S01.E03: The Lost Art of Diplomacy

[Bort]

Quote

Both sides turn to diplomacy to resolve a conflict. Emily obtains a special visa. Howard interrogates a suspect.

[Bort]

Well. The assassination attempt on Coma Emily makes a lot more sense now.

[paulvdb]

The is no coincidence on tv, so I now believe that Emily's car accident was not an accident but an assassination attempt.

[shapeshifter]

Wondering whether Kind Eyes Howard's Side deliberately or accidentally infected Bad Ass Howard's Side with the virus that caused the near-extinction event pandemic.

So conscious Emily will definitely not sleep with Kind Eyes Howard because she's not conscious anymore. I didn't quite see that coming. Bummer for Ian.

Is Peter Quayle smarter than his FIL/Richard Schiff gives him credit for? Or just more conniving?

Where does the name Baldwin come from?

[Bort]

4 hours ago, paulvdb said:

The is no coincidence on tv, so I now believe that Emily's car accident was not an accident but an assassination attempt.

Oh, I have no doubt that Baldwin was dispatched when the hit-and-run on Emily failed and she managed to linger in a coma.

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Is Peter Quayle smarter than his FIL/Richard Schiff gives him credit for? Or just more conniving?

I don't know, Quayle hasn't really done anything that smart yet. I had been wondering how that weasel had gotten so high up on the ladder at a young age, now I know. Especially stupid is fucking prostitutes when his father-in-law is so make-or-break in his life.

I found the diplomacy of each side trading because they each have advances and knowledge that the other doesn't really fascinating. Medicinal advances, knowledge of oil deposits. Especially interesting was census reports being so sought-after. I guess they want to compare with their own and see who has a double, if they have one, what they're doing, etc?

[wilnil]

You know, they basically said our Emily was an Interchange employee in the pilot when Quayle asked our Howard during the job interview how his wife was doing and said he'd heard good things about her from colleagues (or something to that effect), and I wondered if it was going to turn out that she'd been in on the two-worlds secret and keeping it from her husband all along (and whether that would mean the car accident was no accident). But I didn't see it coming that she'd been Howard Prime's source in our world.

Hmm, the cans of worms that opens up. Does Howard Prime really know of a "kill list," or was that something he made up to avoid having to say "my source in your world has already been targeted once, and now someone is trying again"? Did he and our Emily ever physically meet (her last note referred to "my letters" but not to any face-to-face times), and if so, did they end up intimate (and would she consider that cheating)? Is our Emily now in double-triple danger now that whoever is behind the hit/attempted hit on Emily Prime has the letter? (FWIW, I'm assuming Emily Prime is a goner, but next episode could have an ally with an antidote arrive in time.)

And now that it's been explicitly said that Prime world had a major global pandemic, we see why trading information is so valuable to each side: Prime can offer its hard-won medical knowledge so our world can hope to avoid a similar catastrophe (the HIV treatments and human genome work came from Prime!), while our side can offer all the other technologies whose progress on the Prime side was delayed by the need to put all resources into fighting the disease,

[Haleth]

And why would someone try to kill our Emily?  Because she was communicating with Howard Prime?  Is someone (Baldwin's employer) trying to throw a grenade into the embassy trade negotiations?  Why?  So many questions!

Edited February 4, 2018 by Haleth

[wanderingstar]

I liked this episode. The diplomatic wrangling over Baldwin was fascinating, as were the mentions of the differences between our side and The Other Side. A pandemic. Cleaner oceans. 

I'm also intrigued about the secret group that sent Baldwin on her mission.

JKS still rocks in both roles.

[Ltg.jon]

This show makes my brain race so much.  If there's only one place to cross, how did Baldwin get to our world, in such a way that the security forces on our side weren't aware?  They seem to keep a pretty tight rein on people who cross over, so even if she had a visa and came over, Quayle should have been aware that she escaped her escorts whose job was presumably to keep her from learning too much. 

