Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[peacheslatour]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:05 AM, Dirtybubble said:

If I remember correctly his brother was part time homeless.  I think his issue was he had a gambling and drug problem that left him homeless at times.  He was up and then he was down--rollercoaster type of thing.

I just remember Bobby giving him his coat and then a dead dude showed up in the morgue and Bobby went to identify him and it turned out his brother had sold the coat.

Edited November 12, 2020 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

On 11/8/2020 at 11:38 AM, peacheslatour said:

I just remember Bobby giving him his coat and than a dead dude showed up in the morgue and Bobby went to identify him and it turned out his brother had sold the coat.

Yeah. But don't forget, when Nicole offed Frank, he was living in a rundown apartment building. So while he was briefly clean (as he was at the beginning of "Frame"), he must have found the place.

[Xeliou66]

I watched Boots on the Ground from season 10 today, good episode, it was a complex plot but it was pretty understandable what happened in the end, the one thing that I wasn’t quite sure of was why exactly Rebecca killed Matt, I mean I know Terrance asked her to, but what exactly was her motive in going along with it? I know she was afraid for her family because Terrance told her her cousin in Israel had been killed, which Terrance had actually ordered himself, but did she think Matt was somehow responsible for putting her family in danger? Perhaps because of the files he had accessed? That part was a bit confusing to me, she said she killed Matt for her family, but why exactly did she see Matt as a danger to her family? 

[peacheslatour]

n/m

Edited November 17, 2020 by peacheslatour

[Broderbits]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

That part was a bit confusing to me, she said she killed Matt for her family, but why exactly did she see Matt as a danger to her family? 

Because the Boots on the Ground guy threatened to kill more of her family if she didn't. Since he'd already had a 12 year old child murdered in an "accident", she believed him.

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, Broderbits said:

Because the Boots on the Ground guy threatened to kill more of her family if she didn't. Since he'd already had a 12 year old child murdered in an "accident", she believed him.

Okay - so Rebecca knew that Terrance was responsible for her cousin’s death? That makes sense, although it makes me question why she didn’t just kill Terrance instead.

[Broderbits]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Okay - so Rebecca knew that Terrance was responsible for her cousin’s death? That makes sense, although it makes me question why she didn’t just kill Terrance instead.

Letting her know he was responsible made the threat real. Why didn't she opt for killing Terrance? He was the head of a security company, surely well-protected and never alone; she probably wouldn't have wanted to put any innocent bystanders in danger either.

[WendyCR72]

On 11/17/2020 at 3:22 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I watched Boots on the Ground from season 10 today, good episode, it was a complex plot but it was pretty understandable what happened in the end, the one thing that I wasn’t quite sure of was why exactly Rebecca killed Matt, I mean I know Terrance asked her to, but what exactly was her motive in going along with it? I know she was afraid for her family because Terrance told her her cousin in Israel had been killed, which Terrance had actually ordered himself, but did she think Matt was somehow responsible for putting her family in danger? Perhaps because of the files he had accessed? That part was a bit confusing to me, she said she killed Matt for her family, but why exactly did she see Matt as a danger to her family? 

It was because of her family.

Remember, Goren mentioned that her 12-year-old cousin had been killed by a hit and run - once Terrence Brooks had orchestrated. Likely as a warning to Rebecca to do Terrence's dirty work - or else. Probably more of her family being harmed. As Rebecca tearfully told Goren, it was Matt or her family.

Terrence was one of the most cold-blooded perps in the entire series, to me. If anything, I thought Naomi's reasoning of indirectly helping was weak sauce. She thought Ian/Matt was cheating on her as her dead hubby did. Big whoop. So dump him, don't KILL him. (And he wasn't even cheating; Naomi fell for Terrence's schemes, when he ordered that extra nightie to be delivered to Rebecca. That's the worst of it. I did like Goren sparring with Ian/Matt's mother in her jail cell, though.)

[Xeliou66]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

It was because of her family.

