mercfan3

To be fair, I have yet to see anyone have any transphobic reactions to CeCe. Tumblr, Reddit, here, reviews..There tends to be three responses 1. That was really transphobic because of the history of the way the film and tv industry have used trans women. 2. Was it really necessary to have a trans character be A ? And a belief that it was done for shock value. 3. I understand what the writers were trying to do and why they did them and so its not necessarily transphobic, but there are some definite issues with the way the story was told.

As for the male predatory behavior. I actually think the show comments on it. They have restrictions (Ezria tween fans)..and yes.we see the women blaming other women..but the show itself..comments on the grossness that is of this men. (Even Ezra, although they do it..subtly. ) They even had an entire episode dedicated to it. The timeline thing is just a mess..and really, there was no reason to make it such a mess. Have the Bethany/CeCe/Marion scene happen with actresses of the proper age, and a different event that caused CeCe's diagnosis. There was legit no reason to do that.

I don't understand why she didn't just get younger actors/actresses for those roles. Is the budget really cut that tight?

That bothers me too, some of my favorite episodes came this season (The first two and the mom's episode..) As has been said, I totally believe CeCe was going to be A from the start of season 3. The clues are there. I just don't know if the rest of the story was..

Yup, and if they wanted a time jump..then time jump then.. EzrA was the perfect A. He had family money. Although they could come up with a better theory than "Writing a book" ...psychopath torturing innocent teens to write a demented book is a better motive than.."Obsessed with the girls and liked the game" which was both Mona's and CeCe's motive. It would have reinforced that he was a terrible person for being with Ali and Aria..teenage girls..oh and there were plenty of clues..from the damn pilot..to make up for it. CeCe's redcoat..she's on his payroll..(That's enough of a motive)..black widow..who cares? If Sarah was both characters anyway, no need for Blackwidow to exist. plus, Ian harding could have pulled it off. (Although Vanessa did do a good job.)

2 more thoughts.. I also blame ABC family for this. Fans feelings were too important to the network, so they couldn't do what they should have done..and had Toby, Paige or Ezra be A. (Granted, Keegan couldn't pull off the acting..) I thought Vanessa Ray was very good, and her dark humor was probably the only positive of this episode's execution. edit: actually a third thought..how badly does Ezra suck at sleuthing..because CeCe was on his payroll.

1. I hate that you are having me defend this finale. Because it was terrible. And in fact, more than anything I believe the theory that this was quickly done because of the spoilers. You expect plotholes, you don't expect poorly filmed scenes. 2. Yes, it was totally a "patriarchy is bad" episode. The whole theme that goes onto these shows. I just understand the underlying theme and it simply existed in a different way this episode. Her father couldn't accept her, she was blamed for Marian's death because she was in a dress. It was an underlining factor. 3. CeCe is transgendered and also crazy. She's not crazy because she's transgendered. Like I said, I think establishing that (which they did) and also being the lgbt friendly show that it is, a transgendered character being A isn't that harmful. That being said, I think they shouldn't have done it. If they wanted Charles to be transgendered, fine...Charles died and (Bethany) CeCe took his identity for the game. Or, you know..actually have a trans actress play CeCe. (And I totally respect people who feel differently..also, I used "Charles there because in this scenario CeCe wouldn't be Charles..and there's no other name to use.) For me though, the answers (at least A...Red Coat and Blackveil were terrible...I would have even been okay with Sara being one..but to have her be both..and to have us only know her this season, even if she was mentioned in prior seasons...bad..) were okay. There are plenty of CeCe clues...the story they told..should have been put together better. Motive should have been better (although even those were....okay..if TOLD better..) timelines needed to be better. The answers wouldn't have bothered me if it was a well thought out in the details and the actual finale was a good show..instead of looking like a college project.

CeCe's not the issue. IMO. There are plenty of clues building up to CeCe. In fact, it's pretty obvious.. I don't even think CeCe being trans is the issue. And hell, they could have even pulled off..her motive was she didn't like that they were happy Ali was gone/trying to get Ali to reveal herself/liked playing with dolls. The issue was that it was a poorly written, filmed, and directed episode. Also Sara Harvey made it worse.

I also have to say, I think Jason has become my favorite part of PLL. He might seriously be the biggest victim.

