The Soviet Union is No More: Casting News, Story Arc Info

[jjj]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, Oleg is in custody....he will either remain in holding, go to prison or be traded to Russia? Not likely he'll be killed now, right?

The one outcome I want is for Oleg to return to his family.  As for the Jennings, kill them, deport them, imprison them, serve them as appetizers -- I don't care what happens to them.  

[Ellaria]

39 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Can you be more specific? I'm not familiar with that article...

I can't be more specific. It has been widely quoted and referenced.

[Pickles]

In the previews for next week, when Paige asks "Do you think we can trust him?" is she talking about Henry?

[Ellaria]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

In the previews for next week, when Paige asks "Do you think we can trust him?" is she talking about Henry?

That's my guess. (At this point, who else could it be?) We hear them say that they are heading for NH. That should be a fun conversation. 

[JennyMominFL]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Well, it is on the way to Canada, but I agree, seems incredibly stupid.  Henry hasn't done anything, they could always get him later when they are safely in the USSR.

 

And Elizabeth grabbed canadian passports and money, so it makes sense

[jjj]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

In the previews for next week, when Paige asks "Do you think we can trust him?" is she talking about Henry?

I so think that is who she is asking about.  The preview misdirects us by showing old footage of Oleg as she asks this.  But after watching the preview several times, I also realized she must be asking about Henry.  

[hellmouse]

At first I was kind of annoyed seeing Paige in the car with Philip and Elizabeth in the preview. I felt cheated that we weren't getting just P&E alone so they could talk. I do think they'll be alone at the end, whether having escaped or been captured. But the drive from DC to NH is a long time and could have provided a chance for them to finally talk.  Except Paige is there.

But now I'm thinking Paige's recent confirmation about her mother using sex in her work, and discovery that her father does too, might be the thing that actually spurs a conversation. She seemed to think her father was duped into marrying a "whore". Maybe FINALLY she will be curious about how her parents met. Maybe she'll ask how they met and why they got married. 

And that will lead to them talking to her but really to each other about their marriage. Because Elizabeth is driving, they are in the same positions they were in their real marriage, so it's perfect for a flashback. And then Elizabeth actually has the rings! So the car trip with Paige could be the thing that finally brings them back together. 

[SunnyBeBe]

28 minutes ago, jjj said:

No, there was nothing new about Oleg in the preview.  It did show the old scene of him being arrested.  But his name was not mentioned.  It was deliberately misleading to show the old footage of Oleg. 

I am sure he will be in the finale.  It's just that they were not talking about saving him. 

So, isn't it Philip and E who are asking if it's possible to get "him" out in the finale preview or is that old stuff? Are they referring to Henry and not Oleg?

And, pardon me if this is already posted, but, I found the article amusing, especially about Renee:

Quote

 

As for Stan's personal life, Fields and Weisberg were quick to caution that even after three years, Philip's suspicion about Stan's spouse, Renee (Laurie Holden), hasn't necessarily been put to rest.

"Stand by," said Fields.

Weisberg offered, "Why end a story if you don't have to?"

 WATCH

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/americans-season-6-preview-time-jump-final-episode-1097618

[sistermagpie]

If he's traded to Russia it's to be executed probably.

[jjj]

19 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

If he's traded to Russia it's to be executed probably.

Unfortunately, that's true.  Oleg knows there is no exit, and that half-closing of his eyes when they put handcuffs on him was eloquent acting as he acknowledged it was all over.  

I'm just saying I want a happy resolution for Oleg, but can't see a way out. Unless his arrest is never revealed.  

26 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, isn't it Philip and E who are asking if it's possible to get "him" out in the finale preview or is that old stuff? Are they referring to Henry and not Oleg?

And, pardon me if this is already posted, but, I found the article amusing, especially about Renee:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/americans-season-6-preview-time-jump-final-episode-1097618

They did not say they were getting anyone out.  Paige asked if "he" could be trusted, and I think that means Henry.  They just said they were heading to New Hampshire, not that they were "getting out" anyone.

Hah,my hopes for Renee remain alive! Thanks!

Edited May 24, 2018 by jjj

[Pickles]

Maybe Henry is killed. Philip and Elizabeth are locked up. Paige is alone. Renee has to be a spy for the KGB and It will end with Stan left in the dark about that. Omg, who knows?

