Little House On The Prairie - General Discussion

[Mr. Sparkle]

16 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Victor French was MUCH more convincing as an uncultured (but well-meaning) rube than Merlin Olsen was.

Quoted for truth! 

[debraran]

I agree, they made it seem like Merle had brain damage even other times and very "rough around the edges" The way he spoke to his wife, just in general. Mr Edwards was good in his role, he could be more sophisticated for lack of a better word if needed, but he was a product of his upbringing and funny. I never could warm up to Jonathan but I understand the acting experience was very different and his range. I think his onscreen son spoke of that once in interview.

[jird]

Harriet and Nellie were both really awful many times, but I was watching The Race recently, and that one gets my vote for just the purely meanest behavior by Harriet. Not only was Harriet going out of her way to be mean to a child, but the fact that she wanted to cheat Laura out of a fair chance at the race when the only reason that Laura couldn't run the race was because she tired out her horse to help Harriet's own son? Her behavior was just despicable.

[Blergh]

16 hours ago, debraran said:

I agree, they made it seem like Merle had brain damage even other times and very "rough around the edges" The way he spoke to his wife, just in general. Mr Edwards was good in his role, he could be more sophisticated for lack of a better word if needed, but he was a product of his upbringing and funny. I never could warm up to Jonathan but I understand the acting experience was very different and his range. I think his onscreen son spoke of that once in interview.

Oddly enough, the main time Jonathan shined was when he beat up Standish's thugs (who'd beaten up Charles for objecting to their inappropriate remarks to Mary) and told the thugs to stay away from the Ingallses. I know that they couldn't have had Mr. Olsen constantly beat up thugs but it seemed him unleashing his intimidating physical prowess temporarily fleshed out this otherwise cardboard towering sidekick who seemed more simple than having not had an education.

[Blergh]

The way they rushed the whole deal of the Garveys being the Ingallses new besties the first show of the new season (after the last sightings of the Edwardses leaving 'Gold Country' with them) instead of depicting HOW they met and became friends gets me to think it's possible that ML somewhat had attempted to rework scripts/scenarios that he'd originally had had with the Edwardses in mind.

Of course, once Alice was no more and her widower and son went to another town, it wasn't long before the remaining Garveys were out of sight and mind to the Ingallses despite their gushy goodbyes. I wouldn't be surprised if Jonathan and Andrew simply wanted to put Walnut Grove and ALL its citizens behind them and they never so much as corresponded with the Ingallses after their sendoff episode (despite their new town's somewhat close proximity to Walnut Grove).  During the Christmas episode rehash when Laura recalled the aftermath of Baby Frederick's death and said that 'Jonathan' was the most interesting person she'd met, at first her parents awkwardly thought she might have been referring to the distanced Mr. Garvey but she quickly corrected them (to their apparent relief- despite the fact that they never met this other Jonathan).

[jird]

I just saw the first couple minutes of the Highway to Heaven pilot episode, and the very first person ML encounters is that guy from LH who hitched a ride with Charles and made Charles carry him through the swamp.

[jason88cubs]

On 9/3/2022 at 11:32 AM, Egg McMuffin said:

I did hear them mention “Hero Township” on the show a few times. But yes, “Walnut Grove” sounds so cozy.

There is an opportunity for a true adaptation of the books. I never saw the 2005 miniseries, which I heard stayed closer to the source material. And another potential adaptation has been kicking around in development for the past few years. The issue is: can people put aside their memories of the original series to give it a chance. Not sure they were able to in 2005.

You are right Walnut Grove just sounds right

[Egg McMuffin]

Matthew Laborteaux’s (Albert) foray into feature films, “Deadly Friend”, is scheduled to be shown on TCM - in all its unedited, commercial free glory - on Oct 29 at 9:45 pm. Worth watching for the basketball scene alone.

[jird]

I can't decide whether real life Ma would be more disappointed by the show's depiction of Laura as super boy-crazy, or that she constantly falls for such goofballs.

[jason88cubs]

I know times were different, but I can't imagine being in that little cabin all winter.

[Mr. Sparkle]

10 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

I know times were different, but I can't imagine being in that little cabin all winter.

Have you read "The Long Winter?" 

