Castle - General Discussion

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Beginning tomorrow, Monday, 12/12, it seems Lifetime will resume little mini marathons of the show in between its Christmas fare, airing from 8:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. ET, Monday through Friday.

Starts again with the first episode and has parts of the seasons airing, not the whole thing. Why, I don't know.

Thanks for the heads up! 

[shapeshifter]

LifeTime now seems to be running Castle:

• Monday & Tuesday: 4pm - 4am ET
• Thursday & Friday:  4pm - 8pm ET

I just re-watched 1.5 "A Chill Goes Through Her Veins" in which:

• "The discovery of a frozen-solid body at a construction site leads to the investigation of her death, which takes the team into unsolved cases from years past, entangling Beckett and Castle's case with a missing-persons case that was closed but never really solved" (castle.fandom.com/wiki/A_Chill_Goes_Through_Her_Veins).

The Dad killed his wife and then terrified his girlfriend.
It seems odd that neither the terrified girlfriend or the Dad's friend ever considered that he might do it again. 

[WendyCR72]

Sad news: Annie Wersching has passed away at only 45 of cancer. She played villain Dr. Kelly Nieman.

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Sad news: Annie Wersching has passed away at only 45 of cancer. She played villain Dr. Kelly Nieman.

That stinks! She was really a really good villian. She did a great job as Kelly. 

[WendyCR72]

Tamala Jones has the lead in an upcoming Lifetime movie, "Every Breath She Takes", airing March 25th at 8:00 p.m. EDT.

 

[andromeda331]

35 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Tamala Jones has the lead in an upcoming Lifetime movie, "Every Breath She Takes", airing March 25th at 8:00 p.m. EDT.

 

I just saw a preview for it! That's great!

[andromeda331]

I don't see it mentioned. She was in the Holiday Stocking in December.  It looks like she has a couple more movies coming up some time. Ordinary Angels with Hilary Swank and Something Here. There's not much information on the latter movie. Both are in post-production. I'm glad to see she's getting work.  

[shapeshifter]

8.2 "The Nose" is airing on Lifetime. 
Stephnie Weir is perfect as Mia Laszlo, "The Nose."
If they had introduced her character in an earlier season, she could have been a fun guest star to return a time or 2. 

Also, I just noticed that Aubrey Plaza voices Castle's Amazon Alexa/Lucy.

[MerBearHou]

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Also, I just noticed that Aubrey Plaza voices Castle's Amazon Alexa/Lucy.

Did not know that!  

Castle is a favorite to re-watch.  I have it on as we speak.

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Did not know that!  

Castle is a favorite to re-watch.  I have it on as we speak.

It's one of my favorites to re-watch too. I just really love all the characters. I love Kate, Castle, Esposito, Ryan, Martha, Alexis (although I want to strangle her in season 6) and Roy. I even love Gates. I love Kate and Castle as partners and together. I love Esposito and Ryan as partners. I love Ryan and Jenny as a couple. I love Castle, Martha and Alexis as a family. They are a really great family. 

[MerBearHou]

Agreed!  Ryan and Esposito have one of the most delightful partnerships I’ve seen on TV.  Credit to the actors and their humor and timing with each other.  Even their little, momentary facial expressions are just spot on.  I get such a kick out of those two.  

[andromeda331]

5 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Agreed!  Ryan and Esposito have one of the most delightful partnerships I’ve seen on TV.  Credit to the actors and their humor and timing with each other.  Even their little, momentary facial expressions are just spot on.  I get such a kick out of those two.  

So do I. They tease each other but also support each other. They are really funny together. I still love that Ryan wanted to name his first baby Javier if it was a boy. Then when he and Jenny do have a boy his middle name is Javier. That was so wonderful.

[Ariano]

12 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Agreed!  Ryan and Esposito have one of the most delightful partnerships I’ve seen on TV.  Credit to the actors and their humor and timing with each other.  Even their little, momentary facial expressions are just spot on.  I get such a kick out of those two.  

I completely agree! Ryan and Esposito's partnership on TV is truly delightful. The actors deserve credit for their fantastic humor and timing together. Even their subtle facial expressions are on point and add so much to their characters. It's a joy to watch those two in action!

