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Season 13: Poll - Winner Winner Chicken Dinner


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   POLL CLOSED

37 members have voted

  1. 1. Season 13: Who's gonna win?

    • Meatloaf Black Jr. (Caleb)
      15
    • J(G)eeeeeena
      22
  2. 2. Season 13: Who do you WANT to win?

    • Meatloaf Black Jr. (Caleb)
      12
    • J(G)eeeeeena
      7
    • Neither
      18


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Yeah I do agree that I think Harry made all the judges step up their game, to the point that even JLo was giving good, honest critiques (at least in comparison to her previous seasons) But then it was clear later on they were told to follow a script, which is a massive shame since they are all better judges when they give their honest feedback. The entire show is better when they just let things flow naturally instead of scripting everything. 

 

I actually am in the minority who did not believe Harry was "slut shaming" Emily- I believe what he actually meant was that if she wants to sing sexy lyrics, then she needs to embody that. Emily was very awkward trying to be sexy, like she was playing dress up in her mom's clothes and trying to portray her idea of some sexy rockstar. I think what he was trying to say is that IF she is going to sing lyrics like that, she has to sing them with confidence and BE what she's singing about. And so his question "Is that what you really want to be singing about?" was kind of asking her "Are you sure this is how you want to be portrayed as an artist?" I get the feeling he probably thinks lyrics talking about sex are the lowest common denominator as far as music goes and so he was asking her if this was how she really wanted to portray herself as a singer, a sexed up 18 year old. I didn't really view it as "slut shaming", just an honest question if this was what she wanted to do and if so, she needs to do it convincingly. 

 

My point was, however, that he did not say the same thing to Sam when he was singing about domestic violence and a night at the bar in We Are Young, quite suggestive lyrics for a then-17-year-old to sing. If he's going to question a young performer about the kind of lyrics they're singing, he needs to say it to everyone, not just one person, male or female. If he's going to berate Jessica about her lack of natural rhythm (which he was definitely right about and I completely agreed with him), then he needs to tell Alex to drop the guitar for once or move out from the mic stand and quit the awkward pee pee dance. I think a lot of people don't necessarily have a problem with Harry's harsh but astute critiques- they have an issue with the fact he says it to some people and lets others slip by.

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I agree that J-Lo and Keith have gotten ridiculous about throwing out standing O's at the drop of a hat, at least when it comes to their favorites.  But would it really hurt Harry to at least clap enthusiastically on occasion?  The Voice has actually gone a bit in the opposite direction.  While it's become more common for a contestant's own coach to stand up to applaud a performance, my impression is that it's actually become quite rare when other coaches give a standing O, especially after they get to the live rounds.  When it does happen, you know it's been a pretty spectacular performance.  It's almost as if just as they've become even more reluctant to provide any kind of criticism, they've compensated by becoming stingier about the standing O's.

 

As for who is going to win, I would guess that Caleb has the edge.  It's very difficult for a young female pop singer to win this show, especially if she does primarily newer songs with which a good part of the TV audience is completely unfamiliar.  I personally can see about equal merits for both of them.  It's been a long time since I've gone into a final without any clear preference of my own.  Probably a good thing too since the one I'm pulling for almost always loses.

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. Probably a good thing too since the one I'm pulling for almost always loses.

My season wide favorite has won 4 times (Kelly, Fantasia, Jordin, David C). My favorite made it to the finale and lost five times (Bo, Katherine, Adam, Crystal, Kree). The rest, including this season, they were eliminated before the finale (Haley, Elise, Jessica). Season 2 I only watched the finale and I liked Ruben better.

So I guess I can't say my favorites never win, but the seasons since the WGWG era have largely been disappointing for me.

Both this year's finalists have pluses & minuses & neither was my favorite, so it's a toss up for me.

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I started watching in Season 5 so pretty much every season, with the exceptions of 5 and 11, the person that I wanted to win did. Or there were seasons like last year or season 10 where I liked both and didn't really care who won.

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(edited)

Times my favorite won: 1 (Jordin)

Times my favorite made the finale and lost: 5 (Diana, Bo, Katharine, Archuleta, Jessica)

Times my favorite didn't make the finale: 6 (Kimberly Locke, Allison Iraheta, Aaron Kelly, Pia Toscano, Angela Miller, Sam Woolf)

 

So I have an abysmal success rate. lol  I'd like to think Kelly would be my other win, but I didn't see it.

Edited by TheGreenKnight
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(edited)

I must be weird.  Once the season is over, its "over" for me--I couldn't tell you who won last year much less who I favored in season 3, 5 or 7.  

