Oberyn Martell: Prince Puss n' Boots of Dorne

[gingerella]

So, yeah. It appears that Prince Oberyn of House Martell is fast becoming "The" Prince in the 7K, ergo he hath earned his own thread.

My first thoughts each time Oberyn appears on screen are, "Mmmm, he so fine, I'd hit that!" And then I think this actor is seriously good because I immediately am swept up in his storyline. I love how Dorne, and the Dornish in general, have been portrayed as lazy winos who just get drunk and copulate 24/7. I never anticipated that the Dornish Prince would be so magnetic and at the same time have such a potentially dark side to him. I am loving me some Dark Prince right now.

I also cannot help but think how incredibly fortuitous is was of Tyrion to send Myrcella to Dorne when he shipped her out of KL before all hell broke loose. Right now, Tyrion has Cersei's beloved daughter sequestered away in the very place that his new champion not only hails from, but is also their Prince. Maybe this is the break that Tyrion has been living for?! I hope it is. I like some of the musings on the spec thread regarding Oberyn possibly using poison on his blade to gain the upper hand with the Mountain, thus killing him rather swiftly. I also could see Oberyn having a little tete-a-tete with Cersei, and telling her he will repatriate her daughter with her - or at least ensure she does not become a Dornish whore - ONLY if she ensures that the Mountain fails in killing him. That's about the only thing I can think of that would move Cersei to figure a way to throw the fight. Or recant her accusation entirely and call off the need for a fight.

One thing I'm not clear on, is why Myrcella is not currently free to return to KL on her own accord. I don't think that is something us Unsullied currently know the answer to, though I am assuming that once a kingdom takes in another House's offspring, perhaps there is some unspoken rule that they in essence have a hostage situation for future use? I'm just not sure, but it seems odd that Cersei cannot simply send for Myrcella herself, y'know? But yeah, can definitely see Oberyn using this situation to gain advantage over his fighting rival.

I will be sorely disappointed with A Show if A Viewer loses Oberyn in this upcoming battle...just sayin'...

[Snowblack]

I was so thoroughly unimpressed with Oberyn when we first met him, and now I absolutely love him.  He's a lover, a fighter and a family man with a big brain and principles.  Does it get any better?  Well, okay.  I do wish he had brought a change of clothes...    So yeah, Oberyn can't live long.  He's too awesome.

[stillshimpy]

Okay, I am seriously not okay with that thread title. I apologize, because I do watch the show, after all, but boy that's not a great thing to have in bold letters on a computer screen, particularly for anyone in a work environment.  Could we dial it back a little, please?  Maybe the Polyamorous Prince of Poisons ? 

 

And yes, yes, I get the Polly Prim Points for the day.  Or barring a change, is there anyway I could choose to hide it in my settings? 

Edited May 20, 2014 by stillshimpy

[stillshimpy]

Thank you so much for changing that, seriously.  

 

I love the character, and that of course makes me convinced that he is sooooo going to die.  I hope that he gets to take out The Mountain before he does.  If the Mountain can't be trampled to death by herds of horses, reanimated, trampled again; reanimated, kicked in the head and groin by equines; reanimated and transformed into sentient hay and munched; pooped out while still aware of the process, then I think it's only just that Oberyn gets to take him out. 

 

But he seems a primarily good character, who still cares about his sister many years after she was killed.  I like his paramour, Elaria also.  I liked that she didn't take offense when one of their bed buddies wasn't into her. 

 

They're good characters and I hope they slay the Mountain, take out Tywin and boogey back to the far more pleasant-sounding Dorne. 