Remember, Goren mentioned that her 12-year-old cousin had been killed by a hit and run - once Terrence Brooks had orchestrated. Likely as a warning to Rebecca to do Terrence's dirty work - or else. Probably more of her family being harmed. As Rebecca tearfully told Goren, it was Matt or her family.

Terrence was one of the most cold-blooded perps in the entire series, to me. If anything, I thought Naomi's reasoning of indirectly helping was weak sauce. She thought Ian/Matt was cheating on her as her dead hubby did. Big whoop. So dump him, don't KILL him. (And he wasn't even cheating; Naomi fell for Terrence's schemes, when he ordered that extra nightie to be delivered to Rebecca. That's the worst of it. I did like Goren sparring with Ian/Matt's mother in her jail cell, though.)

Terrance was pure evil I agree. Naomi was pathetic as well. I like the episode a lot, it was intriguing and suspenseful and ended with each of the suspects being guilty of something and going to jail, it was a plot that was complex but not too complex to follow, like some CI plots were. 

[WendyCR72]

6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Terrance was pure evil I agree. Naomi was pathetic as well. I like the episode a lot, it was intriguing and suspenseful and ended with each of the suspects being guilty of something and going to jail, it was a plot that was complex but not too complex to follow, like some CI plots were. 

I do like that Goren's military past was brought up even in passing. Terrence mockingly mentioned Goren being part of CID, intelligence. Seems like ol' Terrence should have taken that bit to heart. He played it cool, but once Goren shoved out that cart with the useless files, Brooks should have known his ass was grass.

But I guess his arrogance and evil overtook his common sense.

(Goren mockingly saluting him as Terrence was being cuffed was a nice touch, to me.)

[Xeliou66]

8 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I do like that Goren's military past was brought up even in passing. Terrence mockingly mentioned Goren being part of CID, intelligence. Seems like ol' Terrence should have taken that bit to heart. He played it cool, but once Goren shoved out that cart with the useless files, Brooks should have known his ass was grass.

But I guess his arrogance and evil overtook his common sense.

(Goren mockingly saluting him as Terrence was being cuffed was a nice touch, to me.)

I liked Goren’s mock salute as well. 

I noticed Captain Hannah had a large role in the episode, I really liked him as captain, even if it was a bit odd seeing that actor play a good guy, he was a good captain, something which CI had been missing since Deakins retired, asswipe Ross was a terrible boss and Zoe Callas in season 9 added absolutely nothing. Hannah brought personality to the role but wasn’t a dick like Ross, and I liked how he knew Goren for a while, enough to be on a first name basis with him. 

I really liked the visuals in Boots on the Ground, it was very colorful and had some really nice visuals. 

 

[WendyCR72]

On 11/19/2020 at 10:15 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I liked Goren’s mock salute as well. 

I noticed Captain Hannah had a large role in the episode, I really liked him as captain, even if it was a bit odd seeing that actor play a good guy, he was a good captain, something which CI had been missing since Deakins retired, asswipe Ross was a terrible boss and Zoe Callas in season 9 added absolutely nothing. Hannah brought personality to the role but wasn’t a dick like Ross, and I liked how he knew Goren for a while, enough to be on a first name basis with him. 

I really liked the visuals in Boots on the Ground, it was very colorful and had some really nice visuals. 

 

I admit, when it was announced that Jay O. Sanders was going to play the final CI captain, I was perplexed, since he was so memorable as Harry Rowan in the S2 premiere, "Dead" (yes, 8 seasons before, but he really made a mark there, IMO!), not to mention how chilling he was in "Tabula Rasa" from the Mothership.

But, as you said, he did manage to play a good guy just as well without being boring. And the added history with Goren - even if not used to its full potential - added a little something different there. Including how that history helped him in dealing with Bobby, who could get an attitude with the best of them. I bought that friendship and history.

