Criminal Minds Unpopular Opinions

[zannej]

Oh, I hear you on the finding shoes that are comfortable. My foot is wide at the toes, but somewhat narrow at the heel and I have a high arch on the top of my foot. Shoes that fit the sides are still usually too shallow on the top and cut into the top of my foot and cut off circulation. I guess I wore sandles for too many years when I was overseas on tropical islands.

 

Pretty sure MGG has more shoes than me. LOL. Thomas might too. He seems to like shoes.

[normasm]

In my experience, the shoe thing is youth + disposable income, which comes with one's first good job, or did back when your first job could actually lead to better and better jobs. I loved the shoes I could buy when I was in my 20s, and bought several pairs which I kept until my foot got a little bigger and wouldn't fit. I kept one particular pair even though I can never wear them, because they were so damn cool. Doesn't mean I wasn't or ain't smart! 

[MCatry]

Personally, I never quite cared about shoes, except for being comfortable. I never used long boots, nor stilettos. My sister, however, she fits the Shoe-woman stereotype just perfectly, back when she was a teenager, and now almost fifty. And my mom still regrets not being able to wear high heels anymore. I never quite understood how I grew up with them.

[Droogie]

I myself do have a shoe thing, not gonna lie. But I seriously don't enjoy shopping for shopping's sake, at a mall or wherever. I'd rather stay home and stick a fork in my eye. So I agree that it was a dumb, stereotypical thing to say.

[normasm]

I never got into high heels, however, I loved jazz flats, two-toned oxfords and Doc Martins!

 

One of my sisters bought a yellow and a pink pair of Converse, and would wear one of each, never one color for both!

Edited August 28, 2015 by normasm

[Saje]

Nobody loves shoes like a Drag Queen loves shoes - so both man and woman! Fifty-fifty! :)

[zannej]

LOL. For some reason the discussion of who likes a lot of shoes reminded me of the time I was trying to explain an accounting concept to my sister. I mentioned something about someone buying 250 pairs of shoes-- and my sister interrupted with "Imelda Marcos is stupid". LOL. My sister likes shoes to an extent-- she's not totally crazy over them, but she likes shoe-shopping and clothing shopping. She's more "girly" than me I guess.

 

I wouldn't have minded the shoe thing so much in the episode if they had established that not all women are big into shoes and also not had Reid be so clueless about it. I hate when they make Reid clueless. I can see him not knowing about some things because they would be outside of his area of interest or need-to-know, but I agree that he would have searched enough closets and probably read enough about women and such to try to learn more about them to not be clueless.

[Bookish Jen]

Yes, despite what Morgan may think, not every woman is obsessed with shoes so I really hated the the ladies love their shoe remark he made to Reid.

A few years ago, I was a shoe fanatic but now? Not so much. I just need a few basics. And I avoid stillettos. I don't care if a shoe costs hundreds of dollars, stripper shoes are stripper shoes. I much prefer mid-heels and cute flats.

 

Today, I'm more about scarves (I have a lot of scarves, many are vintage), handbags (I find a lot of cute bags at thrift stores) and jewelry (mostly my handmade pieces).

 

On-topic: I kind of liked Elle's long bob with the bangs. I thought she looked cute!

[normasm]

Yeah, my husband has more shoes than I do now. He must have 20 pairs of Chucks at least.

 

I agree about Elle's bangs, although her hair in Fisher King (got it right this time) was the best.

[pawneerangers]

I don't care about shoes either and hate how TV makes it seem like all women are obsessed with them. 

 

I said before that my unpopular opinion is not caring either way about Emily Prentiss and so I hope it's okay to ask this here: What about Prentiss do most of y'all love so much and what makes her such a great character? I don't hate her and see why fans like the actress but as a character she didn't make an imoression on me. Someone said she was all over the place and that's a good way to describe it. I know it's hard to determine tone over the internet but please trust that I'm not trolling or trying to make anyone feel like they have to defend loving the character. I really want to see what is so special and well-written about her because I haven't been able to even when I try. I feel like the criticisms people make of the women on this show not having set personalities or being consistent is definitely true of Prentiss as well but my mind is open to changing! 

[BookWoman56]

What about Prentiss do most of y'all love so much and what makes her such a great character? .... I feel like the criticisms people make of the women on this show not having set personalities or being consistent is definitely true of Prentiss as well but my mind is open to changing! 

While I don’t really regard Prentiss as being any better or more consistently defined than the other female characters on the show, I do think Paget Brewster infused the character with more appeal than Prentiss would have otherwise had. That said, season 1 Elle is probably my favorite female character, followed by Prentiss, Blake and Callahan all on about the same level, followed by JJ of the first few seasons and Seaver, with Garcia and later season JJ at the bottom.