Edited May 20, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Coxfires]

I love the character, and that of course makes me convinced that he is sooooo going to die

 

This is how GoT twists us viewers. In any other show, you'd think "he is a fan favorite badass: he'll live", now,  with GoT I'm always "Oh shit, I like him, he'll kick the bucket in episode 9"

Oberyn is such a fantastic addition, thanks not only to how good his character is on paper, but definitely thanks to Pedro Pascal. As Oberyn, the effortless sexiness he exudes by all his pores is undeniable, but there is also the fact that Oberyn is witty and perceptive that makes him mesmerizing. His scene with Tyrionwas awesome. From him telling Tyrion that he saw him as a human and not a monster/freak/anomaly, to him getting all badass and declaring himself Tyrion's champion, Pedro Pascal killed it (and Dinklage's reaction shots were excellent, far better than last week's showy rant)

The ramifications of his decisions are interesting in so many regards: how will the relations with Dorne change between the Martell's and the Lannisters? How will Cersei and tywin react to him basically siding against them, whatever the issue of the duel is? What if he wins? And what if he dies? King's Landing really is the most enthralling side of the show this year.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Coxfires

[MrMicrophone]

ging,

I assume, in times of relative peace (with a strong king), that any ward can be summoned home.

Theon, obviously, is an exception -- as he was essentially hostage.

 

Currently we have a weak king, who is trying to consolidate his power. Holding Myrcella 

essentially guarantees to Dorne a noticeable lack of war with the Lannisters -- their 

allyship seems strained at best. Tyrion knew they couldn't afford another fight at that 

moment, so he chose to take Dorne off the board.

 

So, the Lannisters might ask for Myrcella back, but Dorne might, at most warlike, reply,

"You and what army?" More likely, being tricksome Dorne, they might reply, 

"give us additional surety that you won't attack us. Cersei might do nicely, as we have

an unmarried Prince..."

 

Note: it probably says something that Myrcella isn't betrothed to someone in Dorne.

Not sure what? Maybe too young?

[Snowblack]

Coxfires, I don't think Tywin will be surprised or dismayed by Oberyn's decision to be Tyrion's champion.  At the brothel, Tywin made a point of laying the blame for all the ills that befell the Martells in King's Landing squarely at the Mountain's feet.  It makes perfect sense for Oberyn to jump at the opportunity for revenge.  I suspect Tywin sees it as a win-win.  If the Mountain prevails, Tywin will be rid of a very dangerous adversary.  If Oberyn wins, Tywin can hope that Oberyn will consider his sister and her children avenged and the bad blood between their families on the path to becoming a thing of the past.  I hope he's wrong.

[Coxfires]

Coxfires, I don't think Tywin will be surprised or dismayed by Oberyn's decision to be Tyrion's champion.  At the brothel, Tywin made a point of laying the blame for all the ills that befell the Martells in King's Landing squarely at the Mountain's feet.  It makes perfect sense for Oberyn to jump at the opportunity for revenge.  I suspect Tywin sees it as a win-win.  If the Mountain prevails, Tywin will be rid of a very dangerous adversary.  If Oberyn wins, Tywin can hope that Oberyn will consider his sister and her children avenged and the bad blood between their families on the path to becoming a thing of the past.  I hope he's wrong.

 

Yes, I agree that Tywin won't be surprised, but even if he had made his intentions clear towards the Lannisters, Oberyn hadn't done anything yet against them. Him declaring himself the champion is indeed an occasion to kill the Mountain, but this will also constitute a public statement that he goes against Tywin.

Plus, even if Tywin stated that the Mountain was responsible for Oberyn's family death, I am not sure he believed that Oberyn bought it and suddenly forgot all about his long-time beef against the Lannisters, just after a few words exchanged in the brothel. I doubt Tywin underestimates his ennemies that easily (although he didn't see Tyrion's request coming).

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Note: it probably says something that Myrcella isn't betrothed to someone in Dorne.

Not sure what? Maybe too young?

 

I'd have to go back and rewatch that (Great!) scene, but I thought she was, I just can't remember the name of the lord/prince/whatever she was betrothed to. I recall Tyrion listing out 3 possible suitors for her. Theon was one, the other was Robyn, and the 3rd was some princeling of Dorne, I thought. He told LF, Varys and Pycelle each one of those possibilities, and it was Pycelle (Dorne) who told Cersei.

