S07.E01: Enemy of the State

[Bcharmer]

On 2/12/2018 at 8:12 PM, ruby24 said:

I also am not thrilled about having another teenager on the show- that did NOT work out well last time around.

Could not agree more. Had enough of that with Dana Brody. Snarky, sulking, disrespectful, entitled teens with attitude are my least favorite characters on a show. They're the worst. I finally bagged The Americans, because Paige got on my nerves. Blew off the last season, entirely. Less domestic drama, and more spy shit, please. :)

[pfk505]

On 2/14/2018 at 6:09 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I had the same issue with the finale. A conspiracy to kill the president from inside the government is a pretty big deal. Does Carrie personally know that all of the people arrested are totally innocent. I am not even sure Saul is 100% innocent.

Well Saul was evidently lobotomized some time back in season 5.. there is no other way to explain what happened with him in that season. So it wouldn't shock me if what you suggest were true!

[Bannon]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:56 AM, Ina123 said:

But necessary, apparently, for plot development. There's a reason the niece had to see it and we'll find out in future episodes. The show must go on.

It is such a lazy thing for writers to do, write the major characters stupid, in order for the plot to go in the desired direction. I really hate it, but only the best written drama avoids it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clips:

I'm bringing you a federal agent:

Arms up:

[chocolatine]

I just realized today that the show is back on. I like that it's set in DC again and Carrie is doing lots of old-school spycraft. I hope she gets her own place soon, because I don't like Maggie and her family taking up so much screen time. I want less of them and more of Max and Saul.

Is Dante the new male partner-in-spying/potential love interest? I sensed some sexual tension from him even though she put him into a very bad situation.

I found the plot last season difficult to follow with too many characters and settings, but this season premiere was thankfully more streamlined. Let's hope it stays that way.

[John Potts]

Sometimes I forget that this show is written by fascists, then I get an episode where the Liberal President comes into a court martial to ask for the death penalty and then order an assassination when they don't!

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 5:43 AM, scrb said:

Ok, Keen is portrayed as some threat to democracy, abrogating the rule of law.  But if there was some plot to kill the POTUS involving some elements of the military, you better believe they will use emergency powers.  And since the conspirators can do a credible job of framing Keen, she's right to want to root out this conspiracy.

Yes - O'Keefe would be screaming at the President to lock up & throw away the key if it was communist/Islamic terrorist who attacked the President. But when it's a right wing cabal that attacks the President, suddenly he's a stickler for the rule of law. It looks like we're heading for a season where there ARE no "good guys" - we have fascist Pres Keane v Fake News O'Keefe.

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 2:46 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

In what Bizarro world would someone go from federal prison to director of the NSA? But then again, Saul's professional history is almost as implausible as Carrie's.

The same one where you can go from POW to Congressional committee member apparently without any vetting process!

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 1:58 AM, grommit2 said:

What would really, really be great is if they brought back Quinn...oh well.

Hey, Jack Bauer DIED in S3 of 24 - that didn't stop him kicking ass for another 5 seasons!

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 12:57 PM, weaver said:

Hated the opening; bring back the old opening please. 

I couldn't help thinking this will appear on next week's "Is this worse than jazz?" segment in next week's EHG!
 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 2/23/2018 at 2:23 PM, John Potts said:

Hey, Jack Bauer DIED in S3 of 24 - that didn't stop him kicking ass for another 5 seasons!

Ha, good point! Hear that, show? Bring back Quinn!

[mostlylurking]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:25 AM, Ina123 said:

Jake Weber’s accent is as irritating and inauthentic as ever. Oh well.

What type of accent is he even going for?  He sounds like Yosemite Sam.

On 2/12/2018 at 10:10 AM, attica said:

Ah, the classic tradecraft of losing a tail by accusing them of public nudity/sexytimes! Gotta hand it to ol' Carrie; she remembers Spy 101.

I loved the poor desk clerk's reaction.  "Oh my goodness."  Heh.  Is Dar still in jail?

[mostlylurking]

On 2/12/2018 at 11:12 PM, ruby24 said:

Can't her sister be on her side for a change? That'd be nice.

I think Carrie's sister has been on her side more times than not, always running interference for Carrie's various dramas, taking care of Franny, always giving in to Carrie in the end, almost to the point of enabling her.  I think she's a good sister.  I don't know if I would be able to put up with all of Carrie's shit.

