Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House" Series

[PrincessLuceval]

OH! That reminds me of another time Pa's talking out of his ass. When the Boasts are there for Christmas dinner, Mr. Boast says something about "I never hope to eat a better Christmas dinner," complimenting Ma's cooking. And Pa goes off on this tangent: "Well, it's the first Christmas dinner anybody ever ate in this part of the country. I'm glad it was a good one. In time to come, no doubt a good many folks will celebrate Christmas around here (ooh, he's a soothsayer!) and I expect they'll have fancier fixings in some ways, but I don't know how they can have more solid comfort than we've got, and that's a fact." Because the "solid comfort" is the surveyors' house, which they're living in, free, eating the surveyors' leftover peaches and pickles.

[Snow Apple]

When the long winter was over and the store was filled with food, I wonder if they used Mary's college money to pay for that Thanksgiving in May. That's why they had to start over and Laura had to work starting in the next book. So much for Pa's "If I have to use the college money, you can be sure I'll pay it back." which was said earlier in the book.

 

This thread has made me see so many things!

[kikismom]

Frankly, I've often wondered if the railroad company really did offer Charles Ingalls a chance to stay in the surveyor's house and eat all the food and burn all the coal they wanted. We only have his word on it; the family doesn't move over there until everyone is gone. And they leave before the railroad men come back.

 

Just think about this---he says they want him to stay and guard their tools---and he's the brother-in-law of the guy who stole their tools at the last camp! And Charles probably helped! (look at the size of those scrapers in the illustration; "Uncle Hi" didn't lift those onto the wagons by himself.)

 

It's not impossible that Pa made up the whole thing. Remember he tore down their barracks and store and office building for the lumber. Some guard!

[PrincessLuceval]

Actually, I think it's written somewhere that the railroad really let them live there, but they had to pay for the use of everything and all of the food that was left. I'm not sure where I read it, probably in the same place I learned about the real long winter and the lazy ass boarder and his knocked up wife they had living with them.

 

When it's dissected, the Ingalls family's lives certainly take on a darker turn. 

[nodorothyparker]

IIRC, the book says the turkey and all the trimmings for Christmas in May came from Rev. Alden's church barrel from the church back in Minnesota or wherever.  Whether that's actually true or not I have no idea, but the implication is that they were taking charity from a church they'd long since left.  Which makes it all the more interesting that Laura is so derisive of Nellie Olsen, whose pretty clothes also supposedly come from a charity barrel.

[nodorothyparker]

And then passively making Ma out to be a bitch, and Mary, too.

 

These Happy Golden Years sort of implies that both tried to either talk her out of marrying Almanzo or at least delaying it for awhile.  I always wondered what the real story was there too but haven't ever been able to find much of anything about it.  In light of what we now know about Charles, you have to wonder if they weren't both worried about her not earning any more money for the family.

Edited August 9, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[kikismom]

Oooh! Interesting and one I didn't know before. We must find out more! :-)

 

I do remember some argument between Ma and Pa about the end of his railroad job, and him saying they'd have to stay or go back East and Ma was mad about how that would use up all the money he made all summer.

Which made me wonder: didn't they think of that before? What were they expecting to do? I didn't understand why this seemed to come as a surprise turn of events; oh yeah there's this thing called winter and we don't have a house or food.

If it wasn't for the surveyor's house they'd be screwed (again). There was no talk of Ma and the girls staying on the farm at Plum Creek, and letting Pa earn money at the Dakota site and then come home with it. (Which would have been a better idea. After the grasshopper trouble was over, Minnesota was a far better place for a farm than De Smet.)

[kikismom]

Actually, I think it's written somewhere that the railroad really let them live there, but they had to pay for the use of everything and all of the food that was left. I'm not sure where I read it, probably in the same place I learned about the real long winter and the lazy ass boarder and his knocked up wife they had living with them.

 

When it's dissected, the Ingalls family's lives certainly take on a darker turn. 

