Season 1: Dick Wolf Gives Us NYPD's Finest

[Xeliou66]

Two great season 1 episodes were on earlier - The Torrents of Greed 2 parter and Mushrooms, I love both of these episodes.   
Torrents of Greed is a great mob storyline with really good twists, it was really entertaining from start to finish. L&O did many mob/organized crime stories but this was one of the best, so many good twists and scenes and having it be a 2 parter allowed for a more in depth exploration of the case. 
Mushrooms is a chilling episode with the murder of the baby and the wounding of his older brother, and it had really good investigative and legal work in getting to the bottom of it. Very memorable episode with a compelling case, I thought Greevey was kind of a prick in it as usual but I did like how it showed that this case took a toll on the police.

[TakomaSnark]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Two great season 1 episodes were on earlier - The Torrents of Greed 2 parter and Mushrooms, I love both of these episodes.   
Torrents of Greed is a great mob storyline with really good twists, it was really entertaining from start to finish. L&O did many mob/organized crime stories but this was one of the best, so many good twists and scenes and having it be a 2 parter allowed for a more in depth exploration of the case. 
Mushrooms is a chilling episode with the murder of the baby and the wounding of his older brother, and it had really good investigative and legal work in getting to the bottom of it. Very memorable episode with a compelling case, I thought Greevey was kind of a prick in it as usual but I did like how it showed that this case took a toll on the police.

Mushrooms is definitely a top five all-time episode for me. Epatha hit it out of the park in the scene where Greevey and Logan tell her what happened. Shocked she wasn't nominated for a Guest Emmy that year.

[Xeliou66]

16 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

Mushrooms is definitely a top five all-time episode for me. Epatha hit it out of the park in the scene where Greevey and Logan tell her what happened. Shocked she wasn't nominated for a Guest Emmy that year.

Mushrooms is great and yeah Epatha did a great job as the mother in that episode, so different from her role as Van Buren, in which she was also great.

I really liked how the case in Mushrooms played out with Greevey and Logan canvassing the neighborhood for eyewitnesses and finding the gun, which led them to the shooter and then the revelation that the shooter went to the wrong apartment. Stone and Robinette had some good scenes as well, and Schiff was good also. Mushrooms might be my favorite season 1 episode. 

[Xeliou66]

Just watched Life Choice, while this is an interesting episode with some good lines, there are some holes in it - namely the revelation that the deceased wasn’t the bomber but was there to have an abortion - it didn’t make sense in that everyone in the clinic said she didn’t sign in and they didn’t see her and that she wasn’t a patient, and then it turned out she was, but there was no explanation for why no one saw her. And it was convenient that the deceased was anti abortion and had done work with the organization that did the bombing. And the autopsy would’ve revealed the deceased was pregnant, which would’ve raised suspicion. And wouldn’t there have been fingerprints on the bomb device and wouldn’t forensics have shown that the deceased wasn’t near the bomb? The plot seemed filled with holes. While I like Stone in this episode and thought he did a good job prosecuting, and I liked Schiff as well, particularly his line about how it was one sided that 3 men were talking about what rights a woman has over her body, the episode’s plot had a lot of holes. 

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Just watched Life Choice, while this is an interesting episode with some good lines, there are some holes in it - namely the revelation that the deceased wasn’t the bomber but was there to have an abortion - it didn’t make sense in that everyone in the clinic said she didn’t sign in and they didn’t see her and that she wasn’t a patient, and then it turned out she was, but there was no explanation for why no one saw her. And it was convenient that the deceased was anti abortion and had done work with the organization that did the bombing. And the autopsy would’ve revealed the deceased was pregnant, which would’ve raised suspicion. And wouldn’t there have been fingerprints on the bomb device and wouldn’t forensics have shown that the deceased wasn’t near the bomb? The plot seemed filled with holes. While I like Stone in this episode and thought he did a good job prosecuting, and I liked Schiff as well, particularly his line about how it was one sided that 3 men were talking about what rights a woman has over her body, the episode’s plot had a lot of holes. 

They might not have. Abortion clinics get a lot of nervous women coming through. Maybe she hadn't gotten up the courage to talk to the receptionist or nurse.  Maybe she didn't give her name or lied about her name. I do agree they should have found out she was pregnant during the autopsy. 

This is one of my favorite episodes I like how they noticed the mom doesn't seem that upset. She's got a martyr. That goes a long way. At least in the beginning. It's still disturbing. I love Schiff pointing that out about them being three men talking about abortion. I love at the end Stone pointing out she killed Mary's baby. Amazing how she never thought about that despite all of her talk about killing babies. It's completely realistic but I still love her reaction. 

 

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They might not have. Abortion clinics get a lot of nervous women coming through. Maybe she hadn't gotten up the courage to talk to the receptionist or nurse.  Maybe she didn't give her name or lied about her name. I do agree they should have found out she was pregnant during the autopsy. 