I tend to think it was Joe Hannah who got Goren and Eames reinstated at Major Case, though that was never addressed. (And should have been!)

[zoey1996]

I’m watching on Peacock, watching the episodes in order, one every few days.  A few days ago in season 2, I watched the first one with Nicole Wallace, and remembered how tedious the NW episodes were.  Intriguing at first, they did not improve over time.

[Xeliou66]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I admit, when it was announced that Jay O. Sanders was going to play the final CI captain, I was perplexed, since he was so memorable as Harry Rowan in the S2 premiere, "Dead" (yes, 8 seasons before, but he really made a mark there, IMO!), not to mention how chilling he was in "Tabula Rasa" from the Mothership.

But, as you said, he did manage to play a good guy just as well without being boring. And the added history with Goren - even if not used to its full potential - added a little something different there. Including how that history helped him in dealing with Bobby, who could get an attitude with the best of them. I bought that friendship and history.

I tend to think it was Joe Hannah who got Goren and Eames reinstated at Major Case, though that was never addressed. (And should have been!)

I definitely agree that it was Hannah who got Goren and Eames back, I thought it was hinted at in the first couple of episodes of season 10 that Hannah had convinced Goren to come back and pulled strings to make it happen, but I agree it should’ve been made explicit how Goren and Eames got back to Major Case. 

1 hour ago, zoey1996 said:

I’m watching on Peacock, watching the episodes in order, one every few days.  A few days ago in season 2, I watched the first one with Nicole Wallace, and remembered how tedious the NW episodes were.  Intriguing at first, they did not improve over time.

I’ve made my hate for the Nicole episodes well known, that storyline just got worse and worse as it went on, it was completely ridiculous how Nicole kept managing to escape, and it became very soapy as well. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

I’m watching on Peacock, watching the episodes in order, one every few days.  A few days ago in season 2, I watched the first one with Nicole Wallace, and remembered how tedious the NW episodes were.  Intriguing at first, they did not improve over time.

As I said before, I called the escalating ridiculousness of Nicole constantly escaping justice a matter of the law of diminishing returns until it was almost a cartoon. I wasn't at all sorry she was finally killed; I just wish that Goren and/or Eames were the people to do it!

[Xeliou66]

On 11/21/2020 at 11:51 PM, WendyCR72 said:

As I said before, I called the escalating ridiculousness of Nicole constantly escaping justice a matter of the law of diminishing returns until it was almost a cartoon. I wasn't at all sorry she was finally killed; I just wish that Goren and/or Eames were the people to do it!

And I’ve said it before as well that it was very unsatisfactory how Nicole was offed. While I was thrilled she died, it was unsatisfying to see her die offscreen at the hands of another villain. 

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

And I’ve said it before as well that it was very unsatisfactory how Nicole was offed. While I was thrilled she died, it was unsatisfying to see her die offscreen at the hands of another villain. 

Yeah, she needed a real comeuppance after they built her up to be this great "nemesis".

[WendyCR72]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:26 PM, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, she needed a real comeuppance after they built her up to be this great "nemesis".

Yep.

To be fair, though, both offshoots from the Mothership had issues with the baddies overstaying their welcomes.

Criminal Intent had Nicole.

Special Victims Unit had William Lewis.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Special Victims Unit had William Lewis.

Ugh. I hated William Lewis, which I guess is a testament to Pablo's acting abilities. *shrug* At least he went out with a...dare I say it?  Bang.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Ugh. I hated William Lewis, which I guess is a testament to Pablo's acting abilities. *shrug* At least he went out with a...dare I say it?  Bang.

And Pablo Schrieber was on CI in "The Unblinking Eye" in S4 as the perp's duped pal, Ed (with the Matt Damon voice cameo in Ed's audition video! Guessing Damon did it since he had one of his first uncredited roles in Mystic Pizza, which VDO was also in!), and as the murderous author, TJ Hawkins in "Self-Made" in S7!

