Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[statsgirl]

Ray also become the Atom, or at least he will soon.

 

I think it depends on what MG meant by "comic book destiny".  If je meant a martial arts expert, saviour of women in peril, and flower shop owner, there's no way she can become the first and the second two are doubtful.

 

But if he meant she dons black leather to become the Black Canary and fights crime as a vigilante, she's already become that.

 

eta:or what apinknightmare posted while I was typing. 

Edited August 28, 2015 by statsgirl

[EmeraldArcher]

Drat it all, you two (apinknightmare and statsgirl)--you've dashed my hopes!  How old is MG's "not reaching the comic book destiny" comment?

 

So, is there any hope that LL will move on to bigger and better things off screen?  She really would make a great reoccurring character, like only coming back for Arrow's annual 2-hour Christmas special or musical episodes.  

 

What's that, you say?  Arrow doesn't have annual Christmas specials or musical episodes?  I knew that, silly!

Edited August 28, 2015 by EmeraldArcher

[BkWurm1]

So, is there any hope that LL will move on to bigger and better things off screen?  She really would make a great reoccurring character, like only coming back for Arrow's annual 2-hour Christmas special or musical episodes.

 

Well, never say never. 

 

I had such high hopes of KC getting a better offer and moving on to bigger things but I didn't hear any buzz about parts or jobs over the summer for her. 

[EmilyBettFan]

From what she's shown on Arrow I can't see anyone hiring her for big parts.

[kismet]

Sorry to bring this back up after so long, but I was on vacation.

 

Anyway, @kismet, I think you make some good points, but I think you've fallen prey to one of the errors I frequently make with this character--you've conflated LL the character with KC the actress.  I think it's an interesting concept that LL might be the character who doesn't reach her comic book destiny, but that can only be based on in-show experiences.  KC's failure to be a convincing LI, second lead, or addict should have no impact on LL's in-show ability to become a fully realized BC.  I think for LL's comic book destiny to be threatened, we'd have to see obstacles in-show preventing her from developing further as BC, such as moving away or a serious injury that permanently sidelines her.

Well, I honestly intentionally try to make it not all about the actor's performance. They have proven that they have no intention of recasting LL. So for all intense purposes, what KC gives us in her performance of LL is what we are going to get. No more, no less, no substitutions. So to some extent some of the blame falls on her if her “destiny” is not met. However, the writers have now been writing for her for over 3 seasons, so they know what who & what they are writing for. So if there is a failure, I think it falls on both or them, but more so on the writers because it’s their job to write the arcs & characters. LL can only work with what she is given. And she hasn't always been given the best from pre-show storyboarding to present day season. And a lot of the BC Comic canon was given to Sara. And they failed to lay groundwork of martial arts training for over 2.5 seasons. In s1&2, all LL could do was shot a shotgun & throw a few punches. Not quite BC level of fighting. I feel that if her character continues to falter (from both a writing & acting perspective) than perhaps they will begin to write in-show reasons & stumbling blocks. The biggest & easiest one would be for her to move away from the show. I would say give up the mask, but we know that is not happening so long as KC is under contract. But it’s sorta like the dog chasing his tail at this point when it comes to LL as BC.

Like people detailed above: MASK + COSTUME + Code/NickNAME = COMIC DESTINY. So by that math, I guess LL has already achieved her destiny. I keep on forgetting that for these writers sometimes they aim for simple arithmetic, while I always want to do Character Calculus.

[AyChihuahua]

Re Guggie's recent comment about lack of chemistry, that's really not KC's fault (or SA's, at least in S1 when he was still trying with LL).  I don't think she's much of an actress, but the writing for her from the pilot on was just a disaster.  Chemistry is what it is, but they did LL zero favors with the terribad writing, and trying to blame LL's failure entirely on KC/the anti-chemistry is really unfair.

[Chaser]

I agree. Neither KC or SA can be blamed for lack of chemistry, it's completely out of their control. The chemistry issue I blame on the casting directors, the CW and the showrunners. It's something that should have been seen in a chemistry test and then addressed with either a recast or a rewrite.