[jason88cubs]

4 minutes ago, Superclam said:

Have you read "The Long Winter?" 

nope. Have not

[Mr. Sparkle]

It's basically the story of the Ingalls family snowed in for the winter with dwindling food and fuel. I think it's LIW's best writing. 

[Snow Apple]

I love The Long Winter even though it's bleak. They thought their supplies will last the winter, and if not, they were in town and figured they can buy what they need. But those storms lasted until May and trains couldn't get through. Early supply chain issues that we can't even imagine. 

I wish the show explored being trapped for a few episodes.

[debraran]

I agree, they missed good opportunities and shows not showing the grit of some of The Long Winter. They made the snow most of the time when it was rooftop seem like fun and other shows had them lost and were sad. No practical elements, what did they do, where did Ma have storage? How did they do dishes/laundry or keep sane. I wish they had the Xmas barrel in the show, maybe Carrie would get a gift. ; ) That was my favorite of the books because it showed how hard it was and I could almost feel my fingers bleeding and painful twisting twigs.

[Snow Apple]

I too love the parts on how they make do. As mentioned above, twisting hay to replace coal. How Ma made a candle with a button, cloth, and grease. Using a coffee grinder to mill wheat to make bread since there's no more flour.

[Zella]

The Long Winter is one of the best horror reads I've ever read. 

[Blergh]

One of the oddest events of the first blizzard of said winter was that the winds blew a bird into their house that appeared to them to have been a miniature. ..awk. They'd never seen such a bird before (or since) and evidently  even as an adult Mrs. Wilder never was able to identity what species it may have been even much less where it came from (and, I don't recall exactly what the Ingallses eventually did with it ).

[debraran]

I can see both sides with Michael and Karen (one of many disagreements) but compromise with grit would have been nice. How many of us would have liked to see a little more of what a pioneer woman did or man once in a while? Not have cooking seem so easy and smiling constantly...having laundry seem a little difficult but not always "done" and ready to hang. (Once Harriet was shown doing it I think)  Where is their root cellar or storage, not the sod house? Mentioned but never shown. Talk more of preparation for winter which is long and why did they hardly have kids reading when they did a lot then? Homework is one thing, but they did have books for pleasure. Have Caroline mention buying one for days they'd be in for many hours.

I get audiences didn't want to see reality Mike felt, probably true although Waltons for their era showed it pretty accurately. But we wanted to see Sylvia raped, your dad and others try to burn themselves (3 people to memory) houses burned with baby and loved one? I'd rather see Ma with some cuts (a suggestion of Karen's) than any of that!

Someone suggested since many American's don't research much, the love to be able to live like the Ingall;s was just to be like the TV family not real pioneers. They'd wonder why their clothes were dirty, smelled and food took hours and forget doing laundry. They'd be freezing trying to stay warm and just going to feed the animals during a snow storm would not look like lovely Caroline, perfectly coifed, skin glowing and hot coffee always ready on the stove with a smile. ; )

I accept the inaccuracies but still wish he didn't turn it dark in one way but not more realistic avenues. Just a little.

Edited October 20, 2022 by debraran

[Zella]

I agree 100%, @debraran! One of my problems I have with Michael Landon as a showrunner--and I have this problem with the Bonanza episodes he wrote/directed, you can always tell when it is him--is he seems to mistake melodrama for conflict and tension and he defaults to over-the-top, two-dimensional bad guys for antagonists rather than anything with any nuance. (His other go-to is making sure his character is the savior, but that is less pertinent to this conversation. LOL) 

There is a ton of conflict and tension to be mined from everyday life in that time period and nature is a great source for conflict. It didn't always have to be Harriet being a bitch or ever have to be a mime rapist. 

Actually I just realized him making himself the savior probably is pertinent since I think he was aware that you can't really write a character going up against nature and winning. So, no wonder he wasn't particularly interested in those stories. 

One of the things that disappoints me with the show--and I say this as someone who genuinely enjoys the first few seasons--is that the pilot movie was surprisingly gritty for the time. They could have easily maintained that tone for the TV show if they'd wanted to.