I try not to actively think about it, but if I sit down with a specific reminder of who was in a season like this, I can recall who I favored.

 

I guess I'll do my tally:

S1:  I remember for some strange reason being slightly attached to Nikki McKibben, but overall didn't care much who won.

S2:  I was 100% Team Ruben.

S3:  I recall disliking everyone on this season (yes, at the time, even Jennifer Hudson).

S4:  I liked (not loved) Carrie and Bo both, and didn't have a favorite.  Most of my emotional energy on the show was spent loathing Constantine.

S5:  I actually wanted McPhee to win (not really comprehending at the time how annoying she'd be post-show).  Actually I wanted Daughtry to win and was pissed when he was booted.

S6:  Another season when I didn't like anyone all that much.

S7:  I slightly liked Brooke White (not that her later career lived up to it), but the two Davids kind of equally bored me in different ways.

S8:  Team Glambert, all the way.  Kris Allen bored the shit out of me, and Gokey enraged me.  Allison Iraheta was an early favorite though.

S9:  Team Bowersox all the way.  Never for a moment did I want Weasel to win.  Siobhan Magnus was amusing to like early on... until she got annoying (and booted).

S10:  Ugh, I dunno... Thia Megia?  Kidding!  Haley Reinhart had a few good early performances but got annoying. Among the final two?  Team Nobody.

S11:  Sorry to those who hate him, but I was Team Phil Squared pretty much from Day 1, and was shocked he stayed on the show, muchless won.

S12:  I bounced between Team Kree and Team Angie. Candice could SAAAANG, but it just didn't seem conducive to a modern music career.  I DID spend a lot of time focused on hating Lazaro Arbos, and being insulted he was still on the show as long as he was.

Edited by Kromm
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Oh goody....my turn......(Thanks, Kromm)

 

S1...did not watch...tried to watch the finale, but it took too long. Got bored.

 

S2....kinda liked the 'geek to chic' story arc for Clay. Just kinda.

 

S3.....stopped watching partway through......thought "PenBoy" was stupid and too many divas.

 

S4....Bo Bice all the way. And I enjoyed the whole Constantine thing, just for the entertainment value.

 

S5....Taylor was pure insanity in a sea of boring. Was ecstatic when Daughtry got booted.

 

S6....thought Blake was fun.....but glad Jordin won...seemed like a nice girl.

 

S7....Team David Cook all the way. My fave finale ever.

 

S8......Adam from Day 1.....couldn't wait for his bit each week. Best season ever. Pinnacle of water-cooler talk.

 

S9....Siobhan was cool.....liked Crystal, but thought she was off-putting.

 

S10....Haley, and I liked the musicality of Casey. Didn't like Howdy Doody #1 winning it.

 

S11.....Horrible. Howdy Doody #2. Gross.

 

S12.....Angie Miller......they missed the boat with that one....marketing dream gone by.

 

S13.....liked Sam for his mature voice. That's it.

 

After I wrote the above, I'm trying to decide why I watch this year after year. LOL. I asked a friend who watches this  just for a season of entertainment, and all she could come up with after 13 seasons is "Simon" and "Taylor Hicks". Guess that says it all.

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Season 1: Didn't watch although I did know about the shocking boot of Tamyra Gray.  The first episode I watched was the finale and I thought they neither one was particularly good.  I thought Justin would win because he was a cute guy but I also found him a bit smarmy.  I thought Kelly was too screechy.

 

Season 2:  Clay all the way, baby!  Still my favorite Idol ever.

 

Season 3: Diana DeGarmo

 

Season 4: Bo Bice

 

Season 5: Bucky Covington

 

Season 6: Melinda Doolittle/Jordin Sparks but wasn't really all that invested.

 

Season 7: Jason Castro

 

Season 8: Danny Gokey/Kris Allen. I liked Scott MacIntyre too although I never considered him a threat to make it very far.

 

Season 9: Crystal Bowersox.  I also liked Michael Lynche.

 

Season 10: Casey Abrams

 

Season 11: Phillip Phillips

 

Season 12: Candice Glover but not particularly invested

 

Season 13: Caleb Johnson.

