S02.E04: Aqualad

[MarkHB]

Quote

Four years ago, Dick, Donna, Hank, Dawn and Garth aka Aqualad are living together in Titans Tower, thriving as a superhero team, and growing into a tight-knit family.  But their personal feelings start to bleed more and more into their work, and with the arrival of a new villain, the Titans begin to question their destiny as heroes.

[Jenniferbug]

I would like to demand a Lazarus pit for Garth. Now. 

Two things I think this show does really well is casting and utilizing character history. I bought into Dick and Donna as childhood best friends immediately last season, and had no problem at all believing that Garth was also part of that history and has been in love with Donna forever. Though it does make me wonder about the Justice League proper- were they all totes ok with training kids to be weapons and putting them in dangerous situations? Yikes. 

I'm glad Garth got momentary happiness before the end at the very least. So that went pretty much in the exact opposite direction I thought it would. I really want to know who sent Deathstroke after Garth and why. 

So Dawn and Hank were just casually hooking up in the flashbacks last season? Then she meets Dick and dates him and when that goes sour, she and Hank end up officially together? I thought it was funny that Garth said Dawn's not the type to need a man when we've literally only seen her character in a relationship. Though she is badass in her own right so I'll still give them that. 

Who is Jillian and why does Donna HAVE to go back to Themiscira? I wasn't clear on why she would be expected to go live out her days on the remote island. 

Ugh, that ending. No, Dick. No. Leave sweet adorable Jericho alone to live his sweet adorable life. I don't think I'm going to like where this goes. Lazarus pits for everyone? Please? 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Jenniferbug

[Primal Slayer]

Best episode of the series thus far imo. They really should've started the series off at this point in time and built from it.

I'm already hooked on Donna/Garth and it was taken from me so fast! I guess in this version the Aqua's arent bulletproof? I do wish they would've put in a little line about Aquaman or JL after Garths death because I can't accept that either wouldn't be hunting down Deathstroke for killing a sidekick unless they had some sort of reason.

Donna is definitely my fave, she has so much interesting story to tell, now just add in some good fights in there instead of all of the lassoing. She is an Amazon after all.

8 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

Who is Jillian and why does Donna HAVE to go back to Themiscira? I wasn't clear on why she would be expected to go live out her days on the remote island. 

I'm guessing she is a fellow Amazon who I'm guessing helps keeps tab on Mans World and Donna for Hippolyta. I'm assuming Donna was allowed to travel back to mans world for an X amount of time to learn the ways of Mans World and be managed by Diana. Now that she seemingly isn't Diana's ward, she has to go back to finish her training as an Amazon.

[Cthulhudrew]

I really enjoyed this episode, although the internal timeline seemed off.

We see Donna talking to Jillian about going back to Themiscyra early, and Jillian says "my show ends in two weeks, if you still want to leave, you can go back with me then." Not too much later, Donna is telling Dick she has to leave "tonight." So I'm thinking, it's been two weeks already? Whew!

Then we see that it is still the night of Garth's birthday, suggesting the whole episode took place in a single day(!), except we see Donna later talking to Jillian about staying, and it seems like it must be a while later- but when she comes back to Titans Tower, Hank and Dawn are taking down the decorations... so the next day? Weird.

In any case, definitely seems a shame to write off Garth so quickly; I think that character was kind of cool. I really love Donna's character, and am glad she's getting more episode time this season.

I suspect Deathstroke wasn't just there for Garth- after all, he did shoot twice, and Deathstroke (at least in comics) isn't the sort for collateral damage or extra credit if he's not getting paid for it. I kind of got the feeling that Garth knew he was taking one for the team and sacrificing himself for Donna, who I think was the real target (for whatever reason). If so, that means Donna will be in trouble now, because Deathstroke also isn't one to leave a contract unfulfilled.

For a second, I actually thought Jillian had put the hit on Garth, to try and compel Donna to come back early, but a) she wouldn't have had any reason to know he would show up at the airport, and b) she seemed relieved that Garth finally admitted his feelings out loud.

[phoenics]

I have mixed feelings about tonight's episode.