BTW, for those of y'all who liked The Long Winter and like less rosier depictions of pioneer life, you might like Melanie Benjamin's The Children's Blizzard. It's about a later blizzard (the infamous one from 1888) than what Wilder wrote about, but it's a pretty good book that I read around the same time I was reading the LHOTP books. 

[Snow Apple]

15 hours ago, Blergh said:

One of the oddest events of the first blizzard of said winter was that the winds blew a bird into their house that appeared to them to have been a miniature. ..awk. They'd never seen such a bird before (or since) and evidently  even as an adult Mrs. Wilder never was able to identity what species it may have been even much less where it came from (and, I don't recall exactly what the Ingallses eventually did with it ).

I felt bad the for the poor little thing. It wouldn't eat anything they provided and just looked at them desperately. In the end, they took it to the lake that was already starting to freeze up and it ran over the water and then finally flew away.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Snow Apple

[debraran]

7 hours ago, Zella said:

I agree 100%, @debraran! One of my problems I have with Michael Landon as a showrunner--and I have this problem with the Bonanza episodes he wrote/directed, you can always tell when it is him--is he seems to mistake melodrama for conflict and tension and he defaults to over-the-top, two-dimensional bad guys for antagonists rather than anything with any nuance. (His other go-to is making sure his character is the savior, but that is less pertinent to this conversation. LOL) 

There is a ton of conflict and tension to be mined from everyday life in that time period and nature is a great source for conflict. It didn't always have to be Harriet being a bitch or ever have to be a mime rapist. 

Actually I just realized him making himself the savior probably is pertinent since I think he was aware that you can't really write a character going up against nature and winning. So, no wonder he wasn't particularly interested in those stories. 

One of the things that disappoints me with the show--and I say this as someone who genuinely enjoys the first few seasons--is that the pilot movie was surprisingly gritty for the time. They could have easily maintained that tone for the TV show if they'd wanted to.

BTW, for those of y'all who liked The Long Winter and like less rosier depictions of pioneer life, you might like Melanie Benjamin's The Children's Blizzard. It's about a later blizzard (the infamous one from 1888) than what Wilder wrote about, but it's a pretty good book that I read around the same time I was reading the LHOTP books. 

Yes I loved the pilot, and that's why Karen thought her ideas would be good since it was grittier. Maybe she should have told a guy and had him mention it to Michael and he would have let her have dirty hands once in a while gardening. ; )

I didn't like how almost every guy was mean and racist and cold outside main cast and forget the city, I think that was considered hell on earth. (until Charles wanted to move there) Make the unlikable people have more than one dimension. They do that more now, give people layers because it's more realistic.

Edited October 20, 2022 by debraran

[jird]

I saw Trick 'R Treat tonight, and in one scene I recognized the background schoolyard noise from LH (where you can hear Laura yelling "Nellie!"). It's funny enough in LH episodes where Laura's the teacher and they're still using it, but I was not expecting it here. 

[debraran]

Speaking of over the top "mean" guys or totally bizarre, the football coach is one of them. Had it on as background while I had dinner. I forgot how bad it was and how Albert with his 3 broken ribs and coaches son with his bloody nose, dominated the script of work harder, play harder, have your grades drop, complain, go back and do it again, get beat up, etc etc.

The lovely demure wife with a** husband was meant to represent some bad coaches but really can any "extra" be a good dad. He didn't have horses to sell, he didn't drink, but still. He wants to trade his son for Albert after one meeting.....please take him. ; )

Also a small thing in the missing items category, but did the blind girls painting she gave Caroline (pretty large) end up with the glass dishes?  : )

Edited October 23, 2022 by debraran

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, debraran said:

Speaking of over the top "mean" guys or totally bizarre, the football coach is one of them. Had it on as background while I had dinner. I forgot how bad it was and how Albert with his 3 broken ribs and coaches son with his bloody nose, dominated the script of work harder, play harder, have your grades drop, complain, go back and do it again, get beat up, etc etc.

