S01.E21: An Apple Red as Blood

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Henry pleads with Emma to stay in Storybrooke and continue her quest as the savior of the fairytale dwellers, and Regina concocts a plan that could rid her of Emma forever. Meanwhile, back in the fairytale land that was, Snow White enlists the aid of her fellow fairytale cohorts to attack the Evil Queen and save Prince Charming's life.

[Shanna Marie]

It's funny how Regina's nightmare ends up being

Spoiler

more realistic for how people would respond to her evil than anything we actually saw in subsequent seasons

And we get a potential redemption Strike One, when instead of that nightmare making her think twice about how she treats people, she doubles down and does more evil.

This seems to be when Regina's Tears join the main credits cast, and the episode seems to be trying to make her sympathetic, but she bring about her own downfall, first by not cluing in when Rumple warns her she can have her curse or she can have Henry, then later when Emma is planning to leave, but Regina decides to go through with poisoning her.

Meanwhile, Mother of the Year doesn't seem to have noticed that her child was out all night. Emma came dragging in while Mary Margaret was getting ready in the morning, so did Henry manage to sneak back in before Regina got him up for school, or did Emma take him straight to school and Regina didn't think anything of not seeing her son before school in the morning?

I wonder what Snow thought she did to ruin Regina's life before she found out that Daniel was killed.

[profdanglais]

The fairies' attack is one of the funniest things this show has ever produced. In fact, the whole attack on the castle is pretty hilarious. I do love how they play it completely straight, though, like it's not just a handful of people against an army. 

[Rumsy4]

18 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I wonder what Snow thought she did to ruin Regina's life before she found out that Daniel was killed.

Yeah. That made no sense. Why did she go around saying that sh did ruin Regina's life if she didn't know about Daniel?

Spoiler

And didn't Jefferson know about Daniel? I guess that was a later retcon.

Archie suddenly saying that Emma would never get custody of Henry, and that he'd been wrong to encourage the bond between Emma and Henry was so contrived. It was just there to crank up the drama.

[Camera One]

7 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Archie suddenly saying that Emma would never get custody of Henry, and that he'd been wrong to encourage the bond between Emma and Henry was so contrived. It was just there to crank up the drama.

The Writers can justify that by saying - Curse Identity!

Quote

Yeah. That made no sense. Why did she go around saying that sh did ruin Regina's life if she didn't know about Daniel?

Assignment #1 - Explain how this episode's flashbacks fit with Snow's letter to Regina in "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter":

Dearest Stepmother – by the time you read this, I will be dead. I understand that you will never have love in your life because of me, so it’s only fitting that I’ll be denied that same joy as well. For the sake of the kingdom, I hope my death satisfies your need for revenge – allowing you to rule my father’s subjects as they deserve. With compassion and a gentle hand. I know what you think you’re doing is vengeance – I prefer to think of it as sacrifice, for the good of all. With that in mind, I welcome the end. I want you to take my last message to heart. I’m sorry and I forgive you.

Be sure to explain what Snow was apologizing for, and why Snow believed it was her fault that Regina would never have love in her life. 

Good luck!

Edited August 11, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

11 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Archie suddenly saying that Emma would never get custody of Henry, and that he'd been wrong to encourage the bond between Emma and Henry was so contrived. It was just there to crank up the drama.

Thank you! It kind of goes against what Archie said in 1x05 about being able to judge who's the fit parent. Emma might not be able to prove that Regina attempted to murder Kathryn and frame Mary Margaret, but Archie is well aware of Regina is capable of. "Oh geez, sorry, you're just going to have to work it out with her" is a load of BS. Henry is not safe with an abusive parent like her, whether Emma is fit to be a mother or not. That conversation only existed to get Emma to accept the apple turnover.

The apple turnover of death is one of the show's best modern twists on a fairy tale. I'd rate Henry collapsing on the floor as one of the show's best cliffhangers.

The flashbacks with Snow eating the apple like a gullible idiot just don't hold up that well. It was really contrived for being something so pivotal to the Snow White fairy tale. Instead of doing the forgetting potion, Regina could've appeared as a hag and said the apple would erase the memories of Charming as well. Then oops - she falls over and Charming goes to save her. That's what Enchanted did, although Giselle was much more naive than Snow.

Edited August 11, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Thank you! It kind of goes against what Archie said in 1x05 about being able to judge who's the fit parent.

How did you retain your memories of the fifth episode?  The DVDs were supposed to release memory spells so your recollections of the previous discs would be hazy.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

How did you retain your memories of the fifth episode?  The DVDs were supposed to release memory spells so your recollections of the previous discs would be hazy.

 

Don't worry - S2 is around the corner. We'll have our memories of the entire first season gone before you can say "lasagna". 

Edited August 11, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

18 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Assignment #1 - Explain how this episode's flashbacks fit with Snow's letter to Regina in "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter":

Dearest Stepmother – by the time you read this, I will be dead. I understand that you will never have love in your life because of me, so it’s only fitting that I’ll be denied that same joy as well. For the sake of the kingdom, I hope my death satisfies your need for revenge – allowing you to rule my father’s subjects as they deserve. With compassion and a gentle hand. I know what you think you’re doing is vengeance – I prefer to think of it as sacrifice, for the good of all. With that in mind, I welcome the end. I want you to take my last message to heart. I’m sorry and I forgive you.

Be sure to explain what Snow was apologizing for, and why Snow believed it was her fault that Regina would never have love in her life. 

Good luck!

I know I'm going to fail this assignment, but I'll try. 

Snow knew that it was her fault Regina had been forced to marry her father, who, despite appearances, had been a tyrannical husband. And she had been a brat to Regina. So, she deserved to die, just like her father.

