Haven - General Discussion

[Guest]

This topic replaces the old Haven forum which has been vaulted at the location below:  http://forums.previously.tv/forum/460-haven-v/

[BlackberryJam]

So I’ve been rewatching S1 of Haven and it’s great. It’s really great. Emily Rose struggles some, especially in her Trouble Whispering scenes, but the writing is good, the plots are good, the stories are good.

Too bad it turned into such a shitshow in S4.

[BlackberryJam]

Oh. S2 is So good. They do a great job incorporating multiple characters, Evie, Dwight, Chris Brody, using one trouble to counteract another. The Rev was a fantastic villain because you could understand what he wanted, while at the same time realizing he was a total psycho.

The revelation of the Crocker family trouble is great. The history of the town, the people all of it interlocks so well.

The one real sour note is Nathan going full jealous asshole in the finale and attacking Duke.

I was never a Nathan fan, and doing a rewatch, I can see why. His behavior is controlling, possessive and at some points just inexplicable. Lucas Bryant does a good job portraying whatever the script calls for, which is often petulant, unreasonable toddler. The writing really did the Nathan character wrong/

I am cracking up thought at how Eric Balfour’s hair goes from short in the S2 finale only to pick up in the exact same scene in the S3 premiere as long. 

[BlackberryJam]

Nathan is so awful in S3 that I had to make a post over in Loathesome about it. He’s just horrible. The insistence that Duke commits every crime is ridiculous. And when Duke is repelling down the cliff to save a woman, Nathan pulls out his gun and is going to shoot Duke in cold blood. It’s so stupid.

Also the idea that Nathan/Audrey as a love story is ridiculous. He loves her body, no matter the personality inside it, unless for PLOT reasons he doesn’t, like when Audrey is pretending to be Lexie, he doesn’t notice, but Duke does. It’s so so stupid.

Emily Rose is terrible in S4. Just ...awful. She’s really at her best in S2, but that is the best season. 

So Team Duke.

I realize I’m talking to myself here, but it’s cathartic.

[BlackberryJam]

So I don’t think I can rewatch S5. I started it and stopped and went back to S1.

I’m noticing so much more now. They set Nathan up as someone who refused to accept supernatural explanations, a willfully blind Scully to Parker’s Mulder, and they they dropped it. They set up a Nathan/Duke friendship, or at least truce, and dropped it. They set up Lucy’s story and then twisted it all to hell. And the timeline shenanigans with the Colorado Kid were ridiculous. There was no reason to have him in the Haunted House episode and it fucked the timeline all to hell.

Just dropped stories from S1:

Duke’s daughter.

Dave being an avid hunter and Vince being kind of anti-gun.

Eleanor Carr having done the Colorado Kid’s autopsy BUT in S3/4 we find out he was dragged into the Barn to be saved. THEN HOW DID SHE AUTOPSY HIM??? GAHHH.

They so needed a continuity person. And I’m just blaming the writers for the this. There was no need for them to pull that crap other than to make James Cogan Nathan/Sarah’s son. The whole Nathan/Sarah romance was gross, just ...gross. I hated every bit of that the second time around.

Also, in S4, they bring back the girl whose drawings can be used to effect the real life person/object, but do they use her trouble at all to help people? WHY NO. Audrey has no problem using Duke, but it’s never considered that maybe Vickie (troubled artist/turned ME intern) can use her trouble to help.

Jennifer Mason was a total waste of a character. Her purpose seems to have been to give Duke a love interest so Audrey and Nathan could be together, which *barf*. Colin Ferguson’s gleeful portrayal of William just doesn’t fit the tone of the show. I felt like he totally got a different script/director.

And lordy Emily Rose was terrible. Just terrible in all of her Lexie/Sarah/Mara scenes. She was barely believable as Audrey. And I’ll repeat, Tatiana Maslany would have owned the role(s). 

I am going to keep rewatching TV that I’ve enjoyed because my brain just needs that comfort. But S5, that’s going to be a hard No. 

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by BlackberryJam
Typos

[BlackberryJam]

So, after listening to me rant about Haven, an at-risk family member who is doing the full "stay at home" decided to binge watch it. She's part way through Magic Hour Part 1. I'm sharing her impressions/things she's said to me.

