Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[EmeraldArcher]

Matt Bomer is definitely up there. I gave Oliver a 9.5+ based on what probably his rating would be from a cross-section of US women. Weirdly, I would say Stephen Amell is a little less attractive than Oliver, probably because of his goofy outfits and backwards baseball caps, although apparently he looks great IRL. Also, EBR IRL is more like a 9+. She looks gorgeous in that picture above that Morrigan posted.

I agree! I think EBR is more beautiful than FS, probably because she styles her hair/makeup in a way she prefers. However, as much as I criticize FS's wardrobe, I think she is more consistently better dressed than EBR. I really do not like some of EBR's clothing choices, especially for big events (like that lace ice skating costume/lingerie dress at SDCC15). EBR just seems like someone I'd want to be friends with--she's smart, funny, silly, and confident. She seems like she's genuinely fun to be around.

I think OQ is WAY better looking than SA for the same reasons--the frat boy wardrobe and caps/hats! Also, OQ's mannerisms are just sexy, if you go for the quietly dangerous type who can wear the hell out of tight green leather.

And yes, Paul Newman was simply gorgeous.

[AyChihuahua]

I really do not like some of EBR's clothing choices, especially for big events (like that lace ice skating costume/lingerie dress at SDCC15). EBR just seems like someone I'd want to be friends with--she's smart, funny, silly, and confident. She seems like she's genuinely fun to be around.

I thought that was one of the ugliest dresses I've ever seen, and it was not at all flattering on her. I liked the leather top/short skirt outfit, though. It was age appropriate, trendy, cute, and quasi-comfy for a long day of events.

[fantique]

Of course as my friend always points out to me I am incapable of finding someone attractive (baring the near perfect examples) unless I like their personality.

I'm the same! I only started liking Oliver as a character in his own right this season (don't ask me why, I think him opening up even if it's to show what a moron he is to the viewer really helped) and I was like "wow...when the hell did SA get hot?" I intellectually recognised him as aesthetically pleasing but his looks are too ordinary for me.

However, all the times that I (or Oliver) was supposed to find Felicity sexy, I didn't. Examples include her entrance in the gold dress at the art auction in "The Dodger," her being dressed in cocktail dresses for her undercover assignment at the casino and for her dinner dates with Ray and Oliver, her wearing any of her boob dresses, her wearing a sports bra and punching a bag in the lair, or even during her sex scene in Nanda Parbat. A few of the times I really found her attractive occurred in S2, such as when she was wearing the polka dot blouse during the infamous "Someone I really care about" speech and the other polka dot blouse with cobalt earrings when she's focused on saving Oliver in "Three Ghosts"--but I think I was attracted to her intensity in both those scenes.

1.don't feel bad. It's your opinion.

2. I feel like FS/EBR are the girl next door level of noticeability based on looks and yet are not conventional enough to fit that mold. I know I found her absolutely adorable and I smiled every time she babbled. I think I found her beautiful after seeing her a few times. I do think that her appeal is in her intensity even though it's her simplicity that attracts the viewer and Oliver.

3. I would argue that in those moments except the gold dress, they were more trying to telegraph her as beautiful. I think the sex scene wasn't meant to be sexy but intimate. It made me, at least, want to look away as if I was watching two real people being together rather than the usual sex scene which is so devoid of intimacy that I don't feel weird at all looking at two people having sex. Maybe I am not as responsive to it since I'm a girl, but I always felt they were trying to avoid the sexy angle beyond the wardrobe glam up which is simply TV shorthand for "guys look at her now, y'all".

I personally loved her waist high midi straight skirt with her multicoloured cropped top in Dig's apartment in 3.22(?). I have a morphology that is close to her, though with a bigger bust and smaller waist, so I know the struggle of tops and bottoms not being the same size. I am restricted to a few dress styles, lower than high waist pants are my enemies and A-line skirts my friends. They need to get dresses that for her bottom and then re-work the top or get separates. She's pear shaped. There are many nice and feminine options to explore. Just not most of the ones they choose.

4. For FS, not EBR, I feel like it's the kind of beauty that girls ID quicker and guys only see once the "know" her. I think it's meant to be a beauty that comes from within. I always assumed that whatever Oliver finds attractive/sexy is an extension of the fact that he loves her so much that he now finds that thing appealing.

