Season Five: Don't Fear the Reaper

[BkWurm1]

More than a year later and I only buy into it more and more. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Sigh. I started watching this again last night. I'm of two minds: It was a good season. We saw Tom Wopat Luke Duke make an appearance; but it's also the season that we lose Jonathan. I'm not happy about that. I know when it happened, I was shocked.  I didn't pay much attention to spoilers or read the online articles, etc., so when Jonathan died, I was a mess. I remember screaming "It should have been LANA!" at my television screen.

 

The premiere was pretty awesome, and I loved all the Clark and Chloe scenes, where she, frozen to an icicle almost, asked him to super speed them out of the Fortress.  And then her telling him how she always suspected, which was true and told him when she learned.  I thought by "Jinx" in the previous season, she pretty much knew, and Alicia just confirmed it.  

 

Tom and Allison are just so good together. And I know I keep saying this, but hey, I've got 10 threads or more to talk about it, but it enrages me how Souders and Petersen totally SHIT upon this friendship, just so they could lightswitch the eternal and OTP that is Clark and Lois.  But I will sit back and enjoy this wonderful friendship.

[Chloe]

 

Tom and Allison are just so good together. And I know I keep saying this, but hey, I've got 10 threads or more to talk about it, but it enrages me how Souders and Petersen totally SHIT upon this friendship, just so they could lightswitch the eternal and OTP that is Clark and Lois.  But I will sit back and enjoy this wonderful friendship.

 

True. Season 9 speaks for itself.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Luke Duke!!!!!!

 

Clark to Martha: "You're my heart. My soul."

 

Me: blubbering mess, blinking tears, watching Clark bend down to hold Martha, while she's standing on tippy toes, with Shelby sitting there, watching them.

 

So many great emotional beats this season.

 

I find myself grinning in each and every scene with Clark and Chloe.

 

Santa Claus Clark!

 

I'm on tenterhooks, because I know the next episode is when we lose Jonathan.

 

Me: Noooooo!!!!

 

I know it's Clark's fault, lying not telling Lana the truth, but the way Welling expresses his fear, confusion and guilt, well, I just can't hate him when he gets all hypocritical with Lana, when he accuses her of not being honest.

 

And as I watched the scene after Lana theorized what if there were people from the original meteor shower "living among us all this time" which took place in the next episode, and Lana asked Clark to kiss her? Well, it just came off...well, that he'd fallen out of love with her. Well, the conversation that took place, and especially Clark's line to Lana about how he wanted to be with her for sooo long, and now he didn't want to screw it up? That was a ding!ding! moment for me-yes, Clark, you wanted her for soo long, that now that you've got her, what you idealized didn't live up to your expectations, so why didn't you just end it with her? Then of course, she dropped her book and paper of the ship and confesses she and Lex have been working together to "find out the truth."

 

I would have been spared three more seasons of LANALANALANA.

 

It's odd. Now that I'm watching this again, in a non-stop marathon, Sheriff Cheshire grew on me and I was sad when she was killed. Huh.

 

Why haven't I been able to warm up to Lana, then? Hmmm? And it's not like I don't like the character; I loved Superman: The Animated Series's Lana Lang.  I even enjoyed Annette O'Toole's Lana.

 

The beginning of "Vengeance" has a lot of emotional stuff, and made me teary.

 

But, Clark and Chloe working together to try and bring Angel of Vengeance to them is hilarious. With Chloe's:

 

"No, stop, please, help."

 

Clark rips off his ski mask and says:

 

"You gotta give it more feeling! Some passion."

 

Chloe: "STOOOOPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!"

 

Me: Laughing hysterically.

 

Because I can't say it enough: Tom and Allison are just magic together.

Edited October 16, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh my goodness! I should have waited until the end of "Vengeance" to post above, because if the beginning had me teary, the last scene when Clark wears Jonathan's watch and then breaks down in Martha's arms, had me bawling.

 

I'm trying to think, but I believe that Season five is the most emotional season.

 

Oh yes, it's a proven television fact that when a character says "I would never be" or "I would never do" means that yes, they would! I'm speaking of course of Lana telling Chloe she would "NEVER" be with Lex, only to end up kissing him at the end of the episode. Exception being Chloe, who never betrayed Clark's secret.

 

Lord, but I detest "Hypnotic." I can't pinpoint why, specifically.  And now I can't recall if it was at that episode's end or the next one, where Chloe asked if Clark ever had sex with Simone and I laughed at Clark's "GOD, no!" Just the way Welling said it and the look on his face.

 

And when Lex tells Lana that he would "never" lie to her? Yep, even though I suspect it was a retcon based on Lex's original reaction to learning that Lana was pregnant, he did lie to her; and also a lie by omission, in that he set Clark up to not only break him and Lana up, but to discover his secret.

 

I'm all over the place but also loved Clark's line to Lionel at the end of "Mercy" when Lionel again, calls him "son."

 

Clark: "You don't get to say that. Jonathan Kent was my father."

 

Lionel: "I would never try to take his place--"

 

Clark: "You couldn't." And then walks away.

 

I really love this...seething angry Clark, with a dollop of contempt and distrust.  Makes Tom look even hotter. What? Y'all know how shallow I can be!