The lovely demure wife with a** husband was meant to represent some bad coaches but really can any "extra" be a good dad. He didn't have horses to sell, he didn't drink, but still. He wants to trade his son for Albert after one meeting.....please take him. ; )

Also a small thing in the missing items category, but did the blind girls painting she gave Caroline (pretty large) end up with the glass dishes?  : )

 What I also thought was bogus re the coach episode was that he was utterly oblivious to his poor wife's pleadings (and it seemed she'd been doing so for YEARS) to become more reasonable and try to be a better father to their offspring, yet Albert at the end just makes an offhand remark about how football loses its appeal when it become too intense instead of fun and THAT alone causes the coach to do a 180 re his entire life priorities and philosophy. Yeah, that's as believable as an old hermit having convinced himself for decades that his beautiful wife would one day return once she got bored with theater life and Laura leaving a single Bible verse for him to find got him to face the reality of his wife's death!

 Of course, both these characters were one-shots so who knows if they didn't go back to their old ruts the very next day!

[ctlady]

While watching Laura Ingalls-Wilder Pt1 yesterday.  I just realized a weird inconsistency.  At the end of He Loves Me, He Loves Me Not 2 , Percival doesn't want to get married in a church because he's Jewish, yet here - and in a few episodes after that - he's seen attending Sunday mass with Nellie and her family.  If he was staunch about not getting married in church, why would he attend regular mass?

I also have to admit that I searched all over the internet to find a chunky, black, locked diary similar to the one Eliza Jane had.  I just love the look of that little book

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, ctlady said:

Percival doesn't want to get married in a church because he's Jewish, yet here - and in a few episodes after that - he's seen attending Sunday mass with Nellie and her family.  If he was staunch about not getting married in church, why would he attend regular mass?

I agree it's a very weird inconsistency, but I don't think they were attending mass. I could be wrong, but to me, that's specifically a Catholic service, and their church was always depicted as being a Protestant service. 

[ctlady]

15 minutes ago, Zella said:

but to me, that's specifically a Catholic service, and their church was always depicted as being a Protestant service. 

I just used the term 'mass'.  Regardless of the denomination, it was Sunday church service/worship as opposed to Friday night through Sat afternoon Shabbat temple worship as we see Percival and his father do in Come Let Us Reason Together

[jason88cubs]

Do you think if i went to a store and made a younger person mad to where they wanted to fight me  and started throwing wild punches, do you think if I kept saying "i don't wanna hit you son" over and over they would start crying and hug me?

[Mr. Sparkle]

14 minutes ago, jason88cubs said:

Do you think if i went to a store and made a younger person mad to where they wanted to fight me  and started throwing wild punches, do you think if I kept saying "i don't wanna hit you son" over and over they would start crying and hug me?

I would bet the worst farm in Hero Township on it! 

[Blergh]

6 hours ago, Superclam said:

I would bet the worst farm in Hero Township on it! 

Which one? The Ingallses or the Garveys? BTW, when Alice was teaching,grading papers,etc. was she ALSO doing all the cooking, cleaning,etc. since I never heard a hint that either of the males were attempting to do so?

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Which one? The Ingallses or the Garveys? BTW, when Alice was teaching,grading papers,etc. was she ALSO doing all the cooking, cleaning,etc. since I never heard a hint that either of the males were attempting to do so?

LHOTP was always so bad about the actual logistics of pioneer life. I've ranted about this before but they ignore the importance of boardinghouse life for single people, and the burden of domestic chores was a big factor in it. So many of the characters would have been in a boarding house IRL.

[Mr. Sparkle]

7 hours ago, Blergh said:

Which one? The Ingallses or the Garveys? BTW, when Alice was teaching,grading papers,etc. was she ALSO doing all the cooking, cleaning,etc. since I never heard a hint that either of the males were attempting to do so?

It's a good question, since terrible things happened to both families. 

In this case, I was thinking Ingalls, if only for the tornado that only got them. 

[jason88cubs]

it's been awhile since I have seen any of the later episodes but did Caroline work evenings at the restaurant ?

How would Charles eat? Did eh go there to eat and get it for free?

[debraran]

I thought Caroline was supposed to work for a short time to get money for the blind schoolor something they needed. Money was good and she promised to keep everything at home fine.

I thought the restaurant brought some humor and storylines but it never made sense that anyone living hand to mouth could afford it and why would Walnut Grove have that many outsiders coming through that would waste money there vs eating a sandwich from home?

I suppose you suspend reality of how they afforded all the food and how much money they actually made but it helped give them another place to be other than the store or church.

