Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, bkathi said:

Emergency is on COZI TV - if you get that channel.

Yep and he looks completely different there. He plays a good guy, clean cut straight arrow. The diametric opposite of creepy  Lingard. You wouldn't recognize him as being the same actor.

[WendyCR72]

Film director and recurring CI character actor Peter Bogdanovich has died at 82. He played George Merritt, the answer to Hugh Hefner in charge of fictional Privilege (a.k.a. the bargain-basement version of Playboy!) magazine, in "Sex Club" and "Bombshell".

I never knew "Sex Club" was based on something true, as well. (And involved someone who appeared on this very show later on!) Scroll down to background info.

[WendyCR72]

Watching the end of "Collective", a.k.a. the poor man's Anne Rice episode, and I see "Stress Position" is airing next, so I guess WE is not pulling Chris Noth episodes.

[WendyCR72]

Ironically, as I had just mentioned it a couple days ago, "Sex Club" is on WE (featuring the now-late Peter Bogdanovich) now. And after that, is creepy Tommy Onorato (Chris Penn) in "Death Roe".

[Xeliou66]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Ironically, as I had just mentioned it a couple days ago, "Sex Club" is on WE (featuring the now-late Peter Bogdanovich) now. And after that, is creepy Tommy Onorato (Chris Penn) in "Death Roe".

As I’ve said before, Tommy from Death Roe is one of the most evil monsters in the history of CI, hell the history of the whole L&O franchise, as Goren said, he’s an ogre. I love the episode but Tommy was just an abominable excuse for a human being - setting up an elaborate scheme to brutally murder 2 people all so he could continue to rape his daughter. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

As I’ve said before, Tommy from Death Roe is one of the most evil monsters in the history of CI, hell the history of the whole L&O franchise, as Goren said, he’s an ogre. I love the episode but Tommy was just an abominable excuse for a human being - setting up an elaborate scheme to brutally murder 2 people all so he could continue to rape his daughter. 

It's so weird to think he played the sweet Willard (and looked so different physically!) in the original Footloose. As disgusting as Tommy was, Chris Penn played the hell out of the role.

In other news, I know he had expressed interest prior on Twitter a couple years ago, but here is a new article from yesterday where, again, VDO seems open to revisiting Bobby Goren.

Will it happen? Who knows.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

It's so weird to think he played the sweet Willard (and looked so different physically!) in the original Footloose. As disgusting as Tommy was, Chris Penn played the hell out of the role.

I know he had expressed interest prior on Twitter a couple years ago, but here is a new article from yesterday where, again, VDO seems open to revising Bobby Goren.

Will it happen? Who knows.

Well, they're bringing back Mothership, so maybe there will be room for a brilliant retired consulting detective ala Mycroft Holmes?

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

It's so weird to think he played the sweet Willard (and looked so different physically!) in the original Footloose. As disgusting as Tommy was, Chris Penn played the hell out of the role.

In other news, I know he had expressed interest prior on Twitter a couple years ago, but here is a new article from yesterday where, again, VDO seems open to revisiting Bobby Goren.

Will it happen? Who knows.

I would love to see Goren again - but only under certain circumstances. I don’t want him on modern day SVU, which is a total shitshow soap opera that shits on popular characters for no reason, keep Goren far away from the St Olivia hour. If they were to do a Criminal Intent movie or something with Goren and Eames working on a case, that would be awesome, and I would be happy to see Goren on the Mothership revival as well, obviously I have no clue if the revival will be any good but it would be cool to have Goren and Jack McCoy share a scene. 

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I would love to see Goren again - but only under certain circumstances. I don’t want him on modern day SVU, which is a total shitshow soap opera that shits on popular characters for no reason, keep Goren far away from the St Olivia hour. If they were to do a Criminal Intent movie or something with Goren and Eames working on a case, that would be awesome, and I would be happy to see Goren on the Mothership revival as well, obviously I have no clue if the revival will be any good but it would be cool to have Goren and Jack McCoy share a scene. 

