S05.E03: Hearts of Darkness

[formerlyfreedom]

In what became known as the crime of the century, a boy from one of Chicago's wealthiest families is kidnapped and found murdered; the ensuing investigation zeroes in on the wealthy, thrill-seeking college students, Nathan Leopold and Richard Loeb.

[ratgirlagogo]

This is another famous one  and I'm looking forward to it.

[Annber03]

I actually didn't know a whole lot of the specifics about this case-I'd heard the names in passing when people mention notable killers, certainly, and I vaguely recalled that they killed a kid, but I didn't really know all the actual details. Damn. The fact that Bobby was a relative of Loeb as well, and that they did it essentially for the hell of it, simply 'cause they just thought they could...that's just chilling. 

It also struck me how much more competent these particular Chicago investigators were compared to the ones in the case from last week*. Especially when you consider this case happened nearly twenty years before the one from last week. 

*Aside from the obvious problem of the general idea of equating homosexuality with being perverts, that is. Sadly not an uncommon attitude for that time, but still...

Edited February 25, 2018 by Annber03

[Luckylyn]

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I actually didn't know a whole lot of the specifics about this case-I'd heard the names in passing when people mention notable killers, certainly, and I vaguely recalled that they killed a kid, but I didn't really know all the actual details. Damn. The fact that Bobby was a relative of Loeb as well, and that they did it essentially for the hell of it, simply 'cause they just thought they could...that's just chilling. 

It also struck me how much more competent these particular Chicago investigators were compared to the ones in the case from last week*. Especially when you consider this case happened nearly twenty years before the one from last week. 

*Aside from the obvious problem of the general idea of equating homosexuality with being perverts, that is. Sadly not an uncommon attitude for that time, but still...

I suspect the suspects coming from upper class families affected how the investigation was handled.   They weren't going to use aggressive tactics and be much more careful to avoid upsetting powerful people until they had enough evidence.

I had heard of the case but didn't know the details.  It's really chilling how little human life meant to them.

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

I suspect the suspects coming from upper class families affected how the investigation was handled.   They weren't going to use aggressive tactics and be much more careful to avoid upsetting powerful people until they had enough evidence.

Very true. Good point.

Quote

I had heard of the case but didn't know the details.  It's really chilling how little human life meant to them.

And the fact they threw away really promising lives, lives that many would long to have for themselves, to do this as well, that they were apparently so bored with their lives that this was considered a thrill for them. Just so strange. 

I was looking at the Wiki page on them after the episode ,and apparently one of the guys' parents hired Clarence Darrow to represent him, and his impassioned argument against the death penalty was what ultimately spared them both being put to death. 

[Sile]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I was looking at the Wiki page on them after the episode ,and apparently one of the guys' parents hired Clarence Darrow to represent him, and his impassioned argument against the death penalty was what ultimately spared them both being put to death. 

I mentioned it in another thread, but check out the movie Compulsion.  Although the names are fictitious, Orson Welles plays the Darrow character and I think (not 100% sure) that his closing argument is close to verbatim.  This movie was in the late 50s so it couldn't give all the gory details of the case, but it's a pretty compelling film.  A decent novel as well, it pretty much sticks to the facts while fictionalizing them, probably for legal reasons since Leopold was still alive at the time.

[Annetteboardman]

Have they had one of the murderers narrate the episode before?  It really got to me when I realized that, and I am still disturbed 24 hours later.  Congrats to them for doing this, but ...  wow.  Have they used this narrative technique before?

[Annber03]

16 minutes ago, Annetteboardman said:

Have they had one of the murderers narrate the episode before?  It really got to me when I realized that, and I am still disturbed 24 hours later.  Congrats to them for doing this, but ...  wow.  Have they used this narrative technique before?

Yes! That threw me, too. I was like, "Wait, what...?" when they revealed who the narrator was. I honestly don't recall them using that technique in any of the other episodes before this, no. 

@Sile I'll definitely try and check out that film at some point. Thanks for the info/recommendation!

[sugarbaker design]

Sometimes I think I know everything.  Not a great quality.  I never knew one of them was released (I cannot remember which one) and lived out his remaining years in Puerto Rico, dying in 1971.  Thank you ACTR for reminding me that money always mattered, that you could murder a kid and still not serve a life sentence.

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, Annetteboardman said:

Have they had one of the murderers narrate the episode before?  It really got to me when I realized that, and I am still disturbed 24 hours later.  Congrats to them for doing this, but ...  wow.  Have they used this narrative technique before?

I was wondering the same thing. I think it's usually an anonymous townie narrating. It was well used in this episode. I like how it wasn't clear at first and then it hits you and you're like DAMN! It really helped illustrate how bored these "poor little rich boys" were to have one of them so calmly narrate their crime. They really did think they were above the rest of mankind and making one a narrator helped that, I think.