What I liked tonight:

• That opening Deathstroke kill sequence was AWESOME (said in a singsong voice)! That was honestly the best part of the episode for me. I was hiding behind my hands because his kills were so unexpected even when you knew they were coming. Esai is killing this role - he is so menacing!
• I liked getting more backstory on Donna and seeing everything with Garth and how that played out. I felt like I got to know Donna better this episode, even though I still don't know what her destiny is and who Jillian is.
• The Hawk/Dove fight choreography is really top notch - both when the Titans saved the family and when H/D took out Dr. Light's minions and then Dr. Light himself.
• The super suit up scene! OMG that was AWESOME (repeat singsong voice)!
• It was good to see the backstory on Dr. Light and why he'd hate the Titans for putting him away.
• Overall the Titan fight sequences were great and the team (er, stunt doubles) had a good chemistry between them. Loved the kid watching the Titans fight from his parents' car.
• Seeing Aqualad's powers was very very cool - I get why it's hard to have him as a regular - those effects would be tough. I liked his chemistry with Donna.
• Dawn shipping Donna with Aqualad was cute.
• Jericho!! AWWWWWWW!!!!!

What I was "meh" on tonight:

• Something was off for me in the chemistry of the 5 of them. There was no real conflict or tension except with Garth trying to get with Donna. I'm not saying there needed to be fights or anything, but there wasn't even good natured tension with Dick and Hank. Just ... nothing. No spark - maybe that's what felt off to me.
• Hank didn't really feel like Hank, meaning he was so light and bubbly that I was jarred a bit. I'm not saying he needs to be a cranky pants all the time - but he didn't even really give dark humor - just bright "I'm so happy and I totally don't notice my ex-gf is now with my Titans partner Dick". I just ... didn't buy it. He felt a bit neutered to me. I expected at least a little subtext there and got none.
• Dick also felt flat to me. His line to Aqualad about him being Dawn's rebound felt awkward and weird for him to say outloud, lol.
• Garth seemed sweet but he was totally defined by his feelings for Donna here. I feel like the show made him a vehicle for Donna's eventual woman-pain at his death. He didn't seem to really exist outside of his feelings for her.
• I knew Aqualad was going to die, but it still felt rushed. Even the reaction to his death wasn't given the weight I thought it should have. I wish there had been a slow-motion reveal of Donna coming back to the Tower with a sad song and everyone reacting to him being gone - then maybe I would have felt the team chemistry a bit better.
• All in all, I felt like the buildup for Aqualad being killed might have worked better in flashbacks over time? Or even with them jumping back and forth between present day and back then? His death should have been huge stakes but it didn't really because we met him and lost him all in one episode.
• The pacing this episode felt a bit off - there wasn't enough tension except with Donna/Garth - but even that felt odd because I didn't know what her destiny was. Did they mention it and I missed it?
• I dunno - I just wasn't feeling a whole episode focused on these Titans, sorry. I missed Kory, Gar and Rachel and especially Jason. This episode kinda felt like seeing a couple instantly put together - I guess I prefer seeing the new Titans coming together as a team over seeing the OG Titans instantly a team in a flashback.

I'm really hoping next week the stakes feel higher and we get back to present day with the Core 4 Titans and Jason driving story with the OG Titans in the backseat except to explain WTF is going on to the new Titans. I don't mind the OG Titans, but I'm getting really salty that the show still hasn't done Kory or Gar justice in their stories, yet all of these other characters keep getting so much focus - like whole damn episodes. 

I'm looking forward to next week - I love Deathstroke and I'm interested to see how that plays out.  But for the love of God - PLEASE don't make the whole episode a flashback.

Edited September 28, 2019 by phoenics

[Jenniferbug]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I'm already hooked on Donna/Garth and it was taken from me so fast! I guess in this version the Aqua's arent bulletproof? I do wish they would've put in a little line about Aquaman or JL after Garths death because I can't accept that either wouldn't be hunting down Deathstroke for killing a sidekick unless they had some sort of reason.

That seemed odd to be me too. You'd think there would be some mention of them calling Arthur or someone. Maybe they'll drop that mention when we get the other half of the story? 

I'm still holding onto a sliver of hope that because we didn't see a funeral, he might be alive in Atlantis in a coma or something. Likely? No. But I I to live in denial sometimes!

46 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I really enjoyed this episode, although the internal timeline seemed off.