 

And I really really hate how the show thinks that we, okay, me, would be okay with Lionel trying to get with Martha, not even a week after Jonathan's death. Hell, even a day.  And I'll let the first time pass, because Martha was still grieving hard, but the second, third and fourth time? Or even when Lionel said whatever about coming "between us."

 

I was screaming there is no "US" you bastard!

 

Ugh. Up to "Oracle" now and I just realized, that Lana is so quick to slam Clark and defend whichever guy she is with and get all judgy, yet I've never seen her defend Clark when he's been hurt or sick. On the contrary, she can't "handle" it when Clark has been hurt or sick.  All it took was a week? Two? after Lex and Lana have gotten together and lookie...she's dressing like she's been a socialite for yeeeeeears.  Does she have a trust fund? Oh, wait, didn't Lex buy her out regarding the Talon? Maybe that's where she gets all the money.

 

"Tomb" was another favorite. Not in terms of the episode plot itself, but of how good a friend Clark was to Chloe; and it emphasized what a stupid idiot Lana is. And Lois. I mean, this is Smallville, and this happens to Chloe and Chloe is telling them she saw something, and what does igit do? Go running to Lex. Please, send Chloe to Belle Reive, where all the crazy meteor freaks are.  Even Lex thinking Chloe is sick. Whatever, to fill in the plot point.  But I loved how Clark believed her and was there for her. I just love their friendship.

 

And I teared up when Chloe went to see her mom at the end.

 

And doubt it not, I'll back after I finish up with this season, about an hour or so.

[GHScorpiosRule]

THAT KISS IN VESSEL!!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

"Hidden" when Clark shows up at the end and tells Jonathan and Martha that he's "not human anymore."

 

Me: Umm, Clark? you were never human. You're an alien. From another galaxy.

 

I get what the show was trying to do/say, but it was stupid.

[DigitalCount]

"Hidden" when Clark shows up at the end and tells Jonathan and Martha that he's "not human anymore."

Me: Umm, Clark? you were never human. You're an alien. From another galaxy.

I get what the show was trying to do/say, but it was stupid.

It's even dumber in Season 8.

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's even dumber in Season 8.

 

Oh, the whole narrative of how Clark has "always been alone" or "never felt he belonged" or that he had NO ONE, NO FAMILY OF HIS OWN that the asshats decided to give him for the rest of the series' run, was just rage inducing. As if Jonathan and Martha didn't love him or care for him, or everything else they did for this ungrateful BDA.

[amensisterfriend]

I've come to really love this season and kind of hate myself for it :) Which S5 episodes/story arcs did you guys like the most?! 

[BkWurm1]

Season five is a favorite of mine as well. 

 

I can't help love Chloe's entry into the DP.  That was such a big deal to me.  I also loved how hopeful I was that Lois was going to die, lol.  Ah, good times.  I liked how it seemed like FINALLY they were going to break up Clana for good, so loved that even if it wasn't true.  Just loved seeing the Fortress and Clark and Chloe growing so close.  Loved how well they used Chloe.  And of course I ended the season with such high hopes.   

[DittyDotDot]

I can't say that one season jumps out as a favorite to me. I'm in the midst of S10 right now and probably should wait before declaring anything, but I think they all had some good things and all had some problems as well.

 

I guess I'd probably go with S4 or S5 as a favorite just because I think Lex was the most complicated and compelling in those seasons. I'm less drawn into the show since his departure, so the later seasons would be at the bottom of this list, I guess.

 

I think S4 was the season I felt compelled to first come here and discuss it. I don't know if that makes it good or bad? That's probably the point I realized I was in it til the end, though.

[Athena]

I guess I'd probably go with S4 or S5 as a favorite just because I think Lex was the most complicated and compelling in those seasons. I'm less drawn into the show since his departure, so the later seasons would be at the bottom of this list, I guess.

 

Yes, this was one of my favourite seasons as well because of Lex. This was the season where he had a turning point. He tried to be a "good" guy in the first three seasons, but he started to really change and become more jaded in S4-S5. I enjoyed that he finally fell out with Clark and even though Lex had issues, I agreed with him more than Clark in how it ended.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yeah, as much as Clark looked like a hypocritical Big Dumb Ass when he would accuse Lex of lying and being dishonest, since he was doing the same thing, sometimes I would side with Clark-when it came to who and what he was. Why? Because of the lying Lex did when he was digging up information on Clark, stealing his blood, but acting as if he wasn't. Or the lying about the Nicodemus, setting up the theft of the kryptonite. And all this was during the seasons when he was GOOD.

I mean, the premise was that he couldn't tell anyone his secret. I just wish his lies could be more believable-that is, not come off as him being a bad liar, and looking like he was lying-and BADLY, at that. Or use the truth, but leave out the super stuff. Or just say "none of your business" or "I can't tell you."

At least his identity wasn't known to everyFREAKIN'body like Barry's is on The Flash!

Edited March 13, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Bitterswete]

Yes, this was one of my favourite seasons as well because of Lex. This was the season where he had a turning point. He tried to be a "good" guy in the first three seasons, but he started to really change and become more jaded in S4-S5. I enjoyed that he finally fell out with Clark and even though Lex had issues, I agreed with him more than Clark in how it ended.