[Xeliou66]

Lewis wasn’t half as irritating as Nicole, although I agree they went overboard with his storyline. Lewis was at least somewhat compelling at first, Nicole sucked, I didn’t even find her very compelling, and the way she escaped justice over and over was a joke. And then when she was finally bumped off, it was offscreen at the hands of another villain, extremely unsatisfying. 

[WendyCR72]

I could SORT OF understand why Goren may have become fixated on Nicole at the end. She did kill his only brother, after all. (Even with Frank's many issues, he was family to Bobby.) Which made Nicole's ending even more unsatisfying.

Bobby should have been the one to end Nicole.

[Jaded]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:54 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Yep.

To be fair, though, both offshoots from the Mothership had issues with the baddies overstaying their welcomes.

Criminal Intent had Nicole.

Special Victims Unit had William Lewis.

Each of those baddies made me pull back on how often I watched the shows they appeared on...

Edited November 26, 2020 by Jaded

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, Jaded said:

Each of those baddies made me pull back on how often I watched the shows they appeared on...

Same.

[WendyCR72]

So, I was watching "Death Roe" from S4 on Peacock last night, and one scene that always seemed to contradict itself was when Goren/Eames visit the OB/GYN doctor, who says in one breath that he can't discuss Beatrice's health (proper HIPAA response), he then admits to calling her psycho chef daddy, "Grandpa"...which basically connects to said records.

I get G/E needed an opening to discover that Beatrice was molested by her POS father, but that was a sloppy way to accomplish it!

I did like Bobby playing with the...steam thing....in Tommy's restaurant kitchen, and yelling, "Steamy!"

[Xeliou66]

On 11/30/2020 at 8:29 PM, WendyCR72 said:

So, I was watching "Death Roe" from S4 on Peacock last night, and one scene that always seemed to contradict itself was when Goren/Eames visit the OB/GYN doctor, who says in one breath that he can't discuss Beatrice's health (proper HIPAA response), he then admits to calling her psycho chef daddy, "Grandpa"...which basically connects to said records.

I get G/E needed an opening to discover that Beatrice was molested by her POS father, but that was a sloppy way to accomplish it!

I did like Bobby playing with the...steam thing....in Tommy's restaurant kitchen, and yelling, "Steamy!"

Yeah that was somewhat weird but I bought that the doctor would make that comment to Tommy, it seems like he was friends with Tommy. 

I love the episode, there’s a lot to dissect from it - like I’ve said before, Tommy was one of the most evil perps in the show’s history, he was a total sociopath who brutally murdered 2 people all to cover up the fact he was raping his daughter. New York didn’t have the death penalty at the time of that episode I believe, but if anyone deserves the needle it’s Tommy. What an epic piece of human waste he was. 

I’ve always been puzzled about Duke and his wife, as I’ve said before, why didn’t Duke’s wife say anything about Tommy assaulting her, especially since her husband still worked with Tommy and Beatrice was being abused by Tommy. If she had spoken up, perhaps  none of this would’ve happened. Both Duke and the wife seemed decent, but Duke completely trusted Tommy and his wife never said anything about the assault. 

I also loved Goren’s act in the kitchen to rattle Tommy, that was awesome!! 

 

[WendyCR72]

On 12/2/2020 at 2:05 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I’ve always been puzzled about Duke and his wife, as I’ve said before, why didn’t Duke’s wife say anything about Tommy assaulting her, especially since her husband still worked with Tommy and Beatrice was being abused by Tommy. If she had spoken up, perhaps  none of this would’ve happened. Both Duke and the wife seemed decent, but Duke completely trusted Tommy and his wife never said anything about the assault. 

Sad to say, but maybe the wife was afraid for two possible reasons:

• That Duke would believe Tommy over her (as Duke did seem woefully naive; I could see Tommy telling him it was some sort of joke and his wife was overreacting)...
• Or maybe she was so afraid to fill Duke in as maybe he would be out for blood and go after Tommy?