 

 

These Happy Golden Years sort of implies that both tried to either talk her out of marrying Almanzo or at least delaying it for awhile.  I always wondered what the real story was there too but haven't ever been able to find much of anything about it.  In light of what we now know about Charles, you have to wonder if they weren't both worried about her not earning any more money for the family.

Yes, notice (I think I may have posted this before) that Pa only holds the farm in De Smet for one year after Laura marries; then they move into town (3rd st house).

 

Ma said "It begins to look like a farm", and just as they get it going (as with every other place they lived!) Pa gives up again.

 

 

(messed up my quotes, sorry!)

Edited August 10, 2014 by kikismom

[nodorothyparker]

Mary refers to Almanzo as "that Wilder boy" and asks if she seriously wants to marry him and can't she at least wait a year or so when Mary will be home again.  Laura very pointedly replies that she's done teaching school and wants her own home.  I've always thought there had to have been more to that conversation.

 

And yeah, what was the deal with the whole family heading out to the railroad camp with seemingly no thought about what they'd do when the camps closed down for the winter?  Charles never had any trouble leaving them behind for work before in Banks of Plum Creek.  Is it possible he couldn't leave the family there because then the bill collectors would know where they were?  Silver Lake does start out talking about they'd racked up doctors bills and we know he still hadn't paid for the house they were living in.

Edited August 10, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[Snow Apple]

IIRC, the book says the turkey and all the trimmings for Christmas in May came from Rev. Alden's church barrel from the church back in Minnesota or wherever.  Whether that's actually true or not I have no idea, but the implication is that they were taking charity from a church they'd long since left.  Which makes it all the more interesting that Laura is so derisive of Nellie Olsen, whose pretty clothes also supposedly come from a charity barrel.

I remember the turkey and cranberries came from the Rev, but they brought the rest. I remember bread stuffing, potatoes, and fixings for white bread and cake (there may be more). I don't blame them for buying food since that's a necessity of life, but Pa shouldn't keep promising to pay back when he had no intention of doing that ever. Mary even told them to take it and he didn't have to promise anything but it seems big words are just his way.

[nodorothyparker]

You're right.  The white flour and something else came from the store.  No word on how they paid for it.

I think they do still have Mary's money in LTOTP though or at Mary thinks they do because she's still going on about it. 

[kikismom]

nodorothyparker: Good point; as with Indian Territory, the moving was less because they had no choice and more because Pa makes the same mistakes every time--starting with buying everything on credit.

Now you've made me wonder if he was even craftier than we suspected? Every time Pa defaults and they have to move...they end up a little farther west. Which is where he wanted to be. Or, was it the reverse? The story of his western wanderlust to cover for being on the lam from creditors and---as was mentioned with his non-service to his country during wartime, he kept finding the borders of US jurisdiction. I remember when Boast or somebody had his ox-team stolen, they seemed to know exactly how far away the nearest sheriff/marshall was. (and it was far!)

Which makes me wonder about the "job guarding the surveyor's house".  Even if Pa had to pay for the coal and the food they used, the need for a guard was at least partly because Uncle Hi and Aunt Polly took 3 wagonloads of company tools and merchandise. Which benefitted them and created a job for Charles! (who I suspect was an accomplice). That worked out neatly.

 

Oh and regarding marriage, earlier Laura asks Ma how many terms of school she taught and says what happened then? and Ma says I met your Pa. Then Laura thinks maybe she could meet someone and then she wouldn't have to teach school anymore. It just gets more and more romantic, doesn't it?

Edited August 10, 2014 by kikismom

[PrincessLuceval]

Flour, dried apples, raisins, baking soda (saleratus) and yeast, sugar....that's just off the top of my head as to what they were making for the "feast." Pies and cakes, light bread, cranberry jelly.

 

I wonder what it was like at the store when Pa went - were there so many supplies that people didn't feel the need to knock each other over to get them? Wouldn't that have run out too? I realize the trains had been frozen in, but I wonder if some of the supplies had spoiled?