This is one of my favorite episodes I like how they noticed the mom doesn't seem that upset. She's got a martyr. That goes a long way. At least in the beginning. It's still disturbing. I love Schiff pointing that out about them being three men talking about abortion. I love at the end Stone pointing out she killed Mary's baby. Amazing how she never thought about that despite all of her talk about killing babies. It's completely realistic but I still love her reaction. 

 

Oh yes she did use a fake name and a fake ID, that was discovered on her body, but it just seemed weird that everyone insisted she wasn’t a patient and then it turned out she was, and that she had done work with the woman who actually carried out the bombing. And the autopsy definitely would’ve revealed she was pregnant which would’ve led the detectives to realize that she was there for an abortion. And it seems like the bomb fragments would’ve either had fingerprints from the person who did carry it out and it wouldn’t have had the deceased’s fingerprints, which would’ve been another clue that she wasn’t involved. It just seemed like there were some plot holes.

I agree there are a lot of good moments in the episode, I just think the episode has several plot holes. 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Xeliou66

[Xeliou66]

The end of season 1 is on today - nice to see the early episodes again. Just watched a good episode! The Troubles, it’s an excellent case, unique opening with the prisoner being found dead, and I like how they pieced everything together, with the IRA terrorist killing the weapons dealer and then the prison guard who was in the IRA killing the witness. Stone was really great in this one, I loved his arguments and how he dealt with the federal officials. Logan was blinded by his sympathies for Ireland in this one, it was the only time I can remember him being so biased. The federal agent kicking the corpse made me laugh, as did Cragen’s rant about the feds. I liked the ending of Schiff giving the statement to the press.

 

[andromeda331]

On 6/23/2023 at 10:27 AM, Xeliou66 said:

The end of season 1 is on today - nice to see the early episodes again. Just watched a good episode! The Troubles, it’s an excellent case, unique opening with the prisoner being found dead, and I like how they pieced everything together, with the IRA terrorist killing the weapons dealer and then the prison guard who was in the IRA killing the witness. Stone was really great in this one, I loved his arguments and how he dealt with the federal officials. Logan was blinded by his sympathies for Ireland in this one, it was the only time I can remember him being so biased. The federal agent kicking the corpse made me laugh, as did Cragen’s rant about the feds. I liked the ending of Schiff giving the statement to the press.

 

I like this episode too. I remember at the time it seemed like the IRA were always blowing up something. I like Stone's line about grateful they weren't trying then trying the case in Boston and finally threatening him when he realizes there's a witness. I like Greevy going up against the prison ward. I like how they went from waiting for prison transfer which ended up a murder, they interview his wife who didn't know he was dead. The other suspect found murdered in his cell. Them going to the Irish bar and finding out about the prison guard and Stone threatening his lawyer who was definitely going off the deep end in support for the IRA. The murderer is really smooth, I love his expression when Stone calls the witness. He knows he's screwed. I love the way the witness tells what happened to her family and how gentle Stone is with her. I'm surprised Logan bought his crap but at the time there was a lot of support and sympathize for the IRA at the time. I like the waitress (Frasier's future agent) who was right. The whole thing was stupid.  Cragon's rant was great too. And correct. 

[Xeliou66]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:15 PM, andromeda331 said:

I like this episode too. I remember at the time it seemed like the IRA were always blowing up something. I like Stone's line about grateful they weren't trying then trying the case in Boston and finally threatening him when he realizes there's a witness. I like Greevy going up against the prison ward. I like how they went from waiting for prison transfer which ended up a murder, they interview his wife who didn't know he was dead. The other suspect found murdered in his cell. Them going to the Irish bar and finding out about the prison guard and Stone threatening his lawyer who was definitely going off the deep end in support for the IRA. The murderer is really smooth, I love his expression when Stone calls the witness. He knows he's screwed. I love the way the witness tells what happened to her family and how gentle Stone is with her. I'm surprised Logan bought his crap but at the time there was a lot of support and sympathize for the IRA at the time. I like the waitress (Frasier's future agent) who was right. The whole thing was stupid.  Cragon's rant was great too. And correct. 

Yeah it’s a really good episode. It’s one of the episodes where I like Greevey, and Stone was awesome as well. The case was good and I liked seeing the main characters deal with all of the various players involved in the case. It’s an interesting investigation as they try to see which of the other prisoners committed the murder, and the trial scenes were strong as well. The defense attorney was arrogant and seemed like a racist as well. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah it’s a really good episode. It’s one of the episodes where I like Greevey, and Stone was awesome as well. The case was good and I liked seeing the main characters deal with all of the various players involved in the case. It’s an interesting investigation as they try to see which of the other prisoners committed the murder, and the trial scenes were strong as well. The defense attorney was arrogant and seemed like a racist as well. 