[peacheslatour]

8 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Sad to say, but maybe the wife was afraid for two possible reasons:

• That Duke would believe Tommy over her (as Duke did seem woefully naive; I could see Tommy telling him it was some sort of joke and his wife was overreacting)...
• Or maybe she was so afraid to fill Duke in as maybe he would be out for blood and go after Tommy?

Or 3. He would blame her for leading him on. "What were you wearing? You must have done something to make him think you wanted it."

[Sigmagirl]

Have I posted this before? In "F.P.S.," arguably the worst episode, the ousted video game designer says that the company charter says that anybody could be voted out at any time and once you’re out you lose all your shares. 
What kind of lawyer would draft a contract like that? How is that enforceable? Really?

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Sigmagirl said:

Have I posted this before? In "F.P.S.," arguably the worst episode, the ousted video game designer says that the company charter says that anybody could be voted out at any time and once you’re out you lose all your shares. 
What kind of lawyer would draft a contract like that? How is that enforceable? Really?

It's ridiculous.

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:Sad to say, but maybe the wife was afraid for two possible reasons:

• That Duke would believe Tommy over her (as Duke did seem woefully naive; I could see Tommy telling him it was some sort of joke and his wife was overreacting)...
• Or maybe she was so afraid to fill Duke in as maybe he would be out for blood and go after Tommy?

 

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Or 3. He would blame her for leading him on. "What were you wearing? You must have done something to make him think you wanted it."

That’s why I was just unsure of what to make of Duke and his wife. They both seemed decent, but Duke apparently had no idea about how evil Tommy was and his wife for some reason never told anyone about Tommy assaulting her, and apparently Duke’s wife never interacted with Tommy after the assault, wouldn’t Duke find it odd that his wife would no longer come to his workplace or associate with Tommy? It just struck me as odd, and I’m unsure if Duke and his wife were sympathetic figures or not. 

1 hour ago, Sigmagirl said:

Have I posted this before? In "F.P.S.," arguably the worst episode, the ousted video game designer says that the company charter says that anybody could be voted out at any time and once you’re out you lose all your shares. 
What kind of lawyer would draft a contract like that? How is that enforceable? Really?

FPS was a trainwreck of an episode, I’ve never even thought about that part of it, which doesn’t make much sense. I’ve always been so focused on how the investigation progressed at the start of the episode, I honestly have no idea how they got from place to place in their investigation. Plus I’ve never been able to figure out if the killer was gay and in love with his best friend or if he just had a weird focus on the guy. 

There’s definitely a good case to be made for FPS being the worst episode of the first 5 seasons. 

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Have I posted this before? In "F.P.S.," arguably the worst episode, the ousted video game designer says that the company charter says that anybody could be voted out at any time and once you’re out you lose all your shares. 
What kind of lawyer would draft a contract like that? How is that enforceable? Really?

TR Knight did pretty well in playing a psycho in this episode, though. Especially since I thought his character on Grey's Anatomy was sort of weak/bland. (Don't kill me!)

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Plus I’ve never been able to figure out if the killer was gay and in love with his best friend or if he just had a weird focus on the guy. 

Yeah, the homo-eroticism was pretty blatant, but I think maybe the conclusion was left up to us? Also, I did notice that the "abandonment" that the perp felt where his working partner was concerned directly sort of contrasted with Goren/Eames, and you notice Goren mentioned explicitly how the loss of a partner affects people. (And would explain the extra level of joy once he got the birth announcement at the end, maybe, knowing Eames would soon be back?)

I agree the episode itself was a mess, but some of the above parallels and symbolism was pretty direct.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, the homo-eroticism was pretty blatant, but I think maybe the conclusion was left up to us? Also, I did notice that the "abandonment" that the perp felt where his working partner was concerned directly sort of contrasted with Goren/Eames, and you notice Goren mentioned explicitly how the loss of a partner affects people. (And would explain the extra level of joy once he got the birth announcement at the end, maybe, knowing Eames would soon be back?)

