S20.E10: Alta Kockers

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:01 AM, Zoe said:

What I don't get is if they were so disconnected from the modern world, how could he write a novel (two, in fact) that resonate so well with modern audiences?

I saw a screenshot of the page from the book, and oof, NBC's standards team must not bother going frame by frame!

He had an internet connection and some themes are universal?

On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:04 AM, FozzyBear said:

How exactly did they get a warrant for the house? What were they investing? Suspicion of not being murdered on 12th Avenue? Conspiring to cash a check? Felony being alive?

Also how dumb is this group of detectives not to wonder if the whole Bobbi persona wasn’t completely made up after the publisher admired hiring a Street kid to play him? I mean this is a post JT LeRoy, The Night Listener, A Milion Littke Pieces, A Child Called It world. Literary scams are not exactly unheard of.

That troubled me too but Bobbo had described being abused in the book which was supposedly true life?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:46 PM, TV Anonymous said:

How could the brothers spend their mother's money if her whereabouts were not known? No investigation on her disappearance? 

Presumably as she was so sick they would have had power of attorney? Plus it seems likely the whole family was somewhat weird and reclusive, I mean their house is a gothic castle?

[Joe Hellandback]

1. I missed it the first time but when Tammy is asked how she survived as a hustler she replies 'It's the only life I know', straight out of 'Street Life'

2. I like the low key way they arrest the suspect but they let him hide his hands behind his back, really? And they don't cuff this suspect who beat someone's head in with a brick? The way Finn has been taking freebies lately I wonder he didn't decide to have some lamb? 

3. Plus how is this manslaughter? He followed her to the book signing and then followed her outside, surely that's premeditation? And he kills her because she is trans and had fooled him into thinking he was a she, surely that's a hate crime?

4. Rollins, how about we don't tell the suspect the interview gameplan just in case he doesn't confesses? 

5. What exactly does Carisi want to arrest the publisher for? The only thing he does wrong is buy a phony ID and even then he's not using it to commit any crime so it's not an article for fraud?

6. The 2 brothers are excellent, you always wondered how Warldorf and Statler would end up? Shame they didn't make a Taxi or 'Don't enter a game of death with a Sicilian' joke. 

7. What power did they have to take them down the station if they weren't under arrest?

8. Benson's reasoning that in order to write the book you must have lived it is crazy! Mario Puzo was never in the Mafia, Tom Clancy was never a military officer/spy/cop, Sylvester Stallone never served in Vietnam (he was actually slightly too old to be drafted, turning 18 in 1964) but his speech at the end of First Blood touched every veteran's heart. Look at 'Michelle Remembers' and all the other liars who had everyone fooled for years? But I guess this is SVU and everybody has to have been abused at sometime? 

9. Would have liked a bit more Stone, also we actually have a sympathetic defence lawyer which was nice. You wonder what Stone would have said in his opening? 

10. I don't mind Mariska's cousin on the show as long as they don't try to make him a main character. Telly Savalas had his brother on Kojak and MJH had her sister playing Sabrina's cousin Amanda.  

11. Some nice mocking of the 'costal elites', unusual for such a leftie show. 

12. Boy what a great house, surprised we don't see that in more shows/films.

9/10, the best SVU episode in YEARS!

Hopefully with the show on hiatus in the US we'll have a chance to catch up here in the UK?

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

In fairness she does say 'possible'?

Benson also called Stone's drinking binge and "possible" rape from 12 years ago (Mea Culpa) a rape and arrested him. I was just expecting Benson to do some crusading, like she usually does.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

On 11/29/2018 at 10:52 PM, dttruman said:

Yes, but we still get Benson consoling a victim. Will someone tell me why Benson and Rollins are interrogating them?. I thought this was a Fin and Carisi case.

In fairness, Amanda needs something to do, Fin and Carisi are busy searching.