So...some people on reddit think it's possible that the spoilers were real, and these were some last minute changes so it was a surprise. Which is possible considering how sloppy some of the filming was. (IN particular, the reveal looked almost photo shopped)

No, CeCe's "they took Ali away from me" was directed to her father. She was targeting the girls first because they were happy Ali died. Then she wanted to draw Ali out of hiding..then she couldn't give "the game" up because she liked playing with her dolls. Also, how does everyone know the ages? I always thought the Melissa generation was about four or five years older...and also how do people know when Toby's mother died? (Are you sure it's not Jenna's mother that walked in on Toby and Ali?) Granted, PLL isn't good at time. I think I'm more upset that this wasn't a better episode. CeCe being A...okay..even on the spoiler thread with the shows watched, I picked up on CeCe being shady. The trans storyline? Personally..I'm okay with it. They were sensitive about it. She wasn't crazy or a killer because she was trans..it was just reinforcement that her father was a dick. (And to further relate..fuck the patriarchy..) And she happened to be crazy anyway. The why? They could have done better. Or they could have explained them more in depth. And that's really what my issue is..sure..there were answers..but they were all essentially throwaway lines. There's no reason why they couldn't have discovered where Charles makes his money three or four episodes ago. Or hell, no reason the carissimi group couldn't have been around 3 or 4 seasons ago. Stuff like that..throwaway lines make for a poor episode.

The Good CeCe..is a good choice. There were a lot of CeCe clues. That's a satisfying person that I can believe was thought of originally. (Although, there were probably lots of other picks.) I also liked...my one struggle with CeCe being bad was she always seemed to show a lot of love and loyalty to Ali, so the fact that it made sense (and that the original CeCe's motives was that the girls hated Ali) I also got the sense that we weren't supposed to forgive CeCe, but maybe understand her a little. She was creepy and had a dark humor about her and what she did. They didn't try and make the character completely forgiven. The meh.. I'm actually going to say the transgender reveal was okay. It could have been done better. But let's be honest, the most famous trans character is a criminal. Is a crazy person that much worse? Likewise, I'd say that this show is so lgbt friendly, that it has earned the right to use a trans character as big bad. And finally, it was clearly yet another "fuck the patriarchy" moment from this show..because truly she was locked away for that reason. (And plus, truly..Mr. D was the biggest bad.) It could have been done better, though. For instance, have Charles be transgender...but actually die, and then have Bethany be obsessive and take her identity. OR..Charles should have been played by a trans character. The Bad.. Sara Harvey - Wtf. First of all, time frame doesn't match up. Second...does she have stockholm syndrom or was she just a psycho...wtf was her motive here. And did I see it right or was she black widow too? Those are two big reveals to have the character be introduced this season. The pacing of the episode..it was just info dump after info dump. This really should have been done thoughout the season to get us fully emotionally involved. The Why? That was supposed to blow us away? We're back to " hyper intelligent crazy person who loves "the game" " , although this time..the game was "keep Ali here, and play with my dolls.." Ali's married...Booo..that needs to not be the case. WTF happened to Jason, CeCe, their father, and Sarah.

That's not meaning they are virgins. It means they've never touched men. Gay men who have never had sex with women are called goldstars too. It's like said above, virginity is a social construct. You don't need a penis to have sex. And I doubt Marlene would enforce that myth. (And I don't think Ali is a virgin is about her redemption, I think she said they didn't do anything with Ian and Ezra because of all the complaints about Ali being 14 and with grown men. )

Didn't Emily and Ali have sex?

I don't think Jenna is bad. Someone has been trying to kill her from the getgo too. I actually think it's possible we could have seen the entire show from Jenna's perspective and it would have looked a lot like the liars.

Because pretty much everything that was said in those spoilers were wrong. Wren could still be A, but that's just a good guess.

Clark was probably told to keep an eye on Ali..or..Ali knew he was a cop and set it up..she did tell Spencer she "knew what she was doing"

So, I was thinking about what Troian said..about how she plays Spoby like something has been broken between them since he was on the A Team. I wonder if Tyler plays his scenes with Ezra like he hates him? We've seen Caleb let his feelings known to anyone who has harmed Hannah..whether it be her step sister (That dress gives you back fat), Mona (he pretty much always tells everyone how much he hates Mona), Ali (the scene in the classroom) Ella's X (he punched him and called him a pervert for hitting on Hannah).. Yet nothing for the teacher who stalked his girlfriend for years, was dating one of his girlfriends friends..and how just creepily hangs out with them? You'd expect Caleb to make a snarky comment..but I don't think he can because of the issues with fans. But still..you can just feel that Caleb doesn't like Ezra. So I wonder if that's a acting choice on Tyler's part or if that's what Marlene wants.

To be fair, a lot of those questions have already been answered..but people don't believe the show. (For instance, Wilden killed Garrett because he was going to spill info to Spencer.)