[stillshimpy]

Myrcella is betrothed to someone in Dorne.  When Tyrion did his fishing expedition to find out who was spying for Cersei, he proposed a different match to each of the three for Myrcella.  Including Robyn at the Eyrie, Theon Greyjoy and then someone in Dorne.  When Cersei came in and tried to kick Tyrion's ass, yelling about how the Martells hated the Lannisters, Tyrion knew Pycelle was spying for Cersei.  He followed through with the match and explained why Myrcella would actually be safer in Dorne.  

 

But she's engaged to someone there.  She just won't be married until she reaches puberty. 

[RadiantAerynSun]

Re: the betrothed, apparently it just says "their youngest son". No name.

[gingerella]

Re: the betrothed, apparently it just says "their youngest son". No name.

I can't remember if Oberyn has mentioned anything about knowing that Cersei's kids are twincest bastards...did he?  Maybe during that talk into KL with Tyrion?  In any case, the Dornish, and Oberyn in particular, seem very astute and clued in, and since everyone seems to have heard the rumors anyway, I wonder why they would want their prince to marry a twincest bastard with potentially bad blood.  I can see why they'd take her in, she's great insurance against warring with the Lannisters/Baratheon's, but following through with her marrying into their family with her essentially tainted blood?  I don't see the Martell's going that route at all.

[Snowblack]

If they're marrying her to the youngest son, that wouldn't be a particularly stellar match for the king's eldest daughter. Considering she's the king's sister too, I would have expected they would do better.  Her birthright comes with influence within the royal family.  That being said, I'm sure the Tyrells have heard the twincest rumors.  Luckily, it appears that the Dornish, and the Martells in particular, don't hold the circumstances of someone's birth against them.  I would say that looking at the match objectively, the Tyrells definitely come out ahead.  

[abelard]

I've really enjoyed the Oberyn character right from the start.  "The Lannisters are not the only ones who pay their debts" was the first line that gave me hope that somebody strong was finally going to wreak some havoc on the Lannisters' rule.  Of course, now that Joff has been Offed (HUZZAH!), the main Lannister I wanted gone is gone (well, I will always miss that actor), so my need for the Lannisters to PAY is somewhat lessened.  But I still want Oberyn to succeed, in frankly any way he wants to succeed.  If he wants to kill the Mountain I hope he does.  If he wants to kill Tywin I hope he does (and will really miss the actor).  Oberyn is one character who is in the right place at the right time with the right skills and status to take this family down several notches and I hope he does - without Tyrion getting killed.  Since Oberyn is actively championing Tyrion now, he's already on the side of the one Lannister I want protected.  GO OBERYN!!!!!!!!!!!  

 

The one downside of Oberyn tearing down the Lannisters' reign in KL is that Oberyn himself may go down in the process.  Also, the only next ruler-in-waiting is...Stannis, which seems like it will be either boring or full of burning bodies courtesy of the Red Woman.  So, I'm not sure that if Oberyn succeeds, which I want, I'll get an actual game configuration that I will enjoy. 

[Pallas]

So, I'm not sure that if Oberyn succeeds, which I want, I'll get an actual game configuration that I will enjoy.

 

A Show pats itself on the back, and changes its face yet again.  

 

I'm afraid Oberyn has the feel of Jaqen: a brilliant one-off, brought in for the purpose of doing what no one else in Westeros has the means, the opportunity and the motive to pull off.  I want to think that after the Hamlet-scene that you've predicted, abelard,  Oberyn and Tyrion might take their leave of the capitol together.  But as you say: Hamlet.  Vengeful brothers, poisoned blades, tragic twists, dead King and dead combatants.  

 

And Elaria surely has some role to play, or else why have her make the journey (to our screens)?  "Well, yeah: I knew he was a great warrior, wronged brother, connoisseur and middling poet; he's famously a loather of Lannisters, a polyamorous prince and the father of eight daughters -- but he has a paramour, too?"

[abelard]

Pallas, perhaps Elaria will have a hand in turning Dorne against the throne if Oberyn does go down?  Not to place too much stock in casting (see: Ned Stark cast with Sean Bean), but Elaria is played by a more prominent actress than Oberyn is.  I wonder if she will be the messenger to go back to the Dornish royals and tell them the truth of what went down in KL, and that will matter in the longer game.  