 

I think bad writing can amplify lack of chemistry. What saved some scenes between Oliver and Felicity last season was SA and EBR.  Oliver and Laurel had terrible writing that first season and frankly it hasn't gotten a whole lot better. It's why I find a lot of their interactions awkward. I'm morbidly curious about Oliver and Laurel's interactions in S4. I'm assuming its going be a lot less adversial and more friendly colleages. KC is still hoping for Oliver and Laurel so I'm interested in seeing if she 'methods' that.  

[Carrie Ann]

When they talk about this season being lighter overall, it makes me wish they would give KC the permission/direction to be lighter too. Part of what has made LL so unappealing to me is her humorlessness. Based on the little info we have for S4, I'm guessing we're skipping over most of BC's skill development and the development of her friendships with Dig and Thea (I understand those two were previously friendly, but we didn't see a lot of their friendship), as well as the development of their little three-person crime-fighting team. That's...fine, though it will make it a little less believable or engaging for me, but if that's the case, then please, PLEASE just let Laurel laugh and smile with them. Let her do anything other than act imperious and haughty. People had such a strong reaction to seeing her lighter side with Cisco--I hope that the EPs took notice of that and allow her to be that way with the characters on her actual show. KC can smile! I've seen it! It's possible! And while I'm fairly sure I'll never emotionally invest in her character because that ship has sailed, I would find her a lot more enjoyable and less of a sour note if she acted like she enjoyed herself and other people sometimes.

[BkWurm1]

Let her do anything other than act imperious and haughty.

 

Yes, this.  Please!!!  A hundred times this. 

[Smoaking Reporter]

Agree that Laurel should smile more. It would be a nice change. KC has a beautiful smile. I'm still trying to figure out what role Laurel will play in creating the Legends of tomorrow team ( I think that's what KC said at SDCC). Are they still forming their mini Justice League on Arrow? By now it includes Oliver, Barry, Laurel & Digg. Maybe she takes on a leadership role in this mini JL team & that's how she's allowed to have an influence on the creation of the LOT team. She wasn't on the rooftop with Oliver & Barry in the LOT promo, but she was included in the LOT part of the SDCC Arrow/TheFlash/Legends of Tomorrow trailer. So I'm curious.

[Sakura12]

I'm hoping she's just the one that brings Sara back to life. I don't want to see Because Comics more than I have to on Arrow. 

[kismet]

I honestly want her to go to LoT... I know some fans of that show do not want her there, so I will have to apologize to them. But I think it would be the best place for her character to get a fresh start & flourish if DCTV really wants to keep the BC brand going. ARROW just doesn't feel like the best show for her now that they have switched directions. I know people don't talk about

floater as much anymore. But IMO, she would make the best floater option. Especially now that MM is Ras, before I thought he would be the best option, but it doesn't work as well with him as Ras.

 

But I would settle for her being at least able to smile & enjoy herself more on ARROW.

[Sakura12]

She'd be just as useless a character on there when they have Sara the actual trained Canary. It would also be more confusing to have two Canaries on one show. So no, it doesn't make any sense for her to be on LoT. 

[wonderwall]

I don't understand why LL fans don't want LL to go to a new show like LoT where she'll most likely flourish. I mean what's keeping her in Starling? An ex that cheated on her constantly? A father who she broke her bond with? Other than that she has no friends, no confidantes, nothing except for her job as an ADA which I think is probably the only reason why she's staying (and IMO I don't think is enough). Over on LoT she has a chance to start fresh, to take care of her sister (mentally/emotionally) to grow a bond with her, and she could be a part of a new team. One that she doesn't have to play catch up with in terms of bonding etc. 

 

I just don't get it. 

 

Maybe they're closeted Lauriver fans, IDK. But my understanding is BC was never tied to GA. She was her own character with her own story/comic and she doesn't need a man. Unfortunately LL fans just reduce her to just that, a love interest.

[HighwayFlower]

Send her to the Flash, or Gotham, or Little House on the Prarie for all I care, but keep Laurel far away from Legends of Tomorrow. I would like to actually enjoy this show.

[wonderwall]

Send her to the Flash, or Gotham, or Little House on the Prarie for all I care, but keep Laurel far away from Legends of Tomorrow. I would like to actually enjoy this show.