I always wondered why no matter how many good contracts Charles got, extra money Caroline made, extra jobs, they always seemed the same. What really shocked me is when Albert and Laura had so much money from their honey business they could pay for Mary and Adam to go somewhere (and we know what a disaster that was) but it was a LOT of money back then. 60.00! That was a lot of money. I thought when Charles did a dangerous job for 100 it was a lot but his daughter and son hustled that amount with just bees. ; ) Too bad it was "lost" in a sense on the trip. Ingall's curse.

Edited October 29, 2022 by debraran

[Blergh]

18 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought Caroline was supposed to work for a short time to get money for the blind schoolor something they needed. Money was good and she promised to keep everything at home fine.

I thought the restaurant brought some humor and storylines but it never made sense that anyone living hand to mouth could afford it and why would Walnut Grove have that many outsiders coming through that would waste money there vs eating a sandwich from home?

I suppose you suspend reality of how they afforded all the food and how much money they actually made but it helped give them another place to be other than the store or church.

I always wondered why no matter how many good contracts Charles got, extra money Caroline made, extra jobs, they always seemed the same. What really shocked me is when Albert and Laura had so much money from their honey business they could pay for Mary and Adam to go somewhere (and we know what a disaster that was) but it was a LOT of money back then. 60.00! That was a lot of money. I thought when Charles did a dangerous job for 100 it was a lot but his daughter and son hustled that amount with just bees. ; ) Too bad it was "lost" in a sense on the trip. Ingall's curse.

IIRC, Charles had been injured by the millstone hitting him in the chest and arm but sparing his lower body so Caroline went to work at Nellie's Hotel supposedly as a stop-gap measure until Charles's ribs and arm knitted but she was there until she and the rest of them decamped for the mean streets of big bad Burr Oak, Iowa! Anyway, consider the HUGE amount of sheer time and hard work it would have taken Caroline for her farm chores and housework to keep her large family well-fed, cleanly and intactly clothed,etc., I thought it was bogus that neither she nor Charles even thought to ask (much less did the individuals consider volunteering) Laura, Albert or Carrie to take over her tasks while she was working the hotel shift with Grace somehow perfectly fine staying in the high chair  watching Caroline cook and wash dishes the whole time. Yeah, her middle three would have had less time to have adventures or get into mischief and it would have presented a writing challenge but families from way back had had to learn to somehow keep things going on the homefront when both parents (or their single parent) worked!

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

IIRC, Charles had been injured by the millstone hitting him in the chest and arm but sparing his lower body so Caroline went to work at Nellie's Hotel supposedly as a stop-gap measure until Charles's ribs and arm knitted but she was there until she and the rest of them decamped for the mean streets of big bad Burr Oak, Iowa! Anyway, consider the HUGE amount of sheer time and hard work it would have taken Caroline for her farm chores and housework to keep her large family well-fed, cleanly and intactly clothed,etc., I thought it was bogus that neither she nor Charles even thought to ask (much less did the individuals consider volunteering) Laura, Albert or Carrie to take over her tasks while she was working the hotel shift with Grace somehow perfectly fine staying in the high chair  watching Caroline cook and wash dishes the whole time. Yeah, her middle three would have had less time to have adventures or get into mischief and it would have presented a writing challenge but families from way back had had to learn to somehow keep things going on the homefront when both parents (or their single parent) worked!

Yes, that was the "suspend reality" part for sure. It took very long hours to get things done. Grace must have had diaper changes and had to be fed. When viewers watched, I bet many of them thought of their chores getting done quickly with dishwashers, laundry washers and dryers, grocery stores with premade meals and stoves that cooked things much faster. But at least Saint Charles had her work, others were "I'd rather starve".lol.  Funny when Harriet, a woman, was running the store most of the time. I guess the "educated" ones even back then were shown with more sense but I'm glad they had Charles be the somewhat sensible one at times, just a little over the top. Percival was also that way but a city boy.