I agree the episode itself was a mess, but some of the above parallels and symbolism was pretty direct.

Yeah I’ve always felt that the killer was gay and in love with his friend, but they didn’t confirm it. And yes the symbolism about missing a partner was heavy handed, too heavy handed IMO. 

But that episode was a total fucking trainwreck, I still don’t understand what happened at the start, how they got from place to place in their investigation, and generally what the hell was going on. The episode was way too convoluted and made no sense. I did like Deakins line about the killer owing him a bottle of aspirin, he wasn’t the only one who needed it, I’m sure most viewers needed an aspirin after watching that jumbled mess!! Like I say, you could make a strong case for it being the worst episode of the first 5 seasons, even worse than the Nicole episodes. 

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I’ve always felt that the killer was gay and in love with his friend, but they didn’t confirm it. And yes the symbolism about missing a partner was heavy handed, too heavy handed IMO. 

But that episode was a total fucking trainwreck, I still don’t understand what happened at the start, how they got from place to place in their investigation, and generally what the hell was going on. The episode was way too convoluted and made no sense. I did like Deakins line about the killer owing him a bottle of aspirin, he wasn’t the only one who needed it, I’m sure most viewers needed an aspirin after watching that jumbled mess!! Like I say, you could make a strong case for it being the worst episode of the first 5 seasons, even worse than the Nicole episodes. 

I'm no fan of it. But it seems like any given show has filler. And I think this one definitely qualified! I would say maybe just an episode to highlight the whole G/E partner dynamic, but it would have been better served in a more interesting episode. I actually wish Eames was around for "Mad Hops", when Goren faced off with his old high school coach. While Goren admitting to Bishop the state of his relationship with his dad (or lack thereof), I think it lost its punch without Eames being the one he confided in. Shrug.

[Xeliou66]

6 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'm no fan of it. But it seems like any given show has filler. And I think this one definitely qualified! I would say maybe just an episode to highlight the whole G/E partner dynamic, but it would have been better served in a more interesting episode. I actually wish Eames was around for "Mad Hops", when Goren faced off with his old high school coach. While Goren admitting to Bishop the state of his relationship with his dad (or lack thereof), I think it lost its punch without Eames being the one he confided in. Shrug.

The killer coach in Mad Hops wasn’t Goren’s old coach, he didn’t even know Goren or that Goren had played basketball. I liked Mad Hops though, although it would’ve naturally been better with Eames than Bishop. 

CI had a remarkable lack of filler episodes in its first 5 seasons IMO, I liked almost every episode. That’s why I think FPS is a strong contender for the worst episode of the first 5 years of CI, it’s one of the few episodes, besides the Nicole episodes, that I really don’t care for.

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

The killer coach in Mad Hops wasn’t Goren’s old coach, he didn’t even know Goren or that Goren had played basketball. I liked Mad Hops though, although it would’ve naturally been better with Eames than Bishop. 

Hmm. I always thought he was, but maybe because of this exchange that sort of - now that I read it - was more like Dean Holliday in "Vanishing Act", i.e. just reading someone:

(From IMDB. You think I'd remember word-for-word? LOL!)

Detective Robert Goren: I can be direct. You're divorced. You've got no kids. And basketball is pretty much it for you, Coach. You haven't won a championship in the past seven years. You might be hungry for a big win to cap your career. Hungry enough for you to get into business with Curtis Romney?

Coach Perry Powell: I can be direct, too. I see a problem with authority figures. You defy them. You disrespect them. The truth is, you're intimidated by them. It's the mark of a boy with an indifferent father. His absence took the joy out of playing basketball.

The latter lines, I thought Powell knew Goren and/or his dad, but the Holliday take is probably more accurate. My bad!

[Xeliou66]

49 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hmm. I always thought he was, but maybe because of this exchange that sort of - now that I read it - was more like Dean Holliday in "Vanishing Act", i.e. just reading someone:

(From IMDB. You think I'd remember word-for-word? LOL!)