Yeah, I'm curious about Goren/McCoy, myself. And it goes without saying, but I'd want Kathryn Erbe/Alex Eames returning, too. I'd love to see both interact with McCoy since both characters never had the opportunity on Criminal Intent.

[peacheslatour]

31 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I'm curious about Goren/McCoy, myself. And it goes without saying, but I'd want Kathryn Erbe/Alex Eames returning, too. I'd love to see both interact with McCoy since both characters never had the opportunity on Criminal Intent.

That was a foolish omission.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

That was a foolish omission.

Yeah, but CI seemed on its own island, especially in its USA Network years, so...

[Xeliou66]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:34 PM, peacheslatour said:

That was a foolish omission.

Oh yes I really wish McCoy had appeared on CI at some point, I really would’ve loved a McCoy/Carver interaction. CI should’ve done more crossovers, as I’ve said many times before.

[WendyCR72]

You would think I'd remember this, as I was 17/18 in 1989/1990, but I have zero memory of this show. But I read on Facebook that Jamey Sheridan once headlined a show (first a movie) on NBC called Shannon's Deal co-starring the late Elizabeth Peña. He played a lawyer. Here is its opening, apparently:

Huh. Found an apparently complete episode:

 

[WendyCR72]

I see WE will be showing "Wee..." (a.k.a. both parts of "In The Wee Small Hours") late tonight. As my work hours are so damned strange and the snow is falling (damn storm!), at least there will be something to watch, even if I already have, a bunch. But like @Xeliou66 says, it is among the better CI episodes.

I always did wonder just how an ex-judge fares in prison. Probably as well as ex-cops. Ol' Hal probably spent 23 hours a day in solitary or something.

[Xeliou66]

12 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I see WE will be showing "Wee..." (a.k.a. both parts of "In The Wee Small Hours") late tonight. As my work hours are so damned strange and the snow is falling (damn storm!), at least there will be something to watch, even if I already have, a bunch. But like @Xeliou66 says, it is among the better CI episodes.

I always did wonder just how an ex-judge fares in prison. Probably as well as ex-cops. Ol' Hal probably spent 23 hours a day in solitary or something.

I’ll tune in if I’m still awake, that’s my favorite CI episode, so much to love about it - the in depth 2 hour case, Goren/Eames working with Logan/Barek, courtroom scenes, memorable dialogue, memorable villains etc.

Yeah I bet “Hot Tub Harry” went into solitary, he wouldn’t fare well with the general prison population. I still would love to know what sentences the Garrett’s got, I hope the mother went away for life for murdering the girl, and Ethan got off easy for his role because they needed his testimony. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’ll tune in if I’m still awake, that’s my favorite CI episode, so much to love about it - the in depth 2 hour case, Goren/Eames working with Logan/Barek, courtroom scenes, memorable dialogue, memorable villains etc.

Yeah I bet “Hot Tub Harry” went into solitary, he wouldn’t fare well with the general prison population. I still would love to know what sentences the Garrett’s got, I hope the mother went away for life for murdering the girl, and Ethan got off easy for his role because they needed his testimony. 

I'd like to think all three Garretts got what they deserved. But since they had money and power, well...

But I'd like to think the jury didn't care and were smart with each Garrett.

[WendyCR72]

Proof that sometimes art imitates life, there is a big news story in my neck of the woods about a funeral home, which had lost its license, having had decomposing bodies and unidentified cremated remains on the property.

How sad and traumatic.

"Dead" came to mind for me immediately. I guess the only good thing is the remains were not used in other crimes, like they were for Harry Rowan.

[peacheslatour]

I loved that episode. Goren "Mmm, the air smells so fresh here."

[Xeliou66]

57 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Proof that sometimes art imitates life, there is a big news story in my neck of the woods about a funeral home, which had lost its license, having had decomposing bodies and unidentified cremated remains on the property.

How sad and traumatic.

"Dead" came to mind for me immediately. I guess the only good thing is the remains were not used in other crimes, like they were for Harry Rowan.

