Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, Jel said:

Okay, so it's less "raised by wolves" more "The boy who cried wolf"? 

I think I get your objections and understand where you are coming from. 

Just throwing this out there, but would 911 calls where a seven year old Bethenny is calling the police because she's afraid her step father is going to kill her mother be enough?  (not saying they exist, just curious if that would rise to the level of proof required to establish she had a really bad childhood).

Well, he already admitted to hitting Bernadette on the show 2 years/seasons ago. Again, I do think she had a tough/rough childhood but I also believe she greatly exaggerated it for sympathy on the show. She uses it so that viewers give her a pass on her ugly behavior and now she is using her divorce/shared custody as her excuse.

[motorcitymom65]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Well, he already admitted to hitting Bernadette on the show 2 years/seasons ago. Again, I do think she had a tough/rough childhood but I also believe she greatly exaggerated it for sympathy on the show. She uses it so that viewers give her a pass on her ugly behavior and now she is using her divorce/shared custody as her excuse.

When has she used her horrible upbringing during her divorce or custody battle? Recently? Like right now with what is going on? Or are we reaching for something she said years ago? 

It seems as those others use it as a reason why she must be a lying liar who lies and want to dismiss her claims against Jason. I see others using her childhood and the things she has said against her during this whole "Jason is a harassing d-bag" drama much more often than I hear anything about it from her. 

Edited July 4, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[WireWrap]

13 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Meanwhile, Beth is enjoying the holiday in probably a spectacular fashion. Enjoying friends, food and probably her fabulous Hampton's House. She is wealthy, I think attractive, seems to be able to attract all the male attention she could want, and she has more success with her business and reality tv ventures than most people could even fathom. And yes there are sad times with the stuff with Jason. And yet she is still a narcissist. How much must she dig the fact that people are literally dragging up things that happened to her when she was 4 or 5 years old, while she enjoys the sun and sips an adult libation. Analyzing every word she has uttered. Every. Single. Word. Pouring through pages of books that she wrote long ago, which might surprise her because with all of the stuff that she has done, she probably doesn't even think much about one book. Yet people are interested enough in what happened to her 40 years ago to dig deep. Really, really deep. Looking for something to prove something. And she doesn't care. Doesn't care if you think she is a liar or not. She is just probably glad that folks are interested enough to keep the talk going. 

Bethenny is a true narcissist, she loves that people are talking about/watching her, good or bad, as long as it is always centered on her.

Just now, motorcitymom65 said:

I don't think she said she was going to do that for sure.  She said she was thinking about it. Considering if it was something that might make sense at some point. Maybe she thought better or it. Maybe it was an emotional thought because she would like Brynn to have some additional family. People often do this. They consider things, weigh the risks and benefits, and then make a decision. 

No, she even gave a timeline, she said that she was going to do it in the fall and that she would invite her ex step-father as well. IMO, she never had any intention to do it, she said it to take the heat off of herself and nothing more.

[BBHN]

Quote

And yes there are sad times with the stuff with Jason

Being stalked and harassed by Jason probably isn't fun at all.

Now, imagine how much less it would be if Jason and Papa Hoppy were stalking her in their underwear ;)

Quote

Bethenny is a true narcissist, she loves that people are talking about/watching her, good or bad, as long as it is always centered on her.

And laughing all the way to the bank, too...

Edited July 4, 2017 by BBHN

[motorcitymom65]

2 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny is a true narcissist, she loves that people are talking about/watching her, good or bad, as long as it is always centered on her.

Yep, she is. They all are. I like Beth, so I say let's keep it going. I am just surprised that folks who dislike her so much want to give her the attention she craves. But then that is what makes it all interesting and keeps me coming back. Probably the same for the rest. 

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

No, she even gave a timeline, she said that she was going to do it in the fall and that she would invite her ex step-father as well. IMO, she never had any intention to do it, she said it to take the heat off of herself and nothing more.

But what "heat"? 

[WireWrap]

24 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

When has she used her horrible upbringing during her divorce or custody battle? Recently? Like right now with what is going on? Or are we reaching for something she said years ago? 

It seems as those others use it as a reason why she must be a lying liar who lies and want to dismiss her claims against Jason. I see others using her childhood and the things she has said against her during this whole "Jason is a harassing d-bag" drama much more often than I hear anything about it from her. 

I didn't say she used her childhood in the custody/divorce battles nor did I imply it. I said that she uses her childhood and/or her custody/divorce battles as deflection for her own ugly behaviors on the HW show.

19 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Yep, she is. They all are. I like Beth, so I say let's keep it going. I am just surprised that folks who dislike her so much want to give her the attention she craves. But then that is what makes it all interesting and keeps me coming back. Probably the same for the rest. 

But what "heat"? 

I don't think that all the HWs are, I think some of them are, like Bethenny, Teresa G, Nene, Kenya, just to name a few but not all of them.

The heat she would get with using Shields "daughter" on the reunion.

[motorcitymom65]

7 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I didn't say she used her childhood in the custody/divorce battles nor did I imply it. I said that she uses her childhood and/or her custody/divorce battles as deflection for her own ugly behaviors on the HW show.

