The Apprentice [UK] - General Discussion

[RCharter]

Wow, I think it was close at the end.  I truly think Richard's idea sounds better than Vana's.  People will happily pay for dating sites, but I'm not entirely sure they will pay for a dating app.  I thought the gaming model was to make the initial app "free" and then charge for add-ons as you play.  So, if I'm playing words with friends, I can download and play for free, but if I want to buy the dictionary, or something like that, I have to pay more money.  Or there are ads, like with angry birds.

 

So, not only does she have to convince people to have some interest in her dating app, she also has to convince people to pay for the app.  I think it might work better if people could see the pictures outright and "invite" someone to play a game with them.

 

I think if Richard had just been a little more honest and hadn't tried to use all that 80's management talk he would have stood a much better chance.  His business doesn't require a ton of money and it sounds like something he could get up and running pretty quick.

 

I'm actually pulling for Joseph.  He seems like the most genuine candidate and while he isn't exactly reinventing the wheel I think it could work.

 

WTF was Gary's business?  It sounded like Skype for real!  Or just like a webcam.  He should consider going back to Tesco, he is a nice guy but I think he is selling Skype.

[Kromm]

A social gaming app would be just as expensive to launch and maintain. Programmers cost a lot of money regardless of the application and there's also infrastructure cost. Even with cloud computing the cost would be non-trivial. The way it would normally work is that the app developer would only start with a $500,000 - $1,000,000 seed round, and as the app grows, receive several more millions (sometimes tens or even hundreds of millions) of dollars in investments before an exit (IPO or acquisition). Any serious app would need a lot more than Sugar's £250,000 to launch and stay afloat until it gets to profitability.

I think the key to getting her idea to work is hopefully something Sugar twigged to and simply didn't say on camera. That there are EXISTING social networks (non-dating ones), EXISTING gaming networks, EXISTING medium sized dating services, etc. And rather than simply see them ALL as competition, the thing would be to partner with one (or possibly even more than one) and integrate.

So you could go to an existing gaming network and partner to use their current content, custom front ended with achievements added that feed into the dating stuff. Or you could go to an existing dating site and bring them a gaming plug-in interface to use against their existing client base (possibly as a new paid add-on service rather than just a free rider to what they already have).

Bingo. 50% of your development (or more) taken care of, and with either plan an existing base of either gamers or daters who can quickly migrate to your service. It also becomes a much smaller programming task and mostly an integration problem.

You know on Dragon's Den or Shark Tank where they ask someone if they went to the big players in the industry already and tried to sell their enhancement to them and/or craft a partnership there? This would be that kind of play, with either a gaming service or a dating one or (as I said) possibly even just a social networking site.

The actual bit about a slowly revealed picture is kind of dumb. But taking that out doesn't sour the whole idea of couples playing cooperative games (presumably with chat) to bond before risking real world meetings. That's a workable idea for the right kind of daters. There's been a kickback I think against Tinder-like apps that make it all so easy and a traditional strain of people with a "try before you buy" attitude towards online dating. I'd hit that aspect up in the promotion for this idea, the female users in particular probably would react well, while the male users would gravitate towards the gaming. Both ends would have their own motives for using this approach.

Edited December 17, 2015 by Kromm

[chocolatine]

Kromm, you make a good point, but even creating a gaming add-on for a dating app like Tinder would take quite a bit of dev resources. Unless Sugar is planning to quietly invest more money into it after the show is over, it will be nearly impossible for Vana to fully realize her idea with just £250,000.

[Occasional Hope]

I think Vana may have to change her business name, as a different dating business is already using the PlayDate name with a different approach: http://www.playdatelondon.com/about/

 

I don't think she wins now as she has another type of business launching - unless, of course, there's a last minute change during the finale itself.

[RCharter]

I think Vana may have to change her business name, as a different dating business is already using the PlayDate name with a different approach: http://www.playdatelondon.com/about/

 

I don't think she wins now as she has another type of business launching - unless, of course, there's a last minute change during the finale itself.

She kept talking about launching it in the US, so maybe she knows about playdatelondon.