Oh, he definitely was. 

[TakomaSnark]

FYI, Sundance today has cycled back to S1. Currently on at 8:52 ET is Everyone's Favorite Bagman.

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

FYI, Sundance today has cycled back to S1. Currently on at 8:52 ET is Everyone's Favorite Bagman.

Yep. I caught Prescription For Death last night, that’s a great episode. The show was still finding its footing early on but it was a really good episode, I liked both the investigation by Greevey/Logan and the prosecution of the case. 

[WendyCR72]

As I said before, the first season in terms of style - showing the episode titles, the in your face music - seemed like an '80s cop-show holdover.

Even so, the show was still good out of the gate, different or not.

[Xeliou66]

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

As I said before, the first season in terms of style - showing the episode titles, the in your face music - seemed like an '80s cop-show holdover.

Even so, the show was still good out of the gate, different or not.

Yeah they were still figuring out the formula in season 1 - the openings were a lot longer for one, and sometimes the flow was different where detectives would jump from one lead to another abruptly. But it was still very good from the start, lots of interesting episodes in season 1. 

[Notwisconsin]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:48 PM, WendyCR72 said:

As I said before, the first season in terms of style - showing the episode titles, the in your face music - seemed like an '80s cop-show holdover.

well, that's because "Bagman" was filmed in 1988. Wolf was trying to sell it for almost two years. So, it WAS an '80s cop show.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Notwisconsin said:

well, that's because "Bagman" was filmed in 1988. Wolf was trying to sell it for almost two years. So, it WAS an '80s cop show.

Right, I knew that! But the episode that brought it back for me was "Subterranean Homeboy Blues", which was filmed in '90. It also had more dramatic '80s-like music and showed the episode title, etc.

If I recall, the show did not stop showing titles until sometime in S2, but it was slowly finding its identity and turning into the show we know...

[GHScorpiosRule]

WAHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Season One just started airing yesterday on WE. Of course, they aired the unofficial pilot, "Everybody's Favorite Bagman" first, which is stupid, but I'm waiting to watch in order.

"It's possible Death Rays from Mars killed her. But I don't think so."

BOOM! Love Daniel Benzali's ME!

Edited September 22, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule
Getting the quote right is IMPORTANT!

[Xeliou66]

Just watched Kiss the Girls and Make Them Die, this is a good early episode. I liked the legal stuff a lot and how Stone was able to show the jury the defendant’s true colors. The investigation was good as well with how they retraced the victim’s movements and figured out who attacked her. Greevey was annoying though with his whining about young people and their lives. I loved Adam’s scenes, particularly when he was talking about the case with Ben and Ben said “what do you want, a confession” and Adam replied in a great deadpan tone “that would be nice!”.

[wknt3]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

WAHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Season One just started airing yesterday on WE. Of course, they aired the unofficial pilot, "Everybody's Favorite Bagman" first, which is stupid, but I'm waiting to watch in order.

I will defend them in this limited instance and say that this is a choice that actually makes sense as it allows the viewer to see the "rough draft" and how it developed. The stupidity is actually in ever putting in on the air in the first place without at least reshooting with Steven Hill. I mean even shows facing serious budget crunches who are forced to put their unaired pilots on air at least tried to make it fit into continuity. The least they could do was make it a two-parter and have Ben Stone defying orders to make a deal and it being revealed he is trying to bring to justice the corrupt city officials who arranged a hit that left DA Wentworth in a wheelchair unable to speak as we see flashbacks to the case...

Edited September 22, 2023 by wknt3

[GHScorpiosRule]

41 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

I will defend them in this limited instance and say that this is a choice that actually makes sense as it allows the viewer to see the "rough draft" and how it developed. The stupidity is actually in ever putting in on the air in the first place without at least reshooting with Steven Hill. I mean even shows facing serious budget crunches who are forced to put their unaired pilots on air at least tried to make it fit into continuity. The least they could do was make it a two-parter and have Ben Stone defying orders to make a deal and it being revealed he is trying to bring to justice the corrupt city officials who arranged a hit that left DA Wentworth in a wheelchair unable to speak as we see flashbacks to the case...

You make a good point. Plus, it’s jarring to see a thinner Max and with more hair a few episodes in! And the line that Paul is new.

Then again, in watching my retro shows, it’s obvious that they were aired out of filming order!

How you been, @wknt3? I’ve missed discussing our shows and fave writers!

[GHScorpiosRule]

“The Reaper’s Helper”  is another good one. Was Peter Frechette the go-to actors for these types of AIDS plots?

Curry: “What gave you the right to use me?”

Stone: “Unfortunately you did. Not once, not twice, but three times.”