BTW: Actually, an extremely attractive man getting even with an average or below average woman is seen very often, especially when guys have an ahum...expansive experience, they end up with someone everyone would say is not their type. And they typically are devoted and in love in a way they never were before. Same for extremely attractive women as well previously. So it all fits ridiculously well actually, up to the writers to fuck it up.

[wonderwall]

I feel like I've posted this before, but I want to again because it's so important and probably a reason why Felicity fought hard to have someone in her life who she can come home to:

 

It occurred to me that everyone on this show has their families with them no matter how dysfunctional they are.. except for Felicity

Oliver has Thea, Diggle has Lyla and Sara, Laurel has her father and Felicity is completely alone in Starling City! Yes she does have a mother who loves her very much but she’s thousands of miles away from her. sometimes when everything goes to crap, we just need our family to confide in and she never had that during these 3 years. In 2.07 after Count’s attack Oliver told her to go home but to whom? She was completely alone that night. She almost died and she had no one to confide in, no one to tell her that everything’s going to be okay. Yes she does have her friends but that’s not the same. Felicity was lonely. Even in season 2.5 moment before she gets kindapped she enters her home and says “honey i’m home” and that was extremely heartbreaking to me. Felicity Smoak lived half of her life alone, ever since her father left her.

 

That’s why Oliver is so important to her. He gave her family, a sense of belonging. That’s why it’s so easy for Felicity to leave her job and her house in Starling City because for her, home isn’t Starling City or Las Vegas, it’s Oliver Queen. 

“If you ever need to tell someone about your day, you can tell me”
 

Felicity brought light and direction into Oliver’s life and in return he gave her something she never had before: a home (source)

Edited August 7, 2015 by wonderwall

[foreverevolving]

BTW: Actually, an extremely attractive man getting even with an average or below average woman is seen very often, especially when guys have an ahum...expansive experience, they end up with someone everyone would say is not their type. And they typically are devoted and in love in a way they never were before. Same for extremely attractive women as well previously. So it all fits ridiculously well actually, up to the writers to fuck it up.

 

True to your last point, allow me to provide what i think is an awesome real life example: I've seen alot of shade in the past couple of years directed at George Clooney for marrying a woman who is supposedly not as hot as his ex's (horse face and trans looking are insults that come up often from stupid commenters in articles about the couple/Amal - yes... sometimes when i am super bored I read the comments, i know I shouldn't..but, shrugs) and all I can do is laugh my ass off at those insults, because if anyone out of the two of them won the jackpot, it's no doubt him- even he admits that!

 

Considering how private he is and how bashful and shy he always seems to be, not to mention I think he's a person who enjoys a challenge... it's always been totally obvious to me that the right woman for him was not gonna be anyone who works in showbiz- especially not in front of the camera!!- and whose career would benefit (however shortly) from dating him; but rather someone who would be intellectually completely out of his league, who will have no desire to want to date him and be another notch on the bed + award arm candy, someone that he will have to work really hard to impress because all the glitz and glamour of his world would not impress her. and yes I may have thought about George Clooney love life a little bit too much, blame it on my teenager fantasies..okay? okay. :-P

 

Edit: because writing taught instead of thought is a spelling mistake I should know better than to make.

Edited August 7, 2015 by foreverevolving

[wingster55]

I feel like I've posted this before, but I want to again because it's so important and probably a reason why Felicity fought hard to have someone in her life who she can come home to:

And what's Diggle to her then? Aka the guy she spent the summer with when Oliver hightailed it back to Lian Yu. 

[Guest]

Diggle is still her family but she doesn't have romantic feelings for him. It's completely different. Felicity obviously wants someone she can make a home with. That doesn't discount her love for Diggle or his place in her life. 

[wonderwall]

And what's Diggle to her then? Aka the guy she spent the summer with when Oliver hightailed it back to Lian Yu. 

The guy who took Oliver's side in their dispute? I was super disappointed in that because Diggle wasn't really there for Felicity in S3 nor was Felicity there for Diggle. It was completely disingenuous because I feel like it's because they wanted to push Ray and Felicity when Oliver was gone. 

 

Regardless, I hope they get back to the point where they're like brother and sister like they were in S2. In the end Felicity didn't have anyone in S3 which was really sad. 