 

Although frankly....I really like the dating concept of playdatelondon.

[Occasional Hope]

I feel Vana's project would have been more impressive if she already had the app developed and ready to go.  I ended up confused about what the actual games were like.

 

Joseph's bid started out seeming very amateurish but it smoothed out.

 

Are potential competitors the most unbiased source of information?

 

A sample size of three is frankly useless.

[HauntedBathroom]

I think L Suggs made the right choice. Vana lost this the second she announced more investment than £250000.

[Kromm]

Joseph and his project screamed "small time" to me. It really shows the limitations of this format that a significantly better idea, pitched by someone who seems like a much better businessperson, didn't get the nod. Because even if Vana couldn't meet that budget, and even if there are risks, they're not insurmountable ones if her partner, Suggs, used leverage to get other partners and investors (the partners part being maybe even more important--similar existing business in gaming and/or dating that would just plug Vana's new "piece" into their existing platforms).

I feel Vana's project would have been more impressive if she already had the app developed and ready to go.

If she had the app already she wouldn't have needed Sugar. It's the major upfront cost.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Kromm

[RCharter]

^^I don't know....to me, if he had to put in all that work he is better off just taking the idea and hiring her to consult.  Josephs idea may be small time, but he brings a network of customers and the know how from the ground up.  He probably also brings a good network of suppliers and the ability to negotiate cost.  What is it exactly that Vana is bringing to the table besides the idea?  If Sugar has to bring the partners, and if he has to bring other investors, than what technical expertise or specialized business expertise does she bring to the table that is worth a quarter of a million dollars?  It would be one thing if she was building the app, but it doesn't sound like she is doing that.  Is there code that she has written?  Her idea can't be trademarked.  It can't be copyrighted.  A new dating app in the US market is a risk, as it is.  But its a pretty big risk that he wouldn't need to pay 250k for if she isn't bringing any specialized expertise to the table.

[legaleagle53]

What is it exactly that Vana is bringing to the table besides the idea?  If Sugar has to bring the partners, and if he has to bring other investors, than what technical expertise or specialized business expertise does she bring to the table that is worth a quarter of a million dollars?

 

More than that, actually.  It's 250,000 pounds, not dollars.  That translates to $370,437.50 USD, which is quite a hefty investment.

Edited December 22, 2015 by legaleagle53

[chocolatine]

That translates to $370,437.50 USD, which is quite a hefty investment.

 

Not for an app/software business. In our industry, anything under $1,000,000 is just seed money to prove the concept, and many more millions are needed to get to profitability.

[legaleagle53]

Not for an app/software business. In our industry, anything under $1,000,000 is just seed money to prove the concept, and many more millions are needed to get to profitability.

 

Perhaps. My actual point was to show just how much of Lord Sugar's money was really at stake, since many Americans think that $250,000 GBP is the same as $250,000 USD.  It's clearly not.

[Occasional Hope]

Two episodes in and no interest yet in this year?

While both jeans campaigns were indeed woeful and both teams a bunch of headless chickens I wouldn't employ to pick up litter, I actually thought the guys were worse. Just.

I felt sorry for them but Jessica and Alana certainly aren't leadership material.  Karthick is toxic.

[chocolatine]

Is it that competent people don't apply for this show, or just that they are rejected at casting?

[Trick Question]

It's a question that has several answers...

4 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Is it that competent people don't apply for this show, or just that they are rejected at casting?

1. Well, mostly.

2. I've complained about this flaw in the show's structure before, but the stated goal of Sugar finding a business to invest in really has nothing to do with running everyone through the Apprentice's tasks.  It's probably not too far off that he only has four or five business plans that he's actually interested in and those people will get the benefit of the doubt throughout the process (unless they prove themselves as complete disasters) and literally everyone else is just there for entertainment value.

3. Also, to be somewhat sympathetic to the candidates, this process is hard!  The short filming schedule, the constant inter-team politics, simply getting used to being filmed 24/7 and being on TV, the need to both prove yourself as a team player while also "stepping up"....it isn't easy. 

