S05.E03: The Death of Vibe

[Trini]

Forgot to say that I also really liked Nora's little 'Flashtime' thinking moment (paralleling Barry); and they should have more of that, in general, for the speedsters. Also liked that Nora looked to Iris for approval right after, showing that there's at least some respect there; so the Iris/Nora future relationship can't be all that terrible. Hopefully, next episode they shed some light on that.
 

On 10/25/2018 at 8:19 AM, Jediknight said:

Rewatching the ending scene between Nora and Sherloque, and he drops his accent for a moment, and goes into Wellsobard voice.  He says "The temptation" in his Sherloque accent, but "was too much I'm sure" was completely in his Wellsobard voice.  A hint that Sherloque isn't what he claims to be?

All the Wellses seem to be untrustworthy or liars to varying degrees, but I think that may be more about Tom C. being inconsistent than a plot point.

[mtlchick]

Good and bad watching this on Netflix in Canada now.  Good: no ads!  Bad: I fall behind faster and I only catch up on weekends.

 

While I appreciate that this Wells was French Canadian and used some local slang (also, poutine!), Tom's constant in and out French accent was bad, especially since he lived in Quebec for a while and studied the language.  

But at the last scene with Nora where he implies that it wasn't her idea about helping about the satellite but was sort of forced into it makes me believe that it's a previous Wells (maybe H.R) that  figured out what happened and switched places with another version.  

 

I'm also feeling that Cicada's anger towards metas and the "obvious" link to his kid is a misdirection.  At least I hope so.  

[Jacks-Son]

On 10/23/2018 at 6:12 PM, bettername2come said:

Liked Sherloque revealing Ralph the tall, sensitive man and/or baby giraffe who just solved the mystery of the stolen Chevy Impala. I liked German Wells repeatedly calling Nora Kid Flash. No matter what character Tom Cavanagh is playing, he and Carlos Valdes always seem to be having fun together.

Loved the baby Giraffe description, especially the moment when Sherloque benched Ralph and told him to eat the leaves above his head a la Giraffe. Funny.  Also, love Cisco's initial reaction to Herr Wells...."Wait for it....".  Those two play off each other very well.  While I like Cisco, I'm not a huge fan of the way the character is written.  Cisco has become the series, physical manifestation of a Deus ex Machina.  Trotted out whenever the writers have written themselves into a corner.

I don't remember, DID Iris have a tattoo of Eddie on her arm? I liked Sherloque's sage deductions.  I'm also bored with the Caitlin plot and I hope it pays off just not more wheel spinning.

Iris invites Nora to move in with them and Nora hugs her dad and NOT her mom?  Okay, show runner, Nora freezing out Iris constantly is a bit more than simply Nora wanting to maximize her contact with her Dad; there's something going on there beneath the surface.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

While I like Cisco, I'm not a huge fan of the way the character is written.  Cisco has become the series, physical manifestation of a Deus ex Machina.  Trotted out whenever the writers have written themselves into a corner.

They seem to be taking steps to correct that this season: no all seeing/all knowing satellite, and he can't go out as Vibe in public anymore. I just really hope they give him something to do besides tinkering at STAR Labs.

[adora721]

Based on Nora's eagerness to enlist the aid of more than one Wells, I'd say her ominous look in S4 at Jitters wasn't for Harry. It's more likely it was for Caitlin, which will pay off later in the season.

Edited October 29, 2018 by adora721

[BeautifulFlower]

11 hours ago, adora721 said:

Based on Nora's eagerness to enlist the aid of more than one Wells, I'd say her ominous look in S4 at Jitters wasn't for Harry. It's more likely it was for Caitlin, which will pay off later in the season.

Nah, I'm sure the writers probably forgot about that.

I really don't like how the writers are constantly implying that Team Flash is not smart enough or competent enough to solve thing unless they get a Wells. And now they're saying other superheroes are incompetent with catching guys, so now a Wells could change things. Just, stop it writers.