Edited August 7, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

And what's Diggle to her then? Aka the guy she spent the summer with when Oliver hightailed it back to Lian Yu. 

 

A friend? Someone who goes home to his own wife? I'm not sure how Diggle figures into this since the post was about Felicity having someone to go home to - and it obviously can't be him.

[AyChihuahua]

The guy who took Oliver's side in their dispute? I was super disappointed in that because Diggle wasn't really there for Felicity in S3 nor was Felicity there for Diggle. It was completely disingenuous because I feel like it's because they wanted to push Ray and Felicity when Oliver was gone. 

 

Regardless, I hope they get back to the point where they're like brother and sister like they were in S2. In the end Felicity didn't have anyone in S3 which was really sad. 

It's worse, because it wasn't even really a dispute.  Oliver preemptively dumped her and broke her heart because she was a distraction.  She did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong there.  I mean, she got blown up, and then dumped for having been blown up.  And then Digg pretty much tells her she should continue pining after the guy who preemptively dumped her for having been blown up, because otherwise he'd have the sadz.  Seriously, WTH?

[wingster55]

The guy who took Oliver's side in their dispute?

 

That's a bit harsh since it wasn't as though he ever said anything negative to her.

That post said she wanted stability and a home..but Diggle gave it to her just as much as Oliver.

I find that Diggle in the show and with numerous fans downplay his role in Oliver and Felicity's lives so that they would be each others #1. 

 

And then Digg pretty much tells her she should continue pining after the guy who preemptively dumped her for having been blown up, because otherwise he'd have the sadz.

 

err...when?

Edited August 7, 2015 by wingster55

[wonderwall]

It's worse, because it wasn't even really a dispute.  Oliver preemptively dumped her and broke her heart because she was a distraction.  She did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong there.  I mean, she got blown up, and then dumped for having been blown up.  And then Digg pretty much tells her she should continue pining after the guy who preemptively dumped her for having been blown up, because otherwise he'd have the sadz.  Seriously, WTH?

 

RIGHT?!?! SEASON 2 DIGGLE WOULD NEVER HAVE DONE THAT. I find it interesting though that when Felicity and Ray were done, Felicity and Diggle started to lean on each other more. This is another reason why I didn't like how Ray was included this season. 

 

I thought that and his advice to Oliver about Roy was equally terrible. -_- 

[apinknightmare]

That post said she wanted stability and a home..but Diggle gave it to her just as much as Oliver.

 

Seems to me that post is about Felicity not having anyone to go home to and unwind with and talk to about her day when it's over, which can't be Diggle, unless you want her to move in with him and Lyla? 

[wingster55]

Home seemed to be the foundry for her, to me. With Oliver and Diggle primarily. 

[wonderwall]

I think that the point that the author was trying to make is that  -- 

 

Felicity didn't really have a family or a place to call home before Oliver came to her with his laptop riddled with bullets. OLIVER was the one who gave her that home, not Diggle. That's important. While Diggle is Felicity's supposed brother (seriously ignoring season 3 here), Diggle wasn't really the one who gave Felicity that family. That was still all Oliver. 

 

And even though Diggle is her brother, they still part ways at the end of the day. And in Season 3 when Felicity was having a hard time, she had to go home to an empty apartment at the end of the day and deal with everything herself. It's understandable why she wouldn't want that. 

 

Diggle has someone to come home to, he has the extra support. Oliver and Thea also have that support in each other. And if Laurel didn't lie to Quentin about Sara, she also would've had that support. 

 

But when Felicity's day is done and she shuts off her computer and everyone else goes to their respective homes, who is there to support her? 

 

I think this is why Oliver's important. Because not only did he give her a family and home, but now he's also the person she gets to go home with and lean on when she's having a crappy day. 

[dtissagirl]

I find that Diggle in the show and with numerous fans downplay his role in Oliver and Felicity's lives so that they would be each others #1.

 

I find wanting Diggle to be either Felicity's or Oliver's #1 completely downplays Lyla's role in Diggle's life. She's his #1 and vice-versa.

[apinknightmare]

Home seemed to be the foundry for her, to me. With Oliver and Diggle primarily. 