 

And another Pa moment, when he's being generous with other people's stuff: when they open the barrel from the church back east, and they're pulling out the various items, there's a dress for Ma. Pa generously gives it to her. "This looks to be your size," he beamed."Here, take it!" Why, thanks for letting her have it, jerk. Like it was yours to decide who gets the charity. GAH.

[smittykins]

nodorothyparker: Good point; as with Indian Territory, the moving was less because they had no choice and more because Pa makes the same mistakes every time--starting with buying everything on credit.

Now you've made me wonder if he was even craftier than we suspected? Every time Pa defaults and they have to move...they end up a little farther west. Which is where he wanted to be. Or, was it the reverse? The story of his western wanderlust to cover for being on the lam from creditors and---as was mentioned with his non-service to his country during wartime, he kept finding the borders of US jurisdiction. I remember when Boast or somebody had his ox-team stolen, they seemed to know exactly how far away the nearest sheriff/marshall was. (and it was far!)

Which makes me wonder about the "job guarding the surveyor's house".  Even if Pa had to pay for the coal and the food they used, the need for a guard was at least partly because Uncle Hi and Aunt Polly took 3 wagonloads of company tools and merchandise. Which benefitted them and created a job for Charles! (who I suspect was an accomplice). That worked out neatly.

 

On another message board, someone said that they basically left Plum Creek under cover of darkness, leaving behind a boatload of debt(did they do this other times as well?).  I always did think it was a little too convenient that in the book, a neighbor offered to buy their property for two hundred dollars and "square up all we owe."

[kikismom]

On another message board, someone said that they basically left Plum Creek under cover of darkness, leaving behind a boatload of debt(did they do this other times as well?).  I always did think it was a little too convenient that in the book, a neighbor offered to buy their property for two hundred dollars and "square up all we owe."

They left Burr Oak Iowa under cover of darkness having not paid their rent.

They supposedly left Kansas/Indian Territory because the cavalry was coming to throw them off the land. But they were not on government land, at least 3 miles from it, and people who stayed got to keep their land. But Charles had got all that lumber and windows and a plow and seeds etc etc on credit and was hoping for money from back home in Wisconsin that wasn't coming after all. So he leaves everything and they take off at dawn.

If it was the soldiers, why wouldn't you at least take the plow and tools and the glass windows even?

And if it was just needing to go back to Wisconsin (which is where they really went first, not Plum Creek.) again why wouldn't you take stuff? Why would you have to leave in less than 24 hours and take just your clothes and the children and a bag of hard-tack?

Either way it doesn't make sense.

 

Did you know the Ingalls lived for a year in Missouri? And that didn't work out either (obviously), and Burr Oak isn't the only place they lived in Iowa. Laura mentions 3 or 4 places in Iowa.

Edited August 10, 2014 by kikismom

[kikismom]

Flour, dried apples, raisins, baking soda (saleratus) and yeast, sugar....that's just off the top of my head as to what they were making for the "feast." Pies and cakes, light bread, cranberry jelly.

 

I wonder what it was like at the store when Pa went - were there so many supplies that people didn't feel the need to knock each other over to get them? Wouldn't that have run out too? I realize the trains had been frozen in, but I wonder if some of the supplies had spoiled?

 

And another Pa moment, when he's being generous with other people's stuff: when they open the barrel from the church back east, and they're pulling out the various items, there's a dress for Ma. Pa generously gives it to her. "This looks to be your size," he beamed."Here, take it!" Why, thanks for letting her have it, jerk. Like it was yours to decide who gets the charity. GAH.

I bet Ma was thinking Oh boy thanks you big spender.

 

Anyone else remember in BTSOSL when all the homesteader men are showing up and Pa is--once again--acting like Diamond Jim Brady and doesn't want to charge them for meals (!) and Ma (who with Mrs.Boast and Laura) has to do all the cooking and dishwashing and serving tables says they will so charge them, a quarter each meal.