 

Sorry - my bad. I completely read your post wrong about this.

[ZoloftBlob]

Has she referenced her nightmare childhood recently? Like in the current season?

[motorcitymom65]

12 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I don't think that all the HWs are, I think some of them are, like Bethenny, Teresa G, Nene, Kenya, just to name a few but not all of them.

The heat she would get with using Shields "daughter" on the reunion.

Did she get heat from using Shields daughter at the reunion? Not that I saw her as using her. 

This is where I think many of us differ. I don't think Beth cares about what people think of her behavior. If she did, she would change it. She is who she is and it has gotten her very far. I don't see her making excuses or trying to do things to make people see her differently. 

Edited July 4, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

It seems as those others use it as a reason why she must be a lying liar who lies and want to dismiss her claims against Jason. I see others using her childhood and the things she has said against her during this whole "Jason is a harassing d-bag" drama much more often than I hear anything about it from her. 

Agreed, and honestly, if even just a tenth of these tales are true, then I am sorry but Bethenny had a horrific childhood and I have utterly no problem with "I was raised by wolves" coming out of her mouth.

Seriously, the argument here is that Daddy Bobby *tried* by sending a coach class ticket but Mama Bernadette wouldn't let her visit her dad because he didn't send a first class ticket and Beth had a sniffles?

This is yet another level of awful. So Dad reaches out... but Mom won't let her go because she's sick (so it's Beth's fault she can't go) and Dad didn't spring for first class (The message being Dad doesn't love Beth enough to make it happen)

[WireWrap]

39 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Sorry - my bad. I completely read your post wrong about this.

No problem, it happens to all of us. It is easy to misunderstand others post. 

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Meanwhile, Beth is enjoying the holiday in probably a spectacular fashion. Enjoying friends, food and probably her fabulous Hampton's House. She is wealthy, I think attractive, seems to be able to attract all the male attention she could want, and she has more success with her business and reality tv ventures than most people could even fathom. And yes there are sad times with the stuff with Jason. And yet she is still a narcissist. How much must she dig the fact that people are literally dragging up things that happened to her when she was 4 or 5 years old, while she enjoys the sun and sips an adult libation. Analyzing every word she has uttered. Every. Single. Word. Pouring through pages of books that she wrote long ago, which might surprise her because with all of the stuff that she has done, she probably doesn't even think much about one book. Yet people are interested enough in what happened to her 40 years ago to dig deep. Really, really deep. Looking for something to prove something. And she doesn't care. Doesn't care if you think she is a liar or not. She is just probably glad that folks are interested enough to keep the talk going. 

Oh, how I bet the rest of them wish that folks were interested enough in them to dig so deep to find that one nugget of something that doesn't look quite right to create so much interest. Beth really is the winner in this whole game. 

Hell no. It is my worst nightmare actually. Skeletons and all.

and she cares. 

[WireWrap]

38 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Did she get heat from using Shields daughter at the reunion? Not that I saw her as using her. 

This is where I think many of us differ. I don't think Beth cares about what people think of her behavior. If she did, she would change it. She is who she is and it has gotten her very far. I don't see her making excuses or trying to do things to make people see her differently. 

Yes, she did get heat over that stunt. And for all her I don't care crap, she does care and she cares a lot. If she didn't care, she would not have come back on the show to begin with BUT here she is! LOL

6 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Agreed, and honestly, if even just a tenth of these tales are true, then I am sorry but Bethenny had a horrific childhood and I have utterly no problem with "I was raised by wolves" coming out of her mouth.

Seriously, the argument here is that Daddy Bobby *tried* by sending a coach class ticket but Mama Bernadette wouldn't let her visit her dad because he didn't send a first class ticket and Beth had a sniffles?

This is yet another level of awful. So Dad reaches out... but Mom won't let her go because she's sick (so it's Beth's fault she can't go) and Dad didn't spring for first class (The message being Dad doesn't love Beth enough to make it happen)

Who here has said that Bethenny is at fault because her mother stopped her from going to see her dad? I haven't seen anyone post that or even imply it. What I have seen is people questioning if her stories are truthful or if she embellishes them for effect/if she is lying to gain sympathy.

[motorcitymom65]

9 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Agreed, and honestly, if even just a tenth of these tales are true, then I am sorry but Bethenny had a horrific childhood and I have utterly no problem with "I was raised by wolves" coming out of her mouth.

Seriously, the argument here is that Daddy Bobby *tried* by sending a coach class ticket but Mama Bernadette wouldn't let her visit her dad because he didn't send a first class ticket and Beth had a sniffles?

This is yet another level of awful. So Dad reaches out... but Mom won't let her go because she's sick (so it's Beth's fault she can't go) and Dad didn't spring for first class (The message being Dad doesn't love Beth enough to make it happen)

It's a whole level of mind fucking among adults that puts the kid in the middle. It works on you slowly. Any one thing doesn't seem that bad. Like the example of Jason calling Beth "Bernadette". It's not one thing, it's all the things, some of them that seem inconsequential, that add up over time. 

[LIMOM]

Wtf is that first class ticket business?