 

Right, because she spent a lot of time there. In part because, as the person who wrote that post pointed out, she went home alone to an empty house. Living life like that is not sustainable. Diggle has Lyla to go home to. Now Oliver and Felicity have each other. I'm sure Felicity isn't #1 in Diggle's life (it would be worrisome if she were, since he's married), so why does he have to factor into her home life?

[wonderwall]

I find wanting Diggle to be either Felicity's or Oliver's #1 completely downplays Lyla's role in Diggle's life. She's his #1 and vice-versa.

 

And you know Lyla and Sara are both #1 in Diggle's life because of how pissed he was at Oliver. If Oliver was #1 in his life, his actions wouldn't have fractured their relationship as much. 

 

In comparison Felicity to Oliver is now what Lyla is to Diggle. 

[AyChihuahua]

I find wanting Diggle to be either Felicity's or Oliver's #1 completely downplays Lyla's role in Diggle's life. She's his #1 and vice-versa.

They 100% ARE each other's #1s (along with Thea somewhere in the mix there for Oliver).  They're in love and at this point living together.  And both Lyla and Sara are Diggle's #1s, not Felicity or Oliver, and I am entirely sure he'd be very happy to shout that from the rooftops.

[NumberCruncher]

And then Digg pretty much tells her she should continue pining after the guy who preemptively dumped her for having been blown up, because otherwise he'd have the sadz.

 

 

err...when?

That would be this scene:

I get that the writers had Diggle do it for Plot(!) but it came off like he was telling Felicity that her actions with Ray were putting Oliver's safety in peril and so she needed to do something about it. So yeah--I see people's point that the show made Diggle Oliver's ally in the triangle situation and not Felicity's.

Edited August 7, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[kismet]

Taking it to the relationship thread

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, responding in the relationships thread as well.

[AyChihuahua]

 That would be this scene:

I get that the writers had Diggle do it for Plot(!) but it came off like he was telling Felicity that her actions with Ray were putting Oliver's safety in peril and so she needed to do something about it. So yeah--I see people's point that the show made Diggle Oliver's ally in the triangle situation and not Felicity's.

Digg was telling Felicity that her going out with Ray was screwing with Oliver's head, which was dangerous.  That was meant, obviously, as a bad thing, which he presumably wanted her to do something about.  The something she was supposed to do about it was not date Ray.  This is pretty much human logic.  Now admittedly, Ray is a Cane Toad, so I wanted her not to date him either, but Digg just wanted her not to date, period.  Whereas I would have been perfectly happy for her to date, just, you know, ANYONE but Ray.   

Edited August 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[statsgirl]

Diggle wanted her not to date anyone since Oliver wouldn't date her and seeing her date anyone else was bad for Oliver.  Was she supposed to go into a nunnery?  Apparently since that was what was best for Oliver.

 

Pretty much proved that when it came right down to it, Felicity didn't have Diggle after all.

[dtissagirl]

I do appreciate it that Felicity told Diggle that if Oliver had a problem with her going out with Palmer, then OLIVER should say something -- and Diggle immediately backed off. His reasoning was complete bullshit, and borderline sexist, but the text was obviously using Diggle as Oliver's proxy in that scene, and Felicity rightfully called him on it. And he respected her by not commenting on it anymore.

[NumberCruncher]

For as much as I generally love Diggle, I was so happy when Felicity basically told him where to stick his guilt trip in that scene. If Oliver was somehow suffering, it was 100% of his own doing, not Felicity's.

[AyChihuahua]

I do appreciate it that Felicity told Diggle that if Oliver had a problem with her going out with Palmer, then OLIVER should say something -- and Diggle immediately backed off. His reasoning was complete bullshit, and borderline sexist, but the text was obviously using Diggle as Oliver's proxy in that scene, and Felicity rightfully called him on it. And he respected her by not commenting on it anymore.

Just one more example of Felicity standing up to and if necessary telling off everyone except Ray the Cane Toad.  Will never get past Fauxlicity's interactions with him.

[NumberCruncher]

Ugh, Felicity became a pod person around Ray (and it pissed me off so much) but yet again it clearly was for Plot(!)

[statsgirl]

As much as I find it hard to forgive Diggle his actions wrt Felicity most of s3, I can't forgive her for not standing up to Ray after his treatment of her in ep 3x17.