 

I agree with most of this except for the part about Lex trying to be a good guy. To me, that implies that Lex was never really good. It was just an act he was putting on for everybody (including himself), and him turning to the dark side was him finally dropping the act.

 

But I think that, in the early seasons, Lex had genuine goodness in him but he also had that dark side (he was raised by Lionel after all) that caused him to do something questionable every now and again. And those two sides were battling with each other. Through the early days of the show, his goodness was in charge. (That was kind of what "Onyx" was about.) But then things happened that pushed him further and further towards the dark side. If lots of positive things had happened to him instead, I think he would've gone in the opposite direction.

 

Really, if Lex had been innately evil, he would've eagerly followed in Lionel's footsteps from the beginning, and it wouldn't have taken so much badness to get him to finally turn to the dark side.

 

I mean, the premise was that he couldn't tell anyone his secret. I just wish his lies could be more believable-that is, not come off as him being a bad liar, and looking like he was lying-and BADLY, at that.

 

What got me was when Clark would lie about things that he really didn't have to lie about. I think he just got used to lying about anything that had to do with his powers at all, even if it was in the most indirect way possible.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Bitterswete

[BkWurm1]

Like when he and Lionel swapped bodies. Once Lex knew about Smallville's latest wall of weird entry, why did he hide the truth from Chloe or Lana for that matter? It was wholly unnecessary.

[Athena]

On 2016-03-16 at 11:52 PM, Bitterswete said:

I agree with most of this except for the part about Lex trying to be a good guy. To me, that implies that Lex was never really good. It was just an act he was putting on for everybody (including himself), and him turning to the dark side was him finally dropping the act.

 

But I think that, in the early seasons, Lex had genuine goodness in him but he also had that dark side (he was raised by Lionel after all) that caused him to do something questionable every now and again. And those two sides were battling with each other. Through the early days of the show, his goodness was in charge. (That was kind of what "Onyx" was about.) But then things happened that pushed him further and further towards the dark side. If lots of positive things had happened to him instead, I think he would've gone in the opposite direction.

 

Really, if Lex had been innately evil, he would've eagerly followed in Lionel's footsteps from the beginning, and it wouldn't have taken so much badness to get him to finally turn to the dark side.

 

 

What got me was when Clark would lie about things that he really didn't have to lie about. I think he just got used to lying about anything that had to do with his powers at all, even if it was in the most indirect way possible.

 

I agree with this. I think Lex on this show is inherently good and this is why this Lex remains my favourite of all Superman incarnations I've seen. I think there was a complexity to the writing and acting for the particular character. In contrast to other adaptations where Lex was written as more cold. I think my use of try is that Lex, like most of us, doe actively try to be who we are or who we want to be with whatever moral codes, ethics, personalities, etc. we've been given. I think Lex up until S4 was good and actively tried in his way to be that, but as you say, when push came to shove, he changed and became darker.

 

I couldn't deal with Clark lying to Lex either. I know Clark was a kid and they had a unique friendship, but it felt wrong that he kept lying to Lex.

[DittyDotDot]

On 2016-03-17 at 10:10 AM, Athena said:

I agree with this. I think Lex on this show is inherently good and this is why this Lex remains my favourite of all Superman incarnations I've seen. I think there was a complexity to the writing and acting for the particular character. In contrast to other adaptations where Lex was written as more cold. I think my use of try is that Lex, like most of us, does actively try to be who we are or who we want to be with whatever moral codes, ethics, personalities, etc. we've been given. I think Lex up until S4 was good and actively tried in his way to be that, but as you say, when push came to shove, he changed and became darker.

 

I couldn't deal with Clark lying to Lex either. I know Clark was a kid and they had a unique friendship, but it felt wrong that he kept lying to Lex.

 

I think that's exactly what makes Lex of the Smallville universe so interesting; he is neither good or bad. The best villains never are, IMO. In his own messed up way, he was trying to save the planet, not destroy it; he just went about it wrong more often than not.

 

I get why they had to do the lying and subterfuge with Lex--he was destined to become Clark's nemesis--I just think the turn from friend to foe would've been far more earned if I had been convinced Clark ever really saw Lex as a friend.

[Bitterswete]

I couldn't deal with Clark lying to Lex either. I know Clark was a kid and they had a unique friendship, but it felt wrong that he kept lying to Lex.

 

I get why they had to do the lying and subterfuge with Lex--he was destined to become Clark's nemesis--I just think the turn from friend to foe would've been far more earned if I had been convinced Clark ever really saw Lex as a friend.

 

The producers said two things that always stuck in my head. (Partly because we discussed them quite a bit on the other board.) The first was that they wanted to portray Lex as being a better friend to Clark than Clark was to Lex. And the second was that they wanted Clark to have a hand in creating his greatest enemy. So, a lot of the time, they had Clark act a certain way towards Lex on purpose as part of the theme they were going for.

 

I think they wanted Clark to have this powerful, heart breaking moment at the end of the show where he realizes Lex might not have become a villain (and they might still be friends) if Clark had done things differently.