With the female characters, IMO the writers have made the characterization inconsistent by going to the same well in an attempt to make the character more “interesting.” With the female characters who have lasted more than one season, the writers essentially retcon the character to make her have some special background or skill that was not previously a part of her character. So, Prentiss transformed into a superspy, JJ evolved into a superninja off-screen, and Garcia morphed into a genius when previously she had simply been an expert hacker/IT tech (not that there has been much actual evidence of her expertise with IT security, given how many times the system has been hacked). Instead of taking the character and showing some organic growth or devolution, the writers just tack some new supposed backstory or skill onto the character with no regard to whether that backstory/skill set makes any damn sense whatsoever. Hence, characters who are all over the place. The single exception was that Elle’s spinning out of control seemed a more or less natural outcome of her trauma, but even that arc could have been handled better.

Again IMO the same trend is there for the male characters, only with them, the writers’ stock answer is to insert personal tragedy. Gideon’s girlfriend was murdered in his apartment by Frank, who then also killed a former victim that Gideon had helped rescue. Hotch’s wife is killed by Foyet. Reid’s girlfriend is murdered in front of him. Morgan turns out to have suffered sexual abuse when younger. Rossi’s ex-wife died of illness but hey, at least it was natural causes.  These tragedies give the characters the opportunity to display some angst, but from my perspective, anybody dating a male member of the BAU needs to think twice about the odds for survival. Imagine Reid on a date explaining the background to someone new: My former mentor’s GF was murdered, my boss’s ex-wife was murdered, and my former GF was murdered. New date: Oh, wow, look at the time. I just remembered I have to wash my hair tonight. And while I could make a case that the writers have done a marginally better job at taking these tragedies and showing how the male characters respond to them than they have of handling the so-called growth of the female characters, characterization remains a weak part of the writing as a whole.

Ultimately my UO is that I really don’t want to see any more of the team’s personal lives unless it is an extremely brief reference to a spouse, SO or offspring who remains off-screen 99% of the time. I don’t trust the writers to handle characterization regarding personal lives and so I’d rather they concentrate on the cases instead. When it comes to characterization, the only thing the writers have been consistent about is inconsistency.

[Old Dog]

Ultimately my UO is that I really don’t want to see any more of the team’s personal lives unless it is an extremely brief reference to a spouse, SO or offspring who remains off-screen 99% of the time. I don’t trust the writers to handle characterization regarding personal lives and so I’d rather they concentrate on the cases instead. When it comes to characterization, the only thing the writers have been consistent about is inconsistency.

I totally agree with your post. They should stop retconning and put some effort into more credible growth and development of the characters. And I don't believe that your UO is really a UO - I talk and read about CM a great deal and many, many fans agree that they would prefer to have light mentions of the team's personal lives threaded into the episodes as the writers have a really terrible track record in trying to write them. I swear they lift some of their outlandish ideas straight out of the worst of fanfiction! Let them concentrate on the cases.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Old Dog

[amensisterfriend]

While I don’t really regard Prentiss as being any better or more consistently defined than the other female characters on the show, I do think Paget Brewster infused the character with more appeal than Prentiss would have otherwise had.

 

YES! This. I will agree wholeheartedly that Prentiss was just as poorly and inconsistently defined as the other female CM characters except maybe Elle, who at least came across like someone to whom the writers bothered assigning one or two salient personality traits. But Paget Brewster brought a certain warmth, vibrancy and intensity to the role that made the character 'real' and sometimes even compelling to me despite the typically poor writing. That said, for people who don't happen to love the actress or feel as inclined to fanwank and fill in blanks as I do, I totally get feeling baffled over why Prentiss was so beloved compared to other female characters---because she really was underwritten and/or inconsistently written far more often than not. 

 

As far as the male characters go...yeah, I don't really see the writers winning awards for how they define or develop their male characters either, though at least most of them were initially given a few distinguishing traits beyond Generically, Flatly and Blandly Awesome, so the writing for the male characters kind of gets the edge by sad default ;) 

 

Ultimately my UO is that I really don’t want to see any more of the team’s personal lives unless it is an extremely brief reference to a spouse, SO or offspring who remains off-screen 99% of the time. I don’t trust the writers to handle characterization regarding personal lives and so I’d rather they concentrate on the cases instead. When it comes to characterization, the only thing the writers have been consistent about is inconsistency.

 

Amen! I'd rather see the writers get back to their strengths. Honestly, the more they've tried to clunkily focus on the characters' personal lives and their dully perfect, identical 'see, they're FAMILY!' interactions with one another, the less interesting the characters and their relationships have become. At least when all we got were intriguing crumbs as to who these people were and what made them tick, we could happily fanwank the rest. Now the curtain's been sloppily lifted and, honestly, the majority of the team was a heck of a lot more interesting and likable to me before we focused on them so heavily. Plus, the misguided focus on the team---involving a lot of screen time yet somehow never illuminating anything new or interesting about them along the way---has seemed to correspond with weaker cases and profiling, an aspect of the show which, unlike characterization, the writers were at least once capable of doing very well! 