Yeah there was a real life case at the time of the episode airing about the same situation happening, in Georgia I believe, that served as the inspiration for Dead. Not surprising really that it’s happened again. I love that episode as well, really wild case with Goren at his finest.

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah there was a real life case at the time of the episode airing about the same situation happening, in Georgia I believe, that served as the inspiration for Dead. Not surprising really that it’s happened again. I love that episode as well, really wild case with Goren at his finest.

I just hope DNA can be used - where possible - to identify these people for their families or whatever. Just unfathomable, to me, that stuff like this keeps happening.

[peacheslatour]

I just gotta say how much I love Eames. I'm watching Inert Dwarf right now and Eames is interrogating the wife of the wheelchair confined genius. She's asking about "special tricks to get things going" . The woman is getting really upset and acting all insulted. Eames: "Well, if you're gonna be a prude about it." Cracked me the hell up.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I just gotta say how much I love Eames. I'm watching Inert Dwarf right now and Eames is interrogating the wife of the wheelchair confined genius. She's asking about "special tricks to get things going" . The woman is getting really upset and acting all insulted. Eames: "Well, if you're gonna be a prude about it." Cracked me the hell up.

Yeah, I did get a kick out of that.

I noticed from S1 on, how gradually Alex loosened up, both in clothing [seriously, early on, while more realistic, she was in the blazers and dress pants and all buttoned up! And then it became more casual!] and in attitude/tone.

I think being partnered with Bobby allowed Alex to sort of enjoy the cat/mouse games and not be so black/white about everything. But Kathryn Erbe was perfect with her timing/tone as far as snark went. I think Jerry Orbach/Lennie Briscoe, King of the One Liners, would be proud. 😋

[peacheslatour]

The Wee Small Hours is starting right now on Sundance. 2PM PT.

[WendyCR72]

WE late night/early morning will be showing "Silencer" and "Rocket Man" from S6 tomorrow at 1:00 a.m. ET. Already discussed interpreter Peter Lyons being rather pointless (I know, the department probably wanted an "official" interpreter to avoid any chance of confusion or to help the perp walk, but Bobby seemed to do pretty decently with sign language. And the...whatever...with Alex, as I said, went nowhere!), but I do like this focused on the deaf community.

I like "Rocketman" if just for the scene where Bobby asks Alex, "Do you think I'm angry?" as she sort of smiles as they exit the observation room.

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 1/13/2021 at 6:05 PM, Ebau said:

 

I love Ben Jabituya. (Try saying his last name slowly and out loud. Sleaziness abounds.) But here are some great, sorta sleazy Ben quotes from Short Circuit for your amusement:

"I am thinking that she is a virgin. Or at least she used to be."

"I am sporting a tremendous woody!"

"With excitement like this, who is needing enemas?"

"Ooh, her pants are blazing for you, Newton Crosby!"

"Did she stick her tongue down your throat?"

Stephanie: "Would you quit doing that?" Ben: "You think I'm doing that for my own self-gratification?"

Number 5: "Benjamin Jabituya. Delete. Exit. Depart. Leave." Ben: "Eat my dust, Newton Crosby. Let us break wind!"

"Bye-bye, goofy woman. I enjoyed repeatedly throwing you to the ground."

Now that I think about it, those lines would also work for Gareth Sage and Ray Barnett. Talk about type casting.

Cheers!

This movie and the character Stevens played was a fucking insult. They couldn't find or cast someone who was actually Indian (South Asian)???!!!🤬🤬 The name is also FUCKING OFFENSIVE.

On 1/13/2021 at 9:34 PM, WendyCR72 said:

On another note, "Senseless" was on in the middle of the night on Oxygen a few nights back, the one where the three college kids were gunned down in a park. I think it was one of the darker episodes of the series, especially since the perp was so COLD, saying to the mirror [where he thought Naomi was, who had actually died] something to the effect that he should have killed her for real.