It's one of those passages that when reading I can see it in my head. Garth Williams never illustrated that sequence but I have a very clear picture of Ma with smoke coming out of her ears.

Especially galling when he is so magnanimous with complete strangers, but let's his daughters live on coarse bread and tea for 3 months because he won't butcher the calf unless he needs to. I wish Laura had asked how bad it would get to be bad enough.

 

Don't forget Mary and Carrie don't help feed the homesteaders. One of them could have watched Grace while the other washed dishes at least. Jeez.

[sgittinger]

Actually, Uncle Hi was Aunt Docia's 2nd husband. Uncle Henry was Ma's brother and Aunt Polly was Pa's sister; Uncle Peter was Pa's brother and Aunt Eliza was Ma's sister.

[kikismom]

Actually, Uncle Hi was Aunt Docia's 2nd husband. Uncle Henry was Ma's brother and Aunt Polly was Pa's sister; Uncle Peter was Pa's brother and Aunt Eliza was Ma's sister.

Thanks, I couldn't keep them all straight!

[sgittinger]

I was in College before I figured out they were all related. Don't judge me.

 

Shut up, Mary, you annoying prisspot beeyotch. Nobody likes you.

 

What annoyed me the most about mline Mary was the fact that all she did was hold Grace in her lap and amuse her. Not like that, pervs.

Edited August 10, 2014 by sgittinger

[Snow Apple]

If I suddenly went blind, I probably can't do much without training. But couldn't Mary at least knead dough or cut up veggies or dry the dishes or hang the laundry? And why does she always get the warmest spot of the house?

[PrincessLuceval]

I always thought that Lena and Gene were Hiram's kids, and Docia married a widower. Actually Lena and Gene were hers from her first marriage to a Walvogel. I can't find whether or not he died or she left him. Hiram's her second husband. And then in some other reading I found that she and Hiram tried to leave Lena and Gene at different orphanages. Really, this family was screwed. up.

 

Oops, found out about the first husband. He accidentally shot someone breaking into their house, and was sent to prison. Docia divorced him. She was pregnant with Gene. 

 

Now in the game of fact vs historical fiction, Laura makes no mention of Lena until the move to De Smet. However, Lena's a year older than Laura, and they all lived together in the Big Woods. I'm learning so much revisiting this!!

Edited August 10, 2014 by PrincessLuceval

[kikismom]

Tried to leave them at different orphanages?! Just...wow.

 

I read some LIW fanwebsite where there was an interview with the descendants of one of Ma's sisters and they said their family always called the Ingalls  "shiftless white trash" types. They also said Charles had "a problem with liquor".

Of course that could just be horse hockey but considering what we are learning it sounds legit.

[PrincessLuceval]

Hmmm, maybe that's why Laura wrote the story about Tay Pay Pryor so amusingly.

 

Which leads me to another thing - TP Pryor was actually Mary Power's dad, the tailor. He had a drinking problem. Laura just changed the name a little to protect her friend's reputation.

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Something that always bugged about LHOTP: As they're leaving their home, they see some settlers whose horses had been stolen. As they ride away, Charles snorts, refers to them as "tenderfeet" and disgustedly recounts how they "tied their horses up with ropes!"

What exactly were they supposed to tie their horses up with??? I could never figure that out.

[PrincessLuceval]

Chains and padlocks? Or maybe just take them to bed with you? :)

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Chains and padlocks? Or maybe just take them to bed with you? :)

Paging Catherine the Great...

[kikismom]

Something that always bugged about LHOTP: As they're leaving their home, they see some settlers whose horses had been stolen. As they ride away, Charles snorts, refers to them as "tenderfeet" and disgustedly recounts how they "tied their horses up with ropes!"

What exactly were they supposed to tie their horses up with??? I could never figure that out.