[normasm]

I said before that my unpopular opinion is not caring either way about Emily Prentiss and so I hope it's okay to ask this here: What about Prentiss do most of y'all love so much and what makes her such a great character? I don't hate her and see why fans like the actress but as a character she didn't make an imoression on me. Someone said she was all over the place and that's a good way to describe it. I know it's hard to determine tone over the internet but please trust that I'm not trolling or trying to make anyone feel like they have to defend loving the character. I really want to see what is so special and well-written about her because I haven't been able to even when I try. I feel like the criticisms people make of the women on this show not having set personalities or being consistent is definitely true of Prentiss as well but my mind is open to changing! 

See, I think Prentiss is sexy and mysterious, and i'm not talking about the super spy arc they came up with to hastily kick her off the show. Part of it is that Paget herself is a naturally sexy woman, not completely "beautiful" in a Hollywood way, but funny and lively, sexy. But I can see your problem with the inconsistency of the  character: she has always been inconsistently written. To me, it must be because the actress is good at what she does that she manages to make Prentiss a good character, IMO. She is not all over the place, but rather the writing for her is.

[Bookish Jen]

To me, Prentiss is a woman that appeals to both men and woman. Yes, I find her sexy, but it's in a way that is real and warm. She's not off-putting. She's attractive, but in a relatable way. She's smart, hard-working and a bit dorky.

 

But yes, the character of Prentiss did suffer in her latter seasons, but that has nothing to do with Paget. It was mostly due to the writers, which sucks because so many of the writers are women. You would think they could write female characters a bit better.

 

And sadly, the male characters haven't fared any better either under MESSer's direction, especially our beloved Reid and Hotch.

 

Sigh....

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Ultimately my UO is that I really don’t want to see any more of the team’s personal lives unless it is an extremely brief reference to a spouse, SO or offspring who remains off-screen 99% of the time. I don’t trust the writers to handle characterization regarding personal lives and so I’d rather they concentrate on the cases instead. When it comes to characterization, the only thing the writers have been consistent about is inconsistency.

 

To a point, I agree that they should cut way back on the personal stories, since the show's track record with them in recent seasons has been less than totally amazing, to say the least. I also agree that since the only way the writers seem to be able to maybe-possibly give the characters some growth is by piling tragedy on them, that's another reason they should lay off. Yes, their working lives are filled with the terrible things people do to one another, but that doesn't mean their private lives should be just as angst-filled.

 

However.

 

Often, the argument against showing more of the characters' personal lives tends to be, "This isn't a soap opera." Which is true, and beside the probably irrelevant dismissiveness I hear in that - at their best soaps are about not only the relationships of fictional families, but the connection between real ones, since I watched my mom's and her mom's "stories" growing up, and its only in recent years that I finally weaned myself away from them - I think that, done well, the personal stoires weren't always terrible. The ones that were bad could be very bad indeed, but they didn't all suck. At the minimum, I think its acceptable to have just a line or two here and there to indicate that these people exist when they're not in the office, particularly poor ignored Reid. Its my issue that it bothers me so much to think that a fictional person doesn't have a life unless he's working, but IMO its also a flaw in the writing, that he seems to be the only one who doesn't.

 

As for Prentiss, as has been said her appeal has less to do with the writing than it does with the actress. Even before the superspy thing, they changed her personality from a somewhat geeky book nerd to a hard-partying Goth chick, and while that's not inherently a bad thing, its incredibly inconsistent with the way Emily was initially presented - unsure of being accepted, easily irked at the idea that she'd used her mother's influence to take the place Elle had vacated, resentful of politics in general. Admittedly, Paget's off-kilter sexiness made the party girl thing a little easier to believe, but that doesn't mean the writing was any less scattershot.

[BookWoman56]

I don't have an issue with dramas in general showing the personal lives of characters. One of the reasons I liked shows such as thirtysomething and Once and Again is that there was a good balance of work-related issues and personal issues. I wouldn't object to seeing more personal stories about some of the characters, especially Reid, if the writing quality was at the same level it was the first few years of the show. But I don't trust this group of writers to handle personal storylines well. Yes, I'd like acknowledgement that Reid has a life, and a happy one at that, outside of work. But given their treatment thus far of Reid's personal life (mentally ill mother, drug addiction, murder of girlfriend), I don't really want them to tackle his personal life because I don't want it to be show canon that his personal life is currently unhappy. As long as it's not specified, I can assume that he's doing fine outside of work. If they want to allude to Reid having friends, hobbies, a new love interest, fine, but I can't envision them doing well with anything more involved than just a mention that those things exist.

 

ETA: I think Diana's mental illness makes sense for Reid's character as he was depicted in the early seasons. What I object to is they have given him that backstory plus the drug addiction plus seeing his girlfriend killed in front of him plus his previous mentor being murdered. It's as if the writers cannot come up with a single pleasurable activity or any relationship for Reid that is not loaded with angst, which again is why I would prefer they stay away from Reid's personal life, other than one or two lines mentioning he has one that is not horrible, because I have zero doubt that if they decide to devote any significant time to his personal life, it will be yet another arc that ranges from unpleasant to tragic. Reid is by far my favorite character and the one I find most compelling, and so while I'd like him to have more screen time, I would first have to see the writers be willing to make him contribute more to the cases on a consistent basis before I'd trust them to go near his personal life.