Lol ya know, Flash would be fine. She had a good reception on that show. Granted, she was unrecognizable on that show, but if people like her there and she can be made relevant, then that would be great. 

[Sakura12]

How would she flourish on Legends? LoT has more than enough people on the team with actual useful skills. Plus I want Sara to shine without being dragged down by her lesser sister. Laurel would add nothing to the show that they don't already have. 

 

Laurel fans probably know that if she was on LoT she'd forever be overshadowed by the far superior Sara Lance. With Sara on her own show traveling through time, that will give Laurel a chance to flourish. 

[Starfish35]

Why would she flourish on LoT? She'd be more in Sara's shadow there than ever. I get why people want her off Arrow, but it makes no more sense having her on either of the other shows than it does having her on Arrow. Plus for the actress it would be a demotion - going from being leading lady (even if in name only ) to being a hanger on that doesn't really fit into the show structure. And it would not serve KC at all well to be on a show where she would constantly be side by side with Caity Lotz and compared to her.

[Chaser]

I can't see LOT being able to support two Canaries full time and I have no clue what they are planning on doing with Laurel on Arrow that isn't a rehash. I think cutting her down to recurring and using her as the float between shows would be the best option. Everyone walks away unhappy - the perfect compromise. Lol

 

This is probably going to sound like a slight against KC and I don't mean it as one, but I really can't picture Laurel smiley and happy. We saw glimpses of it with Cisco and Nyssa, but I can't see it with the regular Arrow cast. The chemistry is off or the lack of history just taints it, I'm not sure. I don't see it.

[wonderwall]

I think that what could work is for Sara to help teach Laurel how to fight. Yeah she'd be overshadowed, but that's the case with LL on every show. She'd be overshadowed on Flash, Gotham is set in the past, LoT there are about 5 other heroes, Arrow has Oliver/Digg and now Thea who's had more training... 

 

I guess the problem we're seeing here is that the LL character is meant to be a lead, and her fans expect her to be the lead and important and have her own storyline that rivals to the main lead (Oliver, Barry). But because she's overshadowed, that's impossible. But at least LoT is an ensemble which is why I thought it would be a better fit? Because there's no one single lead on that show, LL wouldn't have to be a sidekick which is what she's essentially going to be on Arrow.   

 

Lmao we're basically playing hot potato with this character. No one wants her. 

 

I hope that makes sense? I don't think it did lmao

Also I think flourish is the wrong word. She wouldn't flourish because her character is basically a dud. But on a different show she'd probably be less of a dud. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by wonderwall

[kismet]

I don't see her as not having the potential to flourish on LoT. There is potential because they can write her from scratch, so a lot of what makes no sense in SC, could make sense in this new team. I do see the potential of SL outshining her in some ways. But its a completely new show, they can get a new stunt double. They could actually read the BC comics and try to bring to life some of her actual story. Her & SL could band together & fight for women's causes. She's outgrown her role on ARROW, or more appropriately they have written down her role to almost nothing.

 

She could also go to FLASH, I'm sure they could write her in there as well. The FLASH needs some in the field fighting partners. I'm not partial as to where she ends up. But I think a change in scenery would be good for her character.

 

Honestly, I see moving her to another show as the only way DCTV will get a proper Black Canary. I do not know how much they care about that. But if they do, then perhaps she might move. Its why I thought she would make the best

floater

, because then she's not really heavily shown on any of the shows, but yet important.

 

ETA - I like the idea of SL partially training LL, or at least having them train together. A sisterly duo to contend with the Snart brothers.

Edited August 31, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

Wonderwall - I get what you are saying and I agree. S3 was an attempt at turning Arrow into more of an ensemble show - all the new focus and the new masks. It failed. Arrow works when it is about Arrow and those closest too him. That may have been Laurel in the beginning but the show has moved fast that plot point. They detangled Oliver and Laurel to the point that she is a loose thread on the show. She stands out but not for the right reasons.

 

Put her on an ensemble show as another supporting player and she may have a chance at working.

[Starfish35]

But there's no point in having two full-time Canaries on one show, and honestly, I don't want Sara dragged down by Laurel.