• Silk neckties
• Feather boas
• Pashmina!
• Spiderwebs
• Baling wire
• Thread a needle and string them together like peppers
• Braid their manes together like onions

 

Wasn't Pa friends later in the series with Jerry the half-breed horse-thief? Then tips Big Jerry off to stay away from the camp because the men are lying in wait for him. Bet he knew about how to keep your horses from being stolen from the wrong sources; Pa's brother stole a cow.

[Sharpie66]

My favorite story about Lena was the fact that, after BTSOSL was published, she was reading the book, and then realized that she was the "Lena" in the book! She had no idea thar LIW was her cousin until that moment. She was able to contact Laura through the publisher and they reconnected a few years before Lena passed away.

One of my favorite things about the series as a whole is the way that LIW uses music throughout. If you get the chance, there have been two albums released of current folk/country/bluegrass artists covering the songs that she mentions, Happy Land and The Arkansas Traveler. In Happy Land, they found recordings made back in 1925 by a gentleman who was a close analogue of Pa--born only a few years after Charles and just 20 miles down the road from his birthplace in NY, this man also learned the fiddle on his own, moved west (IIRC, to MN), where he became known for his entertaining skills. He survived long enough to record for the Edison Studio with his piano-playing daughter, and really give a feel for how Pa might have sounded.

[kikismom]

My favorite story about Lena was the fact that, after BTSOSL was published, she was reading the book, and then realized that she was the "Lena" in the book! She had no idea thar LIW was her cousin until that moment. She was able to contact Laura through the publisher and they reconnected a few years before Lena passed away.

One of my favorite things about the series as a whole is the way that LIW uses music throughout. If you get the chance, there have been two albums released of current folk/country/bluegrass artists covering the songs that she mentions, Happy Land and The Arkansas Traveler. In Happy Land, they found recordings made back in 1925 by a gentleman who was a close analogue of Pa--born only a few years after Charles and just 20 miles down the road from his birthplace in NY, this man also learned the fiddle on his own, moved west (IIRC, to MN), where he became known for his entertaining skills. He survived long enough to record for the Edison Studio with his piano-playing daughter, and really give a feel for how Pa might have sounded.

That's a great story!---I wonder how Lena felt when she read Ma Ingalls less-than-approving words. (I'll bet she didn't give a hoot!)

 

I'm going to keep an eye on Ebay for those albums; maybe my local library could get them in on request. It would be a good idea for them since the LH books are such favorites with children (and us grown-ups analyzing them! :-D)

[smittykins]

I read some LIW fanwebsite where there was an interview with the descendants of one of Ma's sisters and they said their family always called the Ingalls  "shiftless white trash" types. They also said Charles had "a problem with liquor".

 

Wonder if that was why Pa had no problem with Laura laughing at the Tay Pay Pryor incident?(And it took me *way* longer than it should have to figure out "Tay Pay" was supposed to be "T.P.")

Edited August 10, 2014 by smittykins

[Sharpie66]

Here is the Amazon link to Happy Land: http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Land-Musical-Tributes-Ingalls/dp/B000J3FHBK/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1407683436&sr=1-1&keywords=happy+land

There is a third album in the series, Pa's Fiddle, which I just found out and have added to my cart there.

Also, some PBS stations have been showing a pledge-week show called "Pa's Fiddle" with some of these artists as well as others (I was really pleased to see the a capella group Committed show up!).

[BatmanBeatles]

 

And why does she always get the warmest spot of the house?

I'm going to assume it's because the family were over protective of Mary since her illness.

 

 

I read some LIW fanwebsite where there was an interview with the descendants of one of Ma's sisters and they said their family always called the Ingalls  "shiftless white trash" types.

It makes the "Country girls" comment from Nellie seen different.

