The Falcon and The Winter Soldier Anticipation

[Kel Varnsen]

16 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

As per IMDB, no. Chris Evans currently has two projects going and one that was just announced, but none of them are Marvel-related. Honestly? I hope not. It would be weird if he doesn't get name-checked, but to me one of the points of the new phase, both this and WandaVision, is to shed some light on characters who haven't gotten as much attention as they deserve. I said a couple of posts ago that we don't have any idea of who Bucky is, that we probably know more about Sam than we do about Barnes, and I don't think Steve's presence would be necessary.

Yea I don't think he needs to be a main or even supporting cameo but it would be weird not to have a cameo or at least reference of a voice call or email from the old guy since he is both Sam and Bucky's best friend, not to mention a tactical genius.

 

[cambridgeguy]

18 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Yea I don't think he needs to be a main or even supporting cameo but it would be weird not to have a cameo or at least reference of a voice call or email from the old guy since he is both Sam and Bucky's best friend, not to mention a tactical genius.

If they really want to drive home that it's a new era then the series should open in the aftermath of Cap's funeral - it would show that they really are working without the safety net of Steve to solve certain problems or mediate disagreements.  We know from FFH that the world considers Cap to be dead although it's not clear if he really is or if that's what the Avengers said to ensure his privacy.

Edited March 14, 2021 by cambridgeguy

[Abra]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

If they really want to drive home that it's a new era then the series should open in the aftermath of Cap's funeral - it would show that they really are working without the safety net of Steve to solve certain problems or mediate disagreements.  We know from FFH that the world considers Cap to be dead although it's not clear if he really is or if that's what the Avengers said to ensure his privacy.

Based on what's shown in the trailers,

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Steve funeral scene, or at least a reference to his funeral having just occurred. I could be projecting, of course. But Sam and Bucky do also refer to Steve in the past tense in one of the short clips released.

Whatever happens I would assume the show is going to have little to no active Steve influence. This is a show about Sam and Bucky and how they move through the world now, alone and together. (Okay, projecting, but I feel like it will be like WandaVision in that respect as well, and that Loki will be primarily about Loki, etc.)

[Spartan Girl]

On March 12, 2021 at 11:05 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Has there been any word if Old Man Rogers will be showing up at all in this series? I watched end game with my kids a few days ago and Steve is old but still alive at the end. It would be weird if Sam and Bucky didn't at least mention still talking to him.

Yeah how about no? It’s hard enough to let go of my bottomless bitterness about the shitty resolution to that storyline in Endgame without a cameo bringing it all back.

I love Chris Evans, but unless they want to undo/retcon that crap by revealing Old Man Rogers was a Skrull and the real Cap was taken into space, let’s just move on.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah how about no? It’s hard enough to let go of my bottomless bitterness about the shitty resolution to that storyline in Endgame without a cameo bringing it all back.

I love Chris Evans, but unless they want to undo/retcon that crap by revealing Old Man Rogers was a Skrulls and the real Cap was taken into space, let’s just move on.

I did a rewatch of Winter Soldier the other day in anticipation of this series.  And just like every other time I have watched it since Endgame. I was upset about that ending.  There is absolutely zero way that Endgame Steve is Peggy's husband mentioned in WS.  

[johntfs]

29 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I did a rewatch of Winter Soldier the other day in anticipation of this series.  And just like every other time I have watched it since Endgame. I was upset about that ending.  There is absolutely zero way that Endgame Steve is Peggy's husband mentioned in WS.  

Of course he's not.  Remember, Back to the Future etc. is a bunch of bullshit.  The past cannot truly be changed.  The Peggy Carter from our MCU timeline lived her life and died as she did.  When Steve went back to Peggy, he branched off into an alternate timeline.  In that timeline he was Peggy's husband.  Eventually he did come back to "our" timeline to see goodbye to Sam and Bucky.  Whether he stayed here and died/retired or went back to the other timeline, we don't know, but it seems fair to say that at this point the Steve Rogers we've followed is gone.

Edited March 14, 2021 by johntfs

[Spartan Girl]

The Steve Rogers we followed in the Marvel movies (save Endgame) would have just left well enough alone and let Peggy be happy without him. He also wouldn't have just let Sharon be lost on the run after she put herself on the line for him and Bucky. Yeah, that Steve Rogers is gone.

Five more days left! Cannot wait!

[johntfs]

21 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

The Steve Rogers we followed in the Marvel movies (save Endgame) would have just left well enough alone and let Peggy be happy without him. He also wouldn't have just let Sharon be lost on the run after she put herself on the line for him and Bucky. Yeah, that Steve Rogers is gone.