Detective Robert Goren: I can be direct. You're divorced. You've got no kids. And basketball is pretty much it for you, Coach. You haven't won a championship in the past seven years. You might be hungry for a big win to cap your career. Hungry enough for you to get into business with Curtis Romney?

Coach Perry Powell: I can be direct, too. I see a problem with authority figures. You defy them. You disrespect them. The truth is, you're intimidated by them. It's the mark of a boy with an indifferent father. His absence took the joy out of playing basketball.

The latter lines, I thought Powell knew Goren and/or his dad, but the Holliday take is probably more accurate. My bad!

Yeah I’m pretty sure based on various dialogue from the episode that Powell didn’t know Goren or his dad and Goren didn’t know Powell before the case. 

[peacheslatour]

12 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I’ve always felt that the killer was gay and in love with his friend, but they didn’t confirm it. And yes the symbolism about missing a partner was heavy handed, too heavy handed IMO. 

But that episode was a total fucking trainwreck, I still don’t understand what happened at the start, how they got from place to place in their investigation, and generally what the hell was going on. The episode was way too convoluted and made no sense. I did like Deakins line about the killer owing him a bottle of aspirin, he wasn’t the only one who needed it, I’m sure most viewers needed an aspirin after watching that jumbled mess!! Like I say, you could make a strong case for it being the worst episode of the first 5 seasons, even worse than the Nicole episodes. 

I'm sorry but nothing is worse than the Nicole episodes. 

Quote

CI had a remarkable lack of filler episodes in its first 5 seasons IMO, I liked almost every episode.

It's also one of the reasons VDO ended up collapsing from exhaustion. He was in practically every scene, had to memorize pages and pages of dialog and they worked him like a dog. To me, the show is never as interesting when he's not on the screen.

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It's also one of the reasons VDO ended up collapsing from exhaustion. He was in practically every scene, had to memorize pages and pages of dialog and they worked him like a dog. To me, the show is never as interesting when he's not on the screen.

And that's why Mike Logan returned. I'm guessing his guest role in "Stress Position" in S4 was to ascertain if the character would work on CI (as, let's face it, even Dick Wolf said if the Original L&O show was Campbell's Soup, CI was bouillabaisse!) and, since he did, the idea to alternate was maybe done to give VDO a break.

Memorizing so much dialogue had to be hard enough. But I also thought I read that VDO is dyslexic. If so, that made it even more of a challenge, I bet. (But he did it, so good for him!)

[Sigmagirl]

Back to "F.P.S." (sorry), one of the main "clues" 🙄 is that T.R. programs his characters to do a hop and skip or some nonsense, and Goren sees the little boy playing a game T.R. designed. His sister explained that the boy has a learning disability and that T.R. designed a game to help him. 
pardon my ignorance and insensitivity as I don’t have a learning disability or a kid with one, but ISTM that the kid was playing a game in which a space bunny shoots at things. What am I missing? This is an educational game? 

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, Sigmagirl said:

Back to "F.P.S." (sorry), one of the main "clues" 🙄 is that T.R. programs his characters to do a hop and skip or some nonsense, and Goren sees the little boy playing a game T.R. designed. His sister explained that the boy has a learning disability and that T.R. designed a game to help him. 
pardon my ignorance and insensitivity as I don’t have a learning disability or a kid with one, but ISTM that the kid was playing a game in which a space bunny shoots at things. What am I missing? This is an educational game? 

I’ve never thought about that at all. That episode is such a jumbled mess it’s hard to focus on anything, I always just try to figure out how they got from point to point in their investigation, it makes no sense and is overly convoluted. Like I say, arguably the worst episode of seasons 1-5.