 

Before that, he seemed like he valued her, but when push came to shove, he treated her like a bimbo.  That was his idea of love?

[hogwash]

I'm gonna try to not read any red flags into the show removing Felicity's support system to make her relationship with Ray Palmer work. Queen Consolidated: S03!Felicity Smoak's setting of choice for tearful breakdowns... I hope better days are ahead for my favorite Arrow lady but S03 was so rough for the character. Her entire thing with Ray was a horrible reminder of when I would open a new tab whenever Tommy, Thea, or Laurel popped up as I watched the earlier episodes of S01 on Netflix. I didn't even like Tommy until he found out Oliver was the Arrow (that episode was amazing...). It took even longer into S01 with Thea while Laurel's still a wash for me. I honestly never thought I would feel that way about Felicity Smoak. 

 

 

[dtissagirl]

I'm gonna try to not read any red flags into the show removing Felicity's support system to make her relationship with Ray Palmer work.

Whoa, I had never thought about it like that. I'm sure it was completely unintentional, as everything about Palmer was, but GAH. So glad it's over.

[steeledwithakiss]

They didn't have Palmer do it, but the way the writers removed everyone and made her go to the office everytime she was upset about something certainly made me ragey. There was no other way to write organically Palmer becoming her shoulder to lean on? I guess not since they started on the wrong foot and then Palmer is just way too self-involved, the head in the clouds type, to actually notice something was wrong with Felicity without her crying about it alone in her office at night.

 

Felicity being honest and straight forward is such a big part of her personality. It's been her biggest character trait since day one. So it was difficult watching her lie to herself and keep up the pretence with Palmer. 3x17 was cringe worthy but 3x19 was worse for me. She had an epiphany of some kind in 3x18 (thanks to her mother because no one apparently can realize things on their own on that show). She was not able to say ILY to Palmer and she explained why. Even though he was perfect on paper she just didn't feel the same way. Even if you keep Oliver out of the equation, for herself, why would she still play the devoted girlfriend part when she knew full well she was not in love with him and he was? I'll never forgive the writers for not letting her being the one to initiate the break up.

Edited August 8, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[BkWurm1]

Even if you keep Oliver out of the equation, for herself, why would she still play the devoted girlfriend part when she knew full well she was not in love with him and he was? I'll never forgive the writers for not letting her being the one to initiate the break up.

 

The Flash crossover confused things badly if you didn't know it happened before "I love you."  "I'll get Jello" . But knowing really it goes from running off to find Jello to hiding at the office and then agreeing not to talk about it, I chalk Felicity not dealing with the needed (much needed) break up because there were bigger issues with the Roy plan to worry about.  She did still care for Ray and knowing she was soon going to break his heart (at least a little) she probably was being extra nice to him, lol, (Over compensating for what she was going to do to him)   

[apinknightmare]

Even if you keep Oliver out of the equation, for herself, why would she still play the devoted girlfriend part when she knew full well she was not in love with him and he was? I'll never forgive the writers for not letting her being the one to initiate the break up.

 

Ray immediately walked the "I love you" back, so why did he stay with her when he watched her run away to get some Jello after he told her that? Sometimes it takes a while to come to terms, especially if you're with a rebound that you're trying to convince yourself is going to work (and I think that was true on both sides). 

Edited August 8, 2015 by apinknightmare

[steeledwithakiss]

Palmer strikes me as the "hide your head in the sand" kind of person but I guess I expected more from Felicity. I think they could have had her starting to explain/break up then having them be interrupted by all the drama with Roy. Then the break up in 3x20 would have been a formality, Palmer could have initiated it. But the way they wrote 3x19, it seemed like Felicity would have been happy in the status quo and that doesn't sit well with me. I know why they did that, they wanted Oliver jealous of their closeness while trying to work with Palmer. However, it just was not logical, character wise, for them to be close. They should have been awkward. What s3 showed me is that plot always takes precedence for the writers.

 

I hope they respect the characters they created more in s4.

 

ETA: Not saying ILY back, especially after dating for was it 2 months, is not a deal breaker for a lot of people. She could feel it but not be ready to say it, she could be falling but wanting to wait a little before saying the words out loud. I understand wanting to take the pressure off. What prompted him to break up was not that but seeing her with Oliver and realizing childhood traumas, not feeling it yet or bad past experiences were not the reason she couldn't say it but rather that she was in love with someone else.