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(edited)
I like that Harry has a lot of musical theory and knowledge and that he takes the job seriously but sometimes he comes off pretentious to me, having his own little rules about how to judge and throwing out musical terms he knows the average audience member won't understand. He's gone off the wall recently, putting an underaged girl on his shoulders, eating gummy bears, doing the JLo walk, etc. It does seem to me like TPTB have tried to get him to follow their script more which could be why he's "acting out." I liked him in the beginning but as the season's gone on, I've found myself liking him less and less. It always seemed like he just had something he had to complain about with every performance, like picking on Emily for singing sexy lyrics, or picking on Jessica because she was smiling while singing Pumped Up Kicks (even though that was the point), etc. It just seemed like he was hardly ever satisfied with anything and eventually that just gets very annoying. I think he would serve better as a mentor and not as a judge. He clearly is dying to be the mentor anyway.

 

 

But here's the thing, Harry's comments are for the "average public" - they are geared and tailored specifically for an individual who has select musician/singer as their career; individuals who should have at the very least a basic working knowledge of music fundamentals.  So while you and I may not necessarily understand the terminology (I understand it perfectly well and I am in no way shape or form musically inclined) the contestants should -- nor do I think Harry's use of the correct terminology equates pretentiousness.   I'd rather have a judge use the correct vocabulary/terminology when speaking with the contestants rather than have judges dummy down their comments or provide a useless "I wasn't feeling that" comment.

 

As a judge Harry (and the others) should praise the contestants when they truly do well yet they should also point out areas for improvement.  It's okay to say "I didn't like it and here's why and here's a suggestion to improve that" --- I don't like the special snowflake praise that the show engages in ..... if the judges were a bit more honest with Caleb and Jena perhaps Caleb would have learned to modulate his performances and Jena's enunciation would have improved - instead we have two performers who are told they are wonder, among the best in Idol history, and as a consequence have demonstrated zero growth (contrast that with Sam who was routinely given pointers and who did show remarkable growth in a short time period).

 

Regarding Harry's comments to Jessica on Pumped Up Kicks I happen to agree with him; the song was written to be extremely ironic and Jessica removed all the irony from that song when she stripped away the driving dancey beat vibe - since she did that she shouldn't have been smiling as if she were in a toothpaste commercial while singing that particular song (I always thought that while Jessica had a lovely voice, watching her was difficult because there was always a huge disconnect between her performance and the song).

 

I too cringe where I hear young girls/boys singing highly sexually charged lyrics - 

 

As far as the other antics, I think that is Harry's way of dealing with things (particularly when dealing with JoLo's ridiculousness) , especially since it seems that the powers that be have muzzled him.

To me a standing O performance needs to be transcendent.  It needs to feel like it's the single best thing you've heard that year, at the very least.  So having a moment like that week after week does seem a little much.

 

The Voice may be even worse than Idol with this though.  it doesn't help that what ORIGINALLY worked with The Voice (that they didn't give criticisms at all--which seemed refreshing in comparison to Simon Cowell's often shallow critiques, and Randy Jackson's even more arbitrary teeth seething sounding ones) has now caused that show to go too far in the other direction (that they often lie about performances totally and can't simply choose to say nothing).  At least HCJ has invited back the idea that criticism is possible on these shows, even if he pays for those with getting booed.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

I think what people forget is the "constructive" part of constructive criticism.  It's okay to point out when something didn't quite work and why - that's how the world really works.

I agree that J-Lo and Keith have gotten ridiculous about throwing out standing O's at the drop of a hat, at least when it comes to their favorites.  But would it really hurt Harry to at least clap enthusiastically on occasion?  

 

 

I think it's fine that Harry has a set of rules that he abides by that works for him (not going to rehearsals, not clapping or giving standing ovations during performance night) especially since he has followed those rules since day one.  The contestants know this (he's explained it several times during the season) and as long as Harry is consistent in his behavior it shouldn't be an issue.  

 

It upsets me more when judges (I'm looking right at you JoLo and to a lesser degree Keith) arbitrarily apply rules to their behavior or their reactions are completely opposite of their comments (i.e., dancing, smiling, and clapping during a performance only to crap all over the contestant when it was time to actually speak).

Edited by OakGoblinFly
  • Love 3
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But here's the thing, Harry's comments are for the "average public" - they are geared and tailored specifically for an individual who has select musician/singer as their career; individuals who should have at the very least a basic working knowledge of music fundamentals.  So while you and I may not necessarily understand the terminology (I understand it perfectly well and I am in no way shape or form musically inclined) the contestants should -- nor do I think Harry's use of the correct terminology equates pretentiousness.   I'd rather have a judge use the correct vocabulary/terminology when speaking with the contestants rather than have judges dummy down their comments or provide a useless "I wasn't feeling that" comment.