What struck me was Ben Vereen as the father of one of the victims. I was rather surprised for such a name that he only had the brief scene in the church with Logan and Falacci. If this episode was a season later, he could have been reunited with his Tenspeed and Brownshoe co-star, Jeff Goldblum.

But Mike Logan was perfect for this one, I think. His fury was deep and worked here. Also just a bit jarring that Falacci was in such a heavy episode and then just gone in the next [when Julianne Nicholson returned from maternity leave]. I think Alicia Witt did manage to tone down Falacci's hair-trigger attitude well for this one. I so felt for Naomi and Ty's parents. Losing both twins and so brutally is something no parent should endure.

I so MUCH preferred Falacci. She at least had a personality. I found Nicholson's Wheeler so bland, flat and uninteresting. She had more passion and personality when she was on the mothership, accused of killing the victim, who she thought was her half brother.

On 1/13/2022 at 12:38 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes I really wish McCoy had appeared on CI at some point, I really would’ve loved a McCoy/Carver interaction. CI should’ve done more crossovers, as I’ve said many times before.

While Jack didn't appear on this show, Carver did appear as...Carver (and not the other two different characters from season 1 and 5) and he had scenes with Jack. I'm blanking on the episode.

I'm back to watching, and it's season 6 on WE and so fucking infuriating. I loathe, hate, despise Ross with the heat of a gazillion million nuns!

And I have discovered I can differentiate between the actor and character. There are a lot of things about "World's Fair" that drive me batty, but Mike slamming his fist on the table when questioning that turd piece of shit who was manhandling the chainsaw and Tariq, the arranged for husband for Meera, are two of my favorite scenes.

Logan: "This is a strip club, Mr. Amir. Was it a pure one?"

Edited February 1, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Xeliou66]

Just now, GHScorpiosRule said:

This movie and the character Stevens played was a fucking insult. They couldn't find or cast someone who was actually Indian (South Asian)???!!!🤬🤬

I so MUCH preferred Falacci. She at least had a personality. I found Nicholson's Wheeler so bland, flat and uninteresting. She had more passion and personality when she was on the mothership, accused of killing the victim, who she thought was her half brother.

While Jack didn't appear on this show, Carver did appear as...Carver (and not the other two different characters from season 1 and 5) and he had scenes with Jack. I'm blanking on the episode.

I'm back to watching, and it's season 6 on WE and so fucking infuriating. I loathe, hate, despise Ross with the heat of a gazillion million nuns!

And I have discovered I can differentiate between the actor and character. There are a lot of things about "World's Fair" that drive me batty, but Mike slamming his fist on the table when questioning that turd piece of shit who was manhandling the chainsaw and Tariq, the arranged for husband for Meera, are two of my favorite scenes.

Logan: "This is a strip club, Mr. Amir. Was it a pure one?"

No Carver never appeared on the Mothership or on any other L&O show besides CI. He was referenced once on the Mothership, Nora mentioned his name, saying “maybe I should have Ron Carver second chair this one”, I think the episode was season 12’s Three Dawg Night. But Carver never crossed over to the Mothership. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

No Carver never appeared on the Mothership or on any other L&O show besides CI. He was referenced once on the Mothership, Nora mentioned his name, saying “maybe I should have Ron Carver second chair this one”, I think the episode was season 12’s Three Dawg Night. But Carver never crossed over to the Mothership. 

Huh. Why is there a scene with Jack and Carver playing in my head, then? I blame this nasty head cold!🤪

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I so MUCH preferred Falacci. She at least had a personality. I found Nicholson's Wheeler so bland, flat and uninteresting. She had more passion and personality when she was on the mothership, accused of killing the victim, who she thought was her half brother.

Agreed. She was my fav CI partner after Eames.

[Xeliou66]

I’m watching CI on Sundance, I saw Slither, this episode had so much promise and then they just ruined it with the fucking Nicole tie in, the cold open in that episode is one of CI’s best and most gripping IMO, and the whole plot about the gang robbing and killing tourists really had potential, but then they had to throw Nicole into the mix. What a waste.