Yeah, they have to fit Rollins in there some where. But since they were seniors, I thought they would go the "old school" route. Guys from back in that era would be more comfortable talking about stuff like that with men and be too embarrassed to talk about that with women

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

What exactly does Carisi want to arrest the publisher for? The only thing he does wrong is buy a phony ID and even then he's not using it to commit any crime so it's not an article for fraud?

There was a SVU episode a long time ago where they were tracking down a suspect who used someone else's I.D. and used a credit card in his name. But since the suspect paid the bill, there was no crime.

1 hour ago, Joe Hellandback said:

What power did they have to take them down the station if they weren't under arrest?

I think Carisi wanted to take them downtown, because he thought they rigged a booby trap when those books and stuff fell on him.

[CrystalBlue]

4 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Nothing sad about remembering Taxi, I do too. 

In fairness she does say 'possible'?

So do I!  What a great show that was.

Every crime is a possible hate crime unless it involves two or more straight white males.  :/

ETA:  Who are non-religious or Christian.  Any crime against a person of any other religion is a hate crime.

Edited December 21, 2018 by CrystalBlue

[dttruman]

36 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

5 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Nothing sad about remembering Taxi, I do too. 

In fairness she does say 'possible'?

So do I!  What a great show that was.

What about "Dear John?

[CrystalBlue]

6 hours ago, dttruman said:

What about "Dear John?

Those were the good old days, and we didn't even know how good we had it, such great sitcoms.

[Joe Hellandback]

2 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Those were the good old days, and we didn't even know how good we had it, such great sitcoms.

Dear John must be a unique series, an American adaptation of a British series which was not only was much more successful than the original it was actually bought back by the BBC and screened here. 

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Dear John must be a unique series, an American adaptation of a British series which was not only was much more successful than the original it was actually bought back by the BBC and screened here. 

I don't know anything about how "Dear John" originated in America. But when they cast for the counselor (character) for the support group, did they give it to that British lady in order to honor the British series from which it was taken?

15 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

21 hours ago, dttruman said:

What about "Dear John?

Those were the good old days, and we didn't even know how good we had it, such great sitcoms.

NBC had a good run of sitcoms for a long time.

[Fellaway]

2 hours ago, dttruman said:

NBC had a good run of sitcoms for a long time.

Yep, especially on Thursday night, leading to the 10PM slot on Thursdays becoming a prestige slot for whatever drama they programmed in there for many years.  These days...  Even Will & Grace is losing steam in the ratings.

[SarahPrtr]

On 12/22/2018 at 4:53 PM, CrystalBlue said:

Those were the good old days, and we didn't even know how good we had it, such great sitcoms.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The shows were original and had writers with actual talent.  Granted, so many plots have been explored since then, but still!!!  The world is changing and you can write so much better!  But then I remember all the politically-correct-bs that the writers probably have to face, and I go back to wishing for the good ol' days where you people could say dumb shit on television and it wasn't picked apart 10000000000 different ways.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎22‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:16 PM, dttruman said:

I don't know anything about how "Dear John" originated in America. But when they cast for the counselor (character) for the support group, did they give it to that British lady in order to honor the British series from which it was taken?

NBC had a good run of sitcoms for a long time.

Ah yes, Jane Carr, was just watching her as one of Londo's wives on B5.

On ‎22‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:28 PM, Fellaway said:

Yep, especially on Thursday night, leading to the 10PM slot on Thursdays becoming a prestige slot for whatever drama they programmed in there for many years.  These days...  Even Will & Grace is losing steam in the ratings.

Because it's trying to be politically relevant rather than funny? In fairness W&G is a victim of its' own success, it made the idea of gay culture so mainstream it's now lost its' selling point. 

19 hours ago, SarahPrtr said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SO MUCH THIS!!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The shows were original and had writers with actual talent.  Granted, so many plots have been explored since then, but still!!!  The world is changing and you can write so much better!  But then I remember all the politically-correct-bs that the writers probably have to face, and I go back to wishing for the good ol' days where you people could say dumb shit on television and it wasn't picked apart 10000000000 different ways.

Hence why they brought back Last Man and Roseanne/The Connors?