I'm a little curious as to why Natalie was fired in this case since, while she didn't seem to do anything, being a net zero is better than being a net negative (i.e. Jessica).  Natalie didn't really even get the chance to do anything simply based on the task's structure.  If you have eight or nine people working on a task where really 90% of the responsibility lies with the PM and sub-team leader, there's not much room left over for anyone else. 

Alana, Jessica, Mukai and Karthik all deserved to be fired far more than Natalie, in my opinion, though Karthik's outspokenness may have been somewhat justified here since everything was actually falling apart.

[TVbitch]

I've watched all seasons of this show and find it far superior to US Apprentice, especially after that went all "celebs." I think Sugar is mostly just doing a personality check and probably already has 1-3 of the business plans picked out and has his team analyzing them. But it's still fun to see how they approach the tasks, and I find it less scripted than most reality TV. Wasn't Sugar "Lord Sugar" last season? Now it's back to "Sir Allen?"

Is the "You're Fired" show worth watching? I watched the one when the older observer guy retired. I adored that guy and his hilarious looks and comments. I liked the older lady observer too, but the two new ones are not bad at all.

As for the jeans task ....holy crap! I'm in advertising by profession, and I was glad Sugar refused to name a winner.   

[Trick Question]

That team should've lost based on the "Suck It And Sea" name alone.

[chocolatine]

On 10/15/2016 at 1:08 PM, TVbitch said:

Wasn't Sugar "Lord Sugar" last season? Now it's back to "Sir Allen?"

No, he's still Lord Sugar and has been for several years now.

On 10/21/2016 at 0:04 AM, Trick Question said:

That team should've lost based on the "Suck It And Sea" name alone.

That sounded as bad as the salt & vinegar toffee must have tasted.

Edited October 23, 2016 by chocolatine

[legaleagle53]

12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

No, he's still Lord Sugar and has been for several years now.

That sounded as bad as the salt & vinegar toffee must have tasted.

No kidding.  Salt and vinegar-flavored fudge?  There's NOTHING subtle about that particular combination.  It's why I don't like salt and vinegar flavored potato chips!

Going back one task, while I agree that both teams should have lost (Titan for missing the deadline on the interactive part of their ad campaign, and Nebula for just sucking outright), I'm not really clear on what it was that Lord Sugar hated about Titan's concept that it drew the same intense reaction that Nebula's concept did.  Would anyone care to enlighten me as to what Lord Sugar hated about it?

[Lazlo]

On 10/15/2016 at 9:08 PM, TVbitch said:

Is the "You're Fired" show worth watching? I watched the one when the older observer guy retired. I adored that guy and his hilarious looks and comments. I liked the older lady observer too, but the two new ones are not bad at all.

"You're Fired" is very hit or miss. The current host, comedian Rhod Gilbert is very funny but I'm not sure the show plays to his strengths (he is very much an 'exasperation' type comic and "You're Fired" is usually quite gentle with the firees.) Sometimes though it is worth it for the insights into the firees - Natalie revealing she had never even watched the show for instance!

[Trick Question]

Claude's total exasperation at the "New York/Majorca" window was pretty hilarious.  It was a pretty close score, though I'm surprised Granye's team lost; it seemed like they were generally a bit more on top of things, as least as per the editing.  Mikai is pretty useless anyway, no big loss. 

I supposed it was probably too late (once tasks had been assigned and strategizing had already begun) to do a team shuffle to replace Aleksandra, as an 8-6 candidate led to people like JD just sitting around.

[basset hound]

I always cringe when the contestants have to do stuff like flash mobs or making a viral video as part of a task. It's never not cringeworthy.

[Occasional Hope]

Rebecca was a bit of a lightweight, so I'm not surprised she's gone.  Altough I did feel a little sorry for her with the shopkeeper not understanding her.

Karthick is still exceptionally irritating, but he wasn't completely useless this week.  Just annoying.

Sofiane's English is really fluent if he taught himself; I would never have guessed he didn't grow up here.