Edited September 27, 2015 by BookWoman56

[Droogie]

 

 

Often, the argument against showing more of the characters' personal lives tends to be, "This isn't a soap opera." Which is true, and beside the probably irrelevant dismissiveness I hear in that - at their best soaps are about not only the relationships of fictional families, but the connection between real ones, since I watched my mom's and her mom's "stories" growing up, and its only in recent years that I finally weaned myself away from them - I think that, done well, the personal stoires weren't always terrible. The ones that were bad could be very bad indeed, but they didn't all suck. At the minimum, I think its acceptable to have just a line or two here and there to indicate that these people exist when they're not in the office, particularly poor ignored Reid. Its my issue that it bothers me so much to think that a fictional person doesn't have a life unless he's working, but IMO its also a flaw in the writing, that he seems to be the only one who doesn't.

 

Oh, yes. My sentiments exactly.

[zannej]

I have to agree that on paper, Prentiss may not be a very appealing character, but Paget just brought something to the screen that made me like her. It was the facial expressions and way she delivered the lines. She seemed more "real". Just as, I think Reid might not come across well in writing and the character might not be so popular if he'd been portrayed by a different actor.

 

I do sometimes wonder how much the various characters would be liked and how different it would be had they cast different performers. With Paget and Matthew, I think it would be detrimental to the characters.

[JMO]

I have to agree that on paper, Prentiss may not be a very appealing character, but Paget just brought something to the screen that made me like her. It was the facial expressions and way she delivered the lines. She seemed more "real". Just as, I think Reid might not come across well in writing and the character might not be so popular if he'd been portrayed by a different actor.

 

I do sometimes wonder how much the various characters would be liked and how different it would be had they cast different performers. With Paget and Matthew, I think it would be detrimental to the characters.

 

I completely agree.  I think the success of the character of Emily Prentiss is due, in largest part, to the work of Paget Brewster in portraying her.  

 

Here's what may or may not be an unpopular opinion, but it's a pet peeve:  I think that Paget is the only one of the cast who actually consistently hit the right inflection in her lines.  All too often, each of the others ends up emphasizing the wrong word, thereby altering the intended meaning of the words.  Or they fall into the rut of having the same pattern of inflection with nearly every line. One of them tends to go up at the end of the line, while another starts low, goes up, and then comes down again, with nearly every sentence.  Once you notice it, it's hard not to be distracted by it.  

 

I'll let you figure out which is which.  Unless you don't want the distraction.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

 Yes, I'd like acknowledgement that Reid has a life, and a happy one at that, outside of work. But given their treatment thus far of Reid's personal life (mentally ill mother, drug addiction, murder of girlfriend), I don't really want them to tackle his personal life because I don't want it to be show canon that his personal life is currently unhappy.

 

New UO, and I don't know if this is even rational or not, but of those three things, I actually think the thing about Diana's illness make sense.

 

One of the reasons Reid was able to relate to Dr. Dwyer in Derailed is because he must have had to play along with his mom's hallucinations when he was younger, and it also informed his relationship with Gideon, who could be just as troubled. I don't think Jason completely reciprocated Reid's possible attempt at having a father/son type of dynamic with him, partly because he was maybe not all there and partly because he was kind of an ass even on his good days, but I think that Spencer saw Gideon as a combination of his parents, troubled Diana and distant William. Even in the early seasons of the show, Reid's empathy is one of his standout qualities, and I think that growing up with Diana must have contributed to that.

[amensisterfriend]

So this one no doubt relates to my obsession---er, totally rational fondness---of S2's blunt, dorky, slightly but endearingly socially awkward, quick, competent, tense, intense, passionate, funny, vibrant, brilliant, actually-got-to-sometimes-use-her-knowledge-of-others-languages-and-cultures-and-ugh-I-SO-miss-when-different-team-members-had-different-skills-and-areas-of-expertise Emily (*exhale!*), but I really like the understandably hated Honor Among Thieves. Yes, parts of the case are cringe inducing, but it has its moments! A lot of the characters get a few really good lines and profiling observations here, as was typical of those earliest seasons. *wistful sigh*  And unlike most of the embarrassingly clunky "let's get PERSONAL!" stuff the show does in more recent seasons, I thought the parts with Emily and her mother worked really well. I felt like we got great insight into Emily's relationship with her mom and why Emily's a mixture of competence/confidence and slightly too eager to please insecurity. And it was so beautifully subtle! Maybe even TOO subtle---I'll admit that I do a little fanwanking when I watch this episode---but it was so cool to get intriguing clues as to what makes our team members tick without being clobbered over the head with forced, awkward drama. 

 

A more general UO is that S2 is so much more awesome than I usually give it credit for, incredibly compelling, thought-provoking, and even with more moments of subtle humor and warmth than I had realized. The one silver lining behind the cloud that is later season disappointments is that S1-S4 seem retrospectively more wonderful than ever before! 