Yes, they've screwed up her backstory so badly she's never going to be able to be the equal to Oliver that the Black Canary should be. I agree with that. But sending her to another show to badly fit there isn't going to fix the issue.

[Sakura12]

LoT is traveling through time fighting an immortal, there is no time to train a baby superhero. I would assume they want to assemble a team and just go try to stop Vandal Savage. I also think that Caity Lotz and Brandon Routh will get top billing (with Victor Garber getting the "and") even though it's an ensemble show. 

 

KC would be demoted to the bottom tier, when she's second billed on Arrow. So I can see why her fans wouldn't want that. 

[EmilyBettFan]

Agree that Laurel should smile more. It would be a nice change. KC has a beautiful smile. I'm still trying to figure out what role Laurel will play in creating the Legends of tomorrow team ( I think that's what KC said at SDCC). Are they still forming their mini Justice League on Arrow? By now it includes Oliver, Barry, Laurel & Digg. Maybe she takes on a leadership role in this mini JL team & that's how she's allowed to have an influence on the creation of the LOT team. She wasn't on the rooftop with Oliver & Barry in the LOT promo, but she was included in the LOT part of the SDCC Arrow/TheFlash/Legends of Tomorrow trailer. So I'm curious.

Where is Felicity in that equation? She's been part of Oliver's team before Laurel and Barry.

[kismet]

Well at least we have the colors to help us differentiate them.... :) Colors are apparently very critical in s4 of Arrow.

 

Seriously, I have no idea why they decided to call SL the White Canary, they could have given her a new title so as not to have these 2 characters forever be in competition with each other. Or just let her keep the Canary title.

Where is Felicity in that equation? She's been part of Oliver's team before Laurel and Barry.

Sorry, Felicity doesn't have a mask... is probably the answer that TPTB will give you. She's on the team & she's a vital member. But no mask, no JL jersey. She's probably the equivalent of the Coach. Coach brings championships, but they generally never get the accolades of the in-the-field talent.

[Chaser]

Laurel as Black Canary would have very little place on LOT because of Sara. Which is why I wouldn't suggest she transfer over full time. But Laurel the sister who on occasion pitches in when in town may be able to work.

 

I'm looking at this from an Arrow perspective and what IMO would benefit that show the most, not LOT.

[wonderwall]

Wonderwall - I get what you are saying and I agree. S3 was an attempt at turning Arrow into more of an ensemble show - all the new focus and the new masks. It failed. Arrow works when it is about Arrow and those closest too him. That may have been Laurel in the beginning but the show has moved fast that plot point. They detangled Oliver and Laurel to the point that she is a loose thread on the show. She stands out but not for the right reasons.

 

Put her on an ensemble show as another supporting player and she may have a chance at working.

Thank you! You put it far more eloquently than I did. The problem with Arrow is that when she's on that show, fans will expect her to have just as much importance to the show as Oliver does (and rename the show GA and BC), but on an ensemble show, I don't think her fans will expect as much. Not to mention, her inclusion won't disrupt the nature of the shows. Arrow was meant to have only 1 solo lead, LoT wasn't meant to be that way.

 

But there's no point in having two full-time Canaries on one show, and honestly, I don't want Sara dragged down by Laurel.

Yes, they've screwed up her backstory so badly she's never going to be able to be the equal to Oliver that the Black Canary should be. I agree with that. But sending her to another show to badly fit there isn't going to fix the issue.

 

I don't see why LL would be a bad fit in a new team. A new team means that every single player in said team have to create bonds. LL could easily create new bonds on said team and even get along with some of them. The problem with her on Arrow is that the team was already established and LL just seems like an outsider who shoved her way into the team. 

 

Re: Sara outshining her, I don't think that matters? Yeah Sara is a better fighter, but I think that LL can learn from her better than she can learn from anyone on Arrow. Not only that we can see LL look up to her sister, something that we didn't see because we never really saw them interact that much after LL learned that Sara was the Canary. And I think all of this is achievable without giving her a personality transplant. LL on a new show can be like a newly refurbished character.

 

As for not seeing the need for having 2 canaries on the show... You could say the same thing about any of the character. What's the need of having an ATOM on the show or Hawkgirl or Captain Cold? 