[Trick Question]

I mean, it wasn't even mentioned that the one sub-team was late for the deadline?  I'm surprised Rebecca didn't make the point that at least her team was on time, when it came to accounting blame for the task.  Even if she'd actually found a tagine and the black soap, it may not have mattered given the time penalty.

The scavenger hunt task is always my favourite, and having it at night is a nice twist. 

[chocolatine]

I wonder why nobody even tried to call a cookware store about the tagine - was it because they were all closed already? Rebecca deserved to get fired because it was so obvious the shop guy did not understand what she was asking him. I initially thought he at least understood the soap part but that he would try to sell them the wrong kind of soap, so I LOL'ed when he pointed them to the Knorr soup packets. I know the show tried to play the looking for a Moroccan product in a Turkish store for laughs, but nothing will ever trump that one guy who tried to buy a kosher chicken from a halal butcher in one of the earlier seasons.

[Occasional Hope]

That was a slaughter.  And then another one in the boardroom.

The silence after Karthick's team was asked if he was any good as PM was hilarious.

[HauntedBathroom]

That was an epic fail, even for this show. I'm surprised Alan was so gentle with Big K.

[Trick Question]

That was incredible.  Usually these tasks are rather poorly-designed, since it all comes down to one high-ticket sale --- Nebula crushing it in the lower-end stuff to the tune of 2000 pounds doesn't really matter when you're dealing with $20K boats, but in this case, it was just an ass-kicking all around.

At least we got Karthik's absurd talking-head about his "project managing" his child's conception.

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, Trick Question said:

At least we got Karthik's absurd talking-head about his "project managing" his child's conception.

So that he can pass that information on to the child. Because there's nothing anyone would rather know than the details of their own conception.

3 hours ago, Trick Question said:

That was incredible.  Usually these tasks are rather poorly-designed, since it all comes down to one high-ticket sale --- Nebula crushing it in the lower-end stuff to the tune of 2000 pounds doesn't really matter when you're dealing with $20K boats, but in this case, it was just an ass-kicking all around.

I loved Paul's quip back at the house that Titans made less money than it cost to put them up in the hotel for the night.

6 hours ago, HauntedBathroom said:

That was an epic fail, even for this show. I'm surprised Alan was so gentle with Big K.

He was surprisingly gentle with the whole team. We've seen him berate teams for much less spectacular failures. That and the fact that he kept Dillon and Alana because they're "nice" makes me think he's becoming softer with age.

[Kromm]

7 hours ago, Trick Question said:

At least we got Karthik's absurd talking-head about his "project managing" his child's conception.

Ah yes. Our silly friend Mr. "Carsick". has been absurd even for this show.  Then again, so has 

That said, I think the casting agent for this show has an agenda. Every brown person they cast tends to be nuttier than the last (this series for example, we had BOTH Karthik AND Sofiane acting like idiots). 

Edited November 18, 2016 by Kromm

[TVbitch]

I watched the "You're Fired" for this episode and Big K was just as bombastic there, so that seems to be just how he rolls. Everyone agreed he should have gone but would have spared the other guy. Listen to Big K talk about what his "business plan" is confirmed he never would have lasted to the end. So maybe Dillon and Alana submitted decent plans. 

[Occasional Hope]

On 18/11/2016 at 5:49 AM, chocolatine said:

So that he can pass that information on to the child. Because there's nothing anyone would rather know than the details of their own conception.

To be fair, growing with Karthick as your dad, you'd be pretty used to embarrassment.

[Occasional Hope]

Frances was a bit two-faced this ep, with her constant sucking up to Paul, then backtracking.

[Trick Question]

Funny, I thought Paul was kind of the backstabber there, picking Frances for the boardroom after praising her all task and sending her into the subteam to clean up Jessica's mess.  Sofian has seemed to be on auto-pilot for weeks now, he should've been in Frances' place.

Grainne and Courtney are both impossibly low-key, yet they're continually put into these public selling situations.  It's one of the season's better running jokes.