Edited October 3, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[SSAHotchner]

I have no issue with the fact that Elle wasn't close to Penelope and JJ. I honestly could not see them being friends anyway. Granted, on paper Reid and Elle would not be good friends, but that relationship worked on screen based on the writing and the acting. The friendship among Emily, JJ and Penelope does feel natural and organic, but Elle just gave off a different vibe. 

 

Criminal Minds can be adept at mixing sly, light humor with the darkness, but I prefer that stuff that does not feel tacked on or schmaltzy. Unfortunately, since Erica took over, we have seen a rise in that sort of interaction, and it feels false to me. I can't buy into the family vibe, because it can feel cheesy. I didn't have a problem with the prank war IN THEORY, but I do have a problem with Reid's payback. It didn't feel like Reid at all. He is brilliant and clever and the best he could come up with was screaming into Morgan's ear? I don't think so. It would have made more sense if it was something clever that Morgan could not have come up with on his own. I mean, based on what we saw, Morgan's contribution to the prank war was far more ingenious than Reid's. 

JJ wasn't in the pilot episode, but her first contact with Elle in episode 2 was dismissive. I'm sure that would have ticked 

Elle off. 

[Saje]

JJ was busy, not dismissive. She was office-friendly, saying her door was always open, smiling and shaking her hand while in motion, as was obviously the direction. Elle, as much as I love her, was always the one that kept away from the other women. She just related better to the boys.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

[amensisterfriend]

I agree, saje---and in fact I actually really liked that first introduction to JJ! She was a little hyper and lively and just generally exuded far more energy and personality than she did for most of the rest of the series :) 

 

Elle and JJ were borderline opposites, IMO, which might have been fun to explore if Elle had been on the show for longer and if JJ had been written as anything other than a deadly dull, blandly perfect nonentity even before she became a first class ninja. Elle is a cop's daughter from Brooklyn while JJ had a traditional small town upbringing in Pennsylvania. JJ was depicted as kind of mainstream All American---traditionally pretty, polite, athletic, socially accepted by all, while Elle is more outspoken, 'unpopular', more apt to rub people the wrong way. I see Elle as tough and abrupt on the outside but gooey on the inside, while JJ is sweet on the outside but with (again, IMO!) a steely core and a surprising need to keep people at a distance.

 

I would have actually found that dynamic a lot more interesting than Emily/JJ's boring, effortlessly harmonious yet shallow seeming friendship which served to illuminate pretty much nothing about either character.  

[normasm]

Amen, amensister! Well drawn, the difference between JJ and Elle. Makes me wish Elle had stayed on and the dynamic between them could have been explored. By the best writers, of course. Especially this:

 

I see Elle as tough and abrupt on the outside but gooey on the inside, while JJ is sweet on the outside but with (again, IMO!) a steely core and a surprising need to keep people at a distance.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

JJ wasn't in the pilot episode, but her first contact with Elle in episode 2 was dismissive. I'm sure that would have ticked Elle off. 

 

 

JJ was busy, not dismissive.

 

I'm going to be a little wishy-washy and agree with both of you. JJ was busy the first time we saw her, busy and maybe a little harried since she was only making a quick visit to the bullpen on her way to somewhere else, but if you notice the way I do, Elle always has this kind of "The hell?" look on her face while JJ is giving her 'Hey, how're you doing, glad you're here, if you need me I'll be over there, kthxbai' spiel. It's quick, but she looks off to the side for a second at either Morgan or Reid as if to say, "Would one of you get her a cup of decaf, please?" And after that they never really interacted again before Elle left. Going by that one scene, I fanwank that they decided they just didn't have anything in common, so they never made the effort to be more than distantly polite co-workers.

 

 

I would have actually found that dynamic a lot more interesting than Emily/JJ's boring, effortlessly harmonious yet shallow seeming friendship which served to illuminate pretty much nothing about either character.  

 

Thing is, Emily and Elle might have gotten along more organically, and I don't mean that as a slam against JJ. But the original version of Emily, the diplomat's daughter who was uncertain of being accepted and yet determined to be given a place on the team, who later tells Rossi that she was once so desperate to be accepted that she got pregnant as a teenager, seems like she would have a lot in common with a cop's kid who also had the ambition to do well in the Bureau.

 

What always strikes me as odd and at the same time funny is how not at all interested JJ is in Will the first time they meet. When they were at the bar questioning people and he was trying to flirt with her, she could not have been less into it. Which was appropriate since they were on the clock at the time, but when we find out later that they've been dating "in secret" for like a year, its a little bit of a 'huh?' moment. Particularly since almost everyone knew anyway, which makes JJ's near-panic at the thought of Will wanting some kind of acknowledgement of their relationship simultaneously puzzling and vaguely annoying. Putting aside the fact that I've always found Will slightly creepy, JJ's insistence that she didn't get why he wanted her to admit that they were a They, that she didn't know why he needed that, always makes me think of a gender-flipped version of Chris Rock's "If you have not met any of his friends, you are not his girlfriend." Which is probably really unfair of me, but it just seems so weird that that she'd be freaking out over admitting something that everybody was already aware of.