[Bort]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

So do I. They tease each other but also support each other. They are really funny together. I still love that Ryan wanted to name his first baby Javier if it was a boy. Then when he and Jenny do have a boy his middle name is Javier. That was so wonderful.

I love that Esposito talked Ryan out of that because a little Irish boy named Javier would get some side eye.

[WendyCR72]

So, TV Line must be struggling for material due to the ongoing WGA Strike (not to mention, if a deal is not reached by July 12th, SAG-AFTRA will also be striking!) and has an article detailing what would have happened on various cancelled shows (I believe it said 45 different shows!)

For Castle, there was spec of this in the old full forum. Can't say I'm sorry we didn't get to see this:

Quote

Ended: May 16, 2016 (after eight seasons)

What Would Have Happened in Season 9: While Nathan Fillion, Jon Huertas, Seamus Dever, Susan Sullivan, Molly Quinn and Toks Olagundoye were all expected back, neither female lead Stana Katic nor Tamala Jones were invited to return. What would a Beckett-less show have looked like? According to sources, Kate still would have survived the shootout with LokSat stooge Caleb Brown, though one scenario had her being compelled to fake her death and join some sort of superspy organization. As such, instead of the “happy family” flash-forward tacked onto the finale, there would have been a time jump when Season 9 opened, during which Rick already grieved.

For the full article [to see the plots of other shows], here is the link.

[shapeshifter]

28 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

So, TV Line must be struggling for material due to the ongoing WGA Strike (not to mention, if a deal is not reached by July 12th, SAG-AFTRA will also be striking!) and has an article detailing what would have happened on various cancelled shows (I believe it said 45 different shows!)

For Castle, there was spec of this in the old full forum. Can't say I'm sorry we didn't get to see this:

For the full article [to see the plots of other shows], here is the link.

Also:

Quote

…. 
How do you feel about the way your abrupt exit from Castle was handled?

[Stana Katic] I'm actually still not clear on the thought process behind the way that it went down. It hurt and it was a harsh ending, but now, nearly two years later…I met so many beautiful people on that project, and we collaborated on something really unique in that it's not every day that you get a show, or a series, that has eight seasons and that it was a hit for the network. It would be a disservice to those people, to the work that we did together, and to my work, which I feel contributed, in part, to the success of the show, to be anything but grateful because, at the end of the day, that was a fantastic platform. It was a formative experience, and we told a love story that I feel moved people, touched people, and I can't be anything but glad that I was a part of something like that. I hope it remains something special in viewers' minds forever

https://ew.com/tv/2018/01/27/stana-katic-absentia-castle-exit/

 

[andromeda331]

I'm still amazed they thought fans would be okay with Beckett gone.

[Bort]

Did nobody learn anything from the Three’s Company/Three’s a Crowd debacle*? It’s not just the male lead people like, it’s the two of them together. I had heard that was the plan for subsequent seasons of Castle and I’m glad the plug got pulled before such a big mistake was made by killing off Beckett. Seriously, what were they thinking? Season 8 was a window into what that would kind of look like and while it wasn’t totally unwatchable (largely credited to Beckett), it was definitely not what I signed up for and I kind of wander off when Lifetime gets to that season in the reruns. That season had already jettisoned Gates and Tori, and added whoever Toks played (I can’t remember the character name).

*After having already replaced Suzanne Somers, which Three’s Company managed to survive, they thought spinning off a new show with John Ritter but not Joyce Dewitt would actually work and be a big hit. It was not.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Did nobody learn anything from the Three’s Company/Three’s a Crowd debacle*? It’s not just the male lead people like, it’s the two of them together.

X-Files too!

I was surprised to read that it wasn't Stana Katic's choice to leave. TPTB (both on TV and in other places of work) seem to help valued players out the door in what boils down to poor management, IMO. Usually budgets and salaries are the reason, and from the cryptic bits I read, that seems to be what became of the character of Beckett. 