 

From a practical and character perspective, I think we need Elaria because it would be tedious to watch Oberyn screwing all day every day in the brothel with a bunch of randoms.  Elaria injects a relationship element into Oberyn's escapades, so those scenes and that part of his life isn't purely about his hedonism, it's actually about their relationship.  Fu**ing randoms is actually a part of how they relate to each other, what they like to do together, what brings them closer.  It's a mutual shared interest and a hobby that ups their intimacy, I think.  

 

Having Elaria around also ensures that Oberyn is not alone, and does not seem alone, in KL.  Yes he has a retinue but we don't care about them.  It's nice that when he's trading barbs with Cersei and Tywin, that there is someone Dornish by his side, to smile at his jokes and give her own sass.  No piece on the board that is a serious player can stand alone.  Even Tyrion still has Jaime's moral support, even though he lost Bronn and Pod.  (Well, and now Tyrion has Oberyn!!)

[stillshimpy]

"Well, yeah: I knew he was a great warrior, wronged brother, connoisseur and middling poet; he's famously a loather of Lannisters, a polyamorous prince and the father of eight daughters -- but he has a paramour, too?"

 

In most stories or shows, Elaria would be there for the reader/viewer to have a chance to see Oberyn interact without whatever agenda he has come to King's Landing with, to show more aspects or facets of his character.  Also, to give us a hint as to how sincere Oberyn is, or isn't.  Not everybody can, or should be known via the worst sexposition scene ever.  

 

On this show, it is likely that Elaria will be the price Oberyn pays for any success he does achieve.  That's the purpose of loved ones as characters on A Show, most of the time. 

[Pallas]

Every word of both your posts about Elaria, shimpy: all make great sense.  You're so right that seeing Oberyn in the context of a loving, enthusiastic partner makes his sexcapades a lot more meaningful and enjoyable for us. (Now that you mention it, perhaps the first sex we've seen on A Show that looks sexy, because mutual in all ways, light-hearted and sensual.)  And your point that this establishes that Oberyn is not alone, and not a loner: he is a man who makes connections. So we feel that his sister was not an abstraction to him, not simply a "point of honor" but a person.  And your point that Elaria is there to show us Oberyn's acting without plot-heavy agenda.  And your point that she is the measure of his sincerity.  Finally, both these specs:

 

perhaps Elaria will have a hand in turning Dorne against the throne if Oberyn does go down?

 

with its counter-point,

 

On this show, it is likely that Elaria will be the price Oberyn pays for any success he does achieve.  That's the purpose of loved ones as characters on A Show, most of the time.

 

Sigh.  Of course, if one of them must die -- and I fear at least one must -- both will pay.  It is Shown.

[abelard]

Every word of both your posts about Elaria, shimpy:

 

Just jumping in to claim credit for one of these!

 

Agree, shimpy, Elaria is the only person in KL that Oberyn cares about, which does not bode well for either of them. I have also noted the similarity between her name and Oberyn's late sister Elia, to whom it seems he was very close.  (Maybe Elaria even looks a bit like Elia...*sigh* What I would give to stop thinking "incest" about every other pair of characters on this show.)

[stillshimpy]

(Now that you mention it, perhaps the first sex we've seen on A Show that looks sexy, because mutual in all ways, light-hearted and sensual.)

 

Actually it was remembering the other "Hey, that was actually kind of sexy and appealing...what gives?"  scene that made me start worrying about life seconds for those two. 

 

Robb and Talisa had the only other (to my mind) actually sexy sexy-times.  Or as my husband said when they both perished horribly in sight of the other "Of course they died, they had the only healthy loving sex on this show."  

 

I pointed out that Renly and Loras had also had a loving tryst, but that Renly also was assassinated.  I didn't put this on the "hey, that was sexy sex, the hell?" list because of the protracted shaving, complete with scraping sound and then the fellatio where the Foley Artist went insane playing up the slurp.  Took it out of the running, but they did love each other.  