[ForeverAlone]

Well, I think JJ's lack of interest in Will's flirting is because when the character was created, we were never going to see him again. But when the writers decided to write in AJ's pregnancy, they needed to retcon a baby daddy, and there was no other option in previously introduced characters. The whole B plot of "In Heat" was to cover for that storytelling leap they wanted to make, but didn't want to make it seem like JJ was in this open relationship up until then, when there was no hint of JJ being in a relationship in previous episodes.

[Droogie]

Will's new nickname from here going forward, for me, will now be RBC (Retcon Baby Daddy). That's awesome.

[SSAHotchner]

I disagree on JJ and Will's first episode. I did see interest there on both sides. I see very little chemistry there beyond the In Heat episode, though.

[Droogie]

I disagree on JJ and Will's first episode. I did see interest there on both sides. I see very little chemistry there beyond the In Heat episode, though.

I agree. I thought JJ looked a little miffed at the flirting between Will and that other female at the bar.

[amensisterfriend]

As much as I love nearly all of S1-S4---and, unpopularly enough, about half of the widely disliked S7!---I hold the UO of thinking that that very first half of S1 may still be the very best stretch of the entire series, or at least the most consistently rewatchable to me. Ironically enough, the characters and their relationships with one another were actually the most sharply defined and most intriguing to me before we got to see more of them :) Elle and Gideon both added a certain type of edginess and energy to the group dynamic that was never quite replicated IMO, and this is coming from someone who really likes Prentiss and Rossi. The cases and profiling were so fresh then---the writers hadn't yet shared anything with us about criminal behavioral analysis and, sadly, seemed to use up a disproportionate amount of their best ideas, information, factoids etc. in that very first season. Hotch was by far at his most compelling and likable to me in that first season, and his relationship with Reid was so nuanced then in a way that it hasn't even come anywhere close to being since. I miss Elle more and more every time I watch the show. And to amp up the unpopularity...somehow I even love Reid's S1 hair :) 

[Droogie]

Ohmigosh, I love Reid's S1 hair. I handwave that baby Reid was freaked about how wild his hair really was and used a metric ton of product to straighten and tame it. The more confident he became in his abilities within the BAU, the more able he was to simply let his hair do what it would.

After he was in the pool with Lila and his hair dried naturally and he had that chin length bob action going, I was beside myself.

I agree with everything you've said about S1. I'm feeling melancholy about CM this evening. The show should've ended after S5, taking the smattering of great episodes since then and making a S6, leaving on a high note. Kinda like The Police breaking up after six albums. I was kinda heartbroken, but I never had to see them decline.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Droogie

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I even love Reid's S1 hair :) 

 

"Is that a boy's regular?"

[JMO]

Hang in there, Droogie.  Maybe they just had a couple of bad episodes.  

 

I do worry about the show, and it would be easy to think that they've given up trying to produce anything of quality.  It certainly sounds like they have cut the budget, begging the question of whether they realize where this program ranks among their current array of offerings.  

 

But I like to think that there are still one or two of them who have enough pride and respect for their viewers (who have, after all paid their bills for the past ten years) to at least try to strive for excellence.  I can't imagine that it's enjoyable for any of hem, if doing their best isn't the goal.

[SSAHotchner]

I'm exactly where you are, Amensister.

[Droogie]

Hang in there, Droogie.  Maybe they just had a couple of bad episodes.  

 

I do worry about the show, and it would be easy to think that they've given up trying to produce anything of quality.  It certainly sounds like they have cut the budget, begging the question of whether they realize where this program ranks among their current array of offerings.  

 

But I like to think that there are still one or two of them who have enough pride and respect for their viewers (who have, after all paid their bills for the past ten years) to at least try to strive for excellence.  I can't imagine that it's enjoyable for any of hem, if doing their best isn't the goal.

I will try to be optimistic!

I wonder if any of them cringe inwardly at the writing, especially for this last episode. And I wonder if there's any sort of review process -- someone to say, yo, rewrite this mess. And then to say, yo, redirect this mess.

[Droogie]

I don't care what Reid does to his hair. It is brilliant, and beautiful. I loved it when Rossi joined the BAU. I loved it when he joined the BAU. I loved it when it brushed his shoulders, when it was shaved up the sides...

I loved it on the train/I loved it in the rain... wait.

[ForeverAlone]

I loved Reid's hair at the start of season seven. I loved it all throughout season six. I loved his hair at the start of season nine and the end of season 10. I even think it is cute through most of season one before he grew it out. I used to be okay with season 2, 3 and 4 hair, until I saw how smoking hot sexy he is with short hair, and now I just can't abide by it. :) :) :) :)

[Bookish Jen]

I love Reid's hair because it's a part of him and his quirky character (that and mismatched socks). And though I joke that he combs his hair with an egg beater, I say that with affection. I don't think I want to see him with perfectly combed locks.