Edited August 11, 2014 by BatmanBeatles

[Snow Apple]

I always wondered why Almanzo courted Laura since Eliza Jane must have told him stories. He must know of their dislike of each other. Learning from this thread that Charles stole her land and build a store (using stolen lumber) on top of it makes it even stranger. The book makes Charles sound like a respected member of the community (a leader even), but I wonder what the other townsfolk really think of him and his family. Or do they even know of his shady actions?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Snow Apple

[kikismom]

There is some mention in Laura and Rose's later papers that Almanzo was actually going to ask another girl if he could walk her home that night from church. I think the story is that he was reaching out but the crowd was moving too fast and he tapped the wrong shoulder? Then he went through with it. Laura makes quite a bit of mention in her personal papers of really wanting Cap Wilder to be the one, and even that she had a long crush on handsome Ben Woodward but that he never was interested in her.He became quite a success in life at an early age and she would have been well-off.

I wonder how much of it was steered by Pa? In Pioneer Girl she tells of parties at the house in town that Pa would put together for the young people and some surprising involvement in kissing games in front of the group and Pa encouraging her. (Yeah, I know!)

Pa did know about the prosperous Wilder family in Minnesota from those letters he snooped in, I wouldn't be surprised if Almanzo and Ben were his candidates for a marriage that would hopefully set them all up. This sounds cynical, but there are snippets of writings from people who knew the family who wrote that Mary's blindness affected the parents badly--not mentioning her illness but "because they had such high hopes for her". Well what the hell does that mean? Mary was very young when she lost her sight. What was it about her that was the cause of high hopes? She may have been smart, but so was Laura, and it wasn't as if any daughter of theirs (or anyone else) was going to be Thomas Edison. Was it that golden hair, the girl the storekeepers and everyone else talked about being so pretty and not saying anything about Laura? I hate to be suspicious, but look at the way Laura was expected to bring home income---those girls were thought of as in regard to what they could do for the family. There's also a lot of mention of Ma in her later years breaking down into tears with her lady friends and crying that "everything would have been alright if only we hadn't lost Freddie!" I wish I could know more about that.

I don't know if any of this helps; but neither Almanzo nor Laura thought of each other as their first choice. I do wonder if anything else was involved.

[nodorothyparker]

The more of this I read, the more desperately I want to get my hands on a copy of Pioneer Girl.  It's frustrating trying to piece all this together from various biographies.

[Brn2bwild]

Though in fairness, what the Ingalls family presumably wanted for Mary wasn't so different from, say, what the Bennets of Pride and Prejudice wanted for Lizzie or Jane.  Families of daughters in less than ideal circumstances back then would have hoped their daughters married well not just for their sakes, but also for the family.  

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

There's also a lot of mention of Ma in her later years breaking down into tears with her lady friends and crying that "everything would have been alright if only we hadn't lost Freddie!" I wish I could know more about that.

Maybe they were counting on a son to eventually be their breadwinner. Laura's always portrayed as kind of a tomboy; maybe their attention turned to her because she was the closest thing they had to a son besides Freddie. Of course, this would be grossly unfair to Laura (and would have been equally unfair to Freddie, had he lived), but evidence seems to suggest that Charles and Caroline weren't the most altruistic people in the world, which is all the more reason for her to get the hell out of there when she did.

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

Though in fairness, what the Ingalls family presumably wanted for Mary wasn't so different from, say, what the Bennets of Pride and Prejudice wanted for Lizzie or Jane.  Families of daughters in less than ideal circumstances back then would have hoped their daughters married well not just for their sakes, but also for the family.  

Yeah, I'm not going to bust their balls for that.  Daughters couldn't help with the heavy farm work the way sons could, so what's the next best thing?  Marrying well.  Ma was priming her daughters for marriage, and for a while, Mary was the pony to bet on; she was conventionally attractive, and took ladylike activities much more seriously than Laura.  Hell, Ma probably thought "Mary will have the marriage I never had".  Then she went blind, and hopes were dashed.  Whoops.

 

 

In Pioneer Girl she tells of parties at the house in town that Pa would put together for the young people and some surprising involvement in kissing games in front of the group and Pa encouraging her. (Yeah, I know!)