Five more days left! Cannot wait!

Why would Sharon be "lost on the run?"  Endgame made it clear that the Civil War stuff had blown over.  Steve Rogers was living in New York running a counseling group.  Natasha was living at Avengers HQ.  Heck, in

Spoiler

WandaVision, Wanda openly goes to SWORD headquarters (and it's a government agency that would certainly attempt to detain a hunted fugitive).  No one tries to arrest her.

We don't know what happened, but it's clear to me that no one is being hunted for the Civil War stuff any more.  Hell, consider the various previews for this very show and

Spoiler

that Falcon and Winter Soldier seems to be interacting with a bunch of official government types without those types trying to arrest them.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by johntfs

[festivus]

I think I saw a wanted poster in the promos or somewhere for Sharon so reasonable assumption. We'll just have to see. This one was supposed to be on before WandaVision.

I did notice when I watched the Legends stuff that they left "the kiss" out of Sharon's. They really are trying to kill that with fire, lol.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Of course he's not.  Remember, Back to the Future etc. is a bunch of bullshit.  The past cannot truly be changed.  The Peggy Carter from our MCU timeline lived her life and died as she did.  When Steve went back to Peggy, he branched off into an alternate timeline.  In that timeline he was Peggy's husband.  Eventually he did come back to "our" timeline to see goodbye to Sam and Bucky.  Whether he stayed here and died/retired or went back to the other timeline, we don't know, but it seems fair to say that at this point the Steve Rogers we've followed is gone.

I watched Endgame last week and I realized the fact that Steve has a new shield at the end is further evidence that he lived his life in another timeline. Because I could maybe see that Steve was Peggy's secret husband all along (even though it is dumb. But if he did he couldn't take the existing shield from the timeline and even if he was Peggy's secret husband, getting a new shield (made of the rarest material on earth) from either Howard or Wakanda without messing up the future becomes a lot more difficult.

[johntfs]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I watched Endgame last week and I realized the fact that Steve has a new shield at the end is further evidence that he lived his life in another timeline. Because I could maybe see that Steve was Peggy's secret husband all along (even though it is dumb. But if he did he couldn't take the existing shield from the timeline and even if he was Peggy's secret husband, getting a new shield (made of the rarest material on earth) from either Howard or Wakanda without messing up the future becomes a lot more difficult.

Actually, it's super easy and not even barely an inconvenience.  The MCU still operates on "BttF is BS" temporal physics.  If you travel from the present into the past, that present by definition becomes your past, which you cannot change.  We don't know (or need to know) what happened in that alternate timeline.  Maybe Steve rescued Bucky early and/or brought Wakanda onto the world stage early.  I'll assume that Steve did a bit of "Rick and Morty" and specified a timeline where he died in the plane crash instead of being frozen so he wasn't stealing another Steve's life.  Ultimately it doesn't really matter what happened in that other timeline because absolutely none of it is relevant to our timeline aside from the parts occurring after Steve came back to say farewell to Sam and Bucky. 

[Kel Varnsen]

14 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Actually, it's super easy and not even barely an inconvenience.  The MCU still operates on "BttF is BS" temporal physics. 

Yea that was sort of my point that the shield further proves that. There was some suggestion, I think by the screenwriters that Steve marrying Peggy was a Lost style what happened, happened thing (which is stupid) but having the new shield makes that even less likely.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Why would Sharon be "lost on the run?"  Endgame made it clear that the Civil War stuff had blown over.  Steve Rogers was living in New York running a counseling group.  Natasha was living at Avengers HQ.  Heck, in

  Hide contents

WandaVision, Wanda openly goes to SWORD headquarters (and it's a government agency that would certainly attempt to detain a hunted fugitive).  No one tries to arrest her.

We don't know what happened, but it's clear to me that no one is being hunted for the Civil War stuff any more.  Hell, consider the various previews for this very show and

 

Except Bag Of Dicks Hayward uses some of Wanda's past against her as a 'reason' that she has to be neutralized. He even manufactures evidence to make it look like she stole Vision's body, which was an out and out lie.

During Infinity War, after Steve and Natasha save Vision and Wanda from Thanos' minions, they were both still fugitives, since Other Bag of Dicks Ross expected Rhodey to arrest them when they arrived at the compound. If all of that did blow over, we never see any resolution to it, and Ross being at Tony's funeral doesn't count since we don't actually know if he had official pardons issued or even apologized to Banner.