[Bannon]

4 hours ago, jjj said:

Unfortunately, that's true.  Oleg knows there is no exit, and that half-closing of his eyes when they put handcuffs on him was eloquent acting as he acknowledged it was all over.  

I'm just saying I want a happy resolution for Oleg, but can't see a way out. Unless his arrest is never revealed.  

They did not say they were getting anyone out.  Paige asked if "he" could be trusted, and I think that means Henry.  They just said they were heading to New Hampshire, not that they were "getting out" anyone.

Hah,my hopes for Renee remain alive! Thanks!

Good grief,  they really are going to have a lame, cheap, reveal of Renee as an illegal, as part of the closing scenes, aren't they? All season, I've been telling myself that couldn't possibly do something so tacky t.v.  but damned if that isn't where they are going! 

The actors have completely carried this show.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, it's pretty cheesy, if Renee shows up with a van and yells to the Jennings family, "Mother is expecting you!"   And then carts them off to a waiting plane or better yet, hides them in Stan's attic!  lol   I mean, if they are going to go crazy with this thing, they should have REALLY done it up right.  

(I should give credit, as someone around here previously suggested that Renee show up with a get-a-way van.)

[SunnyBeBe]

Maybe, the previews don't show Henry, because that would be a give-a-way that they do go after him.  OR it could be that they DON'T go after Henry and he doesn't even appear on camera.  I think I posted somewhere that I wonder if they can't reach him by phone, decide it's too risky, send a letter and take off for the border without him.  

[BingeyKohan]

23 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, it's pretty cheesy, if Renee shows up with a van and yells to the Jennings family, "Mother is expecting you!"   And then carts them off to a waiting plane or better yet, hides them in Stan's attic!  lol   I mean, if they are going to go crazy with this thing, they should have REALLY done it up right.  

(I should give credit, as someone around here previously suggested that Renee show up with a get-a-way van.)

Oh god I will never not laugh at the thought of Keri Russell in an 80s wig leering into a car window yelling "Mother is expecting you!" 

[jjj]

I said Renee was a spy from her first appearance in the gym.  It was classic Elizabeth pickup/honey pot, but for the long game.  Whatever she turns out to be (and I predict squeeing, whatever it is), some posters here will be bitterly disappointed.  But even if she is not a spy, I have been highly entertained at how they kept her dangling as a possibility for the likes of me! 

5 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Maybe, the previews don't show Henry, because that would be a give-a-way that they do go after him.  OR it could be that they DON'T go after Henry and he doesn't even appear on camera.  I think I posted somewhere that I wonder if they can't reach him by phone, decide it's too risky, send a letter and take off for the border without him.  

They said they were heading to New Hampshire, so I assumed they were heading for Henry.  Unless Carrie Mathison is waiting for them in New Hampshire with her own trunk full of spy escape items (this was from a few seasons ago on Homeland, when shehelped  Brody over the border -- in New Hampshire or Vermont, who can tell them apart?).

Edited May 24, 2018 by jjj

[SunnyBeBe]

1 minute ago, jjj said:

I said Renee was a spy from her first appearance in the gym.  It was classic Elizabeth pickup/honey pot, but for the long game.  Whatever she turns out to be (and I predict squeeing, whatever it is), some posters here will be bitterly disappointed.  But even if she is not a spy, I have been highly entertained at how they kept her dangling as a possibility for the likes of me! 

Yeah, and she's a good distraction from the pure heartbreak I will feel when, I mean, IF P bites the bullet. 

[BingeyKohan]

OK, @SunnyBeBe since you've nudged me over here in tag-free land, I'll restate my curiosities about the preview:

-Why the realistic P & E sketches and why that reaction from Stan? He has actual photos of them so why do they need sketches? The photos are small and the transmission technology is 80s era so a bigger sketch is more useful than a small photo? My other guess was that he's being shown sketches some other agency has had for a while and sat on and his 'I'm gonna kill 'em' is about whatever agency didn't show these to the FBI sooner.

-As stated elsewhere I don't get why we can't get one fast Henry close-up just to show us he's even in the episode. 