Wait, what?  What the hell kind of pervert was Pa?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Wait, what?  What the hell kind of pervert was Pa?

It was traditional in some cultures for the parents to be involved in their children's courtship activities. For instance, I understand that when a couple was married in Sicily as late the early-mid 20th century, the bride's parents would accompany the new couple on their honeymoon for the express purpose of making sure the new couple's sex life got off to a normal start. The parents wouldn't be in the room with them or anything, but they'd be there to ask the bride "Did everything go OK?" the next morning.

[kikismom]

Here is who Laura should have had her eye on. Although she met him at his brother Ben's well-known birthday party at the railroad depot, and he's the one who gave her her biggest thrill she'd get from a man (via an electrical current) Jim Woodworth never seems to figure in Laura's admirations. Too bad; I wonder if she learned years later that the teenage boy working the telegraph that night became a vice-president of pacific railroad :

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=IzIpAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA939&lpg=PA939&dq=woodworth+railroad+de+smet&source=bl&ots=R6_hSWUQHF&sig=I_KI6MixhSwqW6IwOsi4EUftwXg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aF_oU5XvD9KLyASVjYCoAg&ved=0CBwQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=woodworth%20railroad%20de%20smet&f=false

[Snow Apple]

Vice President? Yikes. He looks quite handsome in that picture too.

[kikismom]

He once did an interview where he said he had no business being the railroad/telegraph agent when he was so young but in those days if you could do it nobody argued and he kept getting promoted because he could work nights and was fine with moving constantly. Men with settled families wanted to stay put and missed their main chance---and an amazing future.

 

Laura probably would have been a wife who could be okay with moving for his early career, especially to California and such, and I'm very sure the circumstances of Woodworth's moves were much more comfortable. Paid-for train tickets, meals and hotels! Laura could have liked it quite nicely.

 

There's one part in The First Four Years that isn't included in THGY; where Laura changes her mind and tells Almanzo she doesn't want to marry a farmer, saying that there are lots of opportunities in town now and why can't Almanzo get a job there? I wonder if that was random? Was it a planted hint from Pa? Did Laura pay more attention to the Woodworth boys than we know?

Poor Laura. Always so close yet so far away. Worse than never being close to good luck at all.

[nodorothyparker]

I've always found the difference in those two books interesting too and wondered about it.  I know First Four Years was published pretty much as-is without being heavily edited or rewritten, so it's probably a lot closer to the truth about Laura than the uberly and chastely romantic Happy Golden Years where they drive off into the sunset on their own little farm.

 

With four daughters to marry off (and one of them being the unfortunately blind Mary) at this time period when opportunities for women were limited, I don't think it's unrealistic to think that Ma and Pa's best and really only hopes were that their girls would marry reasonably well.  So the Bennetts of the frontier analogy probably isn't that far off.  As it was, they didn't do very well on this front either.  Mary obviously never married and lived with them until they died and then became her youngest sisters' responsibility.  Carrie didn't marry until she was in her 40s and Grace was a spinster schoolteacher well into her 20s before she finally married.  Laura had the only grandchild and we know that she and Almanzo were pretty far from successful in farming. 

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

There's one part in The First Four Years that isn't included in THGY; where Laura changes her mind and tells Almanzo she doesn't want to marry a farmer, saying that there are lots of opportunities in town now and why can't Almanzo get a job there? I wonder if that was random? Was it a planted hint from Pa? Did Laura pay more attention to the Woodworth boys than we know?

