasure Island and history stuff . . ..

I remember the guy. He was sooooo much better. I wonder what happened to him? At least he bothered to remember character's names and their storylines. Also last week, she said Billy's parents were exiles who became pirates. Like, huh? Does she even watch the show or just look at on-line clips of Vane?

The AfterBuzz woman is TERRIBLE. I'm not sure she even watches the show outside of just Vane's scenes. For the episode 8 show, she kept calling Madi "Eme". Cause I guess all young black women look alike to her. Moron.

Thanks for linking the promo! Yeah, Rogers is hard to read. If he sticks with Eleanor despite her royally screwing him then he's the PAB I always suspected him to be. I guess Blackbeard will aid Jack in the sea battle. Anne looks so gorgeous. She needs to be hat-less more often. Please, Flint, PLEASE kill Hornigold. And, yeah, where the heck is Billy and what's he doing right now?

Not just that but also she doesn't see that everything she condemns in others are all qualities she possesses, often she possesses them more than the people she's looking down on. She doesn't see that she's not so great with her plans and they often back-fire on her. That people won't accept her rule because she's heavy-handed with it. It's another reason I compare her to Cersei Lannister. Cersei's attitude is "I'm the Queen, everyone will bow to my will or else". Eleanor is often the same. She fails to see that people aren't going to accept and bend to her actions just because she wants them to.

I think the writers are really trying hard to sell that Eleanor is "in love" with Rogers but it falls flat because we all know how she has "loved" people in the past. We've seen her throw people who loved her, people she claimed to love in return, to the wolves the second it benefited her. So it's hard to swallow that she's suddenly devoted and loyal to someone she's known for a hot minute. I've always found Eleanor to be hugely lacking in self-awareness. LOL! She is the Cersei Lannister of Nassau. It's not that she isn't smart, but that she's not as smart as she thinks she is. She doesn't see what could go wrong, she just expects people to take what she dishes out and never retaliate, despite all the times they have retaliated. In season one, she thought she could black-list Vane, kill his remaining crew, alienate him from Jack/Anne and that would be that. What could the wild animal she just backed into a corner possibly do in response but take it? Except he came back with a new crew and took the fort. Season 2, she thought she could steal Abigail from under his nose and his men would turn on him, kill him and she'd walk away free. All good, right? Except it was her father and not Vane that died in response to her actions. Which brings us to this week. She sees a way to extract her revenge on Vane and do it under the guise of "helping Rogers". To soften that blow, she plans to have destroyed Flint's army and recovered the cache to present to him when he wakes up. "Look at what I did for you, honey! War's over!". Except . . . .killing Vane destroys whatever trust Rogers had built to this point. It turns the streets against him. Killing Vane brings a previously neutral Blackbeard down on them. And sending that army after Flint leaves them exposed to an attack from BB or from Spain. More of her lack of self-awareness and seeing the big picture, she boasts of how well she knows Flint. How she knows what he will do. How she knows how to defeat him. Except . . .. has it occurred to her that Flint doesn't have the IQ of a turtle? He KNOWS that she knows his tactics. He knows that she is feeding Rogers info about him and how he does things. He knows men familiar with him, like Hornigold, are coming for him. He would be a raging idiot to not have altered his usual tactics or made a plan for things they're not expecting of him. Flint is many things, but not an idiot. I'll be shocked if doesn't have some tricks up his sleeve.

Max mentioned this season that she would sneak away from the slave quarters to secretly watch her father and half-sister. So she was certainly a slave somewhere. I'd be curious to know how she ended up in Nassau. But I do agree on the actress' delivery of lines. She speaks in that monotone with the annoyingly fake accent. It can grate. CatMack -- I do think that, in Eleanor's mind, she convinced herself she was doing all this to help Rogers. It just speaks to her lack of self-awareness. She brands Max a "pirate" this season, enemy of England, when Max hasn't done a fraction of the crap she did in power. All the insults she threw at Vane -- she was also describing herself without realizing it. Eleanor deludes herself and that scene with Rogers was just another moment of it. She tells him and herself it was all for him when it was really her need for revenge and to assert the power she had her hands on again. Eleanor reminds me of Cersei Lannister in that she's not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. She never clearly sees the big picture, it's all about right this moment and how it aids her right then. Cersei to radical religious leader last season -- "Sure, have your insane cult. I'll use it to my benefit" . . . except the power she gave them was then used against her. Cersei to Jaime -- "Go get my daughter back at any cost" . . . except that cost was her daughter's life. Cersei to the people -- "I'm in charge, screw you all, I'll do what I want and you'll accept it" . . . and they turn on her. That's Eleanor to me. No consideration of the backlash she's about to get. Or, in this case, Rogers is about to get.

Eleanor didn't like her father, but she absolutely loved him and, more over, wanted his love and respect. Children love their parents, even when their parents are emotionally abusive dickwheels like Richard Guthrie. She "hated" him for not caring about her but she still loved him. And she wanted his respect, for him to admit she was as worthy of the Guthrie name as a son would've been. So I can buy her being upset that Vane killed him right when she thought she was going to get those things. But ITA on the insta-love with her and Rogers. That is so much harder to buy. And also why I think he will turn on her next week, a bit of karma catching up. Now it will be her turn to get back-stabbed by someone she "loves". I'm not sure if Eleanor did things to make herself the scapegoat, though. I think it would hurt Rogers more than help him if he admitted he got played by the criminal he put in charge. He was warned about her repeatedly, his men distrusted her and thought him foolish for giving her so much power. All he'd do is lose their respect/trust if he admitted she abused the power he stupidly gave her against their advice. Oh, geez, to the flip out fans who swear they will never, ever, EVER watch TV again. It's a knee-jerk reaction. Most of them will have their butts in front of the TV next season, whether they admit it or not. And, to me, they're not fans of the show as a whole if they do quit. They were shippers or just Vane fans, nothing else. And this is not a show for shippers or people who expect happy endings. I liked Vane. I liked him in season 1, even thought he was a jerk most of the time. I really came to appreciate him in season 2. I'll miss him but it's the world these characters live in. They die violently. WatchrTina -- ITA with your entire post. I was back and forth on Flint until the Thomas reveal and that made me die-hard love him because I finally "got" him. It made everything with him click and I understood him and his tragedy. I know there were some assholes who reacted badly but I think the majority of the fandom did not. I also grew to like Vane more in season 2 because of the writing. And I've come to dislike Eleanor for the same reasons. I was never a die-hard fan of her's, always found her quite cold. But this season sealed her fate with me. She's irredeemable now (to me). She is the monster she accused Vane of being.

kariyaki -- Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't for sure so I figured better safe than sorry. :)

I wonder if Eleanor hasn't screwed herself with this. Because when Rogers wakes up and finds out all that she has done using his name, he just might throw her to the wolves. The irony is that Rogers told Flint that Flint would have to spin some stories to make Rogers the "villain". Nope, Flint didn't have to. Eleanor has made him the villain all by herself. The streets will turn on Rogers now over Vane. Blackbeard will join the fight, bringing his pirate fleet with him. And Eleanor sent pretty much all their fighting force after Flint, leaving Nassau vulnerable next week to an uprising or a return of Blackbeard or even a Spanish attack. I'm curious about one thing, even re-watching I didn't know for sure -- is Billy still in Nassau? Or did he and Gunn leave right after the hanging and head back to Maroon Island? I'm really loving Madi. While I want someone to off Eleanor, I kinda hope she gets to do it. Max better not touch a hair on Idelle's awesome head. I love Idelle. All that was lacking in the Flint/Silver talk was for Flint to end with "Come to the Dark Side, we have cookies".

The writers have said they will play fast and loose with real history. They already have. Jack and Anne shouldn't have been together at the start of the series. Historically, they didn't meet until after the pirate pardons offered by Rogers.

I'll put behind a spoiler cut because I know not everyone has seen 309 yet (I watched OD earlier)

I think another ghost would be a bit redundant. Besides, who would he haunt? LOL! Not sure anyone would be that upset, save maybe Jack. Anyhow, here is his natural hair length: http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/actor-zach-mcgowan-arrives-at-the-starz-pregolden-globe-celebration-picture-id504141938 In "The 100" https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/84/39/a1/8439a164a1585508e55ee813ab2d1484.jpg His interview on the Today Show promoting season 3. Much more Vane-esque look. Season 4 was filming when this interview took place. http://www.hulu.com/watch/895135

CatMack -- McGowan did a live interview to promote season 3 about 2 months ago (season 4 was filming by then) and he had the long extensions with the braids and beads as Vane wears. In real life, his hair is just touching his shoulders. "The 100" had it slightly longer but not Vane's length. In the interview, it was the length Vane keeps his with the adornments. I kinda doubt he went and got the extensions just for one interview but, hey, maybe he likes the Vane look and wants to keep it full time. Toby Stephens did several interviews as well during the same time and he had the "Flint look", shaved head still with the goatee.

Yes, but I think he's through filming it. And his current extensions are much more "Vane hair" than the guy he played in The 100. Obviously that's no guarantee he survives. I'd just be surprised if they killed him off now. I kinda see them keeping as many of the historical pirates as they can for awhile longer. Damn. I was really hoping Hornigold would bite it this week. Oh, well, I guess there is always the finale.

I think McGowan has been filming season 4. He's been sporting the "Vane hair", the extensions that make his hair longer for the character. Obviously, they could kill anyone at any time . . . well, maybe not the "Treasure Island" characters just yet but the others, sure. Historically, Vane out-lived Blackbeard. I'd be surprised if they killed him, especially since he's been in danger of dying half the time this season. The show likes the unpredictable, which is why I'm thinking the mob might turn on Eleanor. She's pretty disliked in Nassau in general. There's been foreshadowing a few times about her death -- the play in which "Eleanor" was kissed by Death and the effigy of her hanging over Nassau. Right now, she and Max basically have the same storylines -- ex "Queen of Thieves" who's now aligned with England. It makes one of them unnecessary unless one is secretly working against Rogers. And, if she died, then it would stiffen Rogers' resolve and perhaps make him harden his otherwise nice guy attitude to the pirates. But that's all just speculation on my part. I could be totally off.

McGowan filmed "The 100" during the hiatus between season 3 and 4 filming. I'm fairly sure Vane's not going anywhere. Not yet anyhow. Just a speculation but I think Billy might cause a riot that will let Vane slip away. I kinda wonder if the angry mob won't end up turning on Eleanor and lynching her instead. I've just had the feeling all season long like she's doomed. Perhaps even foreshadowed in 301 when Death took "Eleanor" in play the pirates were putting on in Nassau.

Zero argument from me that it was stupid for Jack to go back in the first place. Yes, Jack has massive amounts of pride and his hubris gets in his way. To an extent, though, they're all guilty of that. Rogers thought all he had to do was ride in and act nice and hand out pardons like candy and everyone would fall in line. Max thought she knew Jack well enough to get him to hand over the gems and stroke his ego a bit in the process about how his "legacy" as the man who saved Nassau would live on. She and Rogers both underestimated the response they'd get. ITA that there is no love for Eleanor from the people of Nassau. Eleanor tried to rule with an iron fist, forcing her way, screwing over anyone in the process. Max has been more gentle with it, coaxing things in her desired direction instead of demanding it so. She hasn't openly crossed people like Eleanor did. Well, up to this point. I don't think she can hold that record for long now. It was easy when she was on the pirates' side and there was no England or Spain to contend with. But now that war is here, she won't be able to avoid openly making enemies.

I don't romanticize the pirates. I see them clearly for who and what they are. They're not nice people but neither is England/Civilization. There is a certain honesty to the pirates. They are who they are and live their lives as they choose. England, however, is all about the lies and double-dealing and betrayal. Anne was willing to exchange the cache for Jack when Max lied to her about Jack being tortured. Rogers went back on his word there. So not feeling much sympathy for TeamEngland, to be honest. Again, Max was the one who told Rogers about the cache in an attempt to hold on to her power in Nassau. She could've gone elsewhere with that money and started a legitimate business and lived happily away from it all. But she stayed because she wanted to make a point -- to herself, to Nassau, to Eleanor. It didn't work out. I just don't see how it becomes the responsibility of Jack/Anne to clean that up for her. If she'd kept it to herself, Maid Lady would've reported back that Rogers knew nothing about the secret cache and therefore wasn't purposely keeping it from them. I don't dislike Max but neither do I think she's the victimized party to Jack's evil villain.

Same here. I do not get the appeal of him. He's very bland to me. And I roll my eyes when he speaks of his "hard life", same as I did when Eleanor tried to whine to the woman emptying her freaking pee out the window. Yeah, it's tough when you're born rich, white and well-connected. Rogers "misfortunes" in life were because of decisions and choices he made. He can call me when he's been a slave like the people of Maroon Island, bought and sold. Or when he's ripped from his family and forced into servitude like Billy. Or a child slave like Vane. Love Rogers and Jack scenes, just because of how Jack always ends up owning him. So many Ranger Feels with their trio reuniting. I loved that Billy will take on more of a leadership role it would seem. I hope he helps free Vane. Madi is rocking so far. I'm really liking her. She and Silver make an interesting partnership. I can't shake the feeling that Eleanor is doomed this season. Can't say I'll be too upset. Anyone who works against my pirate babies can fail epically AFAIC.

I don't see Jack as having "sold Max out". If anything it's the opposite. Max was the one who told the Governor they had the rest of the jewels. Jack is where he's always been -- on the pirate's side. Max is the one who went over to England. Why should Jack/Anne fall on their swords to benefit her switching teams? And not the "without Max they wouldn't have the gold in the first place" argument. Without Jack, Max wouldn't have had the resources to sail to that island, fight the Spanish and recover it. Without Silver, no one would've known it was still there. Without Flint, it wouldn't have even been there still. So Jack/Anne/Max ending up with it is the result of a lot of things falling into place, not any one of them doing it all on their own. I'm not anti-Max as a character but I am TeamPirate 110% so anyone who conspires against them I want to see fail. That includes Hornigold, Eleanor, Max, Rogers, all of them. Max going to Rogers with the cache in the first place was over-playing her hand to me. Not knocking her. She tried to make a move but it didn't work out. Happens on this show. She had other options. She could've taken her fortune and quietly left the island, lived in luxury somewhere else. She could've gone with Anne as Anne wanted her to. She stayed because she wanted to hold on to her position. Again, not knocking her for that, just how I see her storyline. She didn't want to let go of her power and it didn't go as she planned so she had to give up her money. Jack/Anne shouldn't have to do the same just because she wanted them to.

So . . . When's Dr. HardOn coming back?

Great standoff between Flint and Rogers. I loved that scene. That Rogers led with Thomas makes me believe he knows the truth about Flint/Thomas. He went right for the jugular there and it worked but he did it in a subtle way, not openly taunting Flint with his knowledge. Rogers is a smart man. All he had to do was find out that Flint was really James McGraw who once worked on the original pardons with Thomas and he did his homework from there. Don't forget that Admiral Hennessy knew about Flint and Thomas' affair, too. One conversation with him and Rogers would know all he needed at how to go after Flint -- just use Thomas. I'm impressed with the transformation of Silver. He was a used car salesman at first. Now he's truly a scary pirate.

Oh, hello, Dr. HardOn! Please, take off some of your clothes and stay awhile.