-I'm actually surprised there's not a fast shot of Renee just to draw out the tease since we know good and well we're going to see her job interview skills on display next week

-I feel like any preview scene with a Jennings in it was drawn from like the first 10 minutes of next week's show

[jjj]

3 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

OK, @SunnyBeBe since you've nudged me over here in tag-free land, I'll restate my curiosities about the preview:

-Why the realistic P & E sketches and why that reaction from Stan? He has actual photos of them so why do they need sketches? The photos are small and the transmission technology is 80s era so a bigger sketch is more useful than a small photo? My other guess was that he's being shown sketches some other agency has had for a while and sat on and his 'I'm gonna kill 'em' is about whatever agency didn't show these to the FBI sooner.

-As stated elsewhere I don't get why we can't get one fast Henry close-up just to show us he's even in the episode. 

-I'm actually surprised there's not a fast shot of Renee just to draw out the tease since we know good and well we're going to see her job interview skills on display next week

-I feel like any preview scene with a Jennings in it was drawn from like the first 10 minutes of next week's show

The sketches probably came from Father Andrei, who probably caved in about two minutes.  The sketches tell Stan that Philip and Elizabeth are the same illegals who have been meeting with Father Andrei.

I agree that all the new scenes are probably from the first ten minutes -- and the finale is 90 minutes long! 

As I noted above, most of the scenes in the preview are actually from old episodes.  That was a weird choice, but I guess they don't want to give anything away.

Edited May 24, 2018 by jjj

[BingeyKohan]

2 minutes ago, jjj said:

The sketches probably came from Father Andrei, who probably caved in about two minutes.  The sketches tell Stan that Philip and Elizabeth are the same illegals who have been meeting with Father Andrei.

But if they have Father Andrei and they have photos, why not just show him the photos and have him say, yep, that's them. Rather than spending hours producing sketches to secretly compare them against the photo, you know? 

[hellmouse]

I know that the hardliners in the KGB are anti-Gorbachev and will be angry that Elizabeth has thwarted their plan. But IMO it seems like it would be in the KGB's best interest to help Philip & Elizabeth escape from the USA. They don't want such long-term, highly valued intelligence officers captured by the FBI. Once they get back to Russia, of course, they may end up being imprisoned and/or killed. 

However, Arkady is still the Deputy Director of Directorate S and he would want to protect Philip & Elizabeth, assuming the hardliners don't come after him too. IMO even Claudia would want to protect them, at least to get them to Russia. I don't think she's going to call the FBI and turn them in, but I also don't think she's going to put out a hit on them. 

So the question in my mind is whether Philip & Elizabeth will seek help from the Rezidentura in Ottawa (the season 1 plan) or just try to make it out of the US and then out of Canada on their own. But I don't think you could just buy a plane ticket to Moscow. I think you'd need a visa, and that would have to be requested months in advance. 

Going to New Hampshire adds several hours to a trip from DC to Ottawa. It would be helpful if they were able to get Henry to meet them somewhere. They could say it's a make-up vacation since they weren't all able to be together at Thanskgiving. If they can get Henry to leave the school, that might lessen Stan and the FBI's chances of taking him in. On the other hand, without a car, there aren't really a lot of places he could easily get to that would be convenient to P&E&p en route from DC.

I just don't see all four of them making it out together. I can see P&E making it out but I think they're going to have to go without p&h. 

[Bannon]

14 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

My other guess was that he's being shown sketches some other agency has had for a while and sat on and his 'I'm gonna kill 'em' is about whatever agency didn't show these to the FBI sooner.

That makes a lot of sense.

[hellmouse]

8 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

But if they have Father Andrei and they have photos, why not just show him the photos and have him say, yep, that's them. Rather than spending hours producing sketches to secretly compare them against the photo, you know? 

I don't think they have a photo of Elizabeth. I may be wrong!

[BingeyKohan]

Just now, hellmouse said:

I don't think they have a photo of Elizabeth. I may be wrong!

Unless Stan is going to suddenly pretend he doesn't, he has the Elizabeth photo he showed Gregory's old ally and he has the Jennings photo he showed Oleg in the containment cell.

[hellmouse]

12 minutes ago, jjj said:

The sketches probably came from Father Andrei, who probably caved in about two minutes.  The sketches tell Stan that Philip and Elizabeth are the same illegals who have been meeting with Father Andrei.

I can imagine Father Andrei telling Aderholt all about Philip & Elizabeth's wedding ceremony and marriage issues. "You see, she cares about the whole world. She doesn't trust easily, but she trusts him. He is happier now that he's left this work, but not as happy as he could be."

It makes me think about that rabbi in Seinfeld who told everyone what others had told him. "In fact, she thought George was kind of a loser and that she should be the one getting married". 