Me: STFU, Curry! Go Ben!!!!

“I wonder who told a  secretary in your office to call me about your conversation with Logan?”

Stone: “I’ll have to look into that.”

Me:😅😅😅😅

[andromeda331]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:17 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

WAHOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Season One just started airing yesterday on WE. Of course, they aired the unofficial pilot, "Everybody's Favorite Bagman" first, which is stupid, but I'm waiting to watch in order.

"It's possible Death Rays from Mars killed her. But I don't think so."

BOOM! Love Daniel Benzali's ME!

I love that quote. It's so good and hilarious.

On 9/22/2023 at 6:51 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

“The Reaper’s Helper”  is another good one. Was Peter Frechette the go-to actors for these types of AIDS plots?

Curry: “What gave you the right to use me?”

Stone: “Unfortunately you did. Not once, not twice, but three times.”

Me: STFU, Curry! Go Ben!!!!

“I wonder who told a  secretary in your office to call me about your conversation with Logan?”

Stone: “I’ll have to look into that.”

Me:😅😅😅😅

It always amazes me that Stone was punched and McCoy never was. You'd think it would be McCoy given his tendency to tick people off.

[TakomaSnark]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I love that quote. It's so good and hilarious.

It always amazes me that Stone was punched and McCoy never was. You'd think it would be McCoy given his tendency to tick people off.

They even had Cutter about to get assassinated in the men's room by Dallas Roberts in 'By Perjury.!

[wknt3]

On 9/22/2023 at 6:43 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

You make a good point. Plus, it’s jarring to see a thinner Max and with more hair a few episodes in! And the line that Paul is new.

Then again, in watching my retro shows, it’s obvious that they were aired out of filming order!

How you been, @wknt3? I’ve missed discussing our shows and fave writers!

There is a difference between airing out of production order and airing what is effectively a trip into a L&O multiverse of madness without any reason other than they had it in the can. I'm actually surprised NBC agreed to air it as it TBH.

And I've been fine I just haven't been around as much due to a combination of factors including schedules and Dick Wolf's "eccentric" approach to his streaming and syndication deals combined with changes in the digital subchannels meaning I don't see as much of the early seasons as I used to so I don't have as much to say.
 

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love that quote. It's so good and hilarious.

It always amazes me that Stone was punched and McCoy never was. You'd think it would be McCoy given his tendency to tick people off.

In universe I would say that McCoy always gave the impression of being a bit more of a scapper who might just punch you back harder.

Both in universe and IRL NYC was a bit less "gritty" and prone to spontaneous violence in the McCoy seasons compared to the early years.

On a meta or BTS level SW was much less likely than MM to inspire the writers to want to do to his character on the page what they couldn't do to him in person if they wanted to keep their jobs. (Kind of the same reason Greevey went out in a less than heroic fashion...)

[GHScorpiosRule]

Resuming my rewatch and “Indifference” which is my top 10 favorite! That cross of Löwenstein and Ben NEVER  fails to give me goosebumps or when he tells Adam about his own rage.

As an aside, for someone who didn’t have a child until later in life, Noth was such a natural with the children in this episode.

Edited October 1, 2023 by GHScorpiosRule

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Resuming my rewatch and “Indifference” which is my top 10 favorite! That cross of Löwenstein and Ben NEVER  fails to give me goosebumps or when he tells Adam about his own rage.

As an aside, for someone who didn’t have a child until later in life, Noth was such a natural with the children in this episode.

That was a great scene with Ben and Adam. Ben rarely gets upset. I like how Logan pegged Mrs. Lowenstein right of the bat. Max didn't but Logan did because his mother was just like her. It's easy for those who didn't grow up in abusive homes to assume the mother is a victim too. But that's not always the case. Mrs. Lowenstein had no problem abusing her kids and was about to burn her son's hand when they showed up.

[Spartan Girl]

41 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

That was a great scene with Ben and Adam. Ben rarely gets upset. I like how Logan pegged Mrs. Lowenstein right of the bat. Max didn't but Logan did because his mother was just like her. It's easy for those who didn't grow up in abusive homes to assume the mother is a victim too. But that's not always the case. Mrs. Lowenstein had no problem abusing her kids and was about to burn her son's hand when they showed up.

Being a victim of domestic abuse is NO EXCUSE to abuse your children. It’s annoying that some people today are willing to pass the buck to generational trauma as if somehow that makes it understandable. Uh not always.

[Xeliou66]

Indifference is a chilling episode. Ben was understandably enraged, usually Ben was very stoic, in this episode his anger at what happened really showed, it was the one time Ben seemed very angry in the courtroom. Jacob Lowenstein was such a creepy piece of shit. 