[Roseanna]

On ‎12‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 7:43 AM, scrb said:

Ok, Keen is portrayed as some threat to democracy, abrogating the rule of law.  But if there was some plot to kill the POTUS involving some elements of the military, you better believe they will use emergency powers.  And since the conspirators can do a credible job of framing Keen, she's right to want to root out this conspiracy.

 

On ‎12‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 1:27 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know Saul said that Keane needs to get over it, but dude, someone tried to kill her. And it wasn't one crazy guy with a gun on a rooftop. There was obviously a pretty huge conspiracy that involved lots of people - and that was just in the execution of their assassination attempt. Who knows how many other people were involved in planning it? I can't blame her for being a little bit paranoid right now. I'm not defending her decision to arrest two hundred federal employees (especially in light of the fact that Dante's interrogations so far have shown that none of them had anything to do with the assassination plot), but I can see how knowing that this was not the result of a single crazy person is causing this. It's also a believable way for the show to flip Keane's character from more sympathetic (as she was last season) to one of the antagonists. And I'm not sorry to see both McClendon the character and Knepper the actor leave my screen.

 

On ‎15‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 4:09 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

I had the same issue with the finale. A conspiracy to kill the president from inside the government is a pretty big deal. Does Carrie personally know that all of the people arrested are totally innocent. I am not even sure Saul is 100% innocent.

I agree that, because it wasn't only an assassination attempt but a conspiracy whose members were from the CIA and the army, it's no wonder that the President is deeply thraumatized. But it's equally true that in her office it's a weakness that she can't act even try to act rationally. She seeks for revenge, not what it's best for the country.

It's clear that she has to "clear the house", but surely that can be done without random arrests and keeping people in prison without trial. (And can the President really come to the court in order to demand the death sentence?) 

In the end of the last season, I believed that the reason of more arrests was that she listened to her chief of staff Wellington. But now it seems that Wellington has only done what she ordered  and that he at least now has doubts. I think that it's a weakness in the President that she even refused to listen to him and said that he either follows her orders or will get fired. A President with only yes-men can't succeed.

Of course Carrie can in no way know who are innocent and who are not. That they are old friends and collegues is no guarantee. Remember how she and Saul were betrayed in S5.

But the President owes her life to Carrie and she knows also that Saul did his best to find out the truth about Iran whereas Dar lied to her and manipulated her. So there is no reason why she wouldn't trust Carrie and Saul but her paranoia and inability to listen to different opinions.

[Roseanna]

On ‎15‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 6:02 PM, Milburn Stone said:

All I can say is, it's an ironic paradox that Carrie, Saul, and O'Keefe are now, in terms of perceiving the threat, all on the same side.

So whether or not O'Keefe the person is sympathetically portrayed--no way, he's scum--the views he's now expressing are ones that I believe the show asks us to take seriously. The show has now put the audience in the position of saying, "Wait a second...I think I'm actually agreeing with this a-hole!" And that's a very interesting position for us to be in.

 

On ‎15‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 7:34 PM, scrb said:

Carrie's civil liberties concerns are genuine but O'Keefe's are not.

 

On ‎24‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 12:23 AM, John Potts said:

Yes - O'Keefe would be screaming at the President to lock up & throw away the key if it was communist/Islamic terrorist who attacked the President. But when it's a right wing cabal that attacks the President, suddenly he's a stickler for the rule of law. It looks like we're heading for a season where there ARE no "good guys" - we have fascist Pres Keane v Fake News O'Keefe.

Even Carrie began to care about civil liberties in S5 and S6. 

Otherways, I agree with Scrb and John Potts. O'Keefe is completely false. Not only his program is full of hate speach, he directed the troll farm, falsified the video about the President's son and made a bogey site about Quinn in order to make him a scapecoat of the assassination. In short, he did his best not only to divide the nation, but also move the lawafully elected President from the office, and because he and his co-conspirators failed, they helped to create a monster of the President.

Still, in time of need there can be odd bedfellows. I am not entirely against allying with him, if it's remembered that he has his own agenda that is just as dangerous to democracy and the nation. Maybe he can be used but he also tries to use you. He isn't to be trusted for a second.  

On ‎16‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 12:10 AM, Kel Varnsen said:

Speaking of civil liberties, I almost had to laugh when Carrie said that Keane locking up 200 government workers who may or may not have been part of the conspiracy was the biggest civil rights violation in the history of the United States. I mean i am Canadian and I can still think of a bunch of instances in history that were bigger civil rights violations.

You are completely right. But it's only human that you care more for those who are nearest to you.