Edited August 31, 2015 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

I get wishing her off Arrow, believe me. But why not wish her to become an occasionally-recurring character, such as Huntress? Why wish to inflict her on another show?

As someone who cares FAR FAR FAR more about LoT than I do about Arrow right now, I do. Not. Want. Her. There. At all. I cannot stand the character, and I do not want her ruining the one show in years that I've been really super excited about.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

I get wishing her off Arrow, believe me. But why not wish her to become an occasionally-recurring character, such as Huntress? Why wish to inflict her on another show?

 

Because I think it would be naive to think that LL/KC would ever be an occasionally-recurring character. :/ 

 

Lol I just don't see how LL could damage LoT at best, she'd become invisible on that show. That's all I'm saying. Why? Because it's an ensemble show. There's a lot going on. Whereas on Arrow, we all know just how much she damaged the show. :/

Edited August 31, 2015 by wonderwall

[HighwayFlower]

The only way Laurel on LOT would have worked is if they had moved Laurel over instead of brining Sara back. Having both of them would always lead to them being compared and Laurel would always come up short. She brings nothing that Sara doesn't already have.

Edited August 31, 2015 by HighwayFlower

[AyChihuahua]

I think it would make more sense to put her on The Flash than LoT. There are currently no physical fighters on Flash, so she'd have a niche, not be a duplicate Canary, and she had at least some chemistry (from what I've heard) with Cisco. (I mean, I think she should be canned, but this is second-best scenario.)

Easy for me to say, though, because I won't be watching The Flash next season. I don't care about any of the characters except Cisco. Although I love most of the actors, who are far better than the material they're given. Love Grant Gustin, loved Barry on Arrow, but was over him when he knowingly put the planet/solar system in danger to maybe save his mother. I like the planet! (Easy way to have not made him a self-centered asshole...don't tell him about the black hole thing until AFTER he'd already traveled...easy peasy. Dumb writers on Flash, too.)

[Starfish35]

Lol I just don't see how LL could damage LoT at best, she'd become invisible on that show.

Then what would be the point of moving her at all? She might as well be invisible where she is.

[kismet]

I get wishing her off Arrow, believe me. But why not wish her to become an occasionally-recurring character, such as Huntress? Why wish to inflict her on another show?

As someone who cares FAR FAR FAR more about LoT than I do about Arrow right now, I do. Not. Want. Her. There. At all. I cannot stand the character, and I do not want her ruining the one show in years that I've been really super excited about.

Well because I think she deserves another shot to have a decent story written for her. And if she is still not appealing in the new show, than we know it was more than just bad writing & lack of chemistry. I don't read the comics, but from what I have read it seems like the Black Canary is a strong female superhero and TV could always use one of those. I would have no problem dropping her to recurring status, but something in the way things have all played out leads me to believe that she has an iron-clad contract that might not have that option.

 

But trust me, I totally get you not wanting her on the show because you cannot stand her. No amount of convincing or evidence is probably going to change your mind. So I think we are all stuck between a rock & a hard place when it comes to finding a place for LL/BC. Maybe LoT can take her & accidentally leave her behind in another time period & she can kickass there offscreen? Or just move to a new city altogether & comeback every so often to visit.

 

ETA - Flash may be the better option as people are pointing out d/t their lack of actual fighters.

Edited August 31, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

Lol. I don't care what is in the best interests of Laurel. I care about my viewing pleasure. 

 

Ideally, I want her written out. I don't care how. Realistically, that won't happen At most, I think they would let her keep second billing but decrease her screen time by appearing on the spin offs. Option 1 is shooting for the moon, Option 2 is the stars. 

[Guest]

The trouble is they continually shoot themselves in the foot where BC is concerned. In s2 they had Sara who was pretty much a perfect BC in everything but name (or could have been given the chance) and they killed her so that Laurel could pick up her mantle. But then a lot of people actually liked Sara in the end and so they decided to bring her back, thereby undermining Laurel's BC yet again. It doesn't matter if Sara is the White Canary now. She'll always be the standard they hold Laurel to. It's just the way it is. 