[Trick Question]

Frances' "the branding is utterly pathetic" talking head needs to be GIF'ed immediately.  (And could be applicable to at least 50% of the show's episodes.)

Sugar's VR intro was so cheesy but hilarious.  With all the glitching, it felt like the show was five seconds away from turning into Black Mirror.

[chocolatine]

On 11/24/2016 at 6:18 PM, Trick Question said:

Sofian has seemed to be on auto-pilot for weeks now

Yes, and I'm glad he's finally gone. I think it's going to be Trishna vs Grainne in the finals. Jessica is too wacky, Courtney is a baby, Alana is a non-entity, and Frances has been on the losing team too many times.

[Occasional Hope]

Courtney's pitching was just embarrassing.

I can't really see Jessica making it through the interviews.

Not the most impressive final five, is it?  I wonder what their business plans are.

[chocolatine]

Wow, there goes my prediction. What a hot mess the Grainne-Trishna-Frances team was! As soon as the "colony" theme came up I knew this wasn't going to be good, and then they added food coloring to gin. *facepalm*

5 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Courtney's pitching was just embarrassing.

I can't really see Jessica making it through the interviews.

Courtney is terrible at pitching, and I think he'll be taken to task in the interviews even more than Jessica. She's a kook, but she's also personable and likable, so I don't think she'll be eviscerated quite as much. She still won't make final two, but they'll be kinder to her about it.

5 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Not the most impressive final five, is it?

Agreed. Someone like Alana wouldn't have lasted past the third episode in previous seasons, and Frances wouldn't have been far behind.

[Trick Question]

Frances did make the point that although she's lost 8/10, it's rarely her fault since she has only been in the boardroom twice.  (And even those two times it was in teams of five and three, so there wasn't much choice.) 

I have no idea who's going to win, though I guess technically we never do since we don't know anything about the business plans.  This season, in fact, have we heard ANYTHING about anyone's plans?  In past years it feels we've at least heard a few tossed-off comments from candidates (usually when trying to save themselves) talking up their plans to Sugar in the boardroom, yet I don't think we've heard anything from any of the five yet.

Grainne or Trishna both should've been fired for ignoring Frances' calls and getting drunk on the job.  That seems automatic to me.  Makes me wonder if Sugar would've fired both had it been earlier in the year, or if maybe Grainne's plan is really good and he has an eye on hiring her anyways.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Trick Question said:

Grainne or Trishna both should've been fired for ignoring Frances' calls and getting drunk on the job.  That seems automatic to me.  Makes me wonder if Sugar would've fired both had it been earlier in the year, or if maybe Grainne's plan is really good and he has an eye on hiring her anyways.

I think he's interested in hiring/investing in Grainne. Last episode when Dillon was trying to save himself in the boardroom by saying how much he achieved despite the obstacles of being a gay man from a small town, Sugar said something to the effect of "that's admirable, but Grainne is a single mother who owns a business". Very interesting that he brought it up, and not Grainne herself. And yes, he spared her even though she got drunk on the job, drunker than Trishna, and as PM it was her responsibility to keep in touch with Frances. That says to me that he must really like her business plan.

[TVbitch]

This entire batch of contestants is the most incompetent I've seen on this show. I can't remember a single standout performance by a team on a task. I'm sure the gin orders they did get were more about the show than the taste/branding of those gins. The video games last week were extremely lame, and the events the week before cringe-worthy. There is no doubt that Lord Sugar has already chosen the best business plan for the win. 

I watch more for Karen's deathly side eyes and Claude's pained astonishment. 

[Occasional Hope]

Based on The Final Five show, I'm inclined to think the final will *probably* be Frances vs Courtney, and if only one of them then that one will win.

Assuming their business plans are connected to their current businesses, Grainne's makeup business looks a bit like Charlene's hairdressing plan, and would perhaps have some of the same issues being scaled up?   She came across very well, though.

Same with Alana's cakes.

Frances's children's shop could scale up into a chain, although it's not unique.  I didn't think she came across as particularly pleasant, though - a very steely core there, but maybe that's what you need.  At this point I see her as the front runner.