And of course, once the government begins to break civil liberties, one can't know how it ends. It's best resist when you can.

Which makes me wonder: what does the rest of the country think?

[Roseanna]

On ‎12‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 7:43 AM, scrb said:

But now, the conspirators find a way to poison the general in federal prison?

 

On ‎12‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 8:49 AM, pfk505 said:

My take on it was that it was the President's doing, since once Wellington said there's nothing he could do about the verdict, she said "then I'll find someone who can"..

My first thought was like PFk505 that it was the President because of her words to Wellington. But having thought anew, would she really be emotional that she would act so stupidly? For stupidity it would be as everyone would suspect her. 

The conspirators have a very valid motive to murder the general (or he to commit suicide): to put the blame on the President.

[Roseanna]

On ‎12‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 8:08 PM, navelgazer said:

Carrie needs to get out of her sister's house.  The "it's your sickness, not the world" lecture was premature.  I didn't see Carrie swilling down gallons of chardonnay or Merlot and I didn't see her bringing random redheaded Brody lookalikes home to fuck on the stairs, two of unmedicated Carrie's favorite activities. 

 

On ‎13‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 6:12 AM, ruby24 said:

Sigh. I really don't want a season of Carrie's family being antagonistic and yelling at her all the time for being a bad mom, etc. I also am not thrilled about having another teenager on the show- that did NOT work out well last time around.

Can't her sister be on her side for a change? That'd be nice.

 

On ‎14‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 7:47 AM, Jextella said:

However, I have major issues with Carrie using Maggies office for a secret meeting and having her niece drive her to the secret meeting.  If something happens to Carrie's sister's family - any of them - I might bail.  That would be too much of a cheap and easy trick by the storytellers.

 

On ‎26‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 4:21 PM, mostlylurking said:

I think Carrie's sister has been on her side more times than not, always running interference for Carrie's various dramas, taking care of Franny, always giving in to Carrie in the end, almost to the point of enabling her.  I think she's a good sister.  I don't know if I would be able to put up with all of Carrie's shit.

I don't blame on Carrie's sister at all. She has helped Carrie many times, even taking care of Franny after the birth for months when Carrie was working abroad.

Now Carrie and Franny live in her house for free, but Carrie doesn't care a bit that her illegal activities against the President endanger also her sister's family. 

[Roseanna]

On ‎15‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 6:02 PM, Milburn Stone said:

All I can say is, it's an ironic paradox that Carrie, Saul, and O'Keefe are now, in terms of perceiving the threat, all on the same side.

So whether or not O'Keefe the person is sympathetically portrayed--no way, he's scum--the views he's now expressing are ones that I believe the show asks us to take seriously. The show has now put the audience in the position of saying, "Wait a second...I think I'm actually agreeing with this a-hole!" And that's a very interesting position for us to be in.

To me, it's not about his person, but his actions which endangered democracy. He now appeals to civil rights when he is in trouble of his own making but earlier he didn't support the civil rights of those who thought otherwise than he.  

It's clear that freedom of speach means that O'Keefe has a right to lie about politics so much he wants. But had he also a right to defame a memory of a dead person by making a false video about the PEOTUS son? Had he right to make an indentity theft by creating a bogus net site of Quinn? Had he a right to create a troll farm of net profiles who didn't exist in order to lead a hate campaign towards the PEOTUS? All this can be proved even if his membership of conspiracy couldn't (although I hope otherwise).

All in all, even if the new POTUS can't be liked as a person and her ideas about the foreign policy seemed rather naive in the beginning of S6, I would like the show more if she dropped her paranoid attitudes and the show would go back asking the basic question: who has the right to determine about the foreign policy - the lawfully elected president or the CIA?

[Roseanna]

On ‎12‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 9:13 PM, dwmarch said:

The NSA as an agency is not the same NSA which is an acronym for National Security Advisor. The National Security Advisor is a cabinet post and gives advice to the President. Saul's fulfillment of the role is probably going to be much more... fluid than the boring bureaucratic position that it's supposed to be.

I don't deny Saul's capacity to act in that role, but actually the best strategy of the foreign policy was presented by Quinn in S5. As he said, there has been no long-term strategy, only a belief that you can go to a foreign country, win the enemy and then go out. When it hasn't succeeded in a couple years, you had just repeated the same and again and again.

As he said, in addition to the military output, there must also be a huge and long-term civil output. What he left out was that there must be also be a domestic basis to democracy and civil society.