And if there was a near extinction-level pandemic on the other side, why does their Berlin have so many more newer buildings in it? 

Also, Baldwin/Nadia are in their 20s, right? If so, that means them being on the subway platform at age 10 was at least a decade after the split between the two universes -- so why were there lives still identical to that point?  I mean, on Baldwin's side, the pandemic had to have already started. (If the pandemic is what triggered massive research into bio-science, and that research resulted in our AIDS drugs, that research has to have been underway by 1995 at least.)

I'm optimistic that the show will eventually explain enough of the history that this will all make sense, and terrified that it won't.

[wilnil]

1 hour ago, Ltg.jon said:

If there's only one place to cross, how did Baldwin get to our world, in such a way that the security forces on our side weren't aware?  They seem to keep a pretty tight rein on people who cross over, so even if she had a visa and came over, Quayle should have been aware that she escaped her escorts whose job was presumably to keep her from learning too much.

Interestingly, though, it was the higher-ups in Prime world who kept a tight leash on their own crossers. The rules they read to Emily before she was cleared to cross over were incredibly strict, right down to "no eye contact," and I got the impression that the darkened limo was their own embassy's car. The pandemic must have been terrible enough that even now, there's a danger that Prime people won't return if they see an opportunity. (Spies and defector-chasers like Howard Prime appear to be an exception.) Baldwin apparently crossed using the documentation she stole at the beginning of Episode 1.

1 hour ago, Ltg.jon said:

And if there was a near extinction-level pandemic on the other side, why does their Berlin have so many more newer buildings in it

Good question. Maybe panicked people burned parts of the city down, and now that the world is recovering, they're replacing those parts with new construction.

1 hour ago, Ltg.jon said:

Also, Baldwin/Nadia are in their 20s, right? If so, that means them being on the subway platform at age 10 was at least a decade after the split between the two universes -- so why were there lives still identical to that point?

We were debating this in the Episode 2 thread. My feeling is that her part was simply miscast; the dialogue definitely implied she should be 39-40.

[paulvdb]

3 hours ago, wilnil said:

Interestingly, though, it was the higher-ups in Prime world who kept a tight leash on their own crossers. The rules they read to Emily before she was cleared to cross over were incredibly strict, right down to "no eye contact," and I got the impression that the darkened limo was their own embassy's car. The pandemic must have been terrible enough that even now, there's a danger that Prime people won't return if they see an opportunity. (Spies and defector-chasers like Howard Prime appear to be an exception.) Baldwin apparently crossed using the documentation she stole at the beginning of Episode 1.

Yes, the Prime world seems to act like the Soviet Union in our world during the cold war with the rules for their people travelling to our world. Although with only one place to cross our world should have a record of everybody who crosses. So they should have a picture of Baldwin from when she crossed. It's not like the United States with thousand of kilometres of coast and land borders where people could easily enter the country undetected. So you couldn't have a situation like Philip and Elizabeth on The Americans who live as American citizens without anybody knowing that they are Soviet spies.

[Bort]

3 hours ago, wilnil said:

Interestingly, though, it was the higher-ups in Prime world who kept a tight leash on their own crossers. The rules they read to Emily before she was cleared to cross over were incredibly strict, right down to "no eye contact," and I got the impression that the darkened limo was their own embassy's car. The pandemic must have been terrible enough that even now, there's a danger that Prime people won't return if they see an opportunity. (Spies and defector-chasers like Howard Prime appear to be an exception.) Baldwin apparently crossed using the documentation she stole at the beginning of Episode 1.

Those rules could be imposed by our side. Howard gets free reign because our side lets him, the Prime side doesn't seem concerned with what his contact is.

[meep.meep]

It seems clear to me that Howard Prime has some ulterior motive.  His idea that Howard Alpha should go stay in Prime in his place is really skeevy to me.