I had forgotten myself of the outside chores, feeding, milking, getting eggs, tending garden, etc.  It would have been nice to see even a minute clip of kids doing barn work or milking cow etc to make it more believable. Maybe Carrie could have been shown doing something too. ; )

Edited October 30, 2022 by debraran

[jird]

That's what always drove me crazy about the episode where pregnant Laura keels over trying to maintain the orchars while Charles and Almanzo are out of town. She couldn't see the sense in James and Albert splitting up or sharing the chores at her farm and theirs? Or having Carrie and Cassandra at least come help her a little bit? But I guess then we wouldn't have gotten wise Ma telling parables to the kids at the end.

[debraran]

31 minutes ago, jird said:

That's what always drove me crazy about the episode where pregnant Laura keels over trying to maintain the orchars while Charles and Almanzo are out of town. She couldn't see the sense in James and Albert splitting up or sharing the chores at her farm and theirs? Or having Carrie and Cassandra at least come help her a little bit? But I guess then we wouldn't have gotten wise Ma telling parables to the kids at the end.

Yes, and another odd thing. I'm watching the "Adam can see" episode and forgetting the strange story line, why was HIS medical expenses not ever mentioned but Charles had Mary almost get kicked out because he couldn't pay. They don't have money. How did other people they show in the hospital pay? I thought of it when they said he was out of surgery.

I thought the pioneers, like the Amish, were more helpful to each other. Like when they were rabid over the guy who had an accident delivering their seed and his pregnant wife wanted to leave, they helped him out. I thought it took a while for others to help Charles with his broken ribs stack the grain, watching the kids, but I guess that was for effect. ; )

[Zella]

2 hours ago, debraran said:

I thought the pioneers, like the Amish, were more helpful to each other. Like when they were rabid over the guy who had an accident delivering their seed and his pregnant wife wanted to leave, they helped him out. I thought it took a while for others to help Charles with his broken ribs stack the grain, watching the kids, but I guess that was for effect. ; )

The townspeople in that episode are so awful. If that woman had sat the whole town on fire before leaving, I wouldn't have blamed her. 

[Mr. Sparkle]

42 minutes ago, Zella said:

The townspeople in that episode are so awful. If that woman had sat the whole town on fire before leaving, I wouldn't have blamed her. 

Seriously. They went from zero to angry mob in about 20 seconds. 

And of course, even though they said they were staying, we never saw them again. 

[debraran]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

The townspeople in that episode are so awful. If that woman had sat the whole town on fire before leaving, I wouldn't have blamed her. 

Best part was Harriet kicking the ignoramus's out.  ; )

[Blergh]

On 10/30/2022 at 4:14 PM, Superclam said:

Seriously. They went from zero to angry mob in about 20 seconds. 

And of course, even though they said they were staying, we never saw them again. 

That's not the only incident of vigilantism that happened. Let's not forget that when Adam stupidly defended the property fraud who'd swindled virtually all of Walnut Grove, someone threw a brick through his window frightening Adam's still-blind wife Mary. Yet, not only was this individual never charged or even caught, but not even Adam himself considered attempting  to find out WHO deliberately broke his window. So, they and the Ingalls had to live with the knowledge that there was at least one fellow citizen who was willing to vandalize with the probable intent to terrorize them.

[jird]

It's Election Day (in the US) - everybody remember to vote for Elmer!

[Mr. Sparkle]

4 minutes ago, jird said:

It's Election Day (in the US) - everybody remember to vote for Elmer!

For whatever reason, that's one I either missed or skipped. I've only seen it once or twice. 

We never saw Elmer again, did we? 

[Blergh]

22 minutes ago, Superclam said:

For whatever reason, that's one I either missed or skipped. I've only seen it once or twice. 

We never saw Elmer again, did we? 

Nope but somehow the class managed to limb along without a visible class president(and they evidently did NOT let Nellie run things in his place as the runner up).

[jird]

If I had to see this, so do you. 

[Katy M]

19 minutes ago, jird said:

If I had to see this, so do you. 

Whiz Kids. I vaguely remember that show.  I hated break dancing even in the '80s. But, even so, that did not look like particularly good breakdancing.  I think I see why they deleted the scene.

[CountryGirl]

It's better than his letter writing skills. 

[ctlady]

3 hours ago, Superclam said:

For whatever reason, that's one I either missed or skipped. I've only seen it once or twice. 

We never saw Elmer again, did we?

Never saw Dr. LeDeaux again either - even though he agreed to stay on