 

With Felicity we have a problem because we didn't get to see her POV. Did she know she was in love with Oliver since 3x01? Did she not realize it until her mother told her? Was she being nice to Palmer until she was ready to break up? Was she planning on staying with him because Oliver will never be available, in hope one day she'll fall for Palmer? I guess we'll never know.

Edited August 8, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[AyChihuahua]

They also had been dating for like a month. I've broken up with guys by email after dating for only a month. Quick and easy, no major drama. In fact, barring true romance, he's a weirdo for saying that after such a short time (among so many other things that make him a weirdo).

[apinknightmare]

I imagine the situation might have been complicated because he was her boss. Yet another reason why that's a bad idea. 

[statsgirl]

I look at Felicity's dating history and the impression we got from her that she thought she wasn't good enough. 

 

She lived with the idea that Cooper had committed suicide because of her for five years, and then she found out that he was a villain.  We don't know of anyone she was in a relationship with in the meantime. Oliver had dumped her at the start of the season, and her other option, Barry, was in love with someone else.  

 

Also, I can see Donna with a succession of men who weren't good enough for her but she didn't have the self-esteem to kick them out, and Felicity could have internalized that.

 

Ray had been good to her, he'd given her a promotion and his trust and probably let her keep the dress.  There were lots of 'pro' things about him, and when he did treat her badly in 3x17, it would have been normal to treat that as the outlier and not his previous behaviour.  It's a reason why women don't get out of abusive situations in time, they take the abusive behaviour to be out of character for the SO and think it won't happen again.

[BkWurm1]

I think they could have had her starting to explain/break up then having them be interrupted by all the drama with Roy.

 

Sigh, yeah, that would have been nice. 

 

Pins hope on season four for improvement. 

I look at Felicity's dating history and the impression we got from her that she thought she wasn't good enough. 

 

She lived with the idea that Cooper had committed suicide because of her for five years, and then she found out that he was a villain.  We don't know of anyone she was in a relationship with in the meantime. Oliver had dumped her at the start of the season, and her other option, Barry, was in love with someone else.  

 

Also, I can see Donna with a succession of men who weren't good enough for her but she didn't have the self-esteem to kick them out, and Felicity could have internalized that.

 

Ray had been good to her, he'd given her a promotion and his trust and probably let her keep the dress.  There were lots of 'pro' things about him, and when he did treat her badly in 3x17, it would have been normal to treat that as the outlier and not his previous behaviour.  It's a reason why women don't get out of abusive situations in time, they take the abusive behaviour to be out of character for the SO and think it won't happen again.

To be fair to Ray, I think in this case it may have actually been the outlier of behavior. 

[statsgirl]

If this was the outlier, and it may have been triggered by his PTSD over Anna, then it's understandable that Felicity didn't end their relationship at that point.  When he said "I love you" and Donna made her realize why she didn't love him back, that would have been the time she started to think that she needs to break up with him. But then the whirlwind of Oliver being arrested and Roy in jail happened, and there was no good time to just sit and think about things.

[steeledwithakiss]

We never really saw her in a relationship apart from Palmer, so I'm really hoping it's not the way she is when in a relationship and it was only the writers wanting to have the break up in 3x20. I don't know if it was the power dynamic (him being her boss) but she didn't even get to be angry with him after they got together.

 

She's always been her own person with Oliver, and she's never been afraid to speak her own mind with him. Hoping the writers don't change that.

[statsgirl]

We saw her with Cooper and she did pull the plug when he went overboard with her program but she didn't hold any anger at him over it in their next scene.

[steeledwithakiss]

Yeah, seems like Felicity holds grudges only towards people who hurt people she cares about, not herself.

[kismet]

Waves of bad Pod Felicity moments are just inundating me right now. I can never forgive the writers for what they did to FS to try to get the dead weight that was Palmer afloat. He was a shackle around her all season that just got progressively worse until finally they let him talk to other people. But by then the damage was done. As much as it is complicated, I do not think that the FS that I've come to know would have waited until 320 to break up with Ray. I definitely think she would have called it off in 319 (if not earlier), if there wasn't a need for a crossover events. Then again, by the time 319/320 rolled around FS was barely acting like FS around RP, so perhaps she might have just hung in there until RP called it off. It was just a poorly executed romantic stall & even a worse introduction for a character (RP).