Courtney's big selling point is being sold as the creative side (like Tom)., although I haven't been that impressed by what I've seen of it myself.  His fatal flaw is his inability to present himself. 

I still can't take Jessica seriously as a candidate.

[Occasional Hope]

Hmm.  Actually having seen Courtney's products I've rather cooled on him as a candidate.  They just looked kind of cheap and slightly tacky.  Claude really seems to like him for some reason.

I wasn't expecting Alana to make the final, and I still can't see her scaling up successfully - her cakes certainly looked tasty, though.

[chocolatine]

"Claude literally tore me a new one" - oh, Frances.

On 12/14/2016 at 3:34 PM, Occasional Hope said:

Frances's children's shop could scale up into a chain, although it's not unique.  I didn't think she came across as particularly pleasant, though - a very steely core there, but maybe that's what you need. 

I thought she was being confrontational and almost rude in her interview with the woman who's actually built a successful fashion business. If a candidate I was interviewing spoke to me like that, I wouldn't be impressed.

4 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Hmm.  Actually having seen Courtney's products I've rather cooled on him as a candidate.  They just looked kind of cheap and slightly tacky.  Claude really seems to like him for some reason.

I also thought his products looked tacky, and also not particularly clever or original. The worst part about that type of product for me is that they just get thrown away after a short time. There's already more than enough junk in the landfills.

I can't believe Alana is in the final two.

[Trick Question]

I also can't believe Alana is in the final two, and I doubly can't believe that I think she's going to win.  This might go the way of that plumbing/repair business that won last season...a fairly small-scale enterprise but a manageable one with a good profit margin.  If Alana scales back her plans for country-wide sales to maybe just her county or something, she might clinch it.

5 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I also thought his products looked tacky, and also not particularly clever or original. The worst part about that type of product for me is that they just get thrown away after a short time. There's already more than enough junk in the landfills.

I guess it wouldn't matter to the seller if you threw the product away quickly....they've still got your money. 

That being said, yeah, Courtney's plan seemed pretty weak.  He made a big deal about being able to spot trends and quickly coming up with products to fit those trends, but if only 33 of his 140+ designs were originals, that's less than one 'new idea' per month over his three years in business.  That's not nearly enough volume for an online product-based business.  This may be a case of Courtney's plan being the least-bad of the four, as Grainne, Frances and Jessica's plans all had more blatant flaws.

[rasalas]

We see pitches like Alana's on Shark Tank. Her baking business could be scaled by using a co-packer, a large food manufacturer that would produce the cakes according to her recipes and then distribute them.

On the other hand, Frances' concept would be hard to scale because her clothing shops rely on remaindered and end-of-the-line inventory from other manufacturers -- goods that are, by definition, in limited supply. So she'd face two issues: (1) Not enough stock to be spread among many stores. (2) No ability to reorder goods that sell out or become popular, certainly not at the same discounted prices.

[Occasional Hope]

Why did Karthick take part in the confidence building exercise?  If there was anyone who needed less of the stuff, it's him.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Why did Karthick take part in the confidence building exercise?  If there was anyone who needed less of the stuff, it's him.

I think he was there to transfer some of his confidence to Courtney.

While Alana finally came out fighting in the final boardroom, I still think she's the most "meh" winner ever. I've also been bored with Lord Sugar's business selections of the past few seasons - cakes, plumbers, internet marketing. I'd love to see him invest in something that's fresh and innovative but also a sound business model.

[Trick Question]

On 2016-12-18 at 8:45 PM, chocolatine said:

I've also been bored with Lord Sugar's business selections of the past few seasons - cakes, plumbers, internet marketing. I'd love to see him invest in something that's fresh and innovative but also a sound business model.

So would Lord Sugar himself, I'm assuming.  Though if someone has a fresh, sound business plan, they probably also have the sensibility to find more practical traditional funding methods than a 12-week reality show.

[waving feather]

They really have a weak group of candidates this year. The worst this show has ever gotten. I'm not surprised Alana won though. Courtney's business idea is terrible so I knew there was no chance he would win.