[zoeysmom]

29 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

 

29 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I didn't say she used her childhood in the custody/divorce battles nor did I imply it. I said that she uses her childhood and/or her custody/divorce battles as deflection for her own ugly behaviors on the HW show.

I don't think that all the HWs are, I think some of them are, like Bethenny, Teresa G, Nene, Kenya, just to name a few but not all of them.

The heat she would get with using Shields "daughter" on the reunion.

Well Bethenny kind of does use her parents in the criminal case.  According to Carole, Bethenny comes unhinged when she is referred to as Bernadette,  Jason apparently references Bernadette as a reason Bethenny was estranged/separated from Bobby Frankel growing up.  One of the elements is the defendant should have reasonably known that such conduct would cause material harm to the mental or emotional health to Bethenny.

20 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Did she get heat from using Shields daughter at the reunion? Not that I saw her as using her. 

This is where I think many of us differ. I don't think Beth cares about what people think of her behavior. If she did, she would change it. She is who she is and it has gotten her very far. I don't see her making excuses or trying to do things to make people see her differently. 

There were several mentions about the inappropriateness of Bethenny using the daughter of her married boyfriend to defend her married boyfriend's marital status.  They references appeared in blogs and comments even on PTV.  Not agreeing doesn't mean they don't exist.  One thing I always kind of liked about Bethenny is she was respectful of the other ladies' children. 

I would differ with that assertion Bethenny doesn't care what others think of her behavior.  She did a 180 on Sonja twice, the first time when Sonja finally produced her clothing line and the second time after saying she would never speak to Sonja again, she went so far as to re-friend her.  There is a scene coming up when thick tongued drunken Dorinda claims everyone is tired of Luann talking about her marriage.  Bethenny, who did talk a lot about Luann, her marriage and Tom, says she doesn't think so and Dorinda claims Bethenny did an about face.  From the tone in her blogs I do believe she has realized that bashing Luann and Tom and their marriage has run its course and I think much of that comes from blogger after blogger expressing enough about Tom.   

Bethenny does want people to respect her, I haven't seen much of "Shark Tank" but I would be interested to see how she behaves around those whose accomplishments and wealth are much greater.  Will she dial it down, or will she make a bunch of sex jokes and motor mouth her way through the various presentations?  I am going to go out on a limb and say I do think Bethenny is smart enough to see there is more than one way to do things in the business world.   

[motorcitymom65]

2 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, she did get heat over that stunt. And for all her I don't care crap, she does care and she cares a lot. If she didn't care, she would not have come back on the show to begin with BUT here she is! LOL

Who here has said that Bethenny is at fault because her mother stopped her from going to see her dad? I haven't seen anyone post that or even imply it. What I have seen is people questioning if her stories are truthful or if she embellishes them for effect/if she is lying to gain sympathy.

I think she cares about making money, getting publicity for her brand, and being in the public eye. Like all of these HW's. They are all addicted to being in the public. It is a rare gal indeed that can give it all up after having a sip from the cup of small time fame. I just don't think she cares if people think she is horrible. If she did, she would behave in a way that more people think is not horrible. She reads her own press.  She would pull a Camille or something. Why would she change anything about herself at this point? It has worked out quite well for her. 

 

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

 

Well Bethenny kind of does use her parents in the criminal case.  According to Carole, Bethenny comes unhinged when she is referred to as Bernadette,  Jason apparently references Bernadette as a reason Bethenny was estranged/separated from Bobby Frankel growing up.  One of the elements is the defendant should have reasonably known that such conduct would cause material harm to the mental or emotional health to Bethenny.

Sounds to me like Jason was using her parents against her in his communications. I don't see Beth doing that. Is she reacting? Yes. But he is the one using it against her. 

[motorcitymom65]

4 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

There were several mentions about the inappropriateness of Bethenny using the daughter of her married boyfriend to defend her married boyfriend's marital status.  They references appeared in blogs and comments even on PTV.  Not agreeing doesn't mean they don't exist.  One thing I always kind of liked about Bethenny is she was respectful of the other ladies' children. 

Oh, I see now about the "heat". I didn't get it. I thought that maybe Dennis, his wife, or his daughter took issue with it. You mean "heat" as in people around here and on other forums. Because that is something that bothers Beth tremendously. Like when she took heat for calling Lu a "whore", and then has gone on about the business this year of continuing to point out instances of Lu's behavior that reinforce the narrative that she likes to get it on whenever and however she can. Doesn't seem much like the "heat" that she takes from folks on the internet bothers her very much. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Who here has said that Bethenny is at fault because her mother stopped her from going to see her dad?

Sorry - this wasn't directed at a poster. In the incident described, of the plane ticket - the mindfuck is that Bethenny's mom stopped her from seeing her father because Bethenny was sick and the ticket was coach and Bernedette wasn't allowing child Bethenny to fly with the sniffles in coach. This is Bernadette putting the ruined trip and failure to see Dad all on Bethenny - if Bethenny hadn't been sick, Bethenny could have seen her father but Bethenny was sick so Bethenny is to blame. This is Crazyparent Child logic 101.

With the added bonus that Bernedette also gets to plant the seed of "Daddy doesn't love you enough to pay for first class, that's how little he wants to see you" in Beth's head.