 

More to the point, when we get down to the nitty gritty of it all, there doesn't seem to be much place for Laurel anymore. If you remove her from the narrative, nothing really changes at all. She doesn't have a direct effect on the plot of the main character anymore. If you think about it, it was Sara who was connecting Laurel's story arc last season and by the sounds of it, it will be Sara yet again connecting them in s4. 

 

I never once thought it would happen anyway but moving LL to another show would only ever work if she was the only Canary left but she's not so it's pretty pointless even considering it. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by Guest

[tangerine95]

I want nothing more then for LL to go to LoT, I don't think she would fit well there or become popular but it would still be better then on Arrow.

I'm not worried about her draging Sara down since Sara will outshine her in every scene.LoT is the best chance to get rid of her,there's no way of her going over to the flash.She has no connections there,why would they put her on Barry's team.I also don't get what people saw in her crossover with Cisco.She was incredibly smug after being BC for a week and Cisco fawned over her for no reason other then she puts on a leather suit.The fact that she smiled doesn't fix anything about her character and as soon as they give her more then 2 scenes that would show.

Her fans will never be happy since they want her to be a lead like Oliver and get her own villain and lead the team.Which will never happen and she's more likely to be the new Roy if she stays on Arrow.

Ideally I would want her to leave Starling and do her own thing offscreen,no show deserves that dead weight.I honestly don't think there's anything they can do to fix her after 3 seasons of failing other then totally change the character.And tbh I doubt KC's ability to play a likable character.

[wonderwall]

I'm just trying to think about this objectively. Laurel does far more damage to Arrow than she would on LoT where she'd at best be invisible if her character doesn't get any traction. 

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm going to watch LoT as well and I'm really excited about it (I don't think I'm interested in entering the fandom for that though. 1 is enough for me), but I'm just trying to think of what would be best for all shows. Granted what would be best would be to drop LL or at the very least make her a floater, but that won't happen :/ 

 

Then what would be the point of moving her at all? She might as well be invisible where she is.

 

The point is that on Arrow she ISN'T invisible and S3 proved that. And the fans want to make her more important than she actually is. Not only that, but I feel like the writers feel obligated to give her SLs which in the end have nothing to do with Oliver's journey. It's distracting to the main objective of the show. But on LoT I don't think that will be the case. You saw what happened in S3. LL sidelined the beloved characters because the writers tried to accommodate her. But the fact of the matter is, is that she doesn't fit on Arrow. But at least she has a chance of fitting on LoT. 

[Sakura12]

The damage she could cause is she would be completely unnecessary. I also get wanting her off Arrow, but she does have more of a place on Arrow since then she does on LoT. LoT has the better Canary, the one they brought back from the dead to have the show. Laurel would just be a useless add on when they have a full plate of other heroes.

 

She's already invisible on Arrow why would any of her fans want her to be even more invisible on another show when she loses her top billing spot? I fail to see how that would be a good thing for Laurel fans. It would only be good for the original team Arrow fans. Not for anyone else, especially the actress. 

 

I fail to see how she would fit in better on LoT, when they already have a Canary that can actually fight. They have a guy in a super suit, they have a guy that becomes a fireball, they have two criminals with fire and ice guns, they have a girl with wings and they have some mystery character. Where would Laurel fit in that? Nowhere. She won't shine more as BC on LoT, she would be even more invisible and useless. That wouldn't be good for her fans or for saving the BC name. Sara is the BC in all but name on LoT.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Sakura12

[wonderwall]

More to the point, when we get down to the nitty gritty of it all, there doesn't seem to be much place for Laurel anymore. If you remove her from the narrative, nothing really changes at all. She doesn't have a direct effect on the plot of the main character anymore. If you think about it, it was Sara who was connecting Laurel's story arc last season and by the sounds of it, it will be Sara yet again connecting them in s4. 

 

I was thinking about this earlier today. But what's hilarious is that if you remove LL from S3s narrative, all things equal, Oliver would've told Quentin about Sara's death, no one would've lied to him, Quentin would've been able to say goodbye to his daughter, he probably still would've been angry at Oliver but not as much, Roy probably wouldn't have left (because that was a result of Q being insanely angry due to LLs lie), and Oliver wouldn't have had his Arrow identity taken from him. 

 

Basically, take LL out, and everyone on the show would be better off. 