Edited May 21, 2014 by stillshimpy

[gingerella]

Like many viewers, I would prefer A Show sacrifice Elaria and keep Oberyn, if it is a choice that must be made between one of these characters. But I do hope both stay for awhile as I would like to learn more of Elaria as she appears to speak her mind to higher ups, which I find refreshing in uptight KL, and she does represent the heart and soul of Oberyn.  A man with so many children, has many wives or lovers, and for him to have chosen Elaria to accompany him to KL means something. But what, I'm not yet sure. Does it simply mean he brought his deepest love with him on an extended journey, or does it mean she is more than a lover, perhaps a co-conspirator who can help him seek the justice he craves for his sister?

[Anothermi]

I found I have been thinking about one tiny part of Oberyn's speech to Tyrion about the 1st time they met.   I know that the main point being made was that Oberyn saw Tyrion as another human being and that he knew Cersei hated Tyrion since he was born, but I kept thinking about the fact that Dorne and the Martells have been absent for the 1st 3 seasons of this story or only barely referenced...

 

He started his speech "Our father brought me and my sister Elia with him on a visit to Casterly Rock. My first time away from Dorne. I didn't like anything about the Rock: not the food, not the weather, not your accents, nothing."

 

I understand that the Martell's probably have boycotted King's Landing (and probably the rest of the 7 Kingdoms) since Robert's Rebellion, so that line made me think of how they used to interact with the rest of Westeros BEFORE Robert's Rebellion. 

 

Daddy Martell "brought (his young) children on a trip to visit (Tywin at) Casterly Rock".  The only character I can think of who visits different parts of Westeros for purely 'tourist-y' reasons is Tyrion.  So, why was Papa Martell making a trip to Casterly Rock?  

• So he could ogle the newly born monstrosity, Tyrion? That was, apparently, a big draw for Oberyn but somehow I don't think it was Martell Sr.'s motivation.  
• Perhaps to bring his condolences to Tywin on the loss of his wife? Again, I kind of doubt that unless Tywin was married to a Martell, but I would think Oberyn would have mentioned that if it were the case.

 

1- We've seen Ned take his girls to King's Landing because Sansa was betrothed to the future King and because it was time Arya got to see more of Westeros (and possibly to come into contact with other prospective families to marry into).  

2- Joffrey was brought to Winterfell because his father felt a face-to-face meeting with Ned was necessary to convey his concern about Jon Arryn's death and convince Ned (before he had to order him) to come and be the next Hand of the King and further, to propose the betrothal of their children. (and incidentally, to try to commune with Lyanna at her tomb [/sidebar]).  

3- Myrcella travelled to Dorne to become betrothed to a Martell and to protect her from the possible annihilation of Lannisters by Stannis, pre-Blackwater. 

 

There always seems to be some official reason, and frequently it is betrothal.  So what might be a reason for the Martells to travel to Casterly Rock? The main one that comes to my mind is Papa Martell wanting to discuss the possible betrothal of his daughter to the Targaryen Heir (Rhaegar) with the (then) Hand of the King, Tywin, who would be at Casterly Rock due to the birth of a child or, more likely, the death of his wife. The Mad King may or may not have been quite so mad at that time, but protocol may have been to scope out possible support of the small council? Or maybe he was shopping around and was considering Jaime as a possible son-in-law? Also, I doubt Elia was already married to Rhaegar because then she wouldn't be travelling with her father and her brother, she'd travel with her husband, if anyone, right?

 

I wonder how old Cersei, Jaime, Elia and Oberyn were at this time? It's hard to tell by looking at Tyrion just how much younger he is supposed to be than his siblings but I would surmise a good 5 to 8 years younger?  So at his birth they could have been 5 to 8 years old?  Old enough to show Tyrion off to visiting children (where was Tyrion's caregiver/wet nurse when Cersei was pinching his penis?).  I'm assuming that Oberyn is the baby of his family and that he could be close in age to Cersei and Jaime, perhaps a bit younger but not by much.  That would make his sister older than all of them (I think) so would likely nix the above idea that Jaime was a prospective match, which leaves me with Tywin being the main reason for the visit.  To get him onside with a Targaryen/Martell marriage alliance?