This example is being used as a way to argue that Beth's dad was actually involved. I am pointing out the toxic issues actually threaded all throughout the incident that would have ultimately left child Bethenny with the idea that it was her fault her dad didn't see her. She could have gone if she wasn't sick, so it's her fault, and Mom adds the extra 'you could have gone if Daddy had bought a first class ticket but he only loves you enough for coach' so guess who's fault that is?

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think she cares about making money, getting publicity for her brand, and being in the public eye. Like all of these HW's. They are all addicted to being in the public. It is a rare gal indeed that can give it all up after having a sip from the cup of small time fame. I just don't think she cares if people think she is horrible. If she did, she would behave in a way that more people think is not horrible. She reads her own press.  She would pull a Camille or something. Why would she change anything about herself at this point? It has worked out quite well for her. 

Yes, she cares about making money and she now realizes that her SKG sales are tied directly to the HW show and Bravo. Bethenny believes that bad press is better than no press. I also believe that Bethenny thinks she is fine as she is and doesn't need to change, which is why I don't believe that she has ever taken therapy seriously or that she has ever tried to change herself, even for Bryn's sake. 

[LIMOM]

2 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, she cares about making money and she now realizes that her SKG sales are tied directly to the HW show and Bravo. Bethenny believes that bad press is better than no press. I also believe that Bethenny thinks she is fine as she is and doesn't need to change, which is why I don't believe that she has ever taken therapy seriously or that she has ever tried to change herself, even for Bryn's sake. 

While she cares about her bottom line, she also cares how other sees her as an individual, imo.

As far as the daughter actually calling the show, it has been advanced that it was an actress.

This being lightly scripted tv, it actually makes sense.

[KungFuBunny]

14 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

But she did "correct the lie Bravo was selling us about her parents" in 2011 when she wrote her book, four years into being a Real Housewife.  

I feel like I am repeating myself here .... am I typing in invisible ink or something?  :P

I think since you are writing with a SKG pen - it may cause some to see Red (Bethenny's signature color)

When I get to the end of this thread, will I see more free balling Floppy Grand Hoppy Poppy posts?

[motorcitymom65]

3 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

While she cares about her bottom line, she also cares how other sees her as an individual, imo.

As far as the daughter actually calling the show, it has been advanced that it was an actress.

This being lightly scripted tv, it actually makes sense.

Really, who advanced this? I hadn't heard this outside of this forum. I would be completely surprised to hear that the wife, and the daughter, sat quietly by and let this happen. If the wife did, then that says a lot about her. I admire that she has kept quiet during all of the press around Dennis and Beth, but if she let that happen, I would question many things about her. 

Edited July 4, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Sorry - this wasn't directed at a poster. In the incident described, of the plane ticket - the mindfuck is that Bethenny's mom stopped her from seeing her father because Bethenny was sick and the ticket was coach and Bernedette wasn't allowing child Bethenny to fly with the sniffles in coach. This is Bernadette putting the ruined trip and failure to see Dad all on Bethenny - if Bethenny hadn't been sick, Bethenny could have seen her father but Bethenny was sick so Bethenny is to blame. This is Crazyparent Child logic 101.

With the added bonus that Bernedette also gets to plant the seed of "Daddy doesn't love you enough to pay for first class, that's how little he wants to see you" in Beth's head.

This example is being used as a way to argue that Beth's dad was actually involved. I am pointing out the toxic issues actually threaded all throughout the incident that would have ultimately left child Bethenny with the idea that it was her fault her dad didn't see her. She could have gone if she wasn't sick, so it's her fault, and Mom adds the extra 'you could have gone if Daddy had bought a first class ticket but he only loves you enough for coach' so guess who's fault that is?

Or is this Bethenny spinning a simple story into something it wasn't? Does anyone know if Bethenny really never saw her father, at all after she came back to live with her mother or are some just believing everything she claims/says? Initially she, Bethenny, tried to sell that she had no contact with him during her childhood but eventually someone found out that Bethenny did live with her dad again when she was a teen. 

4 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

While she cares about her bottom line, she also cares how other sees her as an individual, imo.

As far as the daughter actually calling the show, it has been advanced that it was an actress.

This being lightly scripted tv, it actually makes sense.

Yes, that phone call sounded/felt rehearsed but there was never any proof that it was. 

The show isn't "scripted", staged, Yes, scripted No.

[motorcitymom65]

8 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, she cares about making money and she now realizes that her SKG sales are tied directly to the HW show and Bravo. Bethenny believes that bad press is better than no press. I also believe that Bethenny thinks she is fine as she is and doesn't need to change, which is why I don't believe that she has ever taken therapy seriously or that she has ever tried to change herself, even for Bryn's sake. 

I do think that being on this show has helped her brand. Having said that, I read time and time again where folks liked her before, but don't like her since she has come back. Yet her brand has thrived even more since she came back. Which says to me that she can be the person that she is, and still sell stuff. So what makes anyone think that she is trying to garner sympathy to get herself out of a jam? That is what doesn't make sense, and that seems to be the narrative for the most part. That she uses her past to gain sympathy and to make herself look better. What evidence is there that she wants to look better or different? Looking like the person she is seems to be working very well for her in terms of her ultimate objective, which is to sell more shit. 