[BookWoman56]

I’d frankly have less loathing for William Reid if he had been a “sperm donor” who simply skipped out after a one-night stand that resulted in a pregnancy or who filed for divorce immediately after Diana became pregnant. To me, his abandonment of Spencer and Diana is unforgivable because he did it knowing full well that Diana was mentally ill.

I will freely admit this is a hot button topic for me because of personal experience with a similar situation. My former MIL was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia when my ex was around the same age as Spencer when William left; she had been ill for a while and her condition deteriorated to the point where she was a danger to herself and those around her. Former FIL had her placed in a private hospital and then in a public institution when the money ran out. After a year, when the various doctors advised him that she was never going to recover enough to function on her own, much less take care of a child, he filed for divorce and took my ex away to a different city where he had family who could help take care of his child while he worked. It was a tough decision, but from my perspective it was the only responsible decision.

William, OTOH, abandoned his child to the care of someone he knew to be mentally ill. He had options other than just leaving Spencer with Diana. He could have had Diana hospitalized whether she was willing to get treatment or not. As an aside, one major characteristic of paranoid schizophrenia is that the person does not believe himself/herself to be ill, and so frequently the person refuses treatment. So I don’t in any way agree that Diana knew what she was doing when she refused treatment. Instead, William just skipped out, leaving Spencer to the care of someone who could just as easily have killed him through neglect.

IMO, if William wanted a relationship with Spencer after he left, it was his responsibility, not Spencer’s, to maintain that relationship. I cannot imagine in any way that it was incumbent upon Spencer to track down his father so they could continue to have a relationship. When a parent leaves and does not communicate in any way with his or her child, that’s a pretty clear signal the parent does not want to maintain a relationship. It was a difficult situation, but William’s response to it was to put his son in a position where he had to take care of his mother and himself, while William took no responsibility for what happened to Spencer. Whether his intent was only to leave Diana, the reality is that he left both of them. I understand that divorce is often the best solution to a marriage that is no longer viable. But especially when you have spent ten years as a father with your child, to then desert that child to be raised by a mentally ill mother means to me you have lost absolutely any right to call yourself a parent.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I've posted something similar to this before and I'm pretty sure someone reported it as bait. I guess you know your opinion is actually unpopular when it gets reported lol. 

Anyway, I hate it when people call William Reid the 'Sperm Donor'. Yes, he left. Yes, that's his fault. But he was there for 10 years, not just a 'sperm donor' who left when Reid was born. He did do the some dick moves. Not telling Reid where he lived but did Reid even look? I think if Reid looked he would have started by going to his fathers workplace and found that his dad still worked there and they could have still had a relationship.

 

This will likely fail to amaze, but I'm the one who started using the name Sperm Donor. And quite frankly I'd have used something worse if I had been able to think of something worse, but at the time nothing came to mind. :-)

 

When I'm being generous, I'm certain that Diana's illness would have made her very difficult to live with, and that's not even taking into account the business with Gary Michaels and the aftermath of Riley Jenkins' murder. People do have breaking points, and when they reach them, there's little that can be done to go back to the beginning. William reached the end of his rope, and so he left his old life behind. Well and good.

 

However.

 

What kind of father leaves his child behind with a woman he's ninety percent sure can't take care of herself? Not "won't", can't. Diana references Reid having had an uncle Daniel in either The Instincts or Memoriam, and much later in The Lesson he tells Alex that he had an aunt who thought his hair was too long, but Daniel died when Spencer was a little kid, and we never learn if the aunt was his wife or what. Where were these people while Reid was growing up? What kind of adult leaves a young boy in the care of his mentally ill mother without making sure there's someone sane and competent to at least keep the house from burning down around them. We never find out what Diana decided to do once her husband left, only that Spencer had to have her committed once he was old enough to become her legal guardian, and he didn't want to do it, but he did it because it was for the best. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable to think that Reid was the only one willing to do something so unpleasant, but so necessary.

 

As for how much time Spencer had, I suppose that ten years is better than the eight that Elle got with her father, and Morgan's dad was also shot in the line of duty when he was ten. Hotch's father died of cancer at a young age, although Aaron didn't mention how old he and Sean were when that happened. Both of Garcia's parents were killed in a car crash when she was eighteen, and as far as I know JJ's folks are still alive.

 

The difference is, William left because for whatever reason he was at the end of his tether, and if it was because of the schizophrenia or because she knew about Gary Michaels being murdered or because he was just done with all of it isn't relevant to me. And that he agrees with Diana when she calls him weak in one of the flashbacks in Revelations just adds to my contempt, because he doesn't even try to deny it. I doubt that they didn't discuss her illness before she got pregnant, because she tells Spencer that she went off her brain candy until he was born. She gave William a chance to be a parent, to be a man, and he didn't take it.

[normasm]

William didn't leave Reid, he left Diana. He left Diana because she wouldn't take care of herself. I know, she's sick. But sick people still know what they're doing when they refuse to get treatment. I know, he should have given her a chance after taking to her but he had probably talked to her about it a hundred times and tried other things but Diana wouldn't cooperate. Him leaving was probably his last resort and the last thing he wanted to do. 