[Xeliou66]

Season 1 is back on today - although they started halfway through the season with Life Choice instead of at the start

Life Choice is a pretty good episode, but it’s a huge plot hole that the detectives didn’t realize the deceased was at the clinic to have an abortion instead of to bomb the clinic - the autopsy would reveal she was pregnant and they would have to realize what happened then. And it was very coincidental that the victim was anti abortion and had been involved in the anti abortion movement. And wouldn’t forensics have shown no traces of the explosives being on the deceased? And did they not bother to trace the actual bomber’s movements that day and realize she was there. A lot of plot holes in this one, there were a few like this in season 1 as the show was just figuring out things. It is a decent episode - I like the trial scenes and I liked how Ben told Adam he could do his job without bias and I liked Adam’s line about how they were 3 men discussing what rights a woman has over her body and that was one sided - Adam was awesome. Greevey was a major ass in this one, and I liked that Logan finally yelled at him and said only an idiot thinks bombs don’t hurt people.

It’s great to see these season 1 episodes again. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

…but it’s a huge plot hole that the detectives didn’t realize the deceased was at the clinic to have an abortion instead of to bomb the clinic - the autopsy would reveal she was pregnant… And wouldn’t forensics have shown no traces of the explosives being on the deceased? And did they not bother to trace the actual bomber’s movements…
I liked how Ben told Adam he could do his job without bias and I liked Adam’s line about how they were 3 men discussing what rights a woman has over her body…

Back around 1990 I’m not sure forensic science gave as much definitive information — or that the audience expected it.
But this left the scripts with more room for legal discussions.

In the episode threads for the reboot, there’s a lot of disappointment about the lack of legal maneuvering. 
Reading your post, @Xeliou66, makes me realize the lack of lawyering in the 2020 episodes is in part because of all the advances in CSI filling up the screen time (which is also at least 5 minutes shorter).
Plus the mandatory chase scenes. Do the early episodes all have chase scenes?

[Xeliou66]

I’ve been enjoying season 1 today - nice to see these episodes on

Mushrooms is a stellar episode, such a saddening and senseless murder with a baby dead and a 12 year old wounded because the young hitman didn’t know how to read and went to the wrong place. I liked how Greevey/Logan hit the streets in search of witnesses and found out who had the gun and that led them to the shooter. Stone was strong as well, I liked how he got the intended victim to testify about how he robbed the drug dealer, and his closing argument was powerful. This is one of season 1’s best episodes.

Another one of my favorite season 1 episodes is on now, The Troubles, with the IRA terrorist. Interesting investigation and trial in this one, Cragen’s rant about the feds was hilarious, and it was a strong case.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Another one of my favorite season 1 episodes is on now, The Troubles, with the IRA terrorist. Interesting investigation and trial in this one, Cragen’s rant about the feds was hilarious, and it was a strong case.

That's one of my favorites of season one. I like how it started out with three cops waiting for their witnesses only to find one dead and two not.  Cragen's rant was so funny. The investigation was great. Greevy going up against the prison ward. All the different agencies involved. I love Stone realizing the mysterious Brit had a witness. I love the whole of the testimony from the witness and how Stone was with her. I love the murderer's reaction when he hears her name. 

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 1 is back on today - although they started halfway through the season with Life Choice instead of at the start

Life Choice is a pretty good episode, but it’s a huge plot hole that the detectives didn’t realize the deceased was at the clinic to have an abortion instead of to bomb the clinic - the autopsy would reveal she was pregnant and they would have to realize what happened then. And it was very coincidental that the victim was anti abortion and had been involved in the anti abortion movement. And wouldn’t forensics have shown no traces of the explosives being on the deceased? And did they not bother to trace the actual bomber’s movements that day and realize she was there. A lot of plot holes in this one, there were a few like this in season 1 as the show was just figuring out things. It is a decent episode - I like the trial scenes and I liked how Ben told Adam he could do his job without bias and I liked Adam’s line about how they were 3 men discussing what rights a woman has over her body and that was one sided - Adam was awesome. Greevey was a major ass in this one, and I liked that Logan finally yelled at him and said only an idiot thinks bombs don’t hurt people.

It’s great to see these season 1 episodes again. 

That was another great episode. Greevey was an ass throughout the episode and Logan finally going off on him.   He really was agreeing with Rose for most of the episode. I love Adam's line realizing that they were men discussing women's right to abortion. I like that Stone put aside his feelings about abortion. I still find it hard to believe they didn't find out about the pregnancy during the autopsy. There's no way they wouldn't have.  

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That was another great episode. Greevey was an ass throughout the episode and Logan finally going off on him.   He really was agreeing with Rose for most of the episode. I love Adam's line realizing that they were men discussing women's right to abortion. I like that Stone put aside his feelings about abortion. I still find it hard to believe they didn't find out about the pregnancy during the autopsy. There's no way they wouldn't have.  