In S1 she was totally into Nathan, found him absolutely drop dead gorgeous. Thought Duke was there as just the comedy sidekick. She'd figured out right away that Audrey was Lucy, but she's a big Stephen King fan, so that isn't surprising. She was fully on board the Nathan/Audrey ship.

S2, she loved Evi and was heartbroken when it was revealed that Evi was working for the Rev then died. She loved to hate the Rev and said he was so good in the role that he made her skin crawl. She was totally surprised that the Rev was killed off, and continues to expect him to come back. She hated Chris Brody so much. She has the hots for Dwight. Her tune on Duke has totally changed and she thinks he, and his Trouble, are the key to everything. 

S3, and mind you, she hadn't finished the first part of Magic Hour, Duke and Audrey were in Colorado, but hadn't kissed yet and Nathan hadn't died, when we talked. She asked me why Nathan was so angry all the time and why his eyes look red (wtf?). She thinks someone (maybe Stan at the station) has a Trouble that negatively affects Nathan's mood. (I LOVED this theory.) She was so mad at Audrey for not telling Duke that the plan all along was to have him kill the guy with "the sucker snake mouth."

She hates Jordan. (I had to have a talk with her about the last person who touched Jordan having been the man who raped her and how damaged Jordan is, not because I like Jordan, but because that's important.) She wants Duke, who she has now decided is hot (but not Dwight level hot) to have sex with Audrey. She only kind of likes Claire, but loved the cheerleader outfit. She liked the haunted house episode, with "that guy who was Dany's lover on Game of Thrones."

She is convinced that Duke has to kill Audrey to end the Troubles.

I feel like she is such a precious snowflake, and I wish I were her, enjoying the excitement of watching for the first time and all of the fun theories and speculation. 

[BlackberryJam]

Just continuing this. She's now in S5 and hates it, but will finish. Her comment to me yesterday was, "I just want to slap the shit out of Nathan." I reminded her that she'd loved Nathan and thought he was the hottest thing on two legs. She responded, "That was before he became a dumbass."

At this point, she is just slogging through to get to the end. She's holding on to hope that Dwight doesn't die. She doesn't want Duke to die, but is convinced it's going to happen, and then, "You might have to buy me a new TV because I might throw something at it."

In my re-watch, I noticed how many too-tight unstructured jackets they had ER wear. That was not a good look. 

[BlackberryJam]

So...she has one more episode to go. She called and said, “So Duke’s dead. Is there any reason to even finish this stupid show?” Then I had to hear how it all had so much potential and then turned to crap. As if I didn’t attend that party years ago. She hates Shatner so much. 

Her rage at S5 just reminds me how enraged I was. I loved the show so so much. 

[MarkHB]

I am anxious to hear if she finishes and what she thinks of the ending (although I have a good idea).

I wonder if, when Nathan shot the barn, he actually shot the show.

Edited July 7, 2020 by MarkHB

[BlackberryJam]

She is strangely invested in Agent Howard and wants his back story. Which...okay...sure.

Did I mention she is 78? It’s just damn funny how she is all about the “hot” characters.

[BlackberryJam]

So...she finished it. Her reaction was underwhelmed. She thought it was nice that Dwight got to keep is daughter, and that Duke, who wasn’t able to be with his own daughter, made it happen. She enjoyed Chris Brody getting slapped.

She had nothing to say about the Nathan/Audrey/Paige bits. I mean...nothing. She skipped right over my question to instead talk about Vince and Shatner in the barn. She thought that was nice because Vince had lost his brother.

She asked me for a new show recommendation and I went with Orphan Black. She really just wants Young and the Restless back.

”Watching” the show through her eyes was interesting, especially after my own sort of rewatch. Great show for three seasons followed by total crap. 

My rewatch of S1 showed that they were leaning hard into Audrey/Duke. The two of them get all the romance building scenes. It changes then in S2. S3 almost seems like it’s going for a threesome once Nathan gets over his snit. I wonder what went on in that writer’s room. S4 is like it was written by someone totally new. 