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Really, who advanced this? I hadn't heard this outside of this forum. I would be completely surprised to hear that the wife, and the daughter, sat quietly by and let this happen. If the wife did, then that says a lot about her. I admire that she has kept quiet during all of the press around Dennis and Beth, but if she let that happen, I would question many things about her. 

I, for one, don't believe it was really his daughter and it did sound rehearsed. I can see why Jill Shields wouldn't say anything if she knew it was faked and that it did not involve 1 of her daughters because it could very well open a door that she doesn't want open, that being the press/tabloids getting into their family problems. And, I don't think Shields would have a problem with Bethenny faking that call, I think he would think it a joke/not something to take seriously because he was in on it.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Does anyone know if Bethenny really never saw her father, at all after she came back to live with her mother or are some just believing everything she claims/says?

In fairness, I am not the one using this example as proof Bethenny's dad was more involved in her life than she stated. I'm merely pointing out how this incident, as described, is pretty toxic for a child to go thru. If it actually happened - and I forget who brought it up as an argument that Bethenny was lying - I'm just pointing out that it's actually a much worse story than Bethenny's dad just not having contact, it's a toxic example of how two adults used a child as an arguing point and damaged the child in the process.

If you now want to argue that this incident - part of the proof that Bethenny is lying about no contact with her dad - didn't happen, go ahead.

[LIMOM]

8 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Really, who advanced this? I hadn't heard this outside of this forum. I would be completely surprised to hear that the wife, and the daughter, sat quietly by and let this happen. If the wife did, then that says a lot about her. I admire that she has kept quiet during all of the press around Dennis and Beth, but if she let that happen, I would question many things about her. 

I read it on one of the trashy blog.

tamara tattles or another.

[zoeysmom]

6 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

While she cares about her bottom line, she also cares how other sees her as an individual, imo.

As far as the daughter actually calling the show, it has been advanced that it was an actress.

This being lightly scripted tv, it actually makes sense.

I would agree with this 100%, and since this is the Bethenny/Jason thread the reoccurring insult/threat Behtenny brings up about Jason is his threatening or promising to expose and destroy her public image.  She claims it causes her material harm to her mental or emotional health. 

One can't have it both ways that they don't care about what others think of them and then assert they are being tortured by someone who calls out her bad behavior and has indicated they will expose additional behavior.

As to Shields' daughter she sounded foolish.  Her claim that her dad had back surgery in July and she didn't see Bethenny sneaking into see him in the family home.  I do think it was scripted as far as saying something that sounds like Bethenny. 

[motorcitymom65]

7 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I, for one, don't believe it was really his daughter and it did sound rehearsed. I can see why Jill Shields wouldn't say anything if she knew it was faked and that it did not involve 1 of her daughters because it could very well open a door that she doesn't want open, that being the press/tabloids getting into their family problems. And, I don't think Shields would have a problem with Bethenny faking that call, I think he would think it a joke/not something to take seriously because he was in on it.

I cannot see it. There is nothing that I can possibly imagine that would make me sit quietly by if a woman went on TV to justify her relationship with my estranged husband by using my daughter like that. It is simply something that I cannot fathom. And if I didn't want to be quoted, you can be double goddamned sure I would pull a Jason Hoppy and find someone to get that out there. Not someone on TT, but someone interviewed to get the truth out there. Because the very notion that someone would use my daughter like that is beyond vile if in fact true. Vile for Beth to do it, but more so for her mother to sit by and just let it happen. It's not Beth's job to protect the girl, but it is her mothers job. 

Edited July 4, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[KungFuBunny]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

Okay, so it's less "raised by wolves" more "The boy who cried wolf"? 

I think I get your objections and understand where you are coming from. 

Just throwing this out there, but would 911 calls where a seven year old Bethenny is calling the police because she's afraid her step father is going to kill her mother be enough?  (not saying they exist, just curious if that would rise to the level of proof required to establish she had a really bad childhood).

I think we should throw “Chicken Little” into the mix – you know with the whole The Sky Is Falling! The Sky Is Falling!

 

Oh, look John Mahdessian Sultan Of Stain sighting

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I do think that being on this show has helped her brand. Having said that, I read time and time again where folks liked her before, but don't like her since she has come back. Yet her brand has thrived even more since she came back. Which says to me that she can be the person that she is, and still sell stuff. So what makes anyone think that she is trying to garner sympathy to get herself out of a jam? That is what doesn't make sense, and that seems to be the narrative for the most part. That she uses her past to gain sympathy and to make herself look better. What evidence is there that she wants to look better or different? Looking like the person she is seems to be working very well for her in terms of her ultimate objective, which is to sell more shit. 

Bethenny has a lot of die hard fans from her initial HW days and she has won new fans these past few years since coming back. Bethenny needs this show to keep her sales going.