 

As a judge Harry (and the others) should praise the contestants when they truly do well yet they should also point out areas for improvement.  It's okay to say "I didn't like it and here's why and here's a suggestion to improve that" --- I don't like the special snowflake praise that the show engages in ..... if the judges were a bit more honest with Caleb and Jena perhaps Caleb would have learned to modulate his performances and Jena's enunciation would have improved - instead we have two performers who are told they are wonder, among the best in Idol history, and as a consequence have demonstrated zero growth (contrast that with Sam who was routinely given pointers and who did show remarkable growth in a short time period).

 

Regarding Harry's comments to Jessica on Pumped Up Kicks I happen to agree with him; the song was written to be extremely ironic and Jessica removed all the irony from that song when she stripped away the driving dancey beat vibe - since she did that she shouldn't have been smiling as if she were in a toothpaste commercial while singing that particular song (I always thought that while Jessica had a lovely voice, watching her was difficult because there was always a huge disconnect between her performance and the song).

 

I too cringe where I hear young girls/boys singing highly sexually charged lyrics - 

 

As far as the other antics, I think that is Harry's way of dealing with things (particularly when dealing with JoLo's ridiculousness) , especially since it seems that the powers that be have muzzled him.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

I think what people forget is the "constructive" part of constructive criticism.  It's okay to point out when something didn't quite work and why - that's how the world really works.

 

 

I think it's fine that Harry has a set of rules that he abides by that works for him (not going to rehearsals, not clapping or giving standing ovations during performance night) especially since he has followed those rules since day one.  The contestants know this (he's explained it several times during the season) and as long as Harry is consistent in his behavior it shouldn't be an issue.  

 

It upsets me more when judges (I'm looking right at you JoLo and to a lesser degree Keith) arbitrarily apply rules to their behavior or their reactions are completely opposite of their comments (i.e., dancing, smiling, and clapping during a performance only to crap all over the contestant when it was time to actually speak).

I understand the musical comments too but only because I studied music theory. Otherwise I'd have no idea what he's talking about when he praises Alex for "ending on the nine" or whatever kinds of things he says. I'm just saying, most of the audience will not know what that means or understand it and maybe this prevents them from fully understanding the critique or it will frustrate them because he's talking about something they don't understand. I'm not referencing the fact he uses the word "intonation" instead of "pitchy," I'm talking about the references to theory like he often did with Alex. I'm sure people who don't understand that might find it annoying. 

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(edited)

But it was clear enough that he was talking about, for example, the end of a song or phrase when he said something like "ending on the nine"--and that was the fastest, clearest way to convey his point to Alex, who did understand the term. I think that's more than fine. (And hey, if HCJ says something we don't understand, that's what Google is for! A day you learn something new is a day not wasted. :))

Edited by rereader2
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I understand the musical comments too but only because I studied music theory. Otherwise I'd have no idea what he's talking about when he praises Alex for "ending on the nine" or whatever kinds of things he says. I'm just saying, most of the audience will not know what that means or understand it and maybe this prevents them from fully understanding the critique or it will frustrate them because he's talking about something they don't understand. I'm not referencing the fact he uses the word "intonation" instead of "pitchy," I'm talking about the references to theory like he often did with Alex. I'm sure people who don't understand that might find it annoying. 

 

 

Perhaps.

 

Personally I'd find those comments less annoying than "I wasn't feeling it - it lacked the ka-pow"

 

But it was clear enough that he was talking about, for example, the end of a song or phrase when he said something like "ending on the nine"--and that was the fastest, clearest way to convey his point to Alex, who did understand the term. I think that's more than fine. (And hey, if HCJ says something we don't understand, that's what Google is for! A day you learn something new is a day not wasted. :))

 

Ha!

 

That quote reminds me very much of something I once read by Dr. Seuss (and now it's going to bother me until I figure it out).

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(edited)

Don't forget, if you've changed your mind on the poll questions, based on last night's show, you can delete your votes and revote.

 

For me it confirmed what I'd already thought--that the producers probably are bowing to the inevitability of Meatloaf Jr. winning (even if Jena is more marketable).  He'll likely win, we'll get a shitty single no matter WHO wins, and Loafy will get his Broadway Rock of Ages gig within... lets say 3 years if he wins and 2 years if he loses. Jena, if she wins, will get a push in about a year, and have some shitty album and single a few people will buy (but not many), but will have some moderate success because they'll also team her up with some hip-hopper/rapper for a collab--which will be a moderate hit but not a huge one.  If she loses, we'll probably never hear from her again--except for a guest appearance on an Idol show a year or two from now to announce an album nobody will buy.

Edited by Kromm
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