 

That being said, at some point I have to accept that even though it was done for plot purposes - these are still things that the character did in the show & thus are part of the story & character narratives. I can keep on writing that caveat "for plot purposes" to make myself feel better - but it doesn't erase that the character did it. This sad fact is true for just about every character in s3 of Arrow, it caused some major damage to a lot of the characters. I think FS took the worst blow, but Oliver & Diggle are not too far behind. Fingers-crossed for s4 that "for plot purposes" is neither something the writers dwell on or something we type a lot here.

Edited August 8, 2015 by kismet

[EmilyBettFan]

Even though Felicity was told by Diggle basically not to date anyone she still tells him Oliver should be the one to say it. Also if you notice in the video he says "alright okay" or whatever and she says bye sweetly. She still doesn't hold what Diggle said against him and is on good terms with the way her voice sounded at the end. She still wished him away pleasantly.

[kismet]

In Social Media Thread -

SmallScreenDiva, on 08 Aug 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

    Seeing Felicity get more self-defense training is something fans have been asking for since S1. My head canon is that Diggle has been training her a little, hence the move she pulled on Cooper (which was actually pretty slick). Like a lot of the folks here, I do not need her to be a super fighter. That's not her main skill. I have no problems with the fighters defending/protecting her during missions. But I do want to see the training on screen, so those who apparently can't connect the dots/make the jump would shut up about how unbelievable it was that Felicity could bring Cooper down because she's not trained. I want to see the training because Felicity in workout gear is a cutie. And I want part of the training to come from Oliver. Because, as TrueMyth mentioned, ST during combat training is a trope for a reason ;) It could even just be a scene with Oliver and Felicity horsing around and she pulls a move on him and they mention it's something he'd taught her during their 5-month honeymoon

Agree with all you said. I have also always have 2 side canons in my head that FS also learned the "SING" method or at least something very similar to be able to disable Cooper from watching Miss Congeniality. Also, FS seems like someone who went to her dorm room activities, so her method was also something I learned my freshman year in College after a lot of rapes on campus about how to protect yourself. Her moves in that episode were self-defense protection 101. Growing up in Vegas Casinos & attending MIT, I'm sure she's had some basic lessons with all the creepers she would be around. But totally agree that she needs more and some of it should be onscreen. Now that her & OQ are together it makes perfect sense both logistically & tropey wise that he would be the one to teach her. It also would make for cute, fun, flirty & sexy scenes to film/write.

 

I also think it would show character growth for OQ, that he knows even though he can & will always protect her, he wants her to be able to protect herself as well. I feel like a lot of his hesitation before was that he somehow saw her lessons as admitting that he was going to fail to protect her. But now that he is more mature, he realizes that that was never why she was asking/wanting to learn. I feel like the lessons now would be more about her and his love for her, and less about him & his ego.

[AyChihuahua]

That being said, at some point I have to accept that even though it was done for plot purposes - these are still things that the character did in the show & thus are part of the story & character narratives. I can keep on writing that caveat "for plot purposes" to make myself feel better - but it doesn't erase that the character did it. This sad fact is true for just about every character in s3 of Arrow, it caused some major damage to a lot of the characters. I think FS took the worst blow, but Oliver & Diggle are not too far behind. Fingers-crossed for s4 that "for plot purposes" is neither something the writers dwell on or something we type a lot here.

For me, it's Oliver who was harmed the most, and yeah, every single stupid blind stupid thoughtless stupid controlling stupid utterly lacking in foresight (yes, I know I said stupid four times) thing he did was for plot purposes, but it's part of his characterization now. It was basically the majority of his actions over the season. He made far fewer intelligent, well-reasoned decisions than moronic controlling decisions, so for me, that's who he is now. I can only accept OOC actions so many times before they become in-character.

For me, the balance of the season for Felicity was okay. Her problematic actions were fewer than her normal actions, so I still call them OOC. Same with Diggle. But Oliver was so dumb in so many ways in so many episodes that I now consider him to be dumb.