But having seen the Castle finale recently, I would have liked a time jump for season 9 with maybe just the oldest child a baby. I can see lots of room for comedic Castle daddy shenanigans that would have livened up the grimness of some of the cases.

[MerBearHou]

8 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But having seen the Castle finale recently, I would have liked a time jump for season 9 with maybe just the oldest child a baby. I can see lots of room for comedic Castle daddy shenanigans that would have livened up the grimness of some of the cases.

Great idea — they could still do this!  Maybe when Nathan wraps up The Rookie.  @shapeshifter you’d get credit for the idea 😀 (at least, among us here)

[Bort]

14 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

X-Files too!

Well, not really, because for X-Files, it was David Duchovny’s choice to leave. In that case, it was the show trying to eke by when someone quit. I’m talking about shows where TPTB think it’s feasible to push out one half of a popular screen duo against their wishes and then are surprised when the audience bails. At least for Castle, the network killed the show before letting the show runners do it. Isn’t that why the network cancelled it? Because the show’s idea to budget cut was to fire Stana and kill off Beckett? At least someone at the network had a brain.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Well, not really, because for X-Files, it was David Duchovny’s choice to leave.

True. Not the same. But still foolish to think the show could go on without the Dynamic Duo, right? 
And as with Three’s Company and (other shows,) they tried to spin off The Lone Gunmen. 

 

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

At least for Castle, the network killed the show before letting the show runners do it. Isn’t that why the network cancelled it? Because the show’s idea to budget cut was to fire Stana and kill off Beckett? At least someone at the network had a brain.

I don't know enough about the structure of bureaucracy behind shows then (or now) to understand who did what when. I just recognize the common mistake of business managers in general thinking if there are 2 expensive leads (or heads) that chopping one off will fix the budget; it never works that I've seen.

So I agree that it is lucky somebody pulled the plug altogether.

Edited July 8, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Bort]

19 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

True. Not the same. But still foolish to think the show could go on without the Dynamic Duo, right? 
And as with Three’s Company and (other shows,) they tried to spin off The Lone Gunmen. 

Meh, more like hopeful. I don’t blame them for trying. And it was successful anyway, X-Files still kept chugging along.

But I wasn’t talking about spin-offs, The Lone Gunmen was a spin-off of secondary characters. Those can be hit and miss. Because for every The Lone Gunmen and The Ropers, you also have The Jeffersons and Frasier.

None of which are applicable here, I brought up Three’s a Crowd because it was the same concept as Castle: cut the expensive leading lady to save the budget, which kills the show entirely.

Quote

I don't know enough about the structure of bureaucracy behind shows then (or now) to understand who did what when. I just recognize the common mistake of business managers in general to think if there are 2 expensive leads (or heads) that chopping one off will fix the budget; it never works that I've seen.

So it is lucky somebody pulled the plug altogether.

It’s been years so my memory is fuzzy, plus it’s hearsay, but from what I remember, the network gave them a budget cut, the show runners came back to say that their budget cut solution was the Beckett thing, the network said no way, no one will watch that, and cancelled it.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

It’s been years so my memory is fuzzy, plus it’s hearsay, but from what I remember, the network gave them a budget cut, the show runners came back to say that their budget cut solution was the Beckett thing, the network said no way, no one will watch that, and cancelled it.

Now I'm imagining the show runner(s) yelling facetiously in exasperation: "Fine. We'll cut Katic!" but not meaning it literally.
And the rest is television (not😢) history.

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Meh, more like hopeful. I don’t blame them for trying. And it was successful anyway, X-Files still kept chugging along.

But I wasn’t talking about spin-offs, The Lone Gunmen was a spin-off of secondary characters. Those can be hit and miss. Because for every The Lone Gunmen and The Ropers, you also have The Jeffersons and Frasier.

None of which are applicable here, I brought up Three’s a Crowd because it was the same concept as Castle: cut the expensive leading lady to save the budget, which kills the show entirely.

It’s been years so my memory is fuzzy, plus it’s hearsay, but from what I remember, the network gave them a budget cut, the show runners came back to say that their budget cut solution was the Beckett thing, the network said no way, no one will watch that, and cancelled it.