[MarkHB]

11 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

S4 is like it was written by someone totally new. 

It was. The original creators left after S3 IIRC, although the new showrunners who came in had been writers on the show already.

Thanks for the follow up!

Edited July 8, 2020 by MarkHB

[BlackberryJam]

34 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

It was. The original creators left after S3 IIRC, although the new showrunners who came in had been writers on the show already.

Thanks for the follow up!

If anyone does a rewatch, the tonal shift is so clear when you're not waiting weeks/months between episodes. 

I would so be interested in a "After Haven" episode to follow up on the characters.

[TimetoShine]

@BlackberryJam I am here and enjoying your posts!

[Maelstrom]

On 7/7/2020 at 10:40 AM, MarkHB said:

I wonder if, when Nathan shot the barn, he actually shot the show.

Too bad he didn’t just shoot the viewers to put us out of our misery.

BlackberryJam, you’re braver than I could ever be, and it’s interesting to read your impressions after a few years have passed. Despite really liking some aspects of this show (early on, at least) it turned into such a colossal clusterfuck of an insult to brain cells that I don’t think I could ever stand to rewatch. Not even for Eric Balfour’s hotness.

[BlackberryJam]

I would never have done it if not for the pandemic. I found myself wanting to rewatch old shows instead of getting into new ones.

The first 2.5 seasons are so good. It’s just a matter of knowing when to stop...

[LadyMustang65]

My husband and I just got finished watching Haven on Netflix.  We somehow missed it originally.  We really enjoyed the show for the most part.  It's funny, though.  My husband was Nathan/Audrey all the way and was only satisfied with the ending because Audrey came back as Paige, and she and Nathan could be together.  I could never understand why Audrey was into Nathan when she could have had Duke.  Really, Audrey?  My husband made a comment about women "liking the bad boys," and I got mad at him.  Long before Mara pointed out the obvious about Duke, I knew back in Season 1 that he was probably the most decent character on the show and that his persona was largely an act.  And I got so damn tired of everyone blaming Duke for everything.  WTF is wrong with the people in that town that they all act like Duke wanted to give them troubles and wanted to kill them and just totally ignored how often he was the one who stepped in to help, even though they all had memories like goldfish and couldn't remember 10 seconds later that he'd saved the town. Again.  God, even Audrey turned on him for a few seconds at the end before she came to her senses and remembered Duke's the good guy.  Nathan was a selfish prick.  For me any contest there might have been between Nathan and Duke was ended when Duke recognized Audrey's right to make her own decision about going back into the barn while fucking Nathan told her she couldn't go and then shot Howard.  But did anyone blame that moron for what happened after that?  A little lip service, but that was all.  It was still all Duke's fault.  I cried when Duke died but I was glad we got to see one more glimpse of the Duke we'd come to know and love at the very end.

Dwight was way hotter as a viking.  I missed his long hair, but I guess that new short look was befitting being the police chief.  Loved Gloria and especially loved that she knew what a good person Duke was and always stood up for him.  I'm glad they didn't kill her off.  

William Shatner as Croatoan was a let down.  In fact Croatoan itself was a let down.  I don't know.  After all that build up, I wanted Croatoan to be someone like Samuel L. Jackson or something.  Some real scary badass and not some out-of-shape regular-dad-looking person.  It was just weird.  Nothing against William Shatner, but he just didn't do 'evil' well enough for Croatoan to be scary once we could see him.  But it was kind of amusing to see Vince and Dad (did he even have a name that we knew of?) hanging out in the new barn.  

I wonder how much fun it was for the actors to play the switched roles?  I thought Eric Balfour in particular did a great job being Nathan, and Lucas Bryant made a pretty good Duke.  They managed to get most of the mannerisms down right.  Vince and Dave were a bit less successful in their switched roles, but still did a respectable job of it.  

All things considered, we thought it was a pretty enjoyable way to spend several weeks' worth of evenings.  I'm glad we found the show, even though it wasn't perfect.  Reading above that they changed show runners does make the inconsistency between the first few seasons and the last two make sense.