As for me saying that she uses her childhood/divorce for sympathy. Watch when she (or Carole) bring it up, it is normally shortly after she goes off on someone. It is a reminder to the viewers that she is volatile because of these things that happened to her. She doesn't know how to behave in polite society because she was raised by wolves, she goes in for the kill over stupid shit because she was in a horrible marriage and had the worst divorce in history. Hell, she said as much last season when she tried to downplay her attack on Luann at Dorinda's Berkshire home, she said that she was under so much pressure and in a bad mood because of her divorce from hell. LOL

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Just throwing this out there, but would 911 calls where a seven year old Bethenny is calling the police because she's afraid her step father is going to kill her mother be enough?  (not saying they exist, just curious if that would rise to the level of proof required to establish she had a really bad childhood).

All I know is that every time I point out that examples cited from Bethenny's childhood to prove she's lying about not having contact with her dad are filled with examples of how shitty her parents behaved, I'm then told we can't possibly know if these examples are true.

As for me? If a tenth of these stories are true, then Bethenny had a really bad childhood.

[WireWrap]

11 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

In fairness, I am not the one using this example as proof Bethenny's dad was more involved in her life than she stated. I'm merely pointing out how this incident, as described, is pretty toxic for a child to go thru. If it actually happened - and I forget who brought it up as an argument that Bethenny was lying - I'm just pointing out that it's actually a much worse story than Bethenny's dad just not having contact, it's a toxic example of how two adults used a child as an arguing point and damaged the child in the process.

If you now want to argue that this incident - part of the proof that Bethenny is lying about no contact with her dad - didn't happen, go ahead.

But I didn't see anyone here blame Bethenny for anything her parents may have done. I have seen others, including myself, say that they don't believe everything Bethenny says about her parents. This is where the disconnect is in this debate is IMO, no one is saying that IF what Bethenny is claiming is true isn't/wasn't awful for Bethenny or any child to go through, it would be. What we are saying is that we do not believe her to begin with or that we believe she is greatly exaggerating/embellishing things to tip/keep the narrative in her favor no matter what the truth may be. 

5 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I cannot see it. There is nothing that I can possibly imagine that would make me sit quietly by if a woman went on TV to justify her relationship with my estranged husband by using my daughter like that. It is simply something that I cannot fathom. And if I didn't want to be quoted, you can be double goddamned sure I would pull a Jason Hoppy and find someone to get that out there. Not someone on TT, but someone interviewed to get the truth out there. Because the very notion that someone would use my daughter like that is beyond vile if in fact true. Vile for Beth to do it, but more so for her mother to sit by and just let it happen. It's not Beth's job to protect the girl, but it is her mothers job. 

But that is you, not Jill Shields. Some people prefer their privacy over giving the tabloids more fuel for their papers and opening the door for these creeps to seek out her "supposed" daughter themselves.

[ZoloftBlob]

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What we are saying is that we do not believe her to begin with or that we believe she is greatly exaggerating/embellishing things to tip/keep the narrative in her favor no matter what the truth may be. 

What do you think isn't true? I mean you are stating "we do not believe her to begin with" - so what are things you don't believe happened?

Edited July 4, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[motorcitymom65]

1 minute ago, WireWrap said:

But that is you, not Jill Shields. Some people prefer their privacy over giving the tabloids more fuel for their papers and opening the door for these creeps to seek out her "supposed" daughter themselves.

Maybe, but if true, shame on her. 

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, ZoloftBlob said:

What do you think isn't true? I mean you are stating "we do not believe her to begin with" - so what are things you don't believe happened?

I believe that Bethenny takes a kernel of truth and twists it into something else to suit her purposes. Again, I do think she had a tough/rough childhood but I don't believe her dad shut her out of his life, I believe her mother was/is mentally ill but I don't believe she was an uncaring/unloving/unsupportive parent all the time, just for starters.

[BBHN]

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Hell no. It is my worst nightmare actually. Skeletons and all.

I think @motorcitymom65 was referring to the other HWs. Not people in general.

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Yes, she cares about making money and she now realizes that her SKG sales are tied directly to the HW show and Bravo.

I think it's more her wanting to build her brand as much as possible while she still has the window of reality TV show fame.

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When I get to the end of this thread, will I see more free balling Floppy Grand Hoppy Poppy posts?

Nobody wants to see free balling Floppy Grand Hoppy Poppy!

Oh, you said posts. Carry on.

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As far as the daughter actually calling the show, it has been advanced that it was an actress.

Where did it say that?

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All I know is that every time I point out that examples cited from Bethenny's childhood to prove she's lying about not having contact with her dad are filled with examples of how shitty her parents behaved, I'm then told we can't possibly know if these examples are true.

Examples are only true if they support your own POV ;)

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Maybe, but if true, shame on her. 

No, it is a decision that she had to make that was not only right for her but for her family. IMO, responding to any of this would be opening doors to the press/tabloids/bloggers that should be kept closed. If it wasn't her daughter, as some suspect, why feed the creeps any info that could lead to more problems? It wasn't Jill Shields that pulled that stunt, it was Bethenny, so why should JS have to answer to/clarify anything that Bethenny did? Again, in doing so it would only open the doors to her/her children's private lives to further scrutiny. 