I always wonder about the deal Laura and Almanzo make in The First Four Years.  Laura says farming is hard, and she's not sure she wants to be married to a farmer (in fact, she says, "I always said I never would", which makes me think it was more her than Pa, but that's another post for another day), and Almanzo agrees to try another line of work if the farming thing doesn't pan out the first four years of their marriage.  After every bad thing that could possibly happen happens, Almanzo says, "The rich get their ice in the summer, the poor in the winter"...and keeps on farming, even though he clearly sucks at it and they have nothing to show for it and are floundering as a family.  What the what, what?  Didn't he promise Laura he would try something else if farming didn't work out?  I understand Almanzo had been farming his entire life and wanted to be independent, but it's not like he couldn't have done anything else, and he made a promise to his wife.  I mean, Royal grew up farming, too, but he tried something else and seemed to do all right being a storekeeper, so what's Almanzo's excuse?  Why shrug off some of the hardest years of their lives with that saying and keep on doing the thing that was killing them?

 

The more I think about this, the more it pisses me off, and I like Almanzo.  *sigh*

[BatmanBeatles]

Do you what's really weird? Decades later, Laura writes in a news column about how great it is to be a farmer's wife.

[kikismom]

Yes, and at the time THGY was published, Laura was saying in interviews "What we accomplished was without any help from anyone,"

Selective amnesia!

 

And while protesting the Agriculture Dept. interfering in people's lives she was working for...a loan program that dispersed federal funds to farmers.

 

Laura got a lot of that from her Pa, I think. He was pretty good at sermonizing about other people's mistakes while being a failure himself. Charles also was in deep denial with his "I've never been beholden to another man and I never will be!" , all the way to taking money from his daughter's to pay for necessities and promising to pay it back but never making good on that. They liked to think of themselves as "free and independent" ...but that was really just a mind game to whitewash what they really were which was " irresponsible and refusing to become responsible".

 

  When she married Almanzo, she married a guy just like dear old Dad. He spent recklessly on "fun toys" while buying necessities on credit that he couldn't repay; he justified poor decisions with gobbledygook about being his own boss. Another dreamer, just like Pa, he married a wife who would be the adult in the marriage and make the sacrifices without demanding he live up to his obligations.

 

The most shocking part of The First Four Years is Laura's repeated shrugging that it wasn't her business to worry about the debts, it wasn't her place to do anything about it. Was that what she learned from Ma? Didn't she notice how wretchedly that worked out?

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

The most shocking part of The First Four Years is Laura's repeated shrugging that it wasn't her business to worry about the debts, it wasn't her place to do anything about it. Was that what she learned from Ma? Didn't she notice how wretchedly that worked out?

The funny thing is, it was always Laura's place to do something about the debts.  She had to work like a mule not just for Mary's education, but because Pa got them in deep and couldn't pull them out on his own.  *sigh*

[kikismom]

The funny thing is, it was always Laura's place to do something about the debts.  She had to work like a mule not just for Mary's education, but because Pa got them in deep and couldn't pull them out on his own.  *sigh*

Exactly! I read that and think "If you're affected by it, and your child is affected by it, it became your business." But, as you said, it was always Laura's place to do something about the debts---so maybe she thought when she got married that it would end?

There is a line in the book when Almanzo's crop is destroyed by hail; a line about "dreams of a life of ease and pleasure" ended. She'd thought that might finally come with marriage?

It always struck me that Ma complained heartily the night in LTOTP when she had to work serving tables at the New England supper. I kept thinking, hell, Laura worked like a male hired hand--for free--helping Pa with the haying. Not to mention stitching buttonholes and basting shirts for 12 hours a day at Clancy's. But she never mentions that Laura was working even longer at the NES---washing dishes all night! Pa doesn't notice either! He says to Ma that he knows she's tired but not a word to Laura. So when your parents can't make you a free servant on command, and you get to be the "Ma" of the household, I suppose she believed that now she could stop being so obligated to struggle in silence. No such luck Laura!

[dargosmydaddy]

 

Laura makes quite a bit of mention in her personal papers of really wanting Cap Wilder to be the one

Mmm, Cap Garland. One of my first literary crushes.

[sgittinger]

While I never liked book Ma, I never hated her more than when she gave Laura's doll away. Her only damn toy.