Crashing school dances was relatively easy if you just waited an hour or so after the dance started. Granted, this was always if it was held somewhere else. But still, one of the more believable aspects of the show.

I know there are a lot of clues for Wren. Like, people have compiled a ton of them..and the drawing is particularly damning. And maybe in a way that makes more sense, if Red Coat is CeCe (which I think she definitely is)..because of the "strangers on a train" theme. But Ezra makes sense in a lot of ways. Heck, in A is For Answers Ali says Ezra is still trying to find her. She thinks it's for Aria's sake. But it's possible she just doesn't take him seriously. And CeCe or someone else could have been the one to take Ali. Plus, was he with the girls? Or at the time Ali was kidnapped, did the guys split from the girls? There's also the very big issue of Ezra not telling authority figures that the girls were in trouble. That still hasn't been addressed. Well, if he's under RedCoat's thumb, he couldn't. My issue is motivation...and details. And what the real deal was. There's part of me that wants it to be a man too..but I think the show does an excellent job with the analogy, and maybe it doesn't have to be the actual plot too...just more the meaning behind the story.

Okay, so..my final theory. Blackwidow - Mrs. D Red Coat - Bethany/CeCe (Twins, one is dead) Charles - Ezra (I'm doing this based on a few of the episodes Marlene told us to watch, plus some of the rare clues this season.) As people have noted, Strangers on a Train has been referenced quite a bit leading up to the reveal. We've also noticed hints that Charles can be redeemed (which most of us don't like) and that his story is sympathetic. So, for those that don't know Strangers On A Train is about two people who meet on a train and decide to do each other's crimes for them. That way there was no suspicion. One party felt guilty, the other party felt nothing. I think Charles' story is a variation on that. I think Charles had issues as a child, but truly only wants to be part of his family. I think his goal this entire time was to protect Ali. We've seen crimes happen to two different groups of people on this show, The Liars and The NAT club. Bethany/CeCe wants to torture the liars, Charles wants to get rid of the NAT club. But here's the thing, Charles is the one that feels guilty. And every time that happens, CeCe/Bethany punishes him. (Like for instance, by killing his mother. It doesn't make sense that he'd kill his mother..and not kill his father.) - Because the truth is, CeCe/Bethany is the real A. So Charles does what CeCe/Bethany wants, while CeCe/Bethany take out the NAT club for him. But he leaves clues as to who he is and his story. Just wanting desperately to return to his family. Torturing the liars to CeCe/Bethany's liking..stuck in the A games as well. I know this theory lacks details (Who hit Ali, Who hit CeCe/Bethany, who killed Marion..) but that's the outline. Why Ezra and CeCe/Bethany First and foremost, there was a lot of evidence to support them working together. She was on his payroll. The phonecalls. One big one though, in one of the episodes Marlene told us to watch (A is for Answers) when CeCe said she knew who "killed that girl." She also said she had evidence that Ali was alive. The next scene we see Holbrook at Spencer's house, with evidence of Ali being alive - a picture that we know that Ezra likely took. (He was there after they met Ali in the backyard.) In the Christmas Special, we see Ali's fake ID as Holly Varjak. We know Varjak is another name for Charles..and we also know Ezra called Ali "Holly Golightly" (Which we learn both of those things in two of the episodes that Marlene suggested..Christmas and A is for answers) They also made sure to put in the show that Ali and Ezra never slept together. Some think that's for the ages...but they also established that Ali and Ezra never really had romantic contact. Not only that, but Ezra doesn't care if a person is a teenager. (From a psych perspective, Charles is clearly regressed emotionally...he's not mature. Ezra likes to hang out with teenagers.) Now as for CeCe/Bethany (Who I'll just call CeCe)? CeCe had the masks (she was the one who planned Ali's getaway at the Ice Ball..so she likely had the masks), When asked who Jenna was most afraid of, she said CeCe. (Actually, there's a mountain of evidence for CeCe being redcoat, so I won't go into it.) CeCe was wearing clothes that Mrs. D had bought and put in Ali's room. (That's a big one) in A is For Answers Blackwidow - In the Christmas episode, Mrs. D was literally dressed as the black widow, truthfully who else could it be. She's the one with the connections to both of them, and who brought them together. And death sort of follows her around.

Lucy wasn't kidding...she does have a hard time keeping secrets. If she knew who A was..we'd know by now.

Yea, usually they release them later in the week..but we are at Friday already, haha.

I'm surprised Caleb didn't flip out. Bad enough they went after Ali who was lured by Charles, but they were with Ezra and Toby..that's got "Kidnap me" written all over it.