[ForeverAlone]

This was one of those episodes that is also a SVU throwback, but sort of to late Neal Baer years (though without the piles upon piles of ridiculous twists- this one only had a few twists). You know, those episodes that start with one sort of sex crime, solve it quickly and then pivot to something rather different. Plus that sort of scenery chewing guest stars that used to garner them Emmys. Overall, I was rather underwhelmed with this episode, because I was never a huge fan of those Baer guest star showcases that detracted from the team's work. At least if you are going to go old school, throw in some over the top craptastic twists, which this didn't really (at least for me). 

It seemed like the team spent way too much not even questioning Bobby O'Rourke's supposed existence. They just took it on face value for way too long, even though there was no objective evidence that he existed (beyond some IP address hits). Plus I honestly wondered if the team should have been questioning these men for as long as they did without any sort of psych involvement. It was pretty clear these men (at least one of them) weren't all there, and you aren't going to get some good information.  

The show was clearly going for some heart tugging emotions, but it just didn't get there for me. It is episodes like this that really make me miss the Warren Leight years, when the episode was more tightly focused on an actual SVU case.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, ForeverAlone said:

It seemed like the team spent way too much not even questioning Bobby O'Rourke's supposed existence. They just took it on face value for way too long, even though there was no objective evidence that he existed (beyond some IP address hits). Plus I honestly wondered if the team should have been questioning these men for as long as they did without any sort of psych involvement. It was pretty clear these men (at least one of them) weren't all there, and you aren't going to get some good information.  

The show was clearly going for some heart tugging emotions,

This episode was made clearly to focus on the two brothers and their problems, but the way they arranged for it to happen was pretty low-level story telling. That good point you make about lack of psych involvement lessens the quality even more because it was sacrificed to give more face time to Benson and Rollins.

The one flimsy excuse I didn't like (if I remember right), is the one they used in order to search their home and subsequently find their mother. Carisi had a lot of papers and boxes fall on him and he thought they were trying to purposely injure him and I think he called it a "Booby Trap". Do "pack-rat type " or "horders" really set traps like that?

Edited January 6, 2019 by dttruman

[statsgirl]

On 11/30/2018 at 8:01 PM, Zoe said:

What I don't get is if they were so disconnected from the modern world, how could he write a novel (two, in fact) that resonate so well with modern audiences?

Let's see how If Beale Street Could Talk does.  Some themes are universal.

On 12/14/2018 at 10:22 PM, TV Anonymous said:

Oh, okay. I thought the mother was rich - thus the big house - and they were using her inheritance. But if so, how did they get the inheritance?

They were house wealthy but with no income. It's a common thing in places where property values have gone sky high.

5 hours ago, dttruman said:

The one flimsy excuse I didn't like (if I remember right), is the one they used in order to search their home and subsequently find their mother. Carisi had a lot of papers and boxes fall on him and he thought they were trying to purposely injure him and I think he called it a "Booby Trap". Do "pack-rat type " or "horders" really set traps like that?

Yes.  That's how one of the real Collyer brothers died.  One of his booby traps fell on him and killed him. And then his blind brother starved to death because no  one knew he was there.

On 12/28/2018 at 9:18 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

Ah yes, Jane Carr, was just watching her as one of Londo's wives on B5.

runs off to re-watch the episode

[dttruman]

11 hours ago, dttruman said:

The one flimsy excuse I didn't like (if I remember right), is the one they used in order to search their home and subsequently find their mother. Carisi had a lot of papers and boxes fall on him and he thought they were trying to purposely injure him and I think he called it a "Booby Trap". Do "pack-rat type " or "horders" really set traps like that?

 

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Yes.  That's how one of the real Collyer brothers died.  One of his booby traps fell on him and killed him. And then his blind brother starved to death because no  one knew he was there.

I want to take back this criticism I made concerning the Alta Kockers episode and I want to thank "statsgirl" for bringing it to my attention. What makes it even worse, I spelled "hoarders" wrong.