I would think that even if the Civil War kerfuffle is 'officially' put to bed, the memory of it lingers. The U.N. was bombed. A reigning monarch was assassinated. An already internationally known fugitive was suspected of the crime, and due measures were taken to apprehend him. A legally binding document was created by however many countries, signed and enacted into law, which ends up pitting the good guys against each other. Doesn't matter if it was just Tony's guilt or Steve's hardheaded insistence that only he and anyone who agrees with him is fit to sit in judgement, or even Tony trying to kill Bucky when Mr. Morality could have been honest at some point before that and just wasn't. It still happened, and that's not even getting into the destruction of a major airport in Germany and the escape from the Raft. If it's not actually Ross, it should be someone like Ross behind the scenes, especially since Zemo is back in play. I would expect Team Consequences to be very annoyed if there's literally no problem with anything that happened before, when the full laundry list is considered like that. 

[johntfs]

12 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

 

  Reveal spoiler

Except Bag Of Dicks Hayward uses some of Wanda's past against her as a 'reason' that she has to be neutralized. He even manufactures evidence to make it look like she stole Vision's body, which was an out and out lie.

During Infinity War, after Steve and Natasha save Vision and Wanda from Thanos' minions, they were both still fugitives, since Other Bag of Dicks Ross expected Rhodey to arrest them when they arrived at the compound. If all of that did blow over, we never see any resolution to it, and Ross being at Tony's funeral doesn't count since we don't actually know if he had official pardons issued or even apologized to Banner.

I would think that even if the Civil War kerfuffle is 'officially' put to bed, the memory of it lingers. The U.N. was bombed. A reigning monarch was assassinated. An already internationally known fugitive was suspected of the crime, and due measures were taken to apprehend him. A legally binding document was created by however many countries, signed and enacted into law, which ends up pitting the good guys against each other. Doesn't matter if it was just Tony's guilt or Steve's hardheaded insistence that only he and anyone who agrees with him is fit to sit in judgement, or even Tony trying to kill Bucky when Mr. Morality could have been honest at some point before that and just wasn't. It still happened, and that's not even getting into the destruction of a major airport in Germany and the escape from the Raft. If it's not actually Ross, it should be someone like Ross behind the scenes, especially since Zemo is back in play. I would expect Team Consequences to be very annoyed if there's literally no problem with anything that happened before, when the full laundry list is considered like that. 

It doesn't really matter if the memory lingers because the arrest warrants apparently don't linger.  Why would Sharon Carter still be a fugitive on the run when Steve Rogers, Natasha and others far more directly involved in the Civil War thng clearly weren't on the run any more?

Back in WWII Steve Rogers gave up his life for his country even if he didn't actually die.  Then he gave another ten years of his life fighting secret Nazis and weird aliens.  That leaves aside whatever he did in the other timeline.  It seems unlikely he'd just sit on his ass letting Agent Carter do all the fighting.  Sam is a worthy successor to becoming Captain America and Steve is fine with letting him take that mantle.

[Spartan Girl]

All the promos referring to Sharon's role in the show confirms that she's been on the run, in addition to getting snapped and blipped. So yeah, she's been on her own since Mr. Morality couldn't be bothered to check on the niece of "the love of his life." Or at least that's my impression is, we'll see what the show's story will be.

[Abra]

Just saw the final trailer. I was looking forward to this before, but holy shit I can't wait for Friday now. (And not just because I'm a sucker for trailer score music.)

[Mulva]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

All the promos referring to Sharon's role in the show confirms that she's been on the run, in addition to getting snapped and blipped. So yeah, she's been on her own since Mr. Morality couldn't be bothered to check on the niece of "the love of his life." Or at least that's my impression is, we'll see what the show's story will be.

If I were Sharon, I'd feel like a real chump.  She basically committed crimes and threw her career away for Steve, who promptly forgot all about her then ended up going back to her aunt.

[Spartan Girl]

16 minutes ago, Mulva said:

If I were Sharon, I'd feel like a real chump.  She basically committed crimes and threw her career away for Steve, who promptly forgot all about her then ended up going back to her aunt.

[Mulva]

On 3/13/2021 at 3:45 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Yea I don't think he needs to be a main or even supporting cameo but it would be weird not to have a cameo or at least reference of a voice call or email from the old guy since he is both Sam and Bucky's best friend, not to mention a tactical genius.

 

For someone who's supposed to be a tactical genius, all we ever see him do in plunge into a situation and start punching.