 

The problem was that they weren't the best at executing on this idea. But even if they had done it really well, the way Clark treated Lex sometimes just made Clark look bad, and really affected how I felt about his character.

 

I actually think that's what Clark's "I'm sorry I couldn't save you Lex" line in the finale was all about. Clark taking some responsibility for how Lex turns out. Only, the way it's worded, it sounds like Clark did everything he could to try to "save" Lex, including being the most supportive friend he could possibly be. Which is a total crock.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Bitterswete

[GHScorpiosRule]

I actually think that's what Clark's "I'm sorry I couldn't save you Lex" line in the finale was all about. Clark taking some responsibility for how Lex turns out. Only, the way it's worded, it sounds like Clark did everything he could to try to "save" Lex, including being the most supportive friend he could possibly be. Which is a total crock.

 

Agree. And sadly, in the first two seasons? He actually was. His friends and parents accused him of blindly supporting Lex, how Lex was now his new best friend, spending all this time with Lex, when Pete used to be his best friend.  To the point in "Nicodemus" I think it was, when Pete, infected, came after Lex with a gun to kill him, so he could get Clark back as his friend.  

 

Most times Clark was right. But not during "Nicodemus" and which was the episode in season two, I think it was, when Martha "had" to work on a Saturday/her anniverary, and it turned out Lex was behind the theft. I don't think Clark ever found out. But there was Lex knowing about that tabloid reporter, who Lex killed in "Vortex."

 

But yeah, with all the stuff that was a result of the effect of kryptonite for all the freaks of the weeks, why Clark could never use that as the reason for his bizarre behavior, acting out of character, instead of "I'm sorry, I can't tell you" or "I can't explain" was just rage inducing for me. 

 

Topic:

 

Yeah, though I consider this season one of the best, the whole Clark/Lana "FINALLY!!!" getting together, breaking up, and all that shit, was aggravating, to say the least. But then we get that Chloe knows about Clark's sekrit, and he finally had someone he could confide in, who would have his back and not betray him. Then there's my grief over losing Bo Kent, but it made for some really good episodes after, which still make me cry. But I still mourned the loss of the yumminess that was (still is!) John Schneider.

[BkWurm1]

In honor of Carrie Fisher's passing, I just wanted to say a few things about her appearance on Smallville.  

For one, how awesome was it that we had her on our show?  

That alone would have been enough for me to smile over, but I remember at the time how very surprised I was with her few short scenes.  She gave the role of Paula Kahn, Editor in Chief, a realism and gravitas.  She could have come off simply as some kind of a jerk, instead she managed to be snarky, real, overworked, and also clearly brilliant, humorous, compassionate and fair.  You knew exactly who Paula Kahn was as a woman and it's no wonder she's shown up in more than a few fan fictions, her character was instantly sketched out.  

Carrie Fisher will always be known first as Princess Leia, but I'll never forget her as Paula Kahn either.  We were very lucky to have her.   

Edited December 29, 2016 by BkWurm1

[rue721]

On 8/16/2015 at 9:15 PM, DittyDotDot said:

Although, I don't really have the same issues with Lana as others seem to, I didn't really care all that much for Void either. I'm never too fond of shows trying to tell me what the afterlife is like. Plus, I'm not sure it really feels like something Lana would do.

I actually really enjoy Void.

In terms of it being an OOC storyline:  it would have been nice to see the FIRST time that Lana decided to take the krypto-drug, IMO, because that's the choice that seemed kind of out of character to me and that they needed to explain a little better. But once she'd gotten a taste of it, I think it made sense that she went back for more.

I also just really enjoy Lana as a junkie. She was oddly appealing to me that way. But I guess I always like Lana best when she's being duplicitous LOL.

Anyway, IMO the whole episode was worth it just to see creepy Lillian Luthor. That woman is nuts. So of course, I am always hungry to see more of her. And seeing Lex just flat out lie to Lana about what Lillian had said was also worth the price of admission IMO.

It's so interesting to me that Lex explicitly lies to Lana, instead of just avoiding her question about what Lillian said to him. I can understand why he would keep his conversation with Lillian private -- I, too, wouldn't be eager to tell anyone that my mom told me that she wants me to die so that I can't drown my soul in the blood of my victims! But I don't know why he felt the need to specifically tell Lana that Lillian was *proud* of him/his path. I mean, aside from the obvious, that he knew that that was what Lana wanted and expected to hear. That particular lie just seems like it would be too painful to tell for it to even be worth it for Lex to try. Like, why put yourself through that when you can just dodge the question?

Although, honestly, I find Lex hard to read when it comes to Lillian generally, because nothing we learn about her (or even about Lex's perception of her) ever seems to match up. The picture that he had painted of her (i.e., to Clark), as this tragic, subjected lost soul, who left an enormous hole in his life when she died, was belied by pretty much the first flashback of her that we saw, which showed her doing things like committing infanticide and letting her own kid take the fall for her. And being MIA while Lex had a pretty epic nervous breakdown. But at least it had seemed like, up to this point, Lex himself believed the rosy picture of her that he'd painted, even if it wasn't actually true from a more objective perspective. Seeing him lie about Lillian/his relationship with her in Void made me wonder a lot more what his thoughts and feelings about her actually were in general, though. Like, was that whole rosy picture of her actually just a flat out lie from the get go, rather than him subconsciously whitewashing Lillian (like I'd assumed)?