This case is tragic in it's pointlessness. At one point he says they asked for a ransom because the perfect crime had to have a motive. But they didn't, have a motive, beyond getting away with it. So much wasted potential, so much wasted opportunity, so much wasted. Poor little Bobby wasn't just killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time but for being easy prey because he trusted his cousin. I wonder if that other kid ever thought about how close he was to being the victim. *chills*

[Lizzing]

16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I was looking at the Wiki page on them after the episode ,and apparently one of the guys' parents hired Clarence Darrow to represent him, and his impassioned argument against the death penalty was what ultimately spared them both being put to death

I know Darrow was a renowned lawyer, but after reading on wiki that his speech was 12 hours, during the summer, in an unairconditioned court room, I'd have been ready to send Darrow to the gallows with the two murderers, and I'm not in favor of the death penalty. There's appropriate zealous advocacy, but 12 hours is insane!

It was super weird that "Loeb" narrated the story.  I hope they don't do that again.

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, Lizzing said:

It was super weird that "Loeb" narrated the story.  I hope they don't do that again.

Doesn't the narration usually start with an identifying phrase, though, something like "I lived across the hall from Mary's apartment" or "The first victim was a dear friend of mine"?  I knew there was something up when I didn't hear one of those.  Not that I knew it was either L or L!

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

Doesn't the narration usually start with an identifying phrase, though, something like "I lived across the hall from Mary's apartment" or "The first victim was a dear friend of mine"?  I knew there was something up when I didn't hear one of those.  Not that I knew it was either L or L!

The narrator did mention being the cousin of Bobby in his intro. It just didn't click at the time, even though I knew one of the killers was Bobby's cousin. I just assumed it was another cousin, or a made up cousin they were using as a narrator.

[sugarbaker design]

5 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

The narrator did mention being the cousin of Bobby in his intro.

Thanks, I did not catch that, at all.  

[Mabinogia]

5 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Thanks, I did not catch that, at all.  

It went by very quickly. It only caught my attention because I wondered if it was going to be the brother of the killer (both being cousins of the victim). I had no clue it was going to be one of the killers until he revealed it.

[ratgirlagogo]

9 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

The narrator did mention being the cousin of Bobby in his intro. It just didn't click at the time, even though I knew one of the killers was Bobby's cousin. I just assumed it was another cousin, or a made up cousin they were using as a narrator.

That's what I thought too - the narrator as another interested party.   Just watched this one tonight and also wanted to mention that one of the talking heads was Tom Kalin, the writer/director of the film 1992 Swoon, which also is about this crime - unlike the earlier films Rope and Compulsion it focuses more explicitly on the two killers  being both gay and Jewish.  (It's a good movie but more of an art film than a straightforward narrative.) And bravo as usual to this show for getting real experts to comment -  one of the other THs was Hal Higdon who as shown in the subtitles  wrote the excellent book Leopold and Loeb : Crime of the Century  about the case back in the 70's.

 

On 2/25/2018 at 5:33 PM, Annber03 said:

apparently one of the guys' parents hired Clarence Darrow to represent him, and his impassioned argument against the death penalty was what ultimately spared them both being put to death. 

 According to this article in the Forward  https://forward.com/schmooze/332943/affluenza-teens-jewish-predecessors-leopold-and-loeb/  it was more that the judge was uncomfortable about executing a couple of teenagers.   Who knows.   By the way I found this article by googling "leopold loeb jewish" and yikes!  I don't recommend doing that - you get first the Wikipedia page, then this article, , and then you're punched in the face by a pile of neoNazi hate sites.  Oy.

Edited February 27, 2018 by ratgirlagogo

[geekgirl921]

I knew a little about this one since I had seen another show on it but this was really good. I kind of love that these "brilliant" killers were tripped up by something so stupid as dropping the glasses with the rare hinges. I think part of the reason that Leopold (I think) was released was because at the time I think there was more of a tendency at the time to release people. I'm not sure but I think actual full life sentences were more rare.

[Annber03]

10 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I kind of love that these "brilliant" killers were tripped up by something so stupid as dropping the glasses with the rare hinges.

Yeah, there's been quite a few criminals who've been caught that way, and I always find that interesting, too. They spend so long focused on the big picture of it all that it makes it that much easier for the little details to fall apart. 

And the moment two or more people are ever involved in a crime, that makes getting away with it that much tougher, because one of them will always inevitably crack or do something stupid that can make it easier to take down the other person/people involved, too. 

[geekgirl921]

On 3/3/2018 at 10:39 AM, Annber03 said:

Yeah, there's been quite a few criminals who've been caught that way, and I always find that interesting, too. They spend so long focused on the big picture of it all that it makes it that much easier for the little details to fall apart. 

And the moment two or more people are ever involved in a crime, that makes getting away with it that much tougher, because one of them will always inevitably crack or do something stupid that can make it easier to take down the other person/people involved, too. 

And the ironic thing is if they hadn't been so rich so he could afford the specialized hinge they probably wouldn't have been able to trace the glasses and found them!