 

It's intriguing to imagine all these characters as younger versions of themselves. (I pictured Oberyn with exactly the same outfit/coat-dress, only smaller, and looking like the 1st Karate Kid. ;-D) After all the devastation we've been subjected to it feels like blessed escapism to imagine that time. 

 

I also wonder how long it was from that visit to the onset of the Mad King's excesses (burning Rickard and Brandon Stark) and the subsequent rebellion?  During that time Jaime turned 16 and joined the King's Guard, Catelyn and Brandon became betrothed, Peter Baylish acquired a sternum-to-gudgeon scar, and Robert became betrothed to Lyanna Stark.  Of course that leads to all sorts of other ponderings, like where was Lyanna Stark prior to the Stark BBQ at King's Landing?  Was she sent off as a ward somewhere as well (like Ned, as we don't have much info on females being sent anywhere but to the home of their betrothed which would have put Lyanna at Storm's End)?  Is that how she (fatefully) encountered Prince Rhaegar? So many questions (and this is not the thread to follow them up on) but then, there is still so much more Show to be seen. 

 

All this food for thought from just one little sentence.  Did anyone else find themselves wondering about that visit?...or have any (unsullied) thoughts about my musings?

 

[stillshimpy]

I can't say that I've been too intrigued by the visit to Casterly Rock, anothermi.  I think it's actually a fairly normal thing for Oberyn's father to have visited Casterly Rock.  I think Dorne and the Seven Kingdoms had an alliance and reasonably good relationships up until Elia and her children were murdered.  Cersei referred to the Martells as hating the Lannisters.  I'm not even sure it was solely about Elia's murder, because they are, after all, the Lannisters.  However, they were also incredibly powerful.  

 

Apparently Dorne was the only country that was able to "resist" (that was the word used, I think, or was it "repel"?) Aegar Targaryen's dragons when the kingdoms were first invaded by the Targs.  That suggests that Dorne and the Martells are a crapload more powerful than the "we like to drink wine, wear silk and accept each other's natural children as equals" might suggest.  That made them sound like a communal wine growers co-op , but the "Targs couldn't conquer them" made it sound a lot more like they get to live in relative peace because they could, if they chose, kick serious ass.  

 

I've been more intrigued by how they were able to resist dragons than I have been by a diplomatic visit to Casterly Rock.  

 

At dinner last night my husband asked who I thought would win, The Mountain or Prince Oberyn.  I don't even have any question in my mind that Oberyn is going to win, The Mountain has been presented to us as being night unto impossible to beat.  Oberyn's sort of slight.  Bronn wasn't sure he could beat him, but I'm sure Oberyn can.  I just don't know how and I don't what kind of price he'll end up paying for having done so.  

 

Plus, I can't even say I'm that interested in seeing the battle, because since it's this show, they'll likely kill a ton of innocent (well, as far as we know) bystanders. 

[gingerella]

I know I am repeating myself here, but it bears repeating:

Fuck.That.Shit.

Seriously. WHY couldnt he have just stabbed the fucker in the head and finished the job? WHY did he have to be a showoff and push it further? WHY couldnt he just have stabbed the fucker in the throat, the heart, whatthefuckEVER?!? ARGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGH! I am so fucking frustrated with A Show. If Tyrion does not escape, I just dont know if I can keep watching. Its just not fun nor entertaining to always see the bad guys win.

A Viewer is so disappointed in A Show right now...

[RadiantAerynSun]

Methinks Oberyn overplayed his... position.

[WhiteStumbler]

I've been more intrigued by how they were able to resist dragons than I have been by a diplomatic visit to Casterly Rock.  

 

After watching Oberyn's fighting style completely OWN The Mountain's lumbering stalk and slash "technique", I have a much better idea of how Dorne resisted the Targaryen conquest. I am assuming that Oberyn's technique is the fighting style in Dorne, and can totally see how an army of similarly trained soldiers would be nearly invincible. Sure, "dragons", but you still need boots on the ground. Speaking of boots, Oberyn nearly won the TbC while a little loaded and wearing high heels. Wow.