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

If he's traded to Russia it's to be executed probably.

Sadly, it's very possible.

He does have an ace in the hole though, his father is connected, and knows about the plot to kill Gorbachev, and that Oleg is trying to prevent that.  Could his father get to Gorbachev and lay it all out?  I think that wouldn't be a long shot. 

If Oleg has time, the travel restrictions and other stuff are about to be lifted quite a bit, he could get out.

It's bleak though.

[hellmouse]

2 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

Unless Stan is going to suddenly pretend he doesn't, he has the Elizabeth photo he showed Gregory's old ally and he has the Jennings photo he showed Oleg in the containment cell.

Right, but they don't have a surveillance photo. I thought you were referring to the surveillance photos. 

[BingeyKohan]

Any chance Elizabeth is announcing their route so explicitly (let's get Paige and then head to New Hampshire..anndddd break!) because she knows they're being listened in on, and they actually don't plan to go to New Hampshire at all? They just know the FBI will waste time going there?

[jjj]

12 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

But if they have Father Andrei and they have photos, why not just show him the photos and have him say, yep, that's them. Rather than spending hours producing sketches to secretly compare them against the photo, you know? 

They could do that, but to get fresh evidence, they could ask for the sketches before showing the pictures.  Would be better for evidence in a future prosecution (which we will never see!).

And I have to say that if the FBI agents were on their game, they would have been taking pictures of the Father Andrei meeting while it happened, not just standing around.  But this is probably another plot hole.  Elizabeth always took photographs of her targets and the people they met. 

Now that I think of it, it is strange that the Jennings allowed their pictures to be taken BY AN FBI AGENT.  Generally, people undercover and on the run manage to avoid pictures.  I think they did in the Clark/Martha wedding (avoided being in pictures? or took them back?). 

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

OK, @SunnyBeBe since you've nudged me over here in tag-free land, I'll restate my curiosities about the preview:

-Why the realistic P & E sketches and why that reaction from Stan? He has actual photos of them so why do they need sketches? The photos are small and the transmission technology is 80s era so a bigger sketch is more useful than a small photo? My other guess was that he's being shown sketches some other agency has had for a while and sat on and his 'I'm gonna kill 'em' is about whatever agency didn't show these to the FBI sooner.

-As stated elsewhere I don't get why we can't get one fast Henry close-up just to show us he's even in the episode. 

-I'm actually surprised there's not a fast shot of Renee just to draw out the tease since we know good and well we're going to see her job interview skills on display next week

-I feel like any preview scene with a Jennings in it was drawn from like the first 10 minutes of next week's show

I'm thinking about the sketches vs. photo.  Maybe, Stan is afraid to use their actual photos, since he'll have to explain that it's his PERSONAL property.  Looks bad on him.

AND as far as Henry's image not appearing in the preview, HE IS listed as being in Start on Imdb.....SO is Renee, but, I don't put too much faith in that thing.    ????

[sistermagpie]

49 minutes ago, jjj said:

Now that I think of it, it is strange that the Jennings allowed their pictures to be taken BY AN FBI AGENT.  Generally, people undercover and on the run manage to avoid pictures.  I think they did in the Clark/Martha wedding (avoided being in pictures? or took them back?). 

Philip and Elizabeth Jennings are their every day identities that would be known to plenty of people so avoiding pictures is pointless. And potentially weird. It's their fake IDs that don't get pictures.

Quote

I'm thinking about the sketches vs. photo.  Maybe, Stan is afraid to use their actual photos, since he'll have to explain that it's his PERSONAL property.  Looks bad on him.

There's no reason he'd have to explain that. Besides he's openly chasing his neighbors.

Quote

AND as far as Henry's image not appearing in the preview, HE IS listed as being in Start on Imdb.....SO is Renee, but, I don't put too much faith in that thing.    ????

Henry is a regular castmember listed whether he appears or not. Not sure about Renee.

Edited May 24, 2018 by sistermagpie

[jjj]

6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm thinking about the sketches vs. photo.  Maybe, Stan is afraid to use their actual photos, since he'll have to explain that it's his PERSONAL property.  Looks bad on him.

AND as far as Henry's image not appearing in the preview, HE IS listed as being in Start on Imdb.....SO is Renee, but, I don't put too much faith in that thing.    ????