Spoiler

She also knew that by marrying Leopold, Regina lost the opportunity to marry her soulmate. You see, in an unseen flashback, Tink ran down Snow in the Land of Weird Mushrooms and told her all about Robin, and explained why it was Snow's fault that Regina had failed to take a chance at love, and caused Tink to lose her wings.

There, is that a good explanation? ;-p

The death count of the bad guys was pretty high. Snow, Red, Granny, and the dwarfs were pretty ruthless in cutting down their enemies. Grumpy's "Uh, Red, you've got a little something on your chin." Iconic.

Spoiler

This was back when the writers actually allowed Snow White to use her sword. Was this pretty much the last time? Sad. 

[Shanna Marie]

38 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

The death count of the bad guys was pretty high. Snow, Red, Granny, and the dwarfs were pretty ruthless in cutting down their enemies. Grumpy's "Uh, Red, you've got a little something on your chin." Iconic.

Even better, I think the line was "You've got a little someone on your chin."

The assault on the castle is interesting, especially in light of

Spoiler

the whole "heroes don't kill people" thing that no one ever contradicted.

Regina's behavior with Charming in this episode was brought up in discussion of the earlier episode when Regina attempted to seduce David, but I don't think it's so much a sign of Regina having a thing for him as it is her general tendency to creep all over any man she has in her power. There's this and the Huntsman/Graham, as well as, later

Spoiler

Hook and Aladdin

I suspect that any specific interest she had in Charming was akin to her interest in David, where it wasn't so much about interest in him as it was the ultimate way to strike at Snow.

Snow knew Daniel had left, but I don't think she knew why or that it had anything to do with her talking to Cora. If Snow thought Daniel had just left, even if she thought it was her fault, I'm not sure how that translated to it being her fault that Regina could never have love, unless maybe she thought Regina had only married her father because of her. But then that's Regina's choice rather than being Snow's fault. No matter how I parse it, it's hard to think of a reason Snow might have believed Regina hated her or that she might have thought she ruined Regina's life, aside from maybe something like a child believing her parents' divorce is all her fault. The problem is, even if she'd known the real reason, it's hard to imagine her actually believing she'd ruined Regina's life, so it's even harder to imagine her believing that based on anything she did know.

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Even better, I think the line was "You've got a little someone on your chin."

Oops yeah. He definitely said someone. I was lazy and copied it from an episode transcript, and apparently didn't read through what I was copying. 

[Camera One]

It might be a case of finding a joke they couldn't let go of.  That was a really good line.  But if their "world" is one where heroes don't kill (which I personally don't have a problem with), then they needed to embed that into everything they write.  But as usual, they were all over the place which ultimately created the impression of hypocrisy and contradiction.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

15 minutes ago, Camera One said:

But if their "world" is one where heroes don't kill (which I personally don't have a problem with), then they needed to embed that into everything they write.

I don't think they'd come up with "heroes don't kill" yet. We were still in the mode where heroes were allowed to be badass, and it was good that they went into battle to save someone.

[tennisgurl]

I am clearly messed up, because I re-watched that nightmare of Regina's possibly more than once. Honestly, it seems like a pretty legit reaction to all the shit Regina has pulled over the years. And, of course, it just leads to her trying to kill Emma, and not reevaluation her life and how much she has screwed herself over in her mad quest for revenge. 

Spoiler

Knowing that Regina will never get her comeuppance for all that she did, and besides a few angry shouts in early season 2, no one ever showed the appropriate amount of anger towards her, especially for people known to pull out the touches and pitchforks from time to time. I guess I should be happy I can at least get that bit of satisfaction, even if its just a dream sequence. 

I really do like this episode. The flashbacks are exciting, and while its pretty ridiculous of Snow to believe that Regina would ever buy that Regina would let Charming go if she ate the death apple, I do like the twist on the apple coma. And the fight scene with the gang storming the castle is both hilarious (the fairies swarming in like bees!) and badass (you got someone on you), and its just a kickass bit of magic action fun. And Charming being in the mirror in Regina's castle is classic super-villain. I forgot how much I really loved Snow and Charming this season, I really felt their love for each other, and the frustrating of feeling like the whole world was against them. And I like seeing Jefferson again, and Henry is at his most endearing. There is some frustrating things in Storeybrooke, as per usual, but I mostly enjoy it a lot. I do get frustrated at how Emma just will not believe anything, despite all of the weird stuff she keeps seeing, her alleged superpower, and how two grown men that have no connection to him seem to have the same super specific delusion as her son. I wish this had her more slowly coming to the realization that Henry was telling the truth. 

Yeah, interesting how many guards the heroes were taking out left and right. I dont think those guys Red mauled in wolf form, or that guy Grumpy put an ax through are getting up and waling that off. 

Spoiler

Guess they hadn't committed to the whole "heroes dont kill ever every even if not killing costs most lives" thing yet. Or its only a big deal if its a known psychopath, and not a random no name guard. 

I love the poisoned apple turn over. Its such a great modern twist on a fairytale. 

[andromeda331]

I love the assault on the castle too. It was really cool looking. I never liked Snow giving in and eating the apple because Regina promised to leave David alone because as others have said why would Snow believe that? Its like with Jefferson why would he believe Regina? I loved Henry in this episode. I really loved the dream sequence and wish it had happened. To think at the time I thought Regina's comeuppance was going to be so much better. I loved Henry as part of the crowd and Charming handing Emma his sword to kill Regina. Regina should have paid for her crimes. Even if they ended up redeeming her or trying. She still should have paid first.

Edited August 11, 2018 by andromeda331

[daxx]

That dream sequence just makes me wish the Charmings had been a bit slower heading off the mob and we could have seen her really tied up by the mob.