Next up was Watch, I really like this episode, strong plot with a good investigation. Interesting perps in Duane and Art, and I liked how Logan and Barek got them to turn on each other. Art’s dad/Duane’s uncle was somewhat odd, he was a dick but I couldn’t tell how abusive he was. I liked Rodgers line when Barek noted the victim’s genital piercing and said something like how a West African Muslim wouldn’t have that, and Rodgers replied “nice to know some parts of the world are still civilized”.

[ML89]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Huh. Why is there a scene with Jack and Carver playing in my head, then? I blame this nasty head cold!🤪

Courtney B Vance was in a 5th season Mothership, that may be what you're remembering? "Rage" as Bud Greer the stock trader ("Not only am I smarter than them, I'm smarter than you, Detective Logan").

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, ML89 said:

Courtney B Vance was in a 5th season Mothership, that may be what you're remembering? "Rage" as Bud Greer the stock trader ("Not only am I smarter than them, I'm smarter than you, Detective Logan").

No. Like I posted above, aside from his appearances in Season 1's "By Hooker, by Crook" where he played some minion from the Governor's or Mayor's office, and "Rage" in season five, I could have sworn there was a scene with Carver and Jack. But I was wrong.

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Huh. Why is there a scene with Jack and Carver playing in my head, then? I blame this nasty head cold!🤪

Maybe you are remembering the episode where CBV played the killer on the Mothership?

[GHScorpiosRule]

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe you are remembering the episode where CBV played the killer on the Mothership?

Nope. I believe I am recalling a scene with Foghorn Leghorn and Carver.

As I indicated above, it wasn’t “Rage” or “By Hooker or Crook.”

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Nope. I believe I am recalling a scene with Foghorn Leghorn and Carver.

As I indicated above, it wasn’t “Rage” or “By Hooker or Crook.”

You might be recalling the 2 scenes from In The Wee Small Hours where Branch and Carver appeared together and discussed the case. 

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

You might be recalling the 2 scenes from In The Wee Small Hours where Branch and Carver appeared together and discussed the case. 

I love the scene where Branch tears up the warrant signed by Carver and signs a new one himself.

Edited February 2, 2022 by peacheslatour
thanks, Xeliou66!

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I love the scene where Branch tears up the subpoena signed by Carver and signs a new one himself.

I love that scene as well - it was an arrest warrant, not a subpoena, it was when they were prepared to arrest Judge Garrett, and Branch says something like “when you arrest a sitting judge in an election year, the signature of the District Attorney damn well better be on the warrant. Arthur Branch, Esquire. That’ll be worth two points on Election Day”. I love that scene, I know Arthur is kind of polarizing amongst L&O fans but I like him and his colorful personality.

[peacheslatour]

55 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I love that scene as well - it was an arrest warrant, not a subpoena, it was when they were prepared to arrest Judge Garrett, and Branch says something like “when you arrest a sitting judge in an election year, the signature of the District Attorney damn well better be on the warrant. Arthur Branch, Esquire. That’ll be worth two points on Election Day”. I love that scene, I know Arthur is kind of polarizing amongst L&O fans but I like him and his colorful personality.

"it's not enough to do good. You have to be seen doing good."

[Xeliou66]

12 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

"it's not enough to do good. You have to be seen doing good."

Yes that’s how he ended his speech, that was awesome. I loved Arthur’s cameo in that episode.

[WendyCR72]

On 2/2/2022 at 1:33 PM, Xeliou66 said:

You might be recalling the 2 scenes from In The Wee Small Hours where Branch and Carver appeared together and discussed the case. 

Must be it. I love "Wee...", and Carver getting to interact with Branch was pretty great.

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

Must be it. I love "Wee...", and Carver getting to interact with Branch was pretty great.

Indeed it was. If only they had done more crossovers, as we’ve discussed before, CI didn’t crossover enough with the other shows, aside from ME Rodgers being a semi regular on both CI and the Mothership.