We see Donna talking to Jillian about going back to Themiscyra early, and Jillian says "my show ends in two weeks, if you still want to leave, you can go back with me then." Not too much later, Donna is telling Dick she has to leave "tonight." So I'm thinking, it's been two weeks already? Whew!

Then we see that it is still the night of Garth's birthday, suggesting the whole episode took place in a single day(!), except we see Donna later talking to Jillian about staying, and it seems like it must be a while later- but when she comes back to Titans Tower, Hank and Dawn are taking down the decorations... so the next day? Weird.

Yeah I couldn't make sense of the timeline either. The best I could come up with is hand waving that my college roommates and I left up decorations for a long time, partly because it was festive and partly because we were too lazy (and sometimes too busy partying) to take them down. They'd be right about that age so I guess it wouldn't shock me if they left them up for a couple of weeks and then when he died took them down immediately. 

[phoenics]

57 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Then we see that it is still the night of Garth's birthday, suggesting the whole episode took place in a single day(!), except we see Donna later talking to Jillian about staying, and it seems like it must be a while later- but when she comes back to Titans Tower, Hank and Dawn are taking down the decorations... so the next day? Weird.

I don't think it's the same day.  I think that after Garth was killed (and it was night) Donna didn't go back to the tower - she stayed with Jillian somewhere and then left Jillian the next day to go back to the Titans Tower.  When she arrived back then it was nighttime.

That sequence of events felt like a huge missed opportunity to me.  I would have preferred Donna go back that night - devastated and telling the other Titans what happened (with a music montage overlaying slow motion scenes of the Titans reacting and her devastation).  The scene with her and Jillian felt like a waste and the scene of the Titans pulling down decorations but standing stoicly just didn't do Garth's death justice for me.

I felt like the music this episode let the show down too.

[Sakura12]

This show does need to work it's on pacing I was confused on how long that all took. Or they need a better editor. That's the main thing from stopping this show from being better. The flow is always off. 

I think Dr. Light broke into the bank the next morning, then they investigated and fought him the next night. That's when Donna told Dick she was leaving. It was all Donna wanting to leave, Jillian was willing to let her have her 6 months, then said she could leave in 2 weeks if that's what she wanted. I'm guessing Donna asked if Jillian can find an earlier flight home. That's when she said they could leave that night. Then it was the next morning or day when Donna went back to the tower. So I think it all happened in 5ish days. 

So it looks like Donna staying Man's world to work with the Titan's was a temporary thing granted to her by the Amazon's. That's why she didn't want to start anything with Garth. Then it looked like she asked to leave earlier than her allowed time, probably so she wouldn't have to keep making excuses to turn him down. As for why she had to leave, from the Wonder Woman movie the Amazon's are not supposed to leave Themyscira. Diana did to help with the war and her mother told she couldn't come back if she left. This version seems to allow some to leave on temporary assignments. 

It also looks like in this version, Diana saved Donna from the fire that killed her dad when she was 5/6 years old, then took her to Themyscira and gave Donna her powers and made her an Amazon. It looks Diana became her "mother" instead of Hippolyta. The Amazon accepted her as one of their own so she probably has to make the commitment to be an Amazon warrior to protect Themyscira.

The Garth flashbacks should have probably been sprinkled throughout the season so we could get to know him better than just being a guy hung up on Donna. I did buy that the sidekicks all hung out together when the Justice League met up. But they have to have them recount stories of that time instead of showing us. I did like the finding Nemo story though. But I didn't really get a feel for Garth's personality. 

With Dick, Dawn and Hank. I think Dawn and Hank had the one time hook up after they killed? the couch. Then Dawn met Dick and they started dating, but Dawn and Hank still kept touch or went out and fought crime together but were not sleeping together. After Deathstroke, Dick probably pushed everyone away, especially Dawn and she eventually went back to Hank. Hank was in a better place 5 years ago so I could buy him being happier or maybe that's when he started taking drugs and that's why he was happier. 

Donna knows how to fight too, she's an Amazon warrior, the lasso is cool and all but I want to see Donna use her other powers. I mean I guess if they used their most powerful to fight rando thugs and Dr. Light it would be too easy for them. Donna could knock them out in one punch or send them across the street. So they use their human fighters for those missions and save their big guns if things get messy. Maybe we'll finally get more with Deathstroke since it looks like they thought they defeated him since they thought he was dead. And he did look like he was still in pain when we first saw him at his cabin. 