 

At dinner last night my husband asked who I thought would win, The Mountain or Prince Oberyn.  I don't even have any question in my mind that Oberyn is going to win, The Mountain has been presented to us as being night unto impossible to beat.  Oberyn's sort of slight.  Bronn wasn't sure he could beat him, but I'm sure Oberyn can.

I was thinking the same thing, and had somehow convinced myself that having Oberyn victorious would be trope-inversion for this show. Nope.

And I. Am. PISSED!

[stillshimpy]

The part that pisses me off the most is that a) a part of me just knew "Oh great, he's a good person.  He has decent and kind impulses.  No way does this story do anything other than punish that."  b) therefore something hideous was going to happen.  

 

I just didn't expect it in that way.  

 

c) even considering all of that?  He's the only charismatic, appealing and decent character the show has produced in ages.  Sure Brienne, I like her a lot.  Sure thing, Pod, also like him, but he's definitely under the heading of "Misfit" also.  

 

I swear sometimes this show feels like George Martin's revenge for a bad social experience in high school.  Anyone likely to be popular with an audience is just freaking doomed.  

[Coxfires]

I too wish that the show/GRRM would subvert the trope once in a while. Loosing Oberyn now felt too soon, and was predictible. I am sure they could have found ways for Tywin and Cersei to still convict Tyrion (if this is the development that will lead to something major, maybe like being the catalyst for Jamie to go against his father and sister), but I didn't have that "Holy fuck" reaction I had for Ned and the RW. This time it was more "And as planned, he'd dead", I feel it is one time too many this time.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Coxfires

[Pallas]

Just jumping in to claim credit for one of these!

 

Yikers, abelard, I apologize!  This seems to be The Spring of Misattribution in my postings, like those other phases where I kept misplacing my keys.  At least I hope it's a phase.  Of the other, when I finally came up with the conclusion, "Whenever I want to lose the way I'm living, I lose my keys," that seemed to take care of it. 

 

Oberyn fair Oberyn.  Forty thousand brothers/Could not with all their quantity of love/Make up my sum./What wilt thou do for her?

 

So now we know.  I agree with shimpy that his demise by Revivified Monster was a "Don't!" from the very first ponderous tome of horror movie Do's and Under-No-Circumstances, Do You Hear Me?  Am I Making Myself Clear?  Repeat Back What I Said!   An homage to the Great Necklace Caper (shot by the same director, I see), in the Maketh No Senseth category.  

 

How very much better and more sadly satisfying would have been abelard and RadiantAerynSun's notion of a "fair duel" subverted by a poisoned blade.  In this case, the Mountain's blade, tainted by Tywin, in a preemptive strike against the expert in poisons. To prevail, the Mountain would have needed only to take one more breath after Oberyn -- after Oberyn, to his own horror, recognized the effects, and succumbed to them.  And the irony, that the expert in poisons, defending a man falsely accused of a poisoning, should himself be poisoned by another culprit.  The man Oberyn would have died trying to name as the perpetrator of a distant, still-sickening crime.

 

The hand of Tywin moving again, as before, through his instrument the Mountain. But instead, a public service spot from Mothers Against Drunk Duelists.

[stillshimpy]

An homage to the Great Necklace Caper (shot by the same director, I see), in the Maketh No Senseth category.

 

I add this to "Skippered by the Mint" as one of my favorite phrasings ever, Pallas.  I miss you when you aren't around :-) 

[abelard]

Pallas, thanks for that lovely Ode to Oberyn.  And also thanks for the endorsement of the potential poisoned-blade plot.  I cannot believe that we got to know so much about Oberyn, like the fact that he'd studied poisons at the Citadel, and that he has eight daughters, and that he goes both ways (all ways), and that he's a smart juror in a trial, and that he's not a snob about social standing and fell hard for a "bastard" - I mean, I even hate that we got to see how charming and handsome and witty and intelligent he was - only to lose him in EPISODE 8.  Ugh.  It almost feels like falling for a boy at summer camp that you just know you'll never see again, like, Why did I even have to meet you if it was going to end up like this?!?!  A Show has broken my heart before (Ned! Robb!), but this one just feels like spite, now.  By that I mean, A Show's spite for me.  Now, it's just fu**ing with me. 