And I really wish they had done more legal stuff and used Carver more, Carver was awesome and underused, one reason why In The Wee Small Hours is probably my favorite episode is because we got to see a lot of legal stuff including trial scenes, 1 of only 2 times we saw Carver try a case, the other being The Good Doctor. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Finished off watching Season 6 and the start of 7 (Hey there, Falacci!) on WE last night, and Ross can just miss me with his butthurt feelings and telling Goren he was off the case in "Endgame" because Goren gave some truth telling--that Ross didn't KNOW what Goren thinks, or that he shouldn't be telling him how to feel because Brady was fucking with his head.

I HATE that the show put in that Goren's father could be a serial killer. I pretty much dislike all the family drama they threw in for him. And it's hilarious (to me, anyway) that Frank is the older brother, when Tony Goldwyn looks so much younger than D'Onofrio!

But hey, Hello, Chief Brody! Roy Schieder will always be Chief Martin "You'regonnaneedabiggerboat" Brody to me!

"Renewal" was just a bunch of nonsensical nonsense. What was the point of  Holly/Kathleen? To show us Mike Logan still had his famous temper? It took away from the main plot of the serial killer. We didn't get to see her interrogated, or her breaking down and confessing WHY she started killing. Only two good things about this, and that was finally seeing Mike mention Lennie, and seeing Eames, even if she was in only three scenes. And that the fuck, show? Not showing Kathryn in the opening credits, but in the guest credits as if she was a character from another show?

Another thing I liked was seeing Kellie Williams and Chris Noth in scenes again, since the last time we saw her was on the Mothership in "Sisters of Mercy" in season two, I think it was.

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but Goren was looking rough as season seven opened. And as good as "Amends" is ( I smiled and laughed when Goren told the evidence cop that he was "the whack job" along with the tics because that was one of the scenes USA used when promoting the show when it was on air and in syndication), I hate the trope that cops refuse to believe that they put away the wrong cop killer--it's as if they don't want the real killer--just someone, anyone put away. And FUCK Quinn's partner. He'd rather put away an innocent man because he doesn't want to lose his job because he can no longer DO his job. It's his own damn fault he's being put on medical and then early retirement. If he hadn't LIED, then he could have kept it all a secret still.

Falacci is just such a breath of fresh air. You can see that Mike (or is it Noth?) is more engaged in their scenes. Wheeler is just so BLAND, that Mike/Noth responds in kind.

Loved his line in "Loneleyville" to Ross to let him (Mike) be the "diplomatic one" for once.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Season 7 continued...

I forgot to add: "Smile" is one of my favorite episodes, despite my loathing for Amy Acker.

I don't know whose WHACKED out idea it was to write the lines in, but (and I think I mentioned it before) I absolutely hate Eames' final line of "it's too late" as to whether she believes being partnered with Goren would adversely affect any promotions.

It's in the delivery and it makes it sound like being his partner is a death knell for any promotion. I love Eames, but I hated that scene. It smacked of, okay, yeah, disloyalty. As if Acker's crazy shouting had any credence, or that there was any parallel to their partnership to that of Lizard and that moron Marty at the local FDA office.

And irony of ironies, she made it to Lieutenant. Maybe that was Green's way to rectify it, but for me it just had me side eyeing. Because despite EVERYTHING that was going on his life, or even in "Amends", Goren has ALWAYS had Eames' back and he wasn't being a jerk when he told her that they had to investigate to find out if Delgado really did kill Joe. Was Deakins the ONLY one who completely had Goren's back?

And why doesn't Ross just keep his ass parked in his seat at the precinct? I just rolled my eyes in "Lonelyville" seeing him walk out on the streets with Mike and Falacci, to find out the status of the investigation.

Oooh! "Courtship" is on today. I love that episode for Falacci's line to some other detective about them having to look at her (Falacci) when she's asking a question and not at Mike. Because Mike is her partner and has her (Falacci’s) back.

And Mike's chuckling later when Ross rails at her.

"Depths" is just so incredibly...stupid?