Thinking about it, I guess any time that we've seen Lillian onscreen, the scenes have actually been taking place in Lex's head, so we're only seeing Lillian from Lex's perspective in the first place. So I guess he MUST have been lying about that rosy picture of tragic Lillian, since whenever he paints that picture for anyone, we (the audience) then go inside his head and see Lex's own thoughts/memories/fantasies of her killing one of her sons, throwing the other to the wolves, etc, and otherwise doing/saying things that completely discredit whatever lovely, Romantic-with-a-capital-R things he's just told his friends about her...Anyway, OK, what can I say, Lillian fascinates me.

Also, I found it funny but also disturbing that Lana bought his lie completely. It wasn't like his lie was so bizarre that it was stupid of her to believe it or anything. Really, the truth was much more bizarre. But her credulity just went to show how little she knew the Luthors IMO. I mean, they ARE all strange, so of course the truth about what Lillian said was going to be strange. The banality of his lie is exactly what was suspicious about it. That Lana bought it showed that she had no idea what she was walking into when she was getting involved with Lex, or even getting close to him at all, IMO. I mean, it's not that Lana should have known better (how could she have?), but it's still kind of disconcerting that she didn't know better.

I also thought it was interesting, character-wise, that Lex didn't seem to consider for a second actually listening to Lillian this time. It wasn't like he then changed his ways AT ALL or even considered changing his ways. I guess ghost!Lillian broke his trust in Lexmas, so Lex was through listening to her now?

On 8/21/2015 at 5:35 PM, DittyDotDot said:

I guess they really are trying to redeem Lionel in earnest this time? I don't know, seems like a cheap trick at this point, but I did enjoy Lionel being the oracle, for some reason. When he opened that vault filled with all the crazy writing, I got the biggest grin on my face. I'm not sure how much sense it makes coupled with what they did with Lionel in S4, but, once again, it is what it is, right?

OK, I'm distracted by your use of "Cheap Trick"! ;) But to respond to what you're actually saying...

I also liked that he was the oracle, because that made things a lot more complicated than they would otherwise have been. I think that being the oracle was also really meaningful to Lionel, and he tried to exploit what he saw as an opportunity for "redemption" for all it was worth (although IMO what he was doing was ultimately not "redeeming himself," but just making yet another power grab -- except that Clark was the source of power this time, rather than money). In retrospect, I actually even like how the show handled it -- because it eventually became clear (by S7, anyway) that *Lionel* genuinely thought he was being redeemed, but from the outside, you could also see that Lionel was still the same old asshole that he'd always been, even if his behavior was now all dressed up in (and ostensibly justified by) his new, Clark-based "religion."

Maybe this is kind of small-minded, but a big part of what made me think that this redemption was *supposed* to seem fake and half-assed, that it was meant to be a figment of Lionel's (narcissistic and self-serving) imagination, (and that Clark wasn't actually a messiah with Lionel as his prophet!), was that Lionel didn't change his behavior toward Lex during the entire time he was being "redeemed." The show seemed to take pains to make that clear. And OK, it's not like the end-all-be-all of Lionel's morality has to be about how he treats his son, but the fact that he changed his justification for his behavior toward Lex without batting an eyelash, while changing virtually none of the actual behavior itself, made the whole ostensible redemption/change ring so hollow to me. Like ultimately, Lionel was just going to do whatever Lionel wanted to do, and the justification he used for it was just window dressing.

Like, OK, now Lionel's story is that he has to torment Lex because Lex is Clark's nemesis and Lionel is redeeming himself by protecting Clark from him. Before, his story was that he had to torment Lex because Lex was dangerous and had to be kept under control. Before that, it was that he had to torment Lex in order to teach him hard life lessons, like any good father would. And those are just the justifications that we saw Lionel use onscreen. To me, it seems like Lionel just liked tormenting Lex, and there wasn't really any deeper meaning or justification behind his behavior than that, no matter what reasoning he wanted to use to excuse/explain himself at any given time.

Anyway, even though at this point in the show Lex was coming into his villainy and there was arguably no longer a need for Lionel to act as his Villain Regent, I liked that Lionel was still around. I liked that he kept finding ways to insert himself into Clark's life and the Kent family, because IMO that was just endlessly creepy. And honestly, I liked watching Lex try and deal with Lionel. No matter how dark, ruthless, and cold Lex got, he was still no match for Lionel. Lionel could still play him like a violin -- and Lionel and Lex both knew it. Idk, I guess I just found their relationship interesting!

On 8/22/2015 at 4:39 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Most of the big shoulder shrug moments in five didn't ruffle my feathers since I really didn't care much about if Lana fell for Lex or not.  It was typical Lana, getting her back up boyfriend in place before the current relationship imploded.  I half think she decided she loved Lex because she can't handle not having someone in love with her.

I thought Lana's behavior was all pretty believable, too.