[BlackberryJam]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:07 PM, LadyMustang65 said:

My husband and I just got finished watching Haven on Netflix.  We somehow missed it originally.  We really enjoyed the show for the most part.  It's funny, though.  My husband was Nathan/Audrey all the way and was only satisfied with the ending because Audrey came back as Paige, and she and Nathan could be together.  I could never understand why Audrey was into Nathan when she could have had Duke.  Really, Audrey?  My husband made a comment about women "liking the bad boys," and I got mad at him.  Long before Mara pointed out the obvious about Duke, I knew back in Season 1 that he was probably the most decent character on the show and that his persona was largely an act.  And I got so damn tired of everyone blaming Duke for everything.  WTF is wrong with the people in that town that they all act like Duke wanted to give them troubles and wanted to kill them and just totally ignored how often he was the one who stepped in to help, even though they all had memories like goldfish and couldn't remember 10 seconds later that he'd saved the town. Again.  God, even Audrey turned on him for a few seconds at the end before she came to her senses and remembered Duke's the good guy.  Nathan was a selfish prick.  For me any contest there might have been between Nathan and Duke was ended when Duke recognized Audrey's right to make her own decision about going back into the barn while fucking Nathan told her she couldn't go and then shot Howard.  But did anyone blame that moron for what happened after that?  A little lip service, but that was all.  It was still all Duke's fault.  I cried when Duke died but I was glad we got to see one more glimpse of the Duke we'd come to know and love at the very end.

Dwight was way hotter as a viking.  I missed his long hair, but I guess that new short look was befitting being the police chief.  Loved Gloria and especially loved that she knew what a good person Duke was and always stood up for him.  I'm glad they didn't kill her off.  

William Shatner as Croatoan was a let down.  In fact Croatoan itself was a let down.  I don't know.  After all that build up, I wanted Croatoan to be someone like Samuel L. Jackson or something.  Some real scary badass and not some out-of-shape regular-dad-looking person.  It was just weird.  Nothing against William Shatner, but he just didn't do 'evil' well enough for Croatoan to be scary once we could see him.  But it was kind of amusing to see Vince and Dad (did he even have a name that we knew of?) hanging out in the new barn.  

I wonder how much fun it was for the actors to play the switched roles?  I thought Eric Balfour in particular did a great job being Nathan, and Lucas Bryant made a pretty good Duke.  They managed to get most of the mannerisms down right.  Vince and Dave were a bit less successful in their switched roles, but still did a respectable job of it.  

All things considered, we thought it was a pretty enjoyable way to spend several weeks' worth of evenings.  I'm glad we found the show, even though it wasn't perfect.  Reading above that they changed show runners does make the inconsistency between the first few seasons and the last two make sense.

I cannot like this post enough. Duke was clearly the better human being and everyone acted like he was the evil. Ugh.

[shapeshifter]

I skipped the last half season of this show, but just happened upon this tweet that might be of interest to y'all: 

ETA: I follow @StephenKing on Twitter because of his superb way with words, but here I guess I've misunderstood his intent?
Does "the upcoming CHAPELWAITE, plus HAVEN" not mean there is more Haven "upcoming" because of the comma?

Edited March 19, 2021 by shapeshifter

[MarkHB]

The accurate answer to King's question is because Maine can't put together a film credit program or fund the state film office to save its ass.

[SnarkShark]

On 3/18/2021 at 2:49 PM, shapeshifter said:

I skipped the last half season of this show, but just happened upon this tweet that might be of interest to y'all: 

I just rewatched (the last one, at least).  It reinforced my previously vague memory of being pretty unsatisfied with the show near the end.  

[sharifa70]

I’m re-watching the series and just finished Season 3 ep.2 “Stay” (a man’s Trouble turns a bunch of feral dogs into feral humans) and I have to say it was laughably bad. I’m not looking forward to the upcoming dimensional shifts/time travel/body swapping seasons. 

Count me in the Team Duke crowd. I have nothing against Lucas Bryant, who did fine with what the writers gave him, but Emily Rose and Eric Balfour had chemistry for days, whereas I didn’t get that same sense with Audrey/Nathan.