[kismet]

For me, it's Oliver who was harmed the most, and yeah, every single stupid blind stupid thoughtless stupid controlling stupid utterly lacking in foresight (yes, I know I said stupid four times) thing he did was for plot purposes, but it's part of his characterization now. It was basically the majority of his actions over the season. He made far fewer intelligent, well-reasoned decisions than moronic controlling decisions, so for me, that's who he is now. I can only accept OOC actions so many times before they become in-character.

For me, the balance of the season for Felicity was okay. Her problematic actions were fewer than her normal actions, so I still call them OOC. Same with Diggle. But Oliver was so dumb in so many ways in so many episodes that I now consider him to be dumb.

I think we already had a conversation about Oliver and his stupidity for plot purposes, so I don't want to rehash through it. I'm sorta hoping the writers are done making OQ dumb for plot purposes. I understand your viewpoints and most are valid. I just give OQ a little more leeway because of his PTSD, spoiled upbringing and lack of real life direction. His laser focus on the mission makes him fail to see the bigger picture so many times. He knows what he wants, but somehow doesn't know how to get it or feels he doesn't deserve it. He's so broken emotionally & even mentally. And as the season progressed he lost so many social supports or life outside of, that stupidity taking over was bound to happen.

 

However, the reason why I think that s3 was harder on FS's character was that it affected her characterization. She became unrecognizable in so many if not most of the episodes. That I began to question, if I ever really understood her character or if this was the new FS. I missed the older one that hadn't taken crap from anybody. The one that was smarter than everyone in the room. The one with the big heart & brain. It became hard to watch her become a POD version of herself. OQ is known to be a stubborn blockhead, so if some of his decisions were stupider than normal I sorta chalked it up to his PTSD, his personality, his guilt or the fact that he was removing himself from good influences. He was isolating himself, and OQ never makes the best choices in isolation. FS however is not OQ, she was never presented as someone that just ebbs along.

 

FS on the other hand, should have been stronger and more of the kickass female she had been for 2 years prior. She just seemed to lack a lot of chutzpah. I feel like she should have stood up to OQ more on a romantic front. If she wanted the relationship, she should have tried to fight for it. She never should have taken some of RP's behavior, and esp after 317 that was just out of line what he said. And then rather than calling him on it, she accused OQ of stuff. She definitely should have been more invested in the break-up. I understood why she was nice to LL, but she never should have thrown SL under the bus. She also should have taken more ownership & credit for the suit. She was fundamental for its success, but yet allowed RP to take the majority of the credit. For me there was just a litany of OOC character moments that began to make me question if this was her new character. They seemed to get it right in some episodes, but by the end of the season I was hoping for it to be over and have a return to FS or at least give her a clean slate in s4.

 

For the record though, I had no problem with her crying. Although it was a little much at points. I also don't want people to think that I only want her as a quippy sidekick or comic relief. I enjoy her having a broader and more involved role in the story. I also enjoy her showing different sides of strength & femininity. I appreciate that her intelligence is her weapon and can take down many things with a few clicks on a keyboard. I just feel like s3 let her down the most in execution. Because almost her entire storyline was forced plot moments or OOC moments for plot or character propping. OQ may have made some poor choices, but FS was barely even given opportunities to make choices and yet still managed to have damage to her character. 

[AyChihuahua]

With all the groups (many overlapping) who think various characters and other aspects (plot, sets, stunts, relationships) of the show were ruined, it seems that the primary takeaway is that S3 really, really sucked. I wonder if MG et al., have any idea how much damage they did to the show? I am betting not, because ratings were good.

[tangerine95]

With all the groups (many overlapping) who think various characters and other aspects (plot, sets, stunts, relationships) of the show were ruined, it seems that the primary takeaway is that S3 really, really sucked. I wonder if MG et al., have any idea how much damage they did to the show? I am betting not, because ratings were good.

I think they kinda do.The ratings were good but  the reviews not so much.The interviews at SDCC seemed like they were trying to correct a lot of the stuff people have complained about.Like talking about how the lighter tone will last longer then one episode,that Olicity will deal with external issues as a couple ,a better villain that actually has connections to the characters,a storyline for Felicity outside of romance,more OTA,Digg and Felicity as co leads with Oliver.Sara coming back,everyone having lives outside of the arrow cave etc. Sounds good so they just have to deliver on that and it should at least be better then season 3.