[mjc570]

I really want to like this show, mainly because of the excellent actors, but it is becoming harder and harder.  I guess we got some reasoning about why Howard Prime sought out Meek Howard (at his source Emily Alpha's request)  but how is dragging him into all of this "keeping him safe"? 

Speaking of Meek Howard - he is so simple-minded as to be ridiculous.  How could Emily have stayed married to him?  I understand that the JKS wants to show off his acting chops by portraying very different characters, (yeah, slack mouth, drooping shoulders, slumpy posture, got it)  but if I wanted to watch Forrest Gump, I'd watch forrrest Gump (and Banshee and Doll House reruns, but that's another issue).  Baldwin helpfully exposited about them "moving to the middle" but that hasn't happened yet AT ALL.  I assume we'll see that when Howard Alpha moves over to the other world, but geez. 

I really like Peter Quayle as written - although his FIL is a diplomat, I didn't get the impression t hat he got him that job.  I think Peter is competent as well as weaselly, he certainly seems to have a good handle on what is going on. 

I am a pretty shallow watcher (spoonfeed me, please!) but I immediately knew the message to Emily was a drop, and that the malfunctioning switch would mean she was poisoned.  I think it is all too predictable at this point, which is a shame, because the premise is so interesting. I'm hopeful that as more of the show is set in the Prime world it gets more interesting. 

I didn't get why the census records (as opposed to some tech, or resource mapping) were so important. 

[wilnil]

31 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

I didn't get why the census records (as opposed to some tech, or resource mapping) were so important.

Though they never said why, a couple things occurred to me while they were negotiating:

-- They'd show the impact of the disease as well as its progress over time (and regions, for a decent-size chunk of North America).

-- The data on employment would show which professional fields were growing, and which weren't, in Prime world, giving Alpha world more clues as to what technologies Prime was ahead or behind in.

-- Likewise, if the census data showed, say, a large migration of oil industry workers to, say, Nebraska, Alpha could infer that Prime had found oil deposits there that Alpha hadn't yet.

Basically, census data could be the most informative kind you could get short of a World Almanac (which I bet the customs agents on either side would confiscate).

[Bort]

5 minutes ago, wilnil said:

Though they never said why, a couple things occurred to me while they were negotiating:

-- They'd show the impact of the disease as well as its progress over time (and regions, for a decent-size chunk of North America).

-- The data on employment would show which professional fields were growing, and which weren't, in Prime world, giving Alpha world more clues as to what technologies Prime was ahead or behind in.

-- Likewise, if the census data showed, say, a large migration of oil industry workers to, say, Nebraska, Alpha could infer that Prime had found oil deposits there that Alpha hadn't yet.

Basically, census data could be the most informative kind you could get short of a World Almanac (which I bet the customs agents on either side would confiscate).

Census records would also be great for comparing all the doubles for people over 30. See whose double died off, if their careers are the same...

[marinw]

Favourite line:

“What do you think of your other?"

"I wish I never met him.”

That Flu PSA was creepy.

I find the bureaucracy that has sprung up since the split fascinating. It’s airport/boarder security on steroids. The way they pass from one realm to the other is so mundane as to be unsettling.

Edited February 7, 2018 by marinw

[hardy har]

The census stuff is intriguing. I wonder if the population of Prime World is significantly lower than Alpha’s due to the pandemic? And what happened post 2011? That was the latest year Richard Shiff was willing to give up, right?

Also, is the woman working with Baldwin a double for the Nurse in Alpha world? I was super tired when I watched this ep so my eyes may be playing tricks on me. 

[AudienceofOne]

I knew that Prime Howard was grooming Alpha Howard for something so when he sent him back in his place I groaned. Hopefully he is acting for the greater good and not doing something as simple as stealing Alpha's life. Either way, he clearly knew that they'd revoke his visa and insist on him going back and he needed Alpha to be at a point where he'd accept the switch. 

Some people might find the East/West Berlin analogy here to be a bit heavy handed but I personally think it works extremely well. Setting it in Berlin is the show's masterstroke for me.