Oh, it is the finale, so I expect any number of major characters to show up in some way.  I am sure those two will be in scenes.  But I agree about the IMDB listings; those do change after episodes air.  I may have to depart the thread if we go down this path -- I even avoid the guest credits at the start of episodes, because I want to be surprised!  This is the longest I have spent in this thread, and it was purely the weird "preview" that included so many past scenes that drew me here.  See you in the episode thread!  And maybe -- the Renee thread!  (She is such a spy girl.  Or I am such a sucker for buying into the intrigue.)

Edited May 24, 2018 by jjj

[SunnyBeBe]

I don't think there's a good likelihood that they'll be any real spoilers.  lol I haven't found any, that's for sure.  That place is tight as all get up. 

[Anela]

[Anela]

7 hours ago, hellmouse said:

At first I was kind of annoyed seeing Paige in the car with Philip and Elizabeth in the preview. I felt cheated that we weren't getting just P&E alone so they could talk. I do think they'll be alone at the end, whether having escaped or been captured. But the drive from DC to NH is a long time and could have provided a chance for them to finally talk.  Except Paige is there.

But now I'm thinking Paige's recent confirmation about her mother using sex in her work, and discovery that her father does too, might be the thing that actually spurs a conversation. She seemed to think her father was duped into marrying a "whore". Maybe FINALLY she will be curious about how her parents met. Maybe she'll ask how they met and why they got married. 

And that will lead to them talking to her but really to each other about their marriage. Because Elizabeth is driving, they are in the same positions they were in their real marriage, so it's perfect for a flashback. And then Elizabeth actually has the rings! So the car trip with Paige could be the thing that finally brings them back together. 

I hope they all make it out together. I don't want them to just focus on them as a couple. They're a family. I think whatever reality check Paige had last night (still haven't watched it), means that they just talk openly now. 

I'm still kind of shocked by how many people hope that Paige is killed. 

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, Anela said:

I hope they all make it out together. I don't want them to just focus on them as a couple. They're a family. I think whatever reality check Paige had last night (still haven't watched it), means that they just talk openly now. 

I'm still kind of shocked by how many people hope that Paige is killed. 

Well, she has been murdering plainly innocent people in large numbers, in service to what was by 1987 an obviously failed ideology. I don't have a preferred outcome, other than it be well written, but I can see how people might prefer a character like that be killed off.

[Umbelina]

45 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm thinking about the sketches vs. photo.  Maybe, Stan is afraid to use their actual photos, since he'll have to explain that it's his PERSONAL property.  Looks bad on him.

AND as far as Henry's image not appearing in the preview, HE IS listed as being in Start on Imdb.....SO is Renee, but, I don't put too much faith in that thing.    ????

It's Stan's personal photo, he didn't take anything from the Jennings house.

30 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I don't think there's a good likelihood that they'll be any real spoilers.  lol I haven't found any, that's for sure.  That place is tight as all get up. 

Just the preview and the news that it will be 90 minutes.  Truly spoiler free people don't even want to know that much, and never watch previews.

Also, in the podcast, Costa certainly seems to say that Oleg goes to (stays in) jail, and it's worth it to him to try to save his country.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Umbelina

[Anela]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Well, she has been murdering plainly innocent people in large numbers, in service to what was by 1987 an obviously failed ideology. I don't have a preferred outcome, other than it be well written, but I can see how people might prefer a character like that be killed off.

Paige has? I thought that was Elizabeth. Why not want Elizabeth and Philip dying too?

Edited May 24, 2018 by Anela

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

Paige has? I thought that was Elizabeth.

D'ohhhhh! I swear I can read. I agree that seriously desiring that Paige be killed off is strange, other than as delivering horrible punishment to Liz, although that is still kind of weird.

[Anela]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

D'ohhhhh! I swear I can read. I agree that seriously desiring that Paige be killed off is strange, other than as delivering horrible punishment to Liz, although that is still kind of weird.