 

That's how she affected S3s main storyline. She essentially negatively affected it. -_-

[tangerine95]

They sideline LL in such a weird way.They give her episodes after the midseason hiatus where there's too much of her and then they sideline her from the most important episodes.Even becoming BC she has no real purpose and can be taken out without much changing or any character could to it.

It's true that in season 3 Sara was her only connections to the main plot and it looks like she's her main storyline in season 4.

[Starfish35]

I don't have any hope whatsoever that she would be any better written on LoT (or on The Flash) than she has been on Arrow, and what's worse is she would drag Sara down with her into Lance sisters drama.

As far as I'm concerned the damage on Arrow is already done. Keeping Laurel on Arrow just contains it and keeps it from spreading. Ideally yes, they'd just write her out. But if they're determined to keep her then she needs to stay Arrow's problem, rather than dragging down all the other shows in some sort of misguided attempt to fix her.

As far as I'm concerned the only way to "fix" Laurel now is to get a different BC from a different reality played by a different actress. But.....as that isn't going to happen, I'd just prefer that she not muck up the other shows I'm enjoying.

[Guest]

I was thinking about this earlier today. But what's hilarious is that if you remove LL from S3s narrative, all things equal, Oliver would've told Quentin about Sara's death, no one would've lied to him, Quentin would've been able to say goodbye to his daughter, he probably still would've been angry at Oliver but not as much, Roy probably wouldn't have left (because that was a result of Q being insanely angry due to LLs lie), and Oliver wouldn't have had his Arrow identity taken from him. 

 

Basically, take LL out, and everyone on the show would be better off. 

 

That's how she affected S3s main storyline. She essentially negatively affected it. -_-

 

Pretty much. But I was trying not to say that because I might get in trouble. Haha.

[kismet]

I guess I'm looking at this from a Black Canary perspective. The Laurel Lance character is useless to all 3 shows, that is pretty much a given. But the Black Canary has the potential to show another kickass female superhero, which is something that TV could use. Its something I think the DCTV universe is interested in. So I wonder where the best place to show those talents would be.

 

I do not think they will be properly shown on ARROW, because there is too much bad chemistry among the team where BC is concerned. She will forever be a sidekick, which probably isn't how DCTV wants her.

 

LoT at least is an ensemble show where everyone is a vital part of the team. She wouldn't be just another tag-a-long - especially if they get her in on the origination of the team. But I think they could work the two Canaries to their advantage. I see potential there, but I also see people's concerns.

 

FLASH needs more in-field heroes, so moving her there could make sense. Especially if they somehow make her a meta-human, which I think she is in the comics.

 

Truly, I just don't want to see a female superhero be lost because of some bad writing or possibly casting decisions in 2012. I want to give her one more shot before BC goes the way of so many female superheroes into the oblivion. Do I regret that they opted to make LL instead of SL, absolutely. That was one of the dumbest decisions they made. Also bringing SL back as a Canary another misstep. So yeah, I think the teams have their work cut out for them to fix this mess that they made all on their own choices/doings.

[wonderwall]

 

She's already invisible on Arrow why would any of her fans want her to be even more invisible on another show when she loses her top billing spot?

 

Billing means nothing other than how much KC gets paid more to be honest. Fans of hers have been really upset with how the writers have handled LL so I don't think they'd mind if she moved to a new show. Only the lauriver shippers would mind, I think. 

 

But I disagree with one point, Laurel isn't invisible on Arrow. If she was, Diggle wouldn't have been sidelined, Felicity woudn't have been OOC when she told her she has light in her that Sara didn't, Oliver probably wouldn't have died (because IMO I just think that him dying and staying 'dead' for 3 episodes was just a way for LL to become BC because nothing else came out of his death tbh). 

 

I fail to see how she wouldn't be a better fit on LoT considering it's a new team whereas on Arrow it's been shown just how terribly LL fits into TA. It's like fitting a square peg into a round hole. Even though she was in the cave more often, she still felt like an outsider. And I don't think that will change in S4 even though she's now considered a full member (something she never even earned. So because they rushed it, I think it's too late). But they don't have to rush the development of integrating LL into a new team because everyone is essentially starting at the same point.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned the damage on Arrow is already done.