[BBHN]

Just for you, @KungFuBunny

 

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by BBHN

[ZoloftBlob]

I'm asking for specific examples of where people think Bethenny is lying about her relationship with her parents,  not a vague "there's a kernel of truth but Bethenny twists it"

[zoeysmom]

55 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Really, who advanced this? I hadn't heard this outside of this forum. I would be completely surprised to hear that the wife, and the daughter, sat quietly by and let this happen. If the wife did, then that says a lot about her. I admire that she has kept quiet during all of the press around Dennis and Beth, but if she let that happen, I would question many things about her. 

We have never heard boo from Jill Shields.  There are other sites where people claim to know the one of the Shields' daughter that prattle on about Bethenny and Dennis' relationship. I take it with a grain of salt.  I figure the Shields are like Jason and don't want any attention to their family and separation. 

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I'm asking for specific examples of where people think Bethenny is lying about her relationship with her parents,  not a vague "there's a kernel of truth but Bethenny twists it"

Bethenny claimed her father abandoned her, he didn't, we know she lived with him in her teens. So that makes me suspect that she spend time with him before then as well. That her mother never threw her a birthday party, she did and showed pictures to prove it. Why does Bethenny need to lie about anything to begin with? If her childhood was that bad, the truth will show it to the world but when you lie, the exposed lies make people then ask what else you are lying about. 

[ZoloftBlob]

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Bethenny claimed her father abandoned her, he didn't, we know she lived with him in her teens.

But, that you choose to interpret abandon as "if she spent any time with him she's lying" doesn't mean she didn't feel abandoned, and it doesn't mean other people interpret it differently. I have no issues with her abandoned statement - she didn't see her father for the majority of her childhood. I call that abandoned. I mean we all agree he dumped her off on Bernadette at five and then as a teen so at least eight years later, she may have lived with him for a short period. I'm really good with considering eight years of no dad as "abandoned".

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her mother never threw her a birthday party, she did and showed pictures to prove it.

I grant you that one but honestly there's so many things about Bernadette that appear to be true. Are you suggesting this one party wipes out everything?

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Why does Bethenny need to lie about anything to begin with?

Well, she says she was abandoned by her father as a child, and all indications show he did indeed hand her over to her alcoholic mom at age five but she did briefly live with as a teen and people are calling her a liar about being abandoned so....

Maybe she's not lying?

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If her childhood was that bad, the truth will show it to the world but when you lie, the exposed lies make people then ask what else you are lying about. 

Trust me, Bethenny's less than charming personality and social interactions pretty much scream to the world that her childhood was that bad. But her dad did dump her off at age five with her mom who is an alcoholic and who has mental health issues (and seriously, he has the kid for a year and then just walked away, that's heartbreaking). Her stepdad  did say the environment was crummy and did say Bethenny's mom never wanted a child, and the airline ticket incident cited as Bethenny's dad caring amounts to her mom keeping her away from her dad over a petty point.

Just because you believe Bethenny is lying, that doesn't actually mean she's lying. And trust me, I don't believe every word that Bethenny utters, she can be incredibly self serving, but everything about her adult personality tells me that her childhood was not peaches and cream and that "raised by wolves" seems fair.

[Leroux]

Bethenny didn't live with her father on her teens, Bethenny lived with her mother and stepfather all throughout her HS years in a boarding school but she probably had to comply with visitations of some sort, much like most kids of divorced couples have to do. By the time she was 18/19 and just graduated from HS her mother and Parisella split out and got divorced, Parisella walked away and this is what Bethenny was mad at him for, even though he was not the biological father, that is the position that Bethenny gave him and he just walked away leaving her with Bernadette. Bethenny has always said that she had more of an emotional connection with John than her mother or father, economically they provided for her but emotionally not so much. 

Bethenny wanted to try her hand at acting and her father was on the West Coast so that is when she reunited with him, he allowed her to live in his house, his girlfriend was almost the same age as Bethenny so they got along well, but as far as her father there was no attempt on his part to have any kind of meaningful relationship with Bethenny, no emotional connection so after living with him for a short while she got her own place and got on with her short-lived acting career, these are the time when she was a nanny for the Hilton sisters.   

While there might be an occasional picture of Bethenny with a birthday cake, we do not know if this is just a fluke, something threw together at the last moment, maybe it pales in comparison to what her classmates had and that is how Bethenny remembers it. Bethenny has said that while everybody went back home for vacation, she rather go to her friend Terry's house. That speaks volumes to me. 

If what Bethenny has mentioned is not enough, the proof is in the interviews that Bernadette has given, she is vicious, her words speak loud and clear more than anything Bethenny has ever said. 

[zoeysmom]

24 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Bethenny claimed her father abandoned her, he didn't, we know she lived with him in her teens. So that makes me suspect that she spend time with him before then as well. That her mother never threw her a birthday party, she did and showed pictures to prove it. Why does Bethenny need to lie about anything to begin with? If her childhood was that bad, the truth will show it to the world but when you lie, the exposed lies make people then ask what else you are lying about. 

I feel for Bethenny because she shares a birthday with her mom.  My parents have the same birthday and my mom is a twin.  No matter what we would do for the three of them, no one's birthday was theirs.

As to Bethenny and her parents.  I get that she loves being unbridled in telling her truth.  Her comments about her parents were not positive.  Later we learned the estrangement between she and her mom was over Bethenny damaging her mom's car.   Much like her escape to boarding school when she wrecked her step-father's Porsche.  These are Bethenny accounts.