 

He abandoned Reid. And, since he knew Diana couldn't take care of herself, he knew she couldn't take care of her 10-year-old son. It might have been a different thing if William had left, taking Spencer with him because of Diana's illness, but he abandoned his parental duties, which are not voluntary, they are required. Walking out on a spouse is something one may choose to do, but walking out on a minor child is NOT

Edited October 19, 2015 by normasm

[Cobalt Stargazer]

New UO, and this is a hard admission for me, but God help me I like JJ in Nelson's Sparrow.

 

Spencer's pain at Gideon's death brings tears to my eyes, but I haven't really liked JJ in so long that her lack of sharp edges truly stands out to me. That she's willing to sit on the sidelines with Garcia, eat ice cream and not go jumping all over the place like she's Wonder Woman renders her the softest and most human she's been in ages. This is the version of the character I'd like to see more of.

 

*slinks away*

[Droogie]

I hope this isn't inappropriate, bc I didn't see the edited comment... but Qwerty, I'm sorry you felt you had to delete your post. There's a reason this thread is called "Unpopular Opinions." Just because some of us don't share it doesn't mean you shouldn't voice it. It makes for some good discussion.

[normasm]

Qwerty, I didn't see your comment as inappropriate, just your UO, and I certainly don't see a reason to delete my response to it. These are our opinions. If someone has a problem with what you said (and I didn't, I just disagreed and expressed my opinion), then they should have spoken up in a post rather than report you.

[normasm]

Qwerty, it's all good, as far as I'm concerned. When I post here, I don't expect a greek chorus of response, i'm just posting MO. If all I get is crickets, it means no one agrees, which is fine.

 

Hope you weren't too upset. It is nice here, for the most part.

Edited October 22, 2015 by normasm

[thewhiteowl]

Do not discuss Mod actions in the thread. It will result in a warn or time-out.  If you have a question, PM me, Stacey  or Aethera.

 

[Bookish Jen]

New UO, and this is a hard admission for me, but God help me I like JJ in Nelson's Sparrow.

 

Spencer's pain at Gideon's death brings tears to my eyes, but I haven't really liked JJ in so long that her lack of sharp edges truly stands out to me. That she's willing to sit on the sidelines with Garcia, eat ice cream and not go jumping all over the place like she's Wonder Woman renders her the softest and most human she's been in ages. This is the version of the character I'd like to see more of.

 

*slinks away*

I liked JJ in this episode, too. She seemed more real. And how bad can she be if she likes chocolate chip mint ice cream?

 

Okay, as for Spencer's sperm donor, William. Yes, it was maddening how he skipped out on Spencer after he divorced Diana. Yes, the marriage couldn't survive, but that doesn't give someone carte blanche to complete neglect one's flesh and blood.

 

Which leads me to another question? How were Spencer's needs met during his childhood considering William was MIA and Diana was often lost to her mental illness. Yes, Spencer was a boy genius, but he was still a vulnerable child. Who was around to make sure he got a good meal, took a bath and brushed his teeth? Who looked after him when he was sick? Who took care of the bills, the errands, the household upkeep?

 

And what about Spencer's mental and emotional needs? Who helped him with his homework and met with his teachers? Who listened to him when he wanted to talk about his day and his interests? Who cheered him on in his triumphs or comforted him in his bad times?

 

Did little Spencer have anyone? Did anyone who stepped up to the plate? A relative? A kindly neighbor? A concerned teacher? Yes, Diana loved (and still loves) her son fiercely, but her mental illness often had her completely debilitated. Someone needed to be there for Spencer. I'd love it if we could get a bit of a glimpse on how Spencer was taken care of in some type of secure and stable fashion when he was a child and later, a teenager.

 

It's often been mentioned that the quality we love in Spencer the most is his deep well of empathy. My friend Myra recently posted something at her FB page (and I'm paraphrasing) that we need to be the type of adult that we needed when we were children. This is so true; I'm trying to be this myself. And maybe that's why I feel a connection to Spencer. He appears to be trying to be the adult he needed when he was a child.

 

Okay, I  need to wrap this up because I have tears running down my face. Sorry.

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...we certainly  never got the impression anyone was there to take care of Spencer. I am sure Diana had her good days and at those times, she assumed the typical roles of parenthood. But outside of that, I think he was on his own a lot. I can see William paying all the bills as a way to alleviate his guilt about abandoning his child, but as for the day to day stuff? I doubt Diana was completely gone all the time. But Spencer was probably the epitome of a latchkey kid. His teachers probably took an interest in his academic life, but when Diana was not doing well, I get the impression Spencer was pretty much on his own. Granted he would have only been in that situation for two to three years until he graduated from high school and went off to university.

 

I'm also curious who took care of Diana when Spencer went away to Cal Tech (as he likely did when he was 13). And of course what sort of arrangement was made for him at Cal Tech? I can easily see him being there on a full ride merit scholarship, but there is the little issue of what to do with a young teenager living at school out of state. You would think there was some sort of adult care relationship set up for him.