The damage on Arrow has been done, yes. But it's not irreversible? I don't see why LL will always has to be a problem. Why not try to resuscitate the character, and if it fails just drop her off completely?

 

*shrugs* but that's just how I feel. In the end I have no power on where she goes. It's just how I feel. 

[kismet]

Im having some problems with the editing feature - so I just wanted to clarify my last post. I think bringing back SL is absolutely genius!! I think killing her to advance LL & OQ's stories in s3 was an absolutely poor decision. Beyond the emotional numbness of the scene it was just so dumb & pointless... I'm glad she is going to be back. I just meant that by keeping Canary in her name they are only perpetrating this constant comparison that I think does no justice to either character. I wish they could have given SL a new name & not just a color.

[calliope1975]

Truly, I just don't want to see a female superhero be lost because of some bad writing or possibly casting decisions in 2012. I want to give her one more shot before BC goes the way of so many female superheroes into the oblivion. Do I regret that they opted to make LL instead of SL, absolutely. That was one of the dumbest decisions they made. Also bringing SL back as a Canary another misstep. So yeah, I think the teams have their work cut out for them to fix this mess that they made all on their own choices/doings.

 

Good point. I'm a vocal LL/BC naysayer, but I also see the value in more women heroes. It's a conundrum. Ideally, a Birds of Prey spinoff with Nyssa, Sin, and maybe even Sara, would have been the perfect vehicle for LL/BC to forge her own destiny, but that's not happening. I don't know that she'd work on The Flash. LOT seems cluttered with characters already, and it hasn't even started yet. As much as I like/prefer ignoring the character, I admit to a bit of morbid curiosity in how she'll be handled this year on Arrow. 

[statsgirl]

I think there's a real role for Laurel on Arrow as a kickass attorney.  Unfortunately, that's the last thing the EPs want for her.

 

On LoT, with Sara and Hawkgirl, it's going to be painfully obvious that her skill set isn't up to theirs.  The Flash has a dearth of heroes, maybe there is room for her there.  It would make Cisco happy.

[lemotomato]

Truly, I just don't want to see a female superhero be lost because of some bad writing or possibly casting decisions in 2012. I want to give her one more shot before BC goes the way of so many female superheroes into the oblivion. Do I regret that they opted to make LL instead of SL, absolutely. That was one of the dumbest decisions they made. Also bringing SL back as a Canary another misstep. So yeah, I think the teams have their work cut out for them to fix this mess that they made all on their own choices/doings.

Unfortunately for BC/LL, the only EP that was truly a BC fan was Andrew Kreisberg, who doesn't have anything to do with Arrow anymore. So I don't expect the writing to change for her in future seasons, as in, I don't think she's going to get any more or less time/focus/effort than she already has in previous seasons.

 

We might spend a lot of time here talking about what to do about LL/BC and trying to figure out how to make her fit better on the show, but from what I can tell, the EPs think they've already "fixed" her on the show by giving her the mask, the name, and the Canary Cry. I'm pretty sure they're going into season 4 thinking that BC fans are satisfied that she's got all the superficial stuff that makes her BC (judging by the reaction at the news of

her getting a motorcycle?

), and fans of the show are satisfied that she's a masked fighter integrated into GA's team (rather than isolated with her own unrelated storyline, which was a common complaint in seasons 1&2). So they're just going to continue on their merry way, with LL vigilante-ing as competently as everyone else on the team, occasionally throwing her a big juicy storyline like Sara's resurrection. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by lemotomato

[Starfish35]

I fail to see how she wouldn't be a better fit on LoT considering it's a new team

Because Sara is there. And she is always going to be the lesser Canary next to Sara. If Sara wasn't there, you might be right (although it wouldn't be a show I would watch). She could make her own space and her own team. But with Sara there she is just Sara's sister, and redundant.

Honestly, what Laurel really needs is her own team, and she's not going to get that on any of the existing shows, including LoT because that's not her team, it's Sara's. On LoT she would always always be playing second fiddle to her sister.

As much as I don't like the character, I do think giving her her own team (the BoP) and sending her off with them is the only realistic redemption for this version of the character. Now do I think that's likely to happen? Probably not.