[Al Herkimer]

It seems obvious to me that Iris moved on with her life and fell in love with another man.  Barry continued to be missing for at least 25 years; I don't think anyone could blame Iris for moving on after 5, or maybe 10.  Anyone but a daughter who idolizes her missing dad.  That's the cause of Nora's estrangement from Iris.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Al Herkimer

[xander874]

22 hours ago, mtlchick said:

I'm also feeling that Cicada's anger towards metas and the "obvious" link to his kid is a misdirection.  At least I hope so.  

Yeah, admittedly he has some power, but he doesn't seem worse than most of the other villains. Hell, Gorilla Grodd could stomp on him and end it. I just don't get the never caught thing cause so far he is weak. Do love seeing Chris Klein though. Maybe he'll actually get some dialogue soon.

Agreed on the lameness of Wells 6.0. I do not want to hear that tired accent for multiple episodes. I like TC a lot but he must have some naked pictures of the producers that forces them to keep writing him into the show.

And why doesn't Iris just ask Nora why she's so distant? It's obviously not just wanting to be close to dad thing but she is downright shady. It's weird they let this slip over and over. Grow up!

[adora721]

10 hours ago, Al Herkimer said:

It seems obvious to me that Iris moved on with her life and fell in love with another man.  Barry continued to be missing for at least 25 years; I don't think anyone could blame Iris for moving on after 5, or maybe 10.  Anyone but a daughter who idolizes her missing dad.  That's the cause of Nora's estrangement from Iris.

 

I'm not sure what makes it "obvious" Iris moved on to another man. The byline still reads "Iris West-Allen" for the article written 25 years later. What clues have you seen that indicates Iris fell in love with someone else?

Edited October 30, 2018 by adora721

[Jacks-Son]

Also, gotta add when Sherloque was fucking with Cisco it had me on the floor with laughter. Paraphrasing here:  "Dark heavy circles under your eyes, like heavy drinking, puffy red eyes like you've been crying....all the signs that you've been............DDUUUUMMMPPPEEEDDD!!!!"

[Al Herkimer]

14 hours ago, adora721 said:

I'm not sure what makes it "obvious" Iris moved on to another man. The byline still reads "Iris West-Allen" for the article written 25 years later. What clues have you seen that indicates Iris fell in love with someone else?

I think the actress playing Nora is telling us that with her body language whenever the subject comes up.  I've only seen the episodes once and I don't have them here at work to review.  I think one scene was when the subject of Iris' tattoo came up and another was when they were discussing Barry's disappearance and failure to return.  Little hints from the way Nora rolled her eyes or reacted in these scenes... it may turn out that I'm delusional, but it really does seem obvious to me.  I guess we'll find out soon enough.

I admit that I find Iris, and the actress who plays her (or more accurately, stands there and reads her lines while the people around her act) to be, by far, the least enjoyable part of the Arrowverse.  But I don't think I'm letting that affect my read of the situation.

[adora721]

5 hours ago, Al Herkimer said:

I admit that I find Iris, and the actress who plays her (or more accurately, stands there and reads her lines while the people around her act) to be, by far, the least enjoyable part of the Arrowverse.  But I don't think I'm letting that affect my read of the situation.

That's quite an admission, but I'm glad you said your true feelings. I, respectfully, disagree.

See, the clues I'm looking at are:

1. Nora wears Iris' jacket. Why wear it, since it honors Iris, if you have issues with your mom moving on?
2. Nora uses the name Iris called her as her hero name. Why not choose something else since, again, it honors Iris?
3. Nora mentions that Iris took the news well. That seemed surprising to Nora, which clues us into the possibility that future Iris doesn't take it so well.
4. Barry makes comments like , "You know how strong your mom is."; Nora makes a face. I don't think Nora knows a strong Iris.
5. Iris exclaims, "Go team West-Allen!"; Nora makes a face perhaps because she doesn't know this happy, positive version of her mom.
6. Recall that in 4x1, how emotionally drained, depressed, and negative Iris was after Barry had been gone for just six months; imagine how much worse Iris must feel after Barry has been gone for 25 years. 
7. Recall how distraught and depressed Barry was after losing Iris in the timeline in which Savitar killed her. He hadn't moved on after 7 years; Barry and Iris' hearts are much alike. 
8. Even if Iris had moved on, wouldn't papa Joe have helped Nora understand why Iris would need to move on?