[Sigmagirl]

Moving on, then: "In the Dark." You know, Butch Perkins really is the ideal partner. Hardworking, handy, caring, going above and beyond to take care of Rose’s drug-addict daughter even though he’s never met her. If only he didn’t go out and kill people to do it.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Sigmagirl said:

Moving on, then: "In the Dark." You know, Butch Perkins really is the ideal partner. Hardworking, handy, caring, going above and beyond to take care of Rose’s drug-addict daughter even though he’s never met her. If only he didn’t go out and kill people to do it.

What I don't get is, since there is no daughter, where was the money going?

Edited December 9, 2020 by peacheslatour

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

What I don't get is, since there is no daughter, where was the money going?

Maybe on the sweet pickles for Rose's tuna.  😛

But that episode was dark, pardon the pun. The whole plot with the calcified/stone baby, etc. Sadder still when you read some of the real-life cases of such! Add in Rose's dementia and her murdering boyfriend, and this was not a laugh a minute.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe on the sweet pickles for Rose's tuna.  😛

But that episode was dark, pardon the pun. The whole plot with the calcified/stone baby, etc. Sadder still when you read some of the real-life cases of such! Add in Rose's dementia and her murdering boyfriend, and this was not a laugh a minute.

Yep, Season 4 got really dark. NPH resorting to canabalism off of loneliness? Yikes.

[Xeliou66]

As I’ve said before - season 4 took a turn into the really dark, weird and creepy. In the Dark was super creepy, Want was as well, so was The Posthumous Collection, the aforementioned Death Roe was really dark and unsettling as well, Magnificat was very dark, Ex Stasis was just weird, Beast was rather disturbing, No Exit was really dark. By far the darkest season of CI, it wasn’t bad though, I really like most season 4 episodes, but it certainly had a lot of weird and creepy stuff in it.

[WendyCR72]

On 12/9/2020 at 7:39 PM, peacheslatour said:

Yep, Season 4 got really dark. NPH resorting to canabalism off of loneliness? Yikes.

Not cannibalism, that was Jeffrey Dahmer - whom NPH's character was based upon. But NPH's creepy John poured hot water on to women's brains to lobotomize them so they would stay with him. That is one episode I usually skip when it comes on.

On 12/9/2020 at 10:14 PM, Xeliou66 said:

As I’ve said before - season 4 took a turn into the really dark, weird and creepy. In the Dark was super creepy, Want was as well, so was The Posthumous Collection, the aforementioned Death Roe was really dark and unsettling as well, Magnificat was very dark, Ex Stasis was just weird, Beast was rather disturbing, No Exit was really dark. By far the darkest season of CI, it wasn’t bad though, I really like most season 4 episodes, but it certainly had a lot of weird and creepy stuff in it.

When "Collective" - the episode about the vampire junkies with Bobby playing with the toy gun - was the seemingly sole "lighter" episode of Season 4, you know things got dark. 

[Xeliou66]

4 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Not cannibalism, that was Jeffrey Dahmer - whom NPH's character was based upon. But NPH's creepy John poured hot water on to women's brains to lobotomize them so they would stay with him. That is one episode I usually skip when it comes on.

When "Collective" - the episode about the vampire junkies with Bobby playing with the toy gun - was the seemingly sole "lighter" episode of Season 4, you know things got dark. 

Um yeah Tagman the perp in Want did consume part of one of his victims, he was a cannibal. That episode was downright disturbing, chilling and bizarre. 

Collective was weird as well, I forgot about it because it’s not one of my favorites, I just couldn’t get into the whole vampire thing, but Goren playing with the toy gun in the store was downright hilarious, probably the funniest moment on CI ever, and makes the episode worth watching.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Not cannibalism, that was Jeffrey Dahmer - whom NPH's character was based upon. But NPH's creepy John poured hot water on to women's brains to lobotomize them so they would stay with him. That is one episode I usually skip when it comes on.

He cut women's bodies up and kept the parts in his fridge and yes he was consuming them. He was partial to their calf muscles.

Edited December 11, 2020 by peacheslatour