I think that Lex seemed to come onto Lana's radar right at the beginning of the season, when he told her believed her about the spaceship and they partnered up to look for it (and to find out what the meteor showers were all about, too). She seemed to be finding Clark really frustrating at that time, because he was not only trying to shut down her questions, but he was also holding himself back from her in *all* kinds of ways. IIRC he wouldn't even fool around with her. So even though Lex was acting somewhat shady (per usual), he was still being more open with her than Clark was, and it seemed like Lana really appreciated that. IMO Lana partnering up with Lex because Clark was meanwhile acting so distant was also what got her comparing Lex with Clark in general, which I think was the beginning of her thinking of Lex "in that way."

Then, when Lex took a bullet for her (in Lockdown?), I think she started flat out falling for him. I think that taking the bullet was what really got to her, but when she was in the panic room with him and he was bleeding out, I think she found him pretty charming, too. That was when he started a conversation about Clark's beautiful hair, and told her that he'd had a dream about being friends with Clark again, and how she had been in that dream, too -- and that, actually, she had been the best part of it. IMO it was during that conversation that she basically fell for him. It was right after that that she decided to try and trick their kidnappers so that she could get him help. Then, when he was in the hospital recovering from that bullet wound, he asked if she forgave him (for not telling her the spaceship was missing, IIRC) and asked if they could be partners again, and she said that she didn't want to be partners, she wanted to be friends -- and then gave him a long, lingering hug. She was still with Clark and I don't think she was trying to get with Lex or anything at that point, but IMO she clearly caught some feelings for him in that panic room.

And then he not only came through for her in Void, but he was apparently her shoulder to cry on over her breakup (from Clark) in the aftermath. Of course that led to him being her rebound.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I'm up to season five; actually a couple of episodes past the 100th, and hooboy, a Chloe continuity FAIL!!!! In season four's "Scare,", Chloe tells Clark she was five when her mom left, and in this season's "Tomb," she tells Clark she was 12 when her mom left!!! GAH!!!

And without fail, the emotional scenes with Clark and Chloe, Chloe and anyone, Clark and Martha, Clark and Jonathan, never fail to make me weepy and bawl.

I have to admit, in the first half of this season, "Reckoning" and "Vengeance" are my favorites, because of the emotional beats. Well, I fast forward through all things Lana, because, well, it's Lana. And I paid real close attention to the first time, when Clark tells Chloe that he told Lana everything and proposed, and that smile doesn't reach her eyes.  I believe, absolutely, that she's sincere, but her eyes tell me her heart is breaking. They're just so sad. Maybe it's because she's no longer the only one who knows his identity outside of his parents, or a combination of that and that now he really is forever out of her reach. But she's the BEST FRIEND EVAH!

But I also look at Tom/Clark's eyes whenever he's with Chloe, talking blathering on about how much he loves Lana, and all things Lana, and his eyes are just not sparkling or lit up, whether it's the blue eyes or the green eyes (they change don'tchaknow!), and just...dead. I hear the words, but don't hear the emotion that are supposed to be behind them, or the touching that he does to Chloe when he's saving her or after he's saved her, when it's the Pink Pestilence.

I especially know I was grinning like a tween in "Arrival" when Clark hears Chloe, picks her up, and she asks him, through being half frozen and chattering speed to use his "superspeed" to get them out of there. That conversation between them when she admits her suspicions about him and when it was confirmed, was just wonderful.  And even when Chloe learned about him, and Alicia was killed, Chloe didn't make it about herself. How Clark needs to open up to HER, or to talk about it, like a certain other somebody always does. Is it any wonder I got vicious hives and vibes of this character when I finally caved and watched Arrow and saw all those same self-absorbed characteristics in Laurel?

At first, I thought  Clark thought he had to go back lying to Lana after he got his powers back because of the scar that disappeared. And I kept thinking, hello! make-up! put on a scar there! But then in a later episode, while I'm laughing at the awkward sex conversation he and Chloe are having and he's not sure what will happen during, well, climax, now that he's all powered up, explained it all!

And NO Clark, You were NEVER, EVER  HUMAN. What was all that bullshit in "Hidden?" And no, writers, there was no "mortal life," either! Clark has always been an ALIEN. All that' "I'm no longer human" nonsense and trying to play off how he's now, what? AI?

And NO, Lionel, you icky, icky bastard, even if you are a magnificent bastard, there is no "US" between you and Martha. And you and Bo didn't have any kind of friendship or relationship that was marred by politics or money. I wanted to be able to go back in time and bash the writers who wrote that piece of shit in an otherwise wonderful episode.  And Andrea could have been a nice pseudo Huntress for this show's universe!

I'm now going to put on my hat that turns me into a ten year old and rant at Lana for what she said to Clark at the end of "Tomb." You went to LEX FIRST, about Chloe, instead of NOT believing her, because hello! Who was being stalked by a ghost, who turned out to be her own clone, and then kidnapped by another clone of her childhood friend just two years previously? And just who the fuck is Lex to be able to send her to Belle Reve?

So of course Clark would take her out of the hospital, and why the hell would he tell Lana, when clearly, she'd aligned herself with Lex in this? They should have broken up then and there.

And now that Lex is clearly on the evuhl and villain side, I don't find him so sexay, anymore, heh. And I cringe in his scenes with Lana. Or maybe it's because that relationship is just so icky to me, that it's a reflex.