Edited October 30, 2018 by adora721

[Starry]

2 hours ago, adora721 said:

1. Nora mentions that Iris took the news well. That seemed surprising to Nora, which clues us into the possibility that future Iris doesn't take it so well.

To me this is the biggest hint. Apart from the fact that she's still Iris West-Allen 25 years after Barry's disappearance, Nora also labeled Iris' marriage to Barry "one for the ages". Those are not the words of someone who knows her mother found love somewhere else.

I hope we find out tonight because of theories like this one and because I've had enough of the characters pretending Nora's coldness to Iris is a direct consequence of her growing up without a father. It's not "normal" for children of single mothers to react like this to the parent who raised them. The show "normalizing" Nora's reactions is absurd. I can't take this plot seriously, it's obvious that they're awkwardly trying to stall.

[adora721]

1 hour ago, Starry said:

It's not "normal" for children of single mothers to react like this to the parent who raised them.

What's scary to me are the theories that Iris may have abused Nora. Like, why would Nora wear her mother's jacket or use the XS nickname if Iris had abused her?  Always assuming the absolute worst about Iris seems to be standard operating procedure for some part of the fandom.  Or those who think that because Iris had a tattoo of a former love that somehow proves she doesn't really love Barry or Barry isn't her soulmate. Or if she had moved on 25 years later that somehow dismisses her love or loyalty to Barry. I'm beyond sick of this!

Edited October 30, 2018 by adora721

[Jacks-Son]

40 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Or those who think that because Iris had a tattoo of a former love that somehow proves she doesn't really love Barry or Barry isn't her soulmate.

Has someone on this board suggested this? I know I simply questioned the existence of a tattoo because I don’t remember seeing one.  I actually like Iris, although her role on the team seems a bit of a stretch, however, she’s on the team and contributes where she can, and she gives Barry inspiration and a feeling of home and humanity.  She keeps him grounded, unlike The Mechanic, The Thinker’s wife, who allowed him to lose his humanity.

[adora721]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

Has someone on this board suggested this?

Not that I've seen. I was generalizing about a part of the fandom as a whole, not specifically on this forum. I've seen this tattoo theory on Twitter.

[Trini]

Found a transcription of the 'Vibe Dead' article that was on the screen in the episode: http://ladybubblegum.tumblr.com/post/179368599985/i-recorded-tonights-episode-of-the-flash-so-i

Sucks that none of this will be part of the plots, etc. but I appreciate that someone thought to actually write up something:

Quote

(A WORLD WITHOUT VIBE)

VIBE DEAD!

Central City has lost one of it’s guardians. A blog written by Iris West-Allen broke the devastating news that the superhero known as Vibe was killed in action last night. Her direct sources are The Flash and The Elongated Man who have publicly released a statement acknowledging the tragedy. As the news of Vibe’s death has circulated the city, citizens have turned to the streets and social media to express their sorrow. Stories of people seeing Vibe in action taking on criminals are numbering the hundreds. It seems Vibe saved many lives and inspired countless young people. Little is known about Vibe’s origins or who he was under those iconic goggles. What is known is that when the city was in trouble and in dire need of saving, Vibe was there.

Last spring, when Clifford DeVoe attempted to wipe the minds of the world, Vibe was on hand along with heroes such as The Flash and Elongated Man to stop his nefarious plan. Vibe was instrumental in helping to stop the crashing satellite from demolishing our fair city. It seemed that no danger was big enough to stop Vibe. Turns out, even the greatest of heroes can meet their match. No one knows for sure what mission Vibe was involved in when he met his untimely end (the rest is cut off from here)

Edited November 1, 2018 by Trini

[Jacks-Son]

Go Iris!!!!!  Nicely written article.  I had no idea Cisco achieved such esteem from the populace.  Good for him, now, get over Gypsy and find someone ON THIS EARTH.