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I don't know whose WHACKED out idea it was to write the lines in, but (and I think I mentioned it before) I absolutely hate Eames' final line of "it's too late" as to whether she believes being partnered with Goren would adversely affect any promotions.

It hit me hard too. Because it felt like a rare moment of reality that you normally don't see in cop buddy shows, It would have been too easy for Eames to gloss over it with some male ego soothing platitudes. Instead she told him the cold, hard truth. It wasn't disloyal because that kind of thing wasn't that important to her. Her words to Goren when he left for a while "You will always be the best" were also the truth. Eames, for any faults she may have had, was honest to the core.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It hit me hard too. Because it felt like a rare moment of reality that you normally don't see in cop buddy shows, It would have been too easy for Eames to gloss over it with some male ego soothing platitudes. Instead she told him the cold, hard truth. It wasn't disloyal because that kind of thing wasn't that important to her. Her words to Goren when he left for a while "You will always be the best" were also the truth. Eames, for any faults she may have had, was honest to the core.

Right, but Goren wasn’t a “problematic” cop until after Deakins left, and that ass Ross just spouted bullshit about how Goren better not expect him to “cover” for him. Goren wasn’t a screw up that Eames had to deal with.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Right, but Goren wasn’t a “problematic” cop until after Deakins left, and that ass Ross just spouted bullshit about how Goren better not expect him to “cover” for him. Goren wasn’t a screw up that Eames had to deal with.

Then why did she put in for a transfer shortly after she was partnered with him?

[WendyCR72]

On 2/4/2022 at 9:35 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but Goren was looking rough as season seven opened.

That, I think, was a little from column A (real life, maybe?) and a little from column B (VDO is known to be a "method actor", so he probably altered his appearance to a degree with the loss of Bobby's mother to cancer (and later, Frank, to murder) and maybe wanted to show Bobby letting himself go.)

23 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I don't know whose WHACKED out idea it was to write the lines in, but (and I think I mentioned it before) I absolutely hate Eames' final line of "it's too late" as to whether she believes being partnered with Goren would adversely affect any promotions.

I fucking hate that scene and have made no secret about it. I just think it was Warren Leight wanting draaaaaaaama and just ignore it. And since, in S9, Eames herself chose Goren over a promotion, I think she ultimately did have his back.

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Then why did she put in for a transfer shortly after she was partnered with him?

It had nothing to do with Goren being a screwup or incompetent. She wasn’t used to how he investigated crimes/his style. Which she wasn’t used to, or how other cops worked. 

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Then why did she put in for a transfer shortly after she was partnered with him?

Just as she said: Goren was not "conventional" and was an "acquired taste". Being from a family of cops herself, Alex was probably used to the more conventional types and the transfer request was knee jerk. But once she came to respect Bobby as a person, she withdrew that request.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Watched "Offense" and this was DEFINITELY an episode that needed that Order side!

My eyes 🙄🙄 so hard at Fucking ROSS talking to the Bronx A.D.A. about letting Major Case detectives have a look at the files he had. It should have been Jack or Foghorn Leghorn having those conversations.

And since Traci decided she wasn't going to testify, I don't see why she couldn't have told Grace (Tim's mom) that. It would have prevented her getting killed. But then we wouldn't have an episode. I wish the cops had also arrested Mrs. Hoyes, since if not for her call and telling Grace what would happen, Grace wouldn't have gone running to Traci and end up killing her.

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And since Traci decided she wasn't going to testify, I don't see why she couldn't have told Grace (Tim's mom) that. It would have prevented her getting killed. But then we wouldn't have an episode. I wish the cops had also arrested Mrs. Hoyes, since if not for her call and telling Grace what would happen, Grace wouldn't have gone running to Traci and end up killing her.

Grace didn’t give her a chance. Her mindset was kill first and ask questions later. And I don’t feel sorry for her at all. You don’t kill a witness even if your kid was being unjustly railroaded.

Yeah, I wish that Mrs. Hoyes got arrested too. Unfortunately it doesn’t look like she could be charged with anything on paper.