One of the few times the network was right and did the right thing. Fans would not watch the show after they killed off Beckett. I'm also pissed they decided to fire Lanie too. Pretty convenient they decided to get rid of two main women but keep the guys.

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

X-Files too!

I was surprised to read that it wasn't Stana Katic's choice to leave. TPTB (both on TV and in other places of work) seem to help valued players out the door in what boils down to poor management, IMO. Usually budgets and salaries are the reason, and from the cryptic bits I read, that seems to be what became of the character of Beckett. 

But having seen the Castle finale recently, I would have liked a time jump for season 9 with maybe just the oldest child a baby. I can see lots of room for comedic Castle daddy shenanigans that would have livened up the grimness of some of the cases.

I was shocked that it wasn't Stana's idea. 

I wish we got season eight with them with a baby. That would have been fun.

[Bort]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm also pissed they decided to fire Lanie too. Pretty convenient they decided to get rid of two main women but keep the guys.

It would’ve been four total! For season 8 they already got rid of Gates and Tori. Granted, Tori was a recurring character but for the previous couple of seasons, she was still practically in every episode.

[shapeshifter]

From the The Rookie board:

2 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Nathan Fillion joins the DC Comics movie universe.

I do love that:
“Nathan Fillion is a Green Lantern known as ❤️Guy Gardner”❤️

Edited July 12, 2023 by shapeshifter

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

From the The Rookie board:

I do love that:
“Nathan Fillion is a Green Lantern known as ❤️Guy Gardner”❤️

Castle would have loved it.

[andromeda331]

I still hate Ellie Monroe in the Late Shaft she slept with Castle for a role and then lied about it when he asked. Yeah, she apologized but that was still crappy to do and did she apologize because she felt bad or because she worried he wouldn't recommend her for the role? I don't like how Beckett acts words it either. Sure she was right about Ellie but Castle clearly didn't know. He really thought Ellie liked him and believed her when asked about it. He got zero sympathy from her and just grief. 

I feel bad for the murderer in Food to Die for his girlfriend Cecily's in love with his foster brother/best friend and is only with David because he doesn't leave or sleep around like Wolf does. Really? That's the only reason your with him? That was crappy even before she and Wolf slept together while poor David left went to go bury his father. Why didn't they go with? Well, neither cared enough about David to do that. Cecily's happy to pass off Wolf's baby as David's. Wolf's really not much better again he sleeps with his foster brother/best friend's girlfriend, then when he finds out she's pregnant. He cleans up his act and sells his share in David and his restaurant to by a ring to propose to David's girlfriend. Wolf and Cecily both suck.

[CheshireCat]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:38 PM, kariyaki said:

It’s been years so my memory is fuzzy, plus it’s hearsay, but from what I remember, the network gave them a budget cut, the show runners came back to say that their budget cut solution was the Beckett thing, the network said no way, no one will watch that, and cancelled it.

I'm not sure if it was that clear-cut or why they decided to cancel it in the end. I remember that the news that Katic and Jones would not be returning for a S9 (can we say were fired?) broke about a month before the show was cancelled and they left the cancellation until pretty much the last minute.

Overall, it was a really weird situation but then, everything was weird with that show after S6, really, when Marlowe and Miller stepped down as showrunners.

This is one show where I really would love to know what was going on behind the scenes because it looks like it was much more than just the two leads who didn't get along (and from the above snippet it sounds like Katic was very much willing to return despite the differences she and Fillion might have had).

On 7/8/2023 at 11:25 AM, kariyaki said:

Did nobody learn anything from the Three’s Company/Three’s a Crowd debacle*? It’s not just the male lead people like, it’s the two of them together.

And that is even more true for a show that is sold as telling a love story which this one was. It was not just a police procedural but I think it was intended to tell Castle and Beckett's story pretty much from the start and it wasn't just like a by-product.

And speaking of, now that Lifetime's showing Castle reruns again in my area (and have been for a while) I've been watching both Castle and Bones reruns. I remember reading comments that Castle had copied Bones or was copying Bones and I don't think that's the case at all. Bones seems much more case focused and like a traditional procedural and the relationship seems to be an ad-in that wasn't necessarily planned. Bones seems to be case first, personal lives or characters second.

Castle does not feel like that at all. Every season seems like a chapter in Beckett and Castle's relationship, or even one book in their relationship with a beginning, a middle and an end and while they work a case in each episode, they are often also a vehicle and the personal stories are just as important as the case if not more important in some episodes.

I really don't understand the comparison.

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I really don't understand the comparison.

Well, the "bones" (pardon the pun!) of both shows actually are similar. Law-enforcement officer (Booth, Beckett) are accompanied by non-cop in other lines of work (paleontologist, author) and solve crimes while doing the will they/won't they dance and fall in love.

And, in the case of Bones, Brennan ALSO wrote books as a side job [a meta nod to Kathy Reichs, as Bones began in book form!].

And BOTH female leads had their mothers murdered and dealt with the fallout.

So, I see the parallels.

[CheshireCat]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, the "bones" (pardon the pun!) of both shows actually are similar. Law-enforcement officer (Booth, Beckett) are accompanied by non-cop in other lines of work (paleontologist, author) and solve crimes while doing the will they/won't they dance and fall in love.

And, in the case of Bones, Brennan ALSO wrote books as a side job [a meta nod to Kathy Reichs, as Bones began in book form!].

And BOTH female leads had their mothers murdered and dealt with the fallout.

So, I see the parallels.

Oh, yes, there are similarities. But I was meaning with regards to set-up and feel of the show. Even with the similarities, I would not conclude that one show was trying to copy the other. The tone of both shows is just so different.

[MerBearHou]

I’ve never watched Bones, but the Castle and Lucifer shows remind me of each other.  Very charming and wealthy non-police guy meets beautiful, no-nonsense cop / detective and finds a way to tag along on cases.  Both guys are smart, funny and handsome; both women are serious about their work and mildly (sometimes very) annoyed by the tagalongs but eventually are intrigued and find their input helpful.   Love happens.  Tremendous supporting casts.  Big fan here of both series.  Obviously Lucifer has the mystical, spiritual aspect which Castle does not.  

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, MerBearHou said:

Obviously Lucifer has the mystical, spiritual aspect which Castle does not.  

...but which Castle wished he had.😉🪄🧙‍♂️

[Featherhat]

On 7/14/2023 at 7:09 AM, CheshireCat said:

I've been watching both Castle and Bones reruns. I remember reading comments that Castle had copied Bones or was copying Bones and I don't think that's the case at all. Bones seems much more case focused and like a traditional procedural and the relationship seems to be an ad-in that wasn't necessarily planned. Bones seems to be case first, personal lives or characters second.

I certainly think both can (and obviously did) co exist and be very popular and there are differences but I get why there are comparisons. ABC's then President Stephen McPherson even said that one of the reasons they were so excited about Castle was the Bones was such a "warrior" for FOX, though I don't think they were trying to copy Bones exactly but it shows they were thinking about the similarities in some ways. 

It's worth noting that both shows had crew and writers who had worked on X-Files (and I think so did Lucifer but I can't remember) and the cultural phenomenon that was X-Files in its heyday is one reason that so, so many shows in the late 90s until very recently tried the "two hander lead with a strict, professional female and goofy/wacky/eccentric male". The exact make up, intentions and tone changes but the template is recognisable to audiences and more importantly studio execs when pitching a show, which is what McPherson was talking about. Which is why Lucifer ended up the way it did when the comic books are nothing like it. It doesn't mean any show is "ripping off each other though, they're basically their own genre even though they're made up of many genres including procedural, supernatural, horror, rom com, action, spy, cop show etc. 

Re season 9. Nothing would have induced me to watch a season of "Castle PI" whether they renamed it or not. With Beckett dead or faking her death and most of the cast gone. IIRC at the time one of the writers said that Beckett would be dead for real if they'd been renewed so Castle could presumably grieve and move on to someone else. And the kids would have been her dying dream if they'd been included. Who knows. It was a pretty wild time in the Castle fandom with so many conspiracy theories floating about. 

I don't think it ever really works when one of two main leads leaves for whatever reason or the eponymous main character leaves and the ensemble carries on even if the show makes it a couple more seasons (The Office etc)  even though there are exceptions like Roseanne 2.0 turning into The Connors.  One of the more infamous for me is OUAT when half the cast left after S6 and that flopped hard. To carrying on the X Files comparison above it only really lasted one season after DD left "for good" and ratings were really in the toilet (for them and the time). Trying to work it out when the female lead wanted to stay was really, really stupid. 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Featherhat

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

It was a pretty wild time in the Castle fandom with so many conspiracy theories floating about. 

Oh my goodness. If someone were to write a dissertation on 21st century conspiracy theories, they could claim it all started with Castle fandom. 🤣

 

6 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I don't think it ever really works when one of two main leads leaves for whatever reason or the eponymous main character leaves and the ensemble carries on even if the show makes it a couple more seasons (The Office etc)  even though there are exceptions like Roseanne 2.0 turning into The Connors.  One of the more infamous for me is OUAT when half the cast left after S6 and that flopped hard. To carrying on the X Files comparison above it only really lasted one season after DD left "for good" and ratings were really in the toilet (for them and the time).

There's the 2 Darrins model from Bewitched, which I don't think is ever copied, which puzzles me. IDK, looking at the ratings, it does look like they dropped after OG Darrin was replaced: wikipedia.org/wiki/Bewitched#Episodes

On Broadway it's normal to replace actors after a time. Why not on long-running TV?

Of course, in the Castle situation, if it was all about Stana's salary, they'd be stuck hiring an unknown, which would be a gamble, and not likely a winning one, given that Beckett was no spring chicken at that point. I mean, an actor in their mid-30s who isn't expecting a big salary for a lead role in a hit show doesn't really track.

Just musing...

[Bort]

2 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

On Broadway it's normal to replace actors after a time. Why not on long-running TV?

Long running tv does it. Soaps are notorious for replacing actors, they always have been. But soaps and theater are really long running. Castle’s run time is infancy compared to them, and I think that’s the difference.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Soaps are notorious for replacing actors, they always have been.

I wonder how the pay scale for daytime soap actors compares with actors in similarly ranked roles on shows like Castle.

—which reminds me that Nathan Fillion was in a soap opera for a while. I'm surprised to see it was after Firefly: imdb.com/name/nm0277213

Edited July 16, 2023 by shapeshifter

[WendyCR72]

19 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Long running tv does it. Soaps are notorious for replacing actors, they always have been. But soaps and theater are really long running. Castle’s run time is infancy compared to them, and I think that’s the difference.

What she said. Yes, Nathan Fillion was a soap actor before Castle, playing the son of one of the lead actresses/characters on One Life To Live. And he was a recast for the character of Joey Buchanan, too.

Soaps usually go all OTT - a la having a character having had plastic surgery/caught in an explosion/any weird scenario to sometimes explain why character X looks different [change in height is always ignored LOL!]. Sometimes, though, if a character has been off the show for some time and returns via a new actor on a soap, it's usually just a voiceover to the effect of "the role of X is now being played by..." and life goes on as usual.

And yes, there is also Bewitched with the double Darrens [both played by an actor with the first name of Dick!] and the two Beckys on Roseanne.

Recasts are less common in prime time versus the soaps, but it does happen!

[Featherhat]

Recasts are more common for secondary and minor characters, especially if the character hasn't been seen for a while. 

Ghost Whisperer sort of recast Jim by "killing" the character and having his soul in another man's body and using both actors. Crazy Ex Girlfriend got away with recasting Greg because SF was busy and used Skyler Astin "to show how people's perceptions of others change" or something like that and it worked. Of course Rosanne did it in the 90s as well. But it is rare.

In this case I think fans would have rioted and rightly so that SK was fired and replaced with a younger, less expensive person playing Kate Beckett for budget reasons. Plus I think the chemistry between NK/SK was one of the reasons the show was popular in the first place and there's no guarantee that Kate 2.0 would have the same chem, even if they tested the shit out of it. It's bad enough when they do that when a character leaves and hello, in comes a suspiciously similar character. Orville did that with Alara and Telaya, albeit they had different personalities. 

That said I'm not opposed to it for main characters in certain circumstances and I do think it should be more of an option as opposed to killing a character off if an actor wants to leave sometimes. 

 

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

In this case I think fans would have rioted and rightly so that SK was fired and replaced with a younger, less expensive person playing Kate Beckett for budget reasons. Plus I think the chemistry between NK/SK was one of the reasons the show was popular in the first place and there's no guarantee that Kate 2.0 would have the same chem, even if they tested the shit out of it. It's bad enough when they do that when a character leaves and hello, in comes a suspiciously similar character. Orville did that with Alara and Telaya, albeit they had different personalities. 

That said I'm not opposed to it for main characters in certain circumstances and I do think it should be more of an option as opposed to killing a character off if an actor wants to leave sometimes. 

 

I would find it okay if it was the actor's or actress's choice to leave. It would allow TPTB to continue to tell the story and it would prevent them from giving the story to the new character (like I thought they did on Chicago PD with the actress who replaced Sophia Bush) and after a couple of episodes act as if the other character never existed and the new one has the same relationships with everyone as the old one. I find it so disrespectful to character and fans when that happens. So, I think a recast would be preferable in that case and it might also give unknown actors a chance to become better known as the studios would be looking for someone who is similar in looks and manner.

However, I would not want it to happen when it's not the actor's or actress's choice, like it was on Castle. I agree, the chemistry between NF & SK contributed to the show's success and it's questionable if that could have been reproduced with anyone. There are actors who have chemistry and/or are cute together and then there were SK/NF.
The other thing is that if networks did that with actors who aren't choosing to leave, they'd just start firing actors after a few seasons and recast them or they would use it as a threat that they would fire them and exploit them.

As much as I like the idea of recasts in the above scenario, unfortunately, I don't think there is any way to limit it to that.

As far as recasting in stage plays is concerned, I think that is much easier. People usually watch a play or musical once or maybe several months or years apart. They don't tune in every week and they don't really go to the theater for the characters or the characters' story. Often times, you have different casts during a run, too. At least, you do in ballet. On Monday, Wednesday, Friday, you have cast A and Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday you have cast B, for example. While I do sometimes go because I want to see a certain dancer in a certain role, cast doesn't matter nearly as much with stage performances as it does with TV shows. There is not nearly the same level of attachment there.

[shapeshifter]

3.17 "Countdown" just aired on Lifetime.
I like a lot of parts of the episode, but there are several eye-roll moments too, like when Castle tell Martha and Alexis...

• [CASTLE] Look, I need you girls to do something for me. But I don't want you to ask any questions. I want you to go to the Hamptons, I want you to stay there for the weekend.
• [MARTHA] Richard, what is this about?
• [CASTLE] See, that...that's a question.

I wish he had stopped here.👆
I hate when he adds👇

• [CASTLE] Look, there might be a...an event...that will make it very dangerous to stay in the city.

which of course results in👇

• [CASTLE] What are you doing?
• [ALEXIS] Calling Ashley.
• [CASTLE] No, no, no, no. You can't tell anybody, okay? You can't tell anybody. You tell Ashley, he'll tell his parents. They'll call someone they love, and...a panic with make this thing a thousand times harder to stop.
• [ALEXIS] Dad, he's my boyfriend.
• [CASTLE] I know.
• [ALEXIS] This isn't fair. You can't just--
• [CASTLE] Fair has nothing to do with it. I need you to go. Now.

I realize that IRL Alexis of course would have texted Ashley whether or not Castle had talked about an "event." But this dialog just turns a loose end into a wick to a figurative bomb of a Manhattan traffic jam.
And, yes, Alexis is a veritable angel, but, again, IRL she would've texted Ashley anyway.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

3.17 "Countdown" just aired on Lifetime.
I like a lot of parts of the episode, but there are several eye-roll moments too, like when Castle tell Martha and Alexis...

• [CASTLE] Look, I need you girls to do something for me. But I don't want you to ask any questions. I want you to go to the Hamptons, I want you to stay there for the weekend.
• [MARTHA] Richard, what is this about?
• [CASTLE] See, that...that's a question.

I wish he had stopped here.👆
I hate when he adds👇

• [CASTLE] Look, there might be a...an event...that will make it very dangerous to stay in the city.

which of course results in👇

• [CASTLE] What are you doing?
• [ALEXIS] Calling Ashley.
• [CASTLE] No, no, no, no. You can't tell anybody, okay? You can't tell anybody. You tell Ashley, he'll tell his parents. They'll call someone they love, and...a panic with make this thing a thousand times harder to stop.
• [ALEXIS] Dad, he's my boyfriend.
• [CASTLE] I know.
• [ALEXIS] This isn't fair. You can't just--
• [CASTLE] Fair has nothing to do with it. I need you to go. Now.

I realize that IRL Alexis of course would have texted Ashley whether or not Castle had talked about an "event." But this dialog just turns a loose end into a wick to a figurative bomb of a Manhattan traffic jam.
And, yes, Alexis is a veritable angel, but, again, IRL she would've texted Ashley anyway.

And Ashley would have texted others.

[Gramto6]

Yeah, I side eyed that part too. No way Alexis wouldn't text BF and probably others too in real life!

Edited July 20, 2023 by Gramto6
Put Ashley instead of Alexis

[CheshireCat]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I realize that IRL Alexis of course would have texted Ashley whether or not Castle had talked about an "event." But this dialog just turns a loose end into a wick to a figurative bomb of a Manhattan traffic jam.

And, yes, Alexis is a veritable angel, but, again, IRL she would've texted Ashley anyway.

I don't think Alexis necessarily would have texted Ashley. I probably would have needed a bit more than the show had time for with regards to conversation but with that right amount of conversation, I wouldn't have. I was that boring as a teenager. 😉
But I likely would have ended up feeling guilty which is why I think Castle should have stopped where you said he should have stopped. He didn't do Alexis and Martha a favor by revealing more.

[CheshireCat]

"Knockout" is on and I've always loved how they wrote the arguments between Castle and Beckett in these episodes. They made sense from a character point-of-view and it wasn't just one character dumping on the other while the other let them. They both got to say their piece and the arguments were always balanced.

I tend to avoid episodes where the main characters argue because they often feel silly and/or don't really have a point and/or feel contrived and their only purpose is to split characters or make them jealous or put one in danger or whatnot. That's not the case with Castle and I actually rewatch these episodes in part for the arguments.

They had some excellent writers and directors!

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

"Knockout" is on and I've always loved how they wrote the arguments between Castle and Beckett in these episodes. They made sense from a character point-of-view and it wasn't just one character dumping on the other while the other let them. They both got to say their piece and the arguments were always balanced.

I tend to avoid episodes where the main characters argue because they often feel silly and/or don't really have a point and/or feel contrived and their only purpose is to split characters or make them jealous or put one in danger or whatnot. That's not the case with Castle and I actually rewatch these episodes in part for the arguments.

They had some excellent writers and directors!

In addition to writing and directing, Nathan Fillion in interviews always comes off to me as unaggressive in any discussions, using self-deprecating charm to settle things. That same persona comes through in his roles.
I suppose he might lose his cool off camera, but I've never heard or read about it. 

[WendyCR72]

Jon Huertas (Esposito) on the picket line:

 

[andromeda331]

On 7/24/2023 at 6:28 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Jon Huertas (Esposito) on the picket line:

 

That's great!

[BellyLaughter]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:57 PM, shapeshifter said:

Oh my goodness. If someone were to write a dissertation on 21st century conspiracy theories, they could claim it all started with Castle fandom. 🤣

I have television series PTSD from those days… it’s the only time I was hoping for a cancellation of a TV show I loved… it was just a conspiracy ridden mess by the end. And from what I read about potential S9 plans it would appear to cancel it was a merciful act even if that did mean putting many wonderful, talented people out of work for a time.

Edited July 27, 2023 by BellyLaughter