So fast forward ten years and the estrangement is real.  All the parties have their lives their careers and all of a sudden Bethenny is given a public forum.  The raised by wolves comment reverberates back to the parents.  Does Bethenny have the right to express her perception-absolutely.  What was unfair to the parents is they were all gainfully employed and had their lives and now all of sudden twenty years after Bethenny became an adult they are held to answer to her allegations.  Bethenny of all people should understand about personal brand.  Her mother complained it affected her teaching position, her father turned her away on his death bed citing Bethenny's disrespect (they made up days before he died).  Her parents didn't sign up to become reality TV public figures by default.   

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, BBHN said:

I think @motorcitymom65 was referring to the other HWs. Not people in general.

I think it's more her wanting to build her brand as much as possible while she still has the window of reality TV show fame.

Nobody wants to see free balling Floppy Grand Hoppy Poppy!

Oh, you said posts. Carry on.

Where did it say that?

Examples are only true if they support your own POV ;)

Some physical therapy - strolling in the park

[WireWrap]

5 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

But, that you choose to interpret abandon as "if she spent any time with him she's lying" doesn't mean she didn't feel abandoned, and it doesn't mean other people interpret it differently. I have no issues with her abandoned statement - she didn't see her father for the majority of her childhood. I call that abandoned. I mean we all agree he dumped her off on Bernadette at five and then as a teen so at least eight years later, she may have lived with him for a short period. I'm really good with considering eight years of no dad as "abandoned".

I grant you that one but honestly there's so many things about Bernadette that appear to be true. Are you suggesting this one party wipes out everything?

Well, she says she was abandoned by her father as a child, and all indications show he did indeed hand her over to her alcoholic mom at age five but she did briefly live with as a teen and people are calling her a liar about being abandoned so....

Maybe she's not lying?

Trust me, Bethenny's less than charming personality and social interactions pretty much scream to the world that her childhood was that bad. But her dad did dump her off at age five with her mom who is an alcoholic and who has mental health issues (and seriously, he has the kid for a year and then just walked away, that's heartbreaking). Her stepdad  did say the environment was crummy and did say Bethenny's mom never wanted a child, and the airline ticket incident cited as Bethenny's dad caring amounts to her mom keeping her away from her dad over a petty point.

Just because you believe Bethenny is lying, that doesn't actually mean she's lying. And trust me, I don't believe every word that Bethenny utters, she can be incredibly self serving, but everything about her adult personality tells me that her childhood was not peaches and cream and that "raised by wolves" seems fair.

We do not know if Bethenny spent anytime with him between the age of 4/5 thru to her teens. Maybe he came out to visit/spend time with her instead of fighting her mom to allow her to fly to see him, maybe he did nothing to see her. Bottom line, we just don't know and I have difficulty accepting her word given her propensity to exaggerate. We only have her side of this and without hearing both/all sides it is impossible to accept her word because of her exaggerations. Oh, and No, I don't expect Bethenny to give us every little detail but she needs to tell the complete story if she is going to tell it. 

As for her mom, I do think Bernadette suffered from mental problems, most likely tried to self medicate with drugs/alcohol and was a nightmare to live with most of the time. Where Bethenny loses me is that she picked something trivial, bd parties, to lie about and she can't seem to find compassion for someone suffering from mental problems even as an adult. I can understand being hurt that your mother couldn't get it together to be a better parent but it's not like she didn't have a medical reason for her bizarre/bad behaviors. Bethenny acknowledges her mom's mental illness but shows no compassion about it. As a child, no, she would not have understood this but as an adult she would, there is no excuse IMO. And Yes, knowing she had mental problems doesn't erase the pain/trauma a child felt but it helps explain why things happened and soften things for the now adult child.

IMO, Bethenny was born a Narcissist, her lying is as natural to her as breathing air is to life. And Lying is lying.

[BBHN]

2 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Some physical therapy - strolling in the park

Well, they do put the Hop in Hoppy, don't they...

[Celia Rubenstein]

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I think that Bethenny today has the experience and ability to control her image,

 

5 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

So, the sex-obsessed, bitter, shrieking harpy persona is on purpose?

Those are your words for her.  Obviously you don't like her.  I think a more objective description of Bethenny's persona might be "controversial."  But to answer your question, no ... I don't think it is an accident. 

Bethenny has managed to make herself so controversial that even people who purport to hate her still clearly find her absolutely fascinating.  They follow her every step, monitor and dissect every word she says, analyze her childhood, pour through her books, etc etc (just as @Motorcitymom described above).   It is this fervor created by her detractors that makes her such a success on the show.  And the show keeps her in the spotlight.  And the spotlight helps keep Skinnygirl in business. 

There is a lot of money to be made off having people think you are a "sex-obsessed, bitter, shrieking harpy," lol. Throw in a few people who actually do like you and pretty soon you are laughing yourself all the way to the bank.

A reputation as someone who makes dirty jokes and yells at people is a small price to pay for everything it has brought Bethenny.  I wouldn't expect her to change any time soon.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein