MatildaMoody

I guess it's important that these gossip items keep coming to get people excited for the season. But, these items seem to always put one detail too many that tells you it is either a fabrication or total speculation and it pulls me out of the gossip. In this case, it was this bit: Anyone familiar with Bethenny's earlier seasons know that she was rarely confrontational. She was a pro at the passive aggressive talking head/behind the back snark. When it came time to confrontations she would try to turn it into a rational conversation (the "up here, down there" conversation with Kelly; the "Jill only likes you because you are the underdog" conversation with Ramona; the "Rumble on the Bridge" conversation with Ramona; the list goes on) and she was rarely the person that invited the sit down or the conversation in the first place. There is also that bit about Jill. Andy has gone on record as saying that he wanted Jill to do a cameo but was worried about a Housewives Revolt. No matter how Andy feels about Jill personally, there is no way he would give up the spike in ratings that would come from her appearing to confront Bethenny. This is especially true since he isn't directly involved in filming and Jill's antics wouldn't affect him directly. They are small things, but they make the article really hard for me to believe. I mean, I totally believe that Bethenny wouldn't engage in over the top confrontations, because history shows that to be her MO on the franchise. But, to believe that BRAVO is sweating the season because Bethenny is behaving the way she always has on the show? That would defeat the purpose of them bringing her back in the first place.

But that is just it. We don't know that Lisa doesn't like this woman. We only know that she is worried about the relationship. We only know that they have not met her yet and having her at this televised event is the first time that she will be meeting her. These are things that would be worrisome to any parent regardless of what they did in their own lives. Yes, it probably meets the textbook definition of hypocrisy for Lisa to have issue with the age difference since she is married to a man with the same age difference. But, it doesn't make her any different than any other parent out there. I don't see it as hypocrisy when compared to LGBT issues though because we know that Lisa has not shunned Max or cut him out of the family based on this relationship. Lisa's issue is with the age difference, we don't know that she has an issue with the woman, and we know that she does not have an issue with Max. And sorry but, parents are hypocrites by nature. They have to be if they want to protect their children from making the same mistakes they did. I have yet to meet a single parent who could say that they haven't done or said something hypocritical when it comes to raising their own children. It is the nature of being parents. So far all Lisa has done is voice concerns over the age difference. We haven't see her fighting any battles or trying to ice Max or his girlfriend out of their lives. They haven't even met yet. Them being hesitant about meeting her for the first time on television is understandable even with out the age difference.

I am starting to get more of an understanding of Yolanda as I look back over past seasons and watch this one. For Yolanda, maybe because of her upbringing or culture, everything is a choice. It's a very pragmatic stance and I could see her offending people left and right with out even realizing it because her mindset seems to be about choices and consequences. The reason she didn't understand why Andy was angry about the "choose to be gay" comments was because she believes that everyone chooses everything for themselves. I would be willing to bet that if questioned closely, she would admit that her "Great Love" for David is a choice that she made and continues to make every day. All of the ridiculous catering that she does to him is because she chooses to love him and therefore, she chooses to maintain that love by behaving as a subordinate. The idea that people are simply born gay would be complete foreign to her in the same way that it would be impossible for her to believe that people suddenly find themselves homeless, or find themselves in a bad marriage. It's offensive, and explains why I have never really enjoyed her on the show, but it also makes sense in explaining why she takes such hard stances about things. I.e. "There is nothing uglier than a drunk woman." Or, "I thought you were going to become gay because of your being a jock." Or, "Bella is a rebel because she dresses edgy." It is all bullshit, of course, but it is also the way she structures her life and rings true to her based on the way her life has turned out. Of course, it could be that she just phrases things this way because English isn't her first language. If I had to choose, I would say it's somewhere in the middle with me leaning toward her structuring life as a series of choices regardless of actual circumstance.

As a comparison, it was a poorly done one by the editing monkeys. No where does Lisa's reticence about accepting the age difference between her son and his girlfriend suggest that she doesn't love her son unequivocally. In fact, her concerns suggest exactly the opposite. It is obvious that Lisa loves her son without restriction and is worried that he is making a mistake. I don't see how that in any way makes her a hypocrite for supporting the LBGT community. I think that Lisa's concerns are valid. Her son is 22, presumably still finding his way and most likely not mature enough to settle into a relationship. His girlfriend is in her mid 30's, chances are that if she is looking for a long term relationship, she is ready to settle down. That puts a great deal of pressure on the relationship at the start and puts her son at a disadvantage. He doesn't have nearly the life experience that she has and the two are on unequal footing. The age difference between Ken and Lisa may be a factor in her worries about her son or they may not. She may remember how difficult it was when they married. Or, given the time and place that the two got together, the age difference wasn't as uncommon as we know that older men get together with younger women all the time. I could see most parents being concerned about such a major age difference when the child is only just getting out on their own. Even if, or especially if, they themselves had to overcome a major age difference in their own relationship. I am always amused by how shocked people are to find out that parents tend to fall on the side of hypocrisy when it comes to their own children. The phrase "do as I say and not as i do" is a cliche for a reason. Parents tend to want their kids to avoid the hardships they went through even if those hardships turned them into better people, or everything worked out for them in the long run. It's the nature of parents. My parents were teenagers when they had me and even though they are about to celebrate 40 years of marriage, they never would have wanted me to have made the same decisions they did. I don't think that makes them hypocrites, I think that just makes them parents.

I remember there being strange tensions between Kyle and Kim. I thought it was odd that Kyle would so quickly go to bat for Taylor over her own sister. I also remember that Kyle and Kim had each on separate occasions said something about their mother wanting them to look after the other. I also remember Kyle being very impatient with Kim's anxiety when hanging out with all of the women at different events. But, BRAVO was never pointing to it having anything to do with any kind of addiction on Kim's part. If anything, it was as though they were trying to play on the rivalry of the child star versus the not so famous child actor - ala Baby Jane, rather than it pointing to some type of addiction. Honestly, Kyle seemed much more drunk than Kim did in the limo scene. So, while the revelation of Kim being an alcoholic probably made sense to people who knew more about Kim's life and career, it totally came out of left field for me. My only knowledge of Kim had been the show - I was too young to know any of her Disney work. But the thing that stood out most to me in that scene was how it never had to get to that point. Taylor started drama with Kim. Kim tried to leave the party and the fight. Kyle involved herself on Taylor's behalf (again, I thought it was very weird the way Kyle would attack her own sister in order to defend Taylor's BS), and even as Kim is trying to leave and Adrienne is trying to intervene, Kyle just kept going and even got physically aggressive. So, sure Kyle may have had a bunch of pent up stuff she was holding in against Kim, but I can't sympathize with her on the way she handled it because it was Taylor's shenanigans that instigated it.

This is interesting to me because I was totally shocked by Kyle's outburst. Watching that whole season the first time around, I saw absolutely nothing that pointed to Kim being an alcoholic. There were no knowing looks as all of the women sipped champagne on Adrienne's plane on the way to the basketball game. There were no awkward moments at the many wine filled dinners. When Kyle outed Kim in the limo, I replayed the season in my head and couldn't point to a single moment where her alcoholism was the elephant in the room. The whole thing came out of left field for me. And I thought it was obvious that producers had no intention of outing Kim because they hadn't done anything to give the audience an inkling that there was anything other than Kim having anxiety issues all season. While the producers ran with the accusation and season 2 very obviously showed that Kim had some major addiction issues, I saw nothing that pointed to it in season 1 prior to Kyle saying it in the limo fight. In hindsight, I can go back to season 1 and see some subtle signs, but as it was playing out, I saw nothing that pointed to story boarding Kim's alcoholism as part of the show.

Andy described that Jill thing as him looking at a cast mutiny and therefore he dropped the Jill cameo. That doesn't suggest that Ramona had enough pull to prevent Jill from coming on the show. That only suggests that Andy didn't want the headache that would come with Jill. And I will agree to disagree with Lisa being production, since we have absolutely no evidence of that. And also because we know that it would just be bad business for production to let one cast member control production. They learned that lesson with Jill back in the day. If Lisa is production, I doubt the entire argument about whether or not Lisa told Brandi to pack the magazines would have even made it to air. Most of the things in which Lisa looked bad to the audience last season most likely would have never played out. Very little of last season fits with the idea that Lisa is production while hiding behind them.

If Max's issues were discussed in the tabloids at what point was Lisa keeping something a secret? It not being discussed on the show is for the same reason as Ad's surrogacy actually being discussed on the show - the producers made the decision. I can guarantee that there were much more interesting things the show could have covered that season other than the surrogacy and the secrecy around it. For some reason the producers thought we wanted to see it so they ran with it. If the producers had any inkling that Max's issues (which I have no idea what they are and really don't care as he has only been on the show for 5 minutes over multiple seasons) the producers would surely run with that and Lisa would have the same choice that Adrienne did. She would either have to spin it or let it all hang out. IMO the major mistake that Adrienne made was in letting the producers and Brandi control her narrative around the surrogacy. A very quick, "this is a family matter that I need to discuss with my children, and I would appreciate your not gossiping about it to our friends until I have had that chance." Would not only have quelled the conversation, but would have gone an even longer way towards making Brandi look like an insensitive bitch for even going there. Instead, Ad had them excise the conversation leaving everything open to speculation and making things that much worse for her.

I think they want to be friends because they miss having fun with each other. For me, the question is whether or not the hurt was as intense as they portrayed it or if they were playing it up for dramatic purposes. Both women know that being the victim plays well to viewers, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was easy for them to let it go once filming was done because while their feelings may have been hurt, I doubt they were as angry as they wanted the viewers to believe. And once they had some space and saw that viewers were bored with their feuding, it was easy enough to just move on and try to get back to that sweet spot that made their friendship so watchable in the first place.

Of course Production can order people from other shows to appear on another project. The people can either agree or not. But, to say that Lisa has a say in who films on Beverly Hills assumes she has way more power than she actually does. And it is entirely possible that the BH cast believes she has more power than she actually does, but that doesn't make it true. Lisa can hand over the cast of VPR all day long and if Production decides they want or don't want to use them on BH, they will. Lisa can agree or not, but she has no say in production for Beverly Hills. Of course the other women want her at their events, if anything they want all of the cast at their events because it will equal screen time, but it doesn't mean that Lisa somehow has more say than any other cast member when it comes to Beverly Hills.

I agree with all of this! As for Lisa seeing an opening to be a favorite? Lisa was a favorite before Kyle outed Kim. That was just what happened she had no need to push into that position she was already there. It can be argued that she has fought to preserve that status, and even that she used that status to make the other women toe the line and do what she wanted. But, it wasn't a situation like with Brandi, where there was an opening that she maneuvered herself into. Fan reaction to her was immediate and positive and the fact that she was still Kyle's biggest defender going into season 2 just showed that she did value Kyle and her friendship even after all of that bullshit about being "jelly" and preying on the weak.

Yeah, the only thing that I ever remember Kyle doing was when she cut Carlton off mid sentence at that first meet and greet at Kyle's house. Carlton was telling some story and Kyle cuts her off to say something about opening the wine. I thought that was hilarious, but I could see how that would be embarrassing if I were in that situation. As for the rest, I think Andy was citing that Reality Shows aren't just about the footage the participants give. Because we know that the participants give hours upon hours of footage that never makes the air and it is insulting to viewers to pretend that its ONLY about the footage the participants give. It is about what the footage the producers choose to use more than what the participants are willing to give.

Agreed. Carlton seethed with disgust for both Kyle and Joyce and it seemed to come out of nowhere. She had to have decided that she wasn't going to like Kyle based on watching the show. And I think she figured that if Kyle was backing Joyce then she would win points by disliking her as well. I just think it's good that Andy acknowledges the other side of the "We only use what you give us." I feel like Reality Show producers think we are idiots when they refuse to acknowledge that there could be footage that completely refutes the story they are trying to give us. Not to say that was what was going on with Carlton.

I think this ignores what actually happened in those first two seasons and their reunions. Lisa was the only person who didn't bail on Kyle after she outed Kim. Lisa defended Kyle in the press and at the reunion. She was never close to Kim. Kim admitted that she barely knew any of these women in her first season - it was why she felt so out of place and uncomfortable when Adrienne took them to the basketball game. None of the women except Adrienne even really tried to get to know Kim in that first and even in the second season. So, there was no distancing herself from Kim, because Lisa barely knew her. She did know Kyle though and defended her as her friend who would never intentionally harm her sister and who was not the bully that Camille was trying to paint her as. With Adrienne, both women were up front about the fact that even though they were neighbors and knew each other, they were never good friends and had only just started to get to know each other during filming. So, again, there was no distancing until that third season. As for Brandi, Lisa kept her distance from her and only grudgingly interacted with her. The trip to Hawaii was the first time we actually saw Lisa give Brandi a chance and even then, Lisa didn't embrace her as a friend. That second reunion, Brandi made the play for Lisa's friendship because Lisa was completely blindsided by all of the animosity that was coming in her direction from Adrienne, Taylor, and Kyle. Brandi saw a chance to improve her standing and took it. As for screentime for VPR on RHBH, that isn't Lisa's call. She has an Executive Producer credit on VPR, not RHBH. She has no say in what production does on Beverly Hills. She can only go along or refuse. She doesn't cast or control what is being filmed. If BRAVO wants to cross promote VPR on BH, they will do that, but it isn't Lisa's call whether or not they do or which cast members will be shown. All she can do on BH is manipulate her own image.

That's a tricky one because I think it is expected that a woman would discuss her "friends/frienemies" with her spouse and it not be considered talking behind someone's back as a given. The tricky part is that it's being filmed, so we have to decide whether normal rules of talking to your spouse about what's happening would apply given that its being captured on camera. As for the talking heads, since those are largely created by targeted producer questions and generally happen after filming has completed, it's hard to apply a strict rule of "no talking behind someone's back." This is especially true since we can't be absolutely sure if the talking head that is being shown is actually addressing the scene it's being positioned next to. I do agree that it is disingenuous to pretend that a conversation between husband and wife is a private conversation when it is being filmed, but I also think that is the nature of the reality show beast.

I'm not sure how much of this I buy. The article claims that Bethenny took chunks of money from Luanne and Ramona and thus the two of them were demoted. We know that isn't true as it was announced that Luann would be back in full capacity. She was demoted last season for reasons unknown, but was so popular that the is now back at full time status. As for Ramona, there were rumors about her possibly being demoted based on how much of her divorce would be shown, but nothing has yet been said to confirm that. And those rumors were happening before Bethenny had even agreed to return. As for her being difficult because she isn't an actress, I can't be too assed about that. I hate those obviously fake scenes and I think it would be great if all of the show participants would acknowledge that they are not in fact actresses and refuse to do those obviously fake scenes just out of respect for viewer intelligence.

The thing I like about Andy's admission about Carlton, is we finally get an acknowledgement of the other side of "reality" tv. We always hear the adage, that the producers can only show what the participants give them. And that is true. But the other side of that is that you can also give them plenty of your life and have very little of it actually play out on screen. And, that part is largely ignored because participants who point that out are automatically disdained for "blaming the editing." It's disingenuous of producers to just say,"we only show what you give us." Because it doesn't address the bulk of things that the participants also give that never gets shown. Don't get me wrong. I have no desire to have Carlton back. But, for Andy of all people to admit that she got a raw deal when it came to what wasn't shown, is a big step in my opinion.

From interviews and appearances on other shows, I think this is just Lisa's personality. She is that super excited fan girl when it comes to just about everything. It may be because she once hosted a talk show, or it may just be that she tends to err on the side of positivity. But, everything I have seen of her, from her and Harry's reality show, to Celebrity Apprentice, to interviews on shows like WWHL, seems to point to her having a cheerleader mentality in just about everything. I can totally see that getting old in large doses, but right now I find it refreshing after all of the sniping and nitpicking of last season.

I think this is them accepting each other for who they are. Neither of them are much for taking responsibility for things they may have said or done that were hurtful to the other. So, it would make sense that if they truly do want to move on, they have to stop demanding apologies from each other, because it would be an exercise is frustration and futility. Lisa doesn't admit that she is wrong and neither does Kyle. So they have to decide what it is they truly hope to accomplish when dealing with each other. What they truly want to accomplish is for them to move on. Since neither is willing to give, their restaurant makeup session actually makes a great deal of sense to me.

Both sisters have commented on this. According to Kyle, they bought Kim out of her share of the house. According to Kim, she took a loan from Kyle and Mauricio against a part of her share of the house without realizing that she was turning over her rights to the house to them. There is no reason to think that Mauricio would risk his reputation by conning Kim out of the house - especially since he and Kyle seem to be supporting her financially anyway. And Kim was most likely strung out on booze and drugs to know what was going on at the time. But, you never know with this family. I personally believe Kyle on this one. But, just for kicks I would love to be able to scream drunkenly at someone, "You stole my God Damned House!" just to see what the reaction would be.

There is a joke in there about Kyle hiding behind her hair or using it as a shield somewhere. My brain is just too overloaded to put it together.

The older picture of her that has her showing lots of teeth reminds me of Patsy Stone from AbFab, you know, without the fabulousness that is Patsy Stone.

What's interesting to me is that both Kyle and Kim laughed off Kim's "tricking" Kyle into risking illness just to get her over to the house. It makes me think that this type of pathological narcissism is just par for the course within this family. Like, I would be seriously pissed if my sister did something like that to me, because my sister would never do anything like that to me. It would be so out of character for her that I would have to call her out on it. For Kim and Kyle, it is just another harmless prank that a big sister pulled on her little sister. The layers of dysfunction in this family always startles me and for some reason, it's the things that they both seem to think of as no big deal that stand out to me the most.

Actually, now that I think about it, if this contract is true Tamra actually fits it more than Brandi. Tamra had legit custody issues, started drama with every housewife, and we know her gym is losing money. Brandi talks trash about the father of her kid, but there haven't been any issues regarding custody. Custody seems to be the only thing that the two have agreed on and don't dispute publicly.

Is there more to the email that I am not seeing? Because to me it reads like a woman desperate to get her daughter to see just how close she is to making that one major mistake that will ruin or possibly even end her life. Her begging Bella to consider her sister and younger brother, was kind of heart breaking. I didn't read anything in that email that suggested that she was focused on modeling being the only way to have a successful life. The girl is driving around with blood and used tampax in her car, her mother obviously sees this as a cry for help. Plus, Yolanda was picking up the car - I assume from the police impound, so why would the assumption be that Bella was driving on a suspended license? Seriously, there is only the screenshot at the link posted above, so if there is more to the email that I am missing, please point me to it, because I totally see a woman who is afraid for her daughter. And, I second the opinion that I really wish this had never been made public. That type of pain isn't entertaining and should be off limits no matter if they are on television or not.