Yeah it’s a huge plot hole that they didn’t know about the victim’s pregnancy until later on. There were a few plot holes in the episode, but it’s good overall, the legal scenes were particularly strong, loved Adam and Ben’s stuff. Greevey was an ass and I was glad Logan went off on him, Greevey saying they didn’t mean to hurt anyone was stupid, of course bombs hurt people. 

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

That's one of my favorites of season one. I like how it started out with three cops waiting for their witnesses only to find one dead and two not.  Cragen's rant was so funny. The investigation was great. Greevy going up against the prison ward. All the different agencies involved. I love Stone realizing the mysterious Brit had a witness. I love the whole of the testimony from the witness and how Stone was with her. I love the murderer's reaction when he hears her name. 

Yeah I liked how they connected the dots and realized the IRA guy had a motive to kill the first victim and then got the guard to kill the witness, and it was interesting seeing all of the different agencies deal with each other in trying to bring the guy down. Stone did great as usual - the defense lawyer was probably a bigot and an extremist like his client, given the way he referred to the victim as an “Arab dope peddler”. It’s one of season 1’s very best - I would definitely put The Troubles and Mushrooms in my top 5 from season 1. 

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah I liked how they connected the dots and realized the IRA guy had a motive to kill the first victim and then got the guard to kill the witness, and it was interesting seeing all of the different agencies deal with each other in trying to bring the guy down. Stone did great as usual - the defense lawyer was probably a bigot and an extremist like his client, given the way he referred to the victim as an “Arab dope peddler”. It’s one of season 1’s very best - I would definitely put The Troubles and Mushrooms in my top 5 from season 1. 

So do I. The other guy seemed more likely to be the murderer at first. I love how the Feds didn't want anyone know the victim was dead. If that was the case they should have gotten to Greevey and Logan sooner. I love Greevey telling Logan to stay to see if the second victim came back to life.

Yeah, that lawyer was definitely racist. He was the same as the first fanatic lawyer and his client. Hopefully the guard got it knocked out of it.  

It's definitely my top five from season one. Some days it's my favorite, other days it's Life Choice, or Sonata for a Solo Organ.

[Xeliou66]

On 3/29/2024 at 2:57 AM, andromeda331 said:

So do I. The other guy seemed more likely to be the murderer at first. I love how the Feds didn't want anyone know the victim was dead. If that was the case they should have gotten to Greevey and Logan sooner. I love Greevey telling Logan to stay to see if the second victim came back to life.

Yeah, that lawyer was definitely racist. He was the same as the first fanatic lawyer and his client. Hopefully the guard got it knocked out of it.  

It's definitely my top five from season one. Some days it's my favorite, other days it's Life Choice, or Sonata for a Solo Organ.

Sonata For a Solo Organ is a great episode as well, it took a rather far fetched plot based on an urban legend and made it into a compelling, believable episode. I love the testimony of the guy who lost his kidney and how he compared it to being raped, he was very sympathetic and his testimony was powerful. I didn’t feel any sympathy for the rich guy who orchestrated it, yes it was sad his daughter was sick but nothing justifies stealing an organ from someone else’s body, it’s a grotesque assault and violation of bodily autonomy and I liked how the episode pointed that out and I was glad the DAs were able to nail the guy. Adam dealing with the high powered lawyer who was whining about his client having to go to Rikers was good also.

That episode and The Troubles would be in my top 5 episodes for season 1, as would Mushrooms. I also like Life Choice, even though the plot holes are hard to ignore, the two parter The Torrents of Greed is a strong mob case, Indifference is chilling and disturbing, although not that suspenseful, the extreme creepiness and evil of Lowenstein made it compelling, Prisoner of Love is pretty good, and Prescription for Death is good also, really most season 1 episodes are strong - the show was still finding its footing early on but it had a lot of interesting plots.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Sonata For a Solo Organ is a great episode as well, it took a rather far fetched plot based on an urban legend and made it into a compelling, believable episode. I love the testimony of the guy who lost his kidney and how he compared it to being raped, he was very sympathetic and his testimony was powerful. I didn’t feel any sympathy for the rich guy who orchestrated it, yes it was sad his daughter was sick but nothing justifies stealing an organ from someone else’s body, it’s a grotesque assault and violation of bodily autonomy and I liked how the episode pointed that out and I was glad the DAs were able to nail the guy. Adam dealing with the high powered lawyer who was whining about his client having to go to Rikers was good also.

That was a really good episode. The poor victim. Waking up on a bench to find out someone stole his kidney. I remember hearing stories like that in Vegas although those victims usually woke up in the bathtub covered in ice. I certainly hope they weren't true. I didn't feel bad for the father either. He was rich he could have found someone who was a match to his daughter that would probably give up their kidney for money. The man did a good job coming across sympathetic but I like how Stone points out that he asks questions about any business he made but for his own daughter asked nothing. That makes no since.  I like when the daughter came to see Stone to try and convince him her father was a good man who was only trying to save her life and about the money he was going to give the victim and Stone asks what if she needed a heart? Also, if her dad cared so much why didn't he make sure the victim ended up in the hospital and not left to die on a bench? Had the police not came by he would have died.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I like when the daughter came to see Stone to try and convince him her father was a good man who was only trying to save her life and about the money he was going to give the victim and Stone asks what if she needed a heart? Also, if her dad cared so much why didn't he make sure the victim ended up in the hospital and not left to die on a bench? Had the police not came by he would have died.

Great writing. 
And, if I recall correctly, no time wasted on chase scenes?

Edited March 31 by shapeshifter

[andromeda331]

On 3/31/2024 at 2:38 AM, shapeshifter said:

Great writing. 
And, if I recall correctly, no time wasted on chase scenes?

No chase scenes.

[Xeliou66]

It’s great to see season 1 back on again on Sundance - I enjoy these early episodes, even if the flow was a bit uneven in the earliest episodes, and I’m not a Max Greevey fan. 
Indifference was on, that’s a chilling episode, Jacob Lowenstein was such a creepy evil piece of garbage, and his wife was a loony abuser as well. They were both incredibly fucked up trash. I loved Ben’s rage at them, this was one of the only times we saw Ben visibly enraged - he was usually very stoic and much less passionate than Jack was.      
Prisoner of Love is a good episode as well - I love Cragen’s response when Greevey wanted off the case - Greevey was just insufferable here. Another rather creepy case with the relationship between the arts commissioner and the socialite, that was a creepy relationship with the dude basically being her slave - the socialite was a psycho.

Season 1 had a lot of fascinating cases. It took a bit of time for them to get the flow of the episodes figured out, but it was a good season. 

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 1 had a lot of fascinating cases. It took a bit of time for them to get the flow of the episodes figured out, but it was a good season. 

And timing issues. A lot of times it felt like the show ran out of time at the end.

[Xeliou66]

22 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

And timing issues. A lot of times it felt like the show ran out of time at the end.

I would say it took L&O about half a season to get its formula down and run smoothly - in the first episodes the show didn’t flow as smoothly and sometimes the detectives would jump from one lead to the next without explanation and it would take the viewer a minute to catch up, and sometimes in court witnesses would testify out of order (this was especially notable in Prescription for Death, where it seemed like the DAs and defense were alternating calling witnesses) and there was quite a bit of noise from the gallery in a few of the early episodes, something which the judges would quickly shut down as the show went along. The episodes flowed better as season 1 went along and they got things figured out fairly quickly. 
I really like season 1 despite its flaws, I love Stone and Robinette. I’m not a Greevey fan, he was especially awful in both Prisoner of Love and Life Choice. 

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really like season 1 despite its flaws, I love Stone and Robinette. I’m not a Greevey fan, he was especially awful in both Prisoner of Love and Life Choice. 

Same here. I love Stone and Robinette but I don't like Greevey. 

[Xeliou66]

The Troubles is an interesting case, unique opening with the prisoner being found dead in the van after the transfer. Good investigative work and I liked how they linked the victim to the IRA and got to the bottom of it - It’s interesting how Logan was so off about the perp, he was certain it wasn’t the IRA guy and that the Cuban drug dealer did it, I don’t know if Logan was blinded by his sympathy for the guy’s cause because of their shared heritage or what, but it was the only time Logan was off base on a case - Greevey was spot on about O’Connell being the perp. 
Strong legal stuff as well - Ben’s prosecution was good, and the testimony of the woman whose family was killed in the bombing was compelling - Ben’s “there’s your human error” line was great. I liked Adam calling the guy from the British consulate to get more background on the case. And the ending with Adam holding a press conference with all of the players in the case was a strong ending. 
The defense lawyer was a racist asshole, basically saying the victim’s murder shouldn’t matter because he was an “Arab dope peddler”, he seemed like a fanatic just like his client. 
It’s a great episode, arguably my favorite of season 1 - I would say my favorite from season 1 is either The Troubles or Mushrooms. 

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Troubles is an interesting case, unique opening with the prisoner being found dead in the van after the transfer. Good investigative work and I liked how they linked the victim to the IRA and got to the bottom of it - It’s interesting how Logan was so off about the perp, he was certain it wasn’t the IRA guy and that the Cuban drug dealer did it, I don’t know if Logan was blinded by his sympathy for the guy’s cause because of their shared heritage or what, but it was the only time Logan was off base on a case - Greevey was spot on about O’Connell being the perp. 

It's a really great opening. I can't decide if Logan was blinded by the guy or not. He really sounded like he believed him but then at the end of his talk with Greevey mentions his priest uncle always believed that crap too. It's one of the rare time I agree with Greevey. O'Connell was full of crap and the murderer.
 

Quote

 

Strong legal stuff as well - Ben’s prosecution was good, and the testimony of the woman whose family was killed in the bombing was compelling - Ben’s “there’s your human error” line was great. I liked Adam calling the guy from the British consulate to get more background on the case. And the ending with Adam holding a press conference with all of the players in the case was a strong ending. 

 

I love the testimony from Bridget. It was so good. Ben was really great with her while she testified too. Very kind and compassionate. I love the look on O'Connell's when her name is announced. He's screwed and he knew it. I love the waitress summoning up the whole thing when talking about her when her husband was killed. The whole thing really was so stupid.  I love all the help from the different groups FBI, British, and NYPD. I don't think we ever had that before or since on the show. 
 

Quote

The defense lawyer was a racist asshole, basically saying the victim’s murder shouldn’t matter because he was an “Arab dope peddler”, he seemed like a fanatic just like his client. 
It’s a great episode, arguably my favorite of season 1 - I would say my favorite from season 1 is either The Troubles or Mushrooms.

Yeah, both defense lawyers were racist assholes and clearly on the IRA payroll. I do like Stone calling out the first one I really hope he did go to the bar on that one. This episode is tied with Sonata for Solo Organ for my favorites. They are both just so well done. 

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

It's a really great opening. I can't decide if Logan was blinded by the guy or not. He really sounded like he believed him but then at the end of his talk with Greevey mentions his priest uncle always believed that crap too. It's one of the rare time I agree with Greevey. O'Connell was full of crap and the murderer.
 

I love the testimony from Bridget. It was so good. Ben was really great with her while she testified too. Very kind and compassionate. I love the look on O'Connell's when her name is announced. He's screwed and he knew it. I love the waitress summoning up the whole thing when talking about her when her husband was killed. The whole thing really was so stupid.  I love all the help from the different groups FBI, British, and NYPD. I don't think we ever had that before or since on the show. 
 

Yeah, both defense lawyers were racist assholes and clearly on the IRA payroll. I do like Stone calling out the first one I really hope he did go to the bar on that one. This episode is tied with Sonata for Solo Organ for my favorites. They are both just so well done. 

Yeah it’s an awesome episode, it had a lot of players involved but it flowed very well unlike some other season 1 episodes, everything moved smoothly from start to finish and it was a very compelling case. I liked how they got to the bottom of the case and discovered the connection between the first victim and the IRA guy, and the legal stuff was good as well, Ben’s prosecution was great and I liked his compassion with the woman who lost her family and his cross of the perp. Yes both defense attorneys were slimy and one was a blatant bigot. The ending of Adam holding a press conference with all of the people involved was a great way to wrap up the story.

The Troubles and Sonata For Solo Organ would definitely be in my top 5 for season 1, Mushrooms is the other that would definitely be in it. Not sure what other two episodes would round out my top 5 of the season.

[Xeliou66]

Season 1 is back on WE Today 

Prisoner of Love is pretty good, my favorite part is Cragen chewing out Greevey when Greevey wanted off the case because the victim’s life disturbed him - Greevey was such a judgmental prick, and I liked how Cragen firmly told him to do his job and didn’t let him off the case. And then Greevey got a shock when he learned the victim was a practicing Catholic just like him. The case was bizarre with the arts commissioner basically being a slave to the rich woman - I’m not sure why they let the victim die other than that it was just thrilling for the woman to hold that power over people and the commissioner was enthralled with her. It was a decent investigation and case - I liked Adam’s scenes as well.

Out of the Half Light is just mediocre, very slow moving and predictable case but Robinette was great in it, I liked when he confronted the abusive father and when he went off on the Congressman who was grandstanding and furthering the hoax. Paul was really a great character, it’s too bad we never saw him take the lead in prosecuting a case and that they didn’t do a very good job with him when he returned as a defense lawyer.

Life Choice is very memorable but there are plenty of plot holes - most notably that they didn’t realize the victim was pregnant and was at the clinic for an abortion and wasn’t the bomber - the autopsy would’ve revealed her pregnancy, and forensics likely would’ve revealed that she wasn’t the bomber and she probably wouldn’t have had residue of the bomb under her skin and stuff. And it was very coincidental that the victim happened to be an anti abortion activist but she wasn’t involved in the bombing plot. There were just quite a few holes in the plot. Adam was great as usual especially his line about how it struck him as one sided that 3 men were sitting around discussing what rights a woman had over her body. Ben was good as well in that he did his job professionally and effectively despite his own personal feelings. It has some good stuff in it but the plot wasn’t that tightly written.