[Anothermi]

Oberyn fair Oberyn.  Forty thousand brothers/Could not with all their quantity of love/Make up my sum./What wilt thou do for her? - Pallas

Oh My!  Welcome back Pallas, you've been missed (in a quiet but intense way).  ;-P  

 

This is the 2nd Shakespeare reference I've read (or is it the 3rd? and was the other one Hamlet as well?).  I'm thinking I'm going to have to bone up on my Shakespeare to fully appreciate GMMR's sub-themes.  Great Fun.  Thanks for bringing it up.

[RadiantAerynSun]

Oberyn would have been smarter if he had poisoned his blade with something, told the Mountain as much & that he had the antidote IF ONLY he would confess his sins and name Tywin. The whole time he kept demanding The Mountain confess I was like um,e xactly what incentive does he have to do this?? Especially if you are about to kill him? Nothing in it for him, and I can't blame him for wanting to deny you the satisfaction. If he just had been more realistic he would never have bothered to try to get the Mountain to confess. Cuz really, wasn't happening. Duh, Oberyn.

[Pallas]

Aww, thank you, tribemates.  "Before Unsullied...nothing."  Before Unsullied?  No one!  

 

Oberyn would have been smarter if he had poisoned his blade with something, told the Mountain as much & that he had the antidote IF ONLY he would confess his sins and name Tywin. -- RadiantAerynSun

 

Oberyn would have been smarter if his sister had no brother -- gah, I reel. Out-fought and out-foxed by the Tickle-Me-Mountain!  

 

It almost feels like falling for a boy at summer camp that you just know you'll never see again -- abelard 

 

How perfect.  

 

That line from The Singing Detective, when the pustular protagonist marvels to his nurse, "I know who you are...You're the girl in the songs."  Prince Oberyn Martell of Dorne: the breath in the wine.  

[stillshimpy]

Oberyn would have been smarter if his sister had no brother -- gah, I reel. Out-fought and out-foxed by the Tickle-Me-Mountain!

 

This actually part of what makes it even more distressing, Oberyn was not merely killed, he was outwitted by a man who seemed one shade of Kermit away from yelling "Hulk Smash!" at all times.  All brawn, seemingly no actual thought process other than "Kill! Maim! Destroy! Get the Woodland Creature! "

 

That The Mountain had more presence of mind in that moment that Oberyn did is the most cutting blow of all. 

[Pallas]

I know!  The only flaw in Radiant's plan is that it would have required Oberyn to explain it to The Molehill.  

 

What an antidote is, and how it works; what a Dornish accent is, and how the words still mean the same thing...with Tywin, meanwhile, signaling the band to play him off (as he did Pycelle), and Tyrion and Jaime exchanging side-eyes that say, "This is Cousin Orson deja vu, all over again..."

[ChocButterfly]

When did they say Oberyn had 8 (!) daughters? And what about a wife, does he have one? If he doesn't and dornish are so liberal as he said, why didn't he marry Elaria?

Edited June 6, 2014 by ChocButterfly

[Llywela]

When did they say Oberyn had 8 (!) daughters? And what about a wife, does he have one? If he doesn't and dornish are so liberal as he said, why didn't he marry Elaria?

When Cersei was doing the rounds of the jury for Tyrion's trial, trying to get them all onside, she had a cosy little chat with Oberyn about how Myrcella is getting on in Dorne, and he mentioned his 8 daughters during that conversation - he said the last time he saw Myrcella she was swimming with some of his daughters.

 

He has not, however, to my recollection at least, mentioned whether or not he is married or if there is any particular reason why Ellaria is (was) his paramour rather than his wife.

 

I kind of loved him just for using the word 'paramour', never mind anything else. Alas poor Oberyn.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Llywela

[ChocButterfly]

Oh, thanx, Llywela. Why do I keep missing these details? I don't know!

Great, now I hope all these daugthers and extended family start planning his avenging.