:)

[jjj]

The promo for the finale - new versus old, by scenes:

1. Jennings' answering machine picks up a call "we're not home" - NEW?
2. Stan in phone booth hangs up, looks thoughtful (we are meant to think he called the Jennings, who knows?) - NEW?
3. Elizabeth:  "Let's get Paige", and Philip nods - NEW
4. Elizabeth, with all three seen leaving Paige's apartment building, then overview of car on road: "..and then straight to New Hampshire" (different sentence from [3], but spliced together) - NEW
5. Stan, shaking head:  "All this time", then picture of happy days with Jennings and Sandra - NEW
6. Aderholt, "You're going to have to choose, now" (NEW?), while Elizabeth stands behind chickenwire fence (OLD?) and Philip is in same scene as [3] (NEW)
7.  Stan walking toward scene where Teacups were murdered - OLD
8. Paige in back seat of car, "Do you think we can we trust him?" - NEW
9. Oleg arrested and marched to car - OLD
10. Philip in front of car (passenger side!) - "Yes" (answer to Paige, apparently) - NEW
11. Stan lowers binoculars and looks into the distance, totally stunned - NEW
12. Voiceover: "Don't miss the final chapter", while Philip runs from the FBI in puffy jacket (OLD) and Elizabeth burns the Erica painting (OLD)
13.  Philip and Elizabeth in their Chicago disguises, apparently post-incident, on the way to drop evidence in the lake - OLD
14.  Aderholt slides the sketches to Stan; Stan looks at the sketches (or maybe surveillance photo of Philip?) and says: "I'm going to kill 'em" ("them" or "him"? who knows?!) - NEW

ETA:  edited No. 14 because Stan might be looking at something other than the sketches (can't see what he is viewing), so he might be seeing actual Philip in the park surveillance photographs.  

Edited May 25, 2018 by jjj

[BingeyKohan]

24 minutes ago, jjj said:

The promo for the finale - new versus old, by scenes:

1. Jennings' answering machine picks up a call "we're not home" - NEW?
2. Stan in phone booth hangs up, looks thoughtful (we are meant to think he called the Jennings, who knows?) - NEW?
3. Elizabeth:  "Let's get Paige", and Philip nods - NEW
4. Elizabeth, with all three seen leaving Paige's apartment building, then overview of car on road: "..and then straight to New Hampshire" (different sentence from [3], but spliced together) - NEW
5. Stan, shaking head:  "All this time", then picture of happy days with Jennings and Sandra - NEW
6. Aderholt, "You're going to have to choose, now" (NEW?), while Elizabeth stands behind chickenwire fence (OLD?) and Philip is in same scene as [3] (NEW)
7.  Stan walking toward scene where Teacups were murdered - OLD
8. Paige in back seat of car, "Do you think we can we trust him?" - NEW
9. Oleg arrested and marched to car - OLD
10. Philip in front of car (passenger side!) - "Yes" (answer to Paige, apparently) - NEW
11. Stan lowers binoculars and looks into the distance, totally stunned - NEW
12. Voiceover: "Don't miss the final chapter", while Philip runs from the FBI in puffy jacket (OLD) and Elizabeth burns the Erica painting (OLD)
13.  Philip and Elizabeth in their Chicago disguises, apparently post-incident, on the way to drop evidence in the lake - OLD
14.  Aderholt slides the sketches to Stan, who says: "I'm going to kill 'em" ("them" or "him"? who knows?!) - NEW

Love the attention to detail! Good catch on the audio splicing around the ‘straight to New Hampshire.’ She could be merely speculating about what the fbi will do. Most intrigued by Stan and binoculars!

[hellmouse]

3 hours ago, jjj said:

The promo for the finale - new versus old, by scenes:

1. Jennings' answering machine picks up a call "we're not home" - NEW?
2. Stan in phone booth hangs up, looks thoughtful (we are meant to think he called the Jennings, who knows?) - NEW?
3. Elizabeth:  "Let's get Paige", and Philip nods - NEW
4. Elizabeth, with all three seen leaving Paige's apartment building, then overview of car on road: "..and then straight to New Hampshire" (different sentence from [3], but spliced together) - NEW
5. Stan, shaking head:  "All this time", then picture of happy days with Jennings and Sandra - NEW
6. Aderholt, "You're going to have to choose, now" (NEW?), while Elizabeth stands behind chickenwire fence (OLD?) and Philip is in same scene as [3] (NEW)
7.  Stan walking toward scene where Teacups were murdered - OLD
8. Paige in back seat of car, "Do you think we can we trust him?" - NEW
9. Oleg arrested and marched to car - OLD
10. Philip in front of car (passenger side!) - "Yes" (answer to Paige, apparently) - NEW
11. Stan lowers binoculars and looks into the distance, totally stunned - NEW
12. Voiceover: "Don't miss the final chapter", while Philip runs from the FBI in puffy jacket (OLD) and Elizabeth burns the Erica painting (OLD)
13.  Philip and Elizabeth in their Chicago disguises, apparently post-incident, on the way to drop evidence in the lake - OLD
14.  Aderholt slides the sketches to Stan; Stan looks at the sketches (or maybe surveillance photo of Philip?) and says: "I'm going to kill 'em" ("them" or "him"? who knows?!) - NEW

ETA:  edited No. 14 because Stan might be looking at something other than the sketches (can't see what he is viewing), so he might be seeing actual Philip in the park surveillance photographs.  