Won't lie. I skipped "Lexmas" because so not interested.

And I can't wrap my brain around how unbelievably STOOPID Clark was in "Solitude," believing every single word out of Fine's mouth and of COURSE it's CHLOE to the rescue! And there aren't enough words for that scene of Chloe, Shelby, roaring fire, and Clark taking care of Chloe and giving her either a doctored drink of tea/coffee or soup or whatever. I seriously need a screencap of that! Oh @BkWurm1!!!!!!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Blech, the next three episodes so not my favorite: "Hypnotic," "Void" and "Mercy."

I'll be back after watching the last two, "Oracle" and "Vessel."

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, for the extra, "Making of a Milestone" for the 100th episode, was Tom Welling not available? Michael Rosenbaum? Annette O'Toole? Hell, any of the main cast to talk about the episode, other than John Schneider? Like I care what was going through Souders and Peterson's heads, or to watch the writers discuss how it was all going to play out.

At least John remained in the credits through the end of the season.

I got a good laugh at the final fight between Lionel and Jonathan, and how Glover laughingly says to do the take again, after John threw him across that table to the floor!

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

So I'm up to season five; actually a couple of episodes past the 100th, and hooboy, a Chloe continuity FAIL!!!! In season four's "Scare,", Chloe tells Clark she was five when her mom left, and in this season's "Tomb," she tells Clark she was 12 when her mom left!!! GAH!!!

 

And later we see that her mother is committed when Chloe is around 9 or 10. (Progeny)

 I've decided that the FIRST time that Moira left was when she was five and then her mom came back for a few years until she committed herself when Chloe was 9 or 10,  but that she was able to visit occasionally but the last time was when Chloe was 12.  There.  All better. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

And later we see that her mother is committed when Chloe is around 9 or 10. (Progeny)

 I've decided that the FIRST time that Moira left was when she was five and then her mom came back for a few years until she committed herself when Chloe was 9 or 10,  but that she was able to visit occasionally but the last time was when Chloe was 12.  There.  All better. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA. Works for me!

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I seriously need a screencap of that! Oh @BkWurm1!!!!!!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Thank you, Dahlink!!!????

[BkWurm1]

And just because:

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And just because:

OMGEEEEE!!!!!!!

?❤?❤?❤?❤?

?????????

Watching this now and counting down the minutes until this happens!

I don't see Clark protesting or trying to pull Chloe away, do you! Nope. He be full on participating!!!

So, FUCK YOU, Show, for not giving them a chance.

[NorthangerAbby]

I am about to start rewatching the fifth season in part because I know it's a favorite around here and want to pay more careful attention to it. I am especially interested in the idea that it's the shippiest season for Chlark and will pay attention to that this time. I will probably love this season even more if I skip some of the scenes about Jonathan's political campaign and instead concentrate on what may be the last truly great season for Lex. I came across this video on youtube and thought other people here who share my love for Chloe you might enjoy it-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE0ppIhhiYk

Quote

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by NorthangerAbby

[blueray]

On 1/23/2017 at 11:18 AM, NorthangerAbby said:

I am about to start rewatching the fifth season in part because I know it's a favorite around here and want to pay more careful attention to it. I am especially interested in the idea that it's the shippiest season for Chlark and will pay attention to that this time. I will probably love this season even more if I skip some of the scenes about Jonathan's political campaign and instead concentrate on what may be the last truly great season for Lex. I came across this video on youtube and thought other people here who share my love for Chloe you might enjoy it-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE0ppIhhiYk

That reminded me how great season 5 is for Clark and Chloe :)

[GHScorpiosRule]

I can't remember if I mentioned this during my last rewatch, but I always end up ???? in "Mortal." At the end, he shows up, after Jor-El resurrected him again so he could save everyone, and when Jonathan and Martha are shocked and happy to see him, he's all like "I'm no longer human" or I'm not human anymore or something like that. And I'm like: DUDE! You were NEVER HUMAN. Of course this show, this SHOW, implied, that why yes, despite his super human strength and all those other powers, he had the "skin" of a human. Which, whaat? But, I hand wave that away, because as much as he whined about it, Clark always proved inside, he was still very much human. And like @BkWurm1 posed in the season nine thread, how Chloe reminded Clark that coming home to make sure Shelby was fed, was "as human as it gets."

Edited February 12, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[blueray]

That always bothered me, Clark was never human regardless if he had his powers or not. This is confirmed in the season 2 episode (fever?) when Helen looks at his blood and determines something wasn't right, even though Clark didn't have his powers because of being sick.  That being said he had the values the Kents taught him to have, including human emotions.

Edited February 12, 2018 by blueray

[BkWurm1]

I am pretty sure though in season five when Clark lost his powers they test on his blood came back as perfectly normal.  I think the difference was that in season two, she got his blood when he had basically a kryptonite infection while in season five, Jor-El just plain removed his powers and maybe even did render him human?  It's hard to know since Clark actually died this time before getting his powers back in the Fortress (which only proves what an ass Jor-El was for taking them in the first place)

[blueray]

I've been rewatching season 5 (as it is the best season). But then I got to Fade. This episode makes no sense. If the guy is a hit man and his MO is that no one knows him, why would he try to even find Clark. I guess I get sending the TV as a thank you for saving him as he doesn't want to owe anyone. But it should have ended there. Why did he just come to their house, as now people know what he looks like and can place him outside the court house. Then there is Lois. At first she is suspicious of him, but this gets instantly dropped and she is suddenly going out with him.  Even though he doesn't even hide being creepy.  Anyhow then he tries to kill Lex, which altemently leads him to getting caught. I know I'm thinking way to into this, but honestly he would have never seeked them out and would have left the area to be on to his next "assignment".

Edited February 19, 2018 by blueray

[BkWurm1]

The only explanation I can come up with is hubris over being certain no one could connect him with the hit even if they placed him at the scene.  He definitely seemed to be showing off when he was trying to repay Clark for saving him.  So he didn't live his normal life quietly.  But yeah, if this guy was supposed to be this much of a perfect professional, you are right, it doesn't make sense that he'd make this many mistakes with flaunting his identity.  Though supposedly I guess we were to think that he was so overwhelmed with gratitude that he let down his guard?

And also, this is Smallville.  They were not above writing to plot over character even for their established characters. 

[Unclejosh]

I have been re-watching the series again for the first time since I originally watched them on air date and it is so funny when binging how you can see the technology change so quickly as each season progresses.  From the phones to the computers, monitors, and other things it is kinda neat to see in retrospect.

Also despite what I now know about Allison Mack in real life, I still love Chloe and wish the powers that be had pulled an Arrow and recognized the chemistry between the actors and explored it instead of being so tied to canon mythology.  Erica Durance was not bad in the early seasons but she looks about 5 years older than Tom despite them being the same age.  No way does she look like a college age student especially one who I think was underage(under 21) when she first appeared.

Oh and my opinion that MR was the best overall Lex in live action history remains steadfast.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Unclejosh

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

Oh and my opinion that MR was the best overall Lex in live action history remains steadfast.

You won't get an argument from me on that! And also on this:

16 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

I still love Chloe and wish the powers that be had pulled an Arrow and recognized the chemistry between the actors and explored it instead of being so tied to canon mythology.

Chime on in, @BkWurm1!

[BkWurm1]

It's funny watching the seasons again knowing how it will end up.  I wondered if that knowledge would change my opinion about Chlark being the best option for the show.  But instead, all the reasons why I loved Chlark then were not only still there but seemed even more prominent and blatant.  It could have been epic.  Sigh. 

At least I'll always have fan fic.  I made sure i got my happy ending.  :D  The RIGHT one, lol.  

[JKL845]

Ugh. Allison is a vile person. So, rewatching it does taint my enjoyment of Chloe. Same for the works of anyone who's scandals have come to light, male or female. Smallville is one of my favorite shows and I rewatch at least one episode a week still! The cast is large enough that it is easy to skip over Chloe if it gets to be too much for me. I might have welcomed it back then if they explored a relationship with Chloe and Clark, but knowing what I do now, when I watch, I'm really happy that Chloe and Clark were only friends. More enjoyable watching. Now if something comes out about Tom like that, I'll have to stop watching.

[BkWurm1]

When I first heard of AM's involvement in that cult, it did get into my head and affect my enjoyment of Chloe but I was quickly able to separate the two for a couple reasons.  Most of Smallville's run AM was either not involved or not nearly in so deep with the group. 

The other thing is that from all accounts, AM is as deeply if not more deeply brainwashed as any of the other members.  Even the most disturbing charges against her seem to be coming from a deeply twisted attempt to help others.  Which makes me almost more sad than angry.  That's not to say that she shouldn't face consequences for any of her actions that have crossed the line but unlike in a case with a Jared from Subway or a Bill Cosby where I felt that their true vile selves had always been there but just hidden, I really don't think that's the case with AM.  I think she WAS the idealistic woman she seemed to be.                                                                                                                                                                                                           Now sadly, disturbingly, her best qualities seem to have been twisted but I think what we saw on screen even in the later years when AM was getting sucked into the cult, those qualities that AM brought to Chloe, which originated from when AM had NO involvement with the cult still stayed true for Chloe.  Chloe was never corrupted by what AM was drawn into and then drew others into.   

So yeah, I remain a Chloe fan.  I think I appreciate her strength and refusal to be broken even more now and wish the show could have followed through on the groundwork it laid between Clark and Chloe.  And between the teases of Chloe and Chlois.  

[JKL845]

No pass. Allison is an adult and was an adult when she first got involved with the group. It won't change my enjoyment of the show. Just diminishes Chloe's role. No problem. While I enjoy the cast, my only deal breakers are Clark and the Luthors. If I have to skip them it wouldn't be worth it to watch. 

[BkWurm1]

I don't feel that I'm giving any kind of pass to AM by still adoring Chloe.  But to each their own.  

[blueray]

On 4/3/2018 at 2:40 AM, BkWurm1 said:

I don't feel that I'm giving any kind of pass to AM by still adoring Chloe.  But to each their own.  

Me too. Of course Chloe was my favorite character and still honestly is. I just wish the AM was more like her character :(. But what happened in real life shouldn't really impact the show that was mostly filmed before that.