As for the target, it did look like Donna was the target since he shot Garth and was still looking around for her. Then he left probably to wait for another chance. So I'm hoping we'll get a good Deathstroke vs. Wonder Girl fight. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Sakura12

[MarkHB]

Unexpected moment of the night for me: Jilllian's sudden badass turn when she pulled out a shuriken and split the bullet in half.

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

With Dick, Dawn and Hank. I think Dawn and Hank had the one time hook up after they killed? the couch. Then Dawn met Dick and they started dating, but Dawn and Hank still kept touch or went out and fought crime together but were not sleeping together. After Deathstroke, Dick probably pushed everyone away, especially Dawn and she eventually went back to Hank. Hank was in a better place 5 years ago so I could buy him being happier or maybe that's when he started taking drugs and that's why he was happier. 

I have a question:  where are people getting the idea that Dawn/Hank only had one night and not a whole relationship?  I didn't get that impression at all.  I got that Dawn said she couldn't continue that way but I never took that as a break up?  Did I miss that in S1?

Also - I don't think "Dawn met Dick".  I think H&Dove met Robin and eventually they became Titans.  Based on what Dick said to Garth about "Hank and Dove crashing and burning", I don't think that fits with the current fan comments I've seen here and other places that Hank and Dove only had a one night stand.  IF that's the case, Dick wouldn't be thinking of himself as a rebound.  At all.

My head canon before this episode and during it was that Hank and Dawn had a full blown relationship that was longterm but sometime after they joined the Titans, they had some kind of epic crash and burn break up.  Then Dawn got with Dick.  And according to him, in a kind of rebound way (maybe he senses she's not really his but really Hank's?).

That's why, for me, Hank looking almost like he didn't even know Dawn like that was just way OOC and weird.

Also - why would Hank be in a better place 5 years ago?  Because they were fighting?  I could see that - but this is still the Hank who has his brother's death, his sexual abuse by the coach and everything else still there.  Unless we're supposed to realize he was 100% high the whole episode?  In which case, the writers failed because they never gave any hint of that.  They just neutered the character and turned him into a very flat character - all the depth of Hank was abandoned for this episode.  And if I'm being honest, Robin felt the same - like all the depth was just sucked out of him.  Dawn was a whispering cypher as usual so no shock there (except in her interactions with Donna which were nice).

[Sakura12]

I didn't get the impression they had a full blown relationship. They killed the coach together than had sex. Then Dawn said she couldn't do that anymore probably because it was just them feeding off their shared pain and getting off on the violence. Which is the crash and burn part.  Everything was still to raw for them to be together.  I think they kept fighting together as Hawk and Dove but were not sleeping together. Then they met Robin who asked them to join him and Donna as Titans. Then Dawn and Dick got together. 

We saw that Hank still enjoyed the violence of beating up people and was already pretty drunk when it looked like the party just started. So I think we were seeing drunk Hank who may or may not have been on drugs as well. The focus wasn't on him so we don't know what he was actually feeling. I also kind of thought his making fun of Garth for not being able to get the girl was him projecting his own failure on not being able to be with Dawn. So he drank and put on a happy face. This show has a weird habit of naming the episode after character and focusing on another character. It happened with Kory and now with Aqualad. This episode was clearly about Donna. 

I think the Deathstroke thing the downfall for them all. Dick tried to be like Batman and lead a team and he failed. He got really angry and blamed Bruce for everything. He pushed Dawn and the Titans away, Donna was dealing with her own grief so she wasn't there to talk to him so he went down the dark path we saw when we met him in the first episode. Same with Hank and Dawn they threw themselves into the violence again, got together officially and crashed even harder into drugs for Hank and risk taking for Dawn. Donna seemed to be the only one in a better place when we met her. I'm guessing she went back home with Jillian and was surrounded by women who helped her heal. Then she decided to come back to Man's world not as Wonder Girl but as Donna Troy and try to make a difference that way. 

I think the chemistry being off worked because while we only see 4/5 days in their flashback we could see it looked okay on the outside but were not very close. They were more like college roommates that hung out sometimes and beat people up. But they were not all best friends. Besides Dick and Donna. Dawn and Hank they probably just met a few years prior and Aqualad was a childhood friend that joined 4 months prior. Donna seemed like she kept to herself most of the time since she knew it was only temporary and didn't want to get close to anyone else. She didn't even bother to say goodbye to Hank and Dawn. The only person that got a sort of goodbye was Dick.

I guess in this version Diana and Bruce hung out a lot together and brought their side kicks along since Dick and Donna think of each other as family. 

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I didn't get the impression they had a full blown relationship. They killed the coach together than had sex. Then Dawn said she couldn't do that anymore probably because it was just them feeding off their shared pain and getting off on the violence. Which is the crash and burn part.  Everything was still to raw for them to be together.  I think they kept fighting together as Hawk and Dove but were not sleeping together. Then they met Robin who asked them to join him and Donna as Titans. Then Dawn and Dick got together. 

I just went back and watched - you're right she did wake up and say they couldn't be together like that.  

I think I figured out what bothered me so much about the lack of connection between the characters (and the actors playing them) in yesterday's episode.  As much as I was pissed at how the Hank and Dawn episode took away from focus on Kory/Gar (characters who deserved an empathetic backstory), the episode as a standalone was very very good and gripping.  It dug into who Dawn and Hank were as people - so I could identify with them.  I even felt like I got to know and understand Don and even Dawn's mother.  And Even though D/H technically broke up in the episode, the sex part with them was only the last part.  They were deeply connected and bonded in everything else - including emotionally.  They looked in love before they had sex.

This episode wasn't as good at fleshing out the characters deeply, imo.  

Also - Hank wasn't drunk in the episode.  He had a beer in that one scene (so did everyone else), but in all the rest he was definitely sober.  I think he felt a little more like Hank in the scene where they're tossing around the football, but I was still jarred that he seemed so fine with Dawn being with Dick.  I just think the writers should have done that differently given everything they set up in S1 flashbacks and even the dream sequence Dick had in the finale, which showed Hank still trying to be convince Dawn she belonged elsewhere (not with Dick). 

It makes me wonder if the writers have decided to scrap plans for a spin off with Hank and Dawn.

I think the chemistry being off worked because while we only see 4/5 days in their flashback we could see it looked okay on the outside but were not very close. They were more like college roommates that hung out sometimes and beat people up. But they were not all best friends. Besides Dick and Donna. Dawn and Hank they probably just met a few years prior and Aqualad was a childhood friend that joined 4 months prior.

I felt chemistry between Jason and Dick when they met.  Rachel/Gar I felt gel instantly - and they didn't know each other either.  Same with Dick/Kory - that antagonistic initial meet-cute worked.  And all 4 of them together just worked. 

I'm saying the chemistry of the OGs in this episode was flat because the actors - no matter how hot they all are - were flat together, imo.  They don't have the same kind of spark that the Core 4 do together.  Part of that is the writing for the episode and part of that is I felt some of the actors were kinda phoning it in (Minka and Brenton).

My hope is that with the threat of Deathstroke looming, the writing will improve and give the actors better material to work with, allowing me to see their chemistry a bit better.  The lack of stakes in this episode for most of it probably hurt a bit.

[Cthulhudrew]

Lots of good observations. I agree with the general sentiment that something seemed off with the characters. 

Re: Hank and Dick, I think I can buy some of the observations above that Hank and Dawn may not have been together after that initial hookup. At the same time, my feeling was that the writers may have been trying to smooth over relations and make Dick and Dawn seem more like good people, because the impression I got from last season's "Hawk and Dove" was that there was tention between Hank and Dick over the Dawn relationship, and the flashbacks felt very much like Dick and Dawn had been in an affair. 

Re: Dick- I thought he felt a little off, too, if only because I didn't buy that he wouldn't have gotten a Cyrano de Bergerac reference. I suppose the idea that Bruce only focused his training on crimefighting fits the narrative for this particular show, but it really doesn't seem in keeping with Batman's MO and the Dick Grayson of the comics (both of whom seem are very broadly versed in all sorts of areas of knowledge- from criminal justice to the liberal arts).

I also found it a little weird that Donna was cowering behind cover while Aqualad ran out to confront Dr. Light, and that it took Dick and Donna so long to run to his defense, but I guess I will write that off as dramatic tension. I did think the fight choreography was pretty good, especially the Hawk/Dawn teamwork, as phoenics point out up above.

[Sakura12]

That's probably because we saw them meeting for the first time. That's easier to play then having already had a shared history. That mostly has to come across through exposition. Plus we has a whole season to get to know them as a team. If we has a whole season with the OG Titans then it might be different.

I bought the connection between Dick and Donna and Donna and Garth. Where the connection was missing was between Dick and Donna with Hank and Dawn. They still feel like the outsiders of the group. Which I guess makes sense, they were not part of the side kick crew. They were outsiders that Dick and Donna met later.

I wonder when Arrows over and they can get Roy Harper if he'll show up. He and Donna are cute together in the comics.

I do agree that this show is missing something to make it better. It lacks depth and a true plan. We can say what we want about the Arrowverse shows but they at least look like they planned out their seasons. This one feels like they are throwing things together hoping it works. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Sakura12

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I bought the connection between Dick and Donna and Donna and Garth. Where the connection was missing was between Dick and Donna with Hank and Dawn. They still feel like the outsiders of the group. Which I guess makes sense, they were not part of the side kick crew. They were outsiders that Dick and Donna met later.

Meh - Dick, Donna, Hank and Dawn work fine all together in the other episodes this season.  Maybe they filmed this episode before all of that - the actors just didn't seem natural together.  Or maybe it's just that the writing for this episode was a bit stilted and didn't give Dick, Dawn and Hank much to work with - Brenton and Minka especially felt like they phoned it in.  Alan seemed to work for it but he really got crumbs this episode.

It makes me appreciate Anna Diop and Ryan Potter all the more - because they get crumbs nearly every episode and always manage to infuse so much into the crumbs they get.  Anna - to her credit - can make a scene solely by strutting across the room with that walk of hers.  She doesn't even have to say a word.

4 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Re: Hank and Dick, I think I can buy some of the observations above that Hank and Dawn may not have been together after that initial hookup. At the same time, my feeling was that the writers may have been trying to smooth over relations and make Dick and Dawn seem more like good people, because the impression I got from last season's "Hawk and Dove" was that there was tention between Hank and Dick over the Dawn relationship, and the flashbacks felt very much like Dick and Dawn had been in an affair. 

I don't know why I never thought they had an affair - I think I must have thought that Dick dating Dawn was seen as a huge betrayal by Hank (but not because they cheated, but because it's still kinda shady of Dawn to date Dick with poor Hank RIGHT THERE) - so maybe that's also why I was thrown off that he didn't seem bothered at all in this episode.  But I do agree with you that last night's episode felt like an attempt by the writers to "clean up" Dick/Dawn.  The only thing is - they sucked the life and energy out of all three of them by taking away that subtext.  The trio kinda lost their spark by removing that.

In the present, Dick and Hank seem to have a tenuous truce - but it works for them in scenes and they play that well.  It makes the bro scenes they have (like the one in ep 3) feel significant because you know they have that old drama with Dawn.

Ep4 just pretended like that didn't exist and I don't get why.  Maybe D/D did have an affair.

I feel like Dick works best when he gets pushback from someone - either Kory, Hank, Jason or someone... he plays off of that well.  It gives him intensity.  Without it he tends to kinda fall flat a bit - or earnest.  Alan's Hank just seems to work well having someone to banter with and the episode was scarce on that - there was a little with Aqualad.

[Sakura12]

If they had an affair I would've expected more from Hank. Them having one night together and Dawn deciding it's too hard being with him because he reminds her of the loss of her mother and breaking it off with him makes more sense. Hank was probably not happy with that but accepted it. They met Robin when they were not together so when Dawn starts dating Dick he can't say anything, Dawn doesn't belong to him she can date whoever she wants. 

Then when we see them 4 years after Hank probably still thinks Dawn has feelings for Dick since that break up was caused by Dick pushing her away so he can wallow in his anger. Not because she stopped wanting to be with him. 

Dick didn't just stew in anger for 4 years. He became a detective in that time. I guess he just walked off that job last season. He was trying something different like they all did. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Sakura12

[AnimeMania]

Did Hank become an addict (not even sure what kind he was) before or after Aqualad's death?

[MarkHB]

49 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Did Hank become an addict (not even sure what kind he was) before or after Aqualad's death?

My interpretation is that he became addicted to opiates as a result of medicating his numerous injuries.

[phoenics]

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Did Hank become an addict (not even sure what kind he was) before or after Aqualad's death?

It's implied he was on heavy medication before Aqualad when it was just Dawn and Hank.  Which means he could've been abusing prescription drugs before he moved on to harder stuff.

[Sakura12]

I wonder if they made Donna/Garth an established relationship since they were kids. They could've been engaged or something it would've added more feeling to his death. If they needed the Amazon thing they could've had the Amazon's not approve of Donna marrying an Atlantian, then she could've broken off the engagement and get called back to Themyscira, he runs after at the airport, they make up and then he dies. His death would've given more weight to Donna which the episode was about anyway.  

[Lyanna19]

@Jenniferbug I know that the Lazarus pit can be tempting to wanna use,

Spoiler

(Batman even considered for one wild moment to throw Jason Todd in one, but then his better judgement took control)

but the way I understand those pits is that someone who has been in one, comes out a little insane (?) can anyone confirm? 🤔

But I want Aqualad back too! We only had him for one tiny episode! 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Lyanna19
Added spoiler tag

[Sakura12]

Yeah, the Lazarus Pits starts to strip away your humanity. Ra's ah Ghul kept using it and it made him insane. On the Arrowverse they put 2 characters in the pits, one was close to death and she came back with a bloodlust, the second character had been dead for a year and she came back basically as a feral animal, they needed Constantine to give her back her soul. Then she still had a lust to kill for a awhile. 

So using the LP wouldn't be good for Garth. He probably wouldn't come back the same. That's one common thing across the board, resurrection rarely works out the way you want it too. 

[Jenniferbug]

Yeah, there are side effects with the Lazarus pits, but the Arrowverse characters seem to go back to their normal selves eventually. Mostly? Not sure I was paying much attention to Arrow at the time the second character went in and came back with bloodlust. I remember it being a plot point for a couple of episodes until it wasn't and she seemed pretty back to normal after that. Wait. Maybe I'm thinking of the first character who went in. I really need to rewatch Arrow sometime. 

Hm. Maybe I should stick to "we didn't see a funeral, therefore he can still be secretly alive somewhere" instead. 😆

[Sakura12]

In Arrow they apparently found some flower that could cure the bloodlust for the first character. The second one got trapped in the 1950's for 2 years and rejoined the League of Assassins to learn to control her bloodlust. Titans seems to want to be darker so I can't see them going with a happy outcome if the pits are used. 

From thinking about it Donna or Jillian had to be the target. Because Slade was at the airport where Donna and Jillian were. Garth only showed up because Dick told him where Donna was. He would not have been there otherwise. 

[Jenniferbug]

Fair point, @Sakura12, Titans would definitely go as dark as possible after using a pit. 

Good point that Garth likely wasn't the target. Unless Slade tracked him to rue airport, but not sure why he wouldn't have killed him enroute. 

[phoenics]

I definitely think Donna or Jillian was the target - because Slade kept firing even after Garth was down and searched for Donna/Jillian after the fact before quickly giving up and exiting stage left.

[Lyanna19]

Does anyone know what the deaf guy is gonna be used for, why Dick saught him out, and Slade? 🤔 

[Sakura12]

11 minutes ago, Lyanna19 said:

Does anyone know what the deaf guy is gonna be used for, why Dick saught him out, and Slade? 🤔 

Jericho is Slade's son. The brother that Rose said her dad killed. While I think the actor is deaf, Jericho had his throat slit and can't talk because of it. They did show a close up of the scar on his throat so I think they are going with that backstory. 

[Lyanna19]

4 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Jericho is Slade's son. The brother that Rose said her dad killed. While I think the actor is deaf, Joe had his throat slit and can't talk because of it. They did show a close up of the scar on his throat so I think they are going with that backstory. 

Thank you! How did I not know this? 🤔 🤷‍♂️ 

[Ottis]

After a great start in season one, you’re losing me fast Titans. For some reason you have gone all CW on me. Garth loves Donna, Donna can’t forgive Garth, now Dawn loves Dick (hey, when did that happen?) after Dawn loved Hank, everyone asks Dick for love advice. Ugh. Way too much soap opera. I was praying for Deathstroke to appear for half the episode.