This is great! 

I have been thinking about #8 and #10. The editing makes you think they're talking about Oleg, which is possible. Maybe Oleg is supposed to leave a signal saying he got the drop and they wait until nighttime to see if he does, but he doesn't, so they assume he's arrested. It's possible that they're talking about Father Andrei, since that's who Philip was meeting with, in which case it's ironic because they really can't trust him. And of course it's possible they're talking about Henry since New Hampshire is mentioned. But Paige knows Henry - she'd have an opinion on whether he can be trusted. She wouldn't have to ask her parents. 

I think they are talking about someone who is going to help them along the way - someone like the woman who posed as Aunt Helen or the woman in the cabin where Elizabeth recuperated. It will be someone Paige doesn't know and therefore isn't sure of. Of course, Philip and Elizabeth might not know him either but know that he is a contact between DC and Canada and they will need his help. 

[jjj]

17 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

This is great! 

I have been thinking about #8 and #10. The editing makes you think they're talking about Oleg, which is possible. Maybe Oleg is supposed to leave a signal saying he got the drop and they wait until nighttime to see if he does, but he doesn't, so they assume he's arrested. It's possible that they're talking about Father Andrei, since that's who Philip was meeting with, in which case it's ironic because they really can't trust him. And of course it's possible they're talking about Henry since New Hampshire is mentioned. But Paige knows Henry - she'd have an opinion on whether he can be trusted. She wouldn't have to ask her parents. 

I think they are talking about someone who is going to help them along the way - someone like the woman who posed as Aunt Helen or the woman in the cabin where Elizabeth recuperated. It will be someone Paige doesn't know and therefore isn't sure of. Of course, Philip and Elizabeth might not know him either but know that he is a contact between DC and Canada and they will need his help. 

I really don't think it is Oleg -- who mainly is unavailable because of being incarcerated.  The Jennings have very, very limited communications capability, now that Elizabeth has burned Claudia.  They have no one to help them.  I do think the editing is misleading us to *think* it is Oleg.  But interestingly, in response to a post on a different thread, I looked at the 90-second season preview, and it has some very misleading editing -- such as intercutting Philip and Stan and Oleg to make us think that what Stan is saying to Oleg, he is saying to Philip.  The preview monkeys really have fun with this show.  The main reason I listed all the scenes is that it kept occurring to me that so many of them were from previous episodes.  In a different season preview, they were intercutting Claudia telling Elizabeth to "take care of" the courier who went rogue (Mr. Teacup), but intercut so it sounds like Elizabeth is being told to "take care of" Stan Beeman, with a phrase lifted from another Claudia conversation. 

My guess is they are talking about trusting Henry, and it makes total sense to me that Paige would ask if they could trust him.  He is, after all, the outsider of their little spy clan.  But at this point, Paige really could be asking about anyone. 

I don't think we ever get to next Wednesday at the FBI (in the show's time) and Renee's interview -- unless her interview is the final scene, with a twist.  (Renee gets the job and leaves a chalk mark as she goes down the street!) 

Edited May 25, 2018 by jjj

[Umbelina]

They wouldn't stop for Oleg even if he was available, he told them he's being watched, and the woman in the cabin was killed by Larrick.

They are 100% on their own now.

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, jjj said:

My guess is they are talking about trusting Henry, and it makes total sense to me that Paige would ask if they could trust him.  He is, after all, the outsider of their little spy clan.  But at this point, Paige really could be asking about anyone. 

That would also be why Philip is the one answering that they can trust him. Maybe he's the person who even wants to get him at all. Which could be their downfall, of course.

Philip would be putting his trust in family the way he always has on the show before--that's his faith. We know for a fact that Elizabeth and Henry are practically estranged and Paige and Henry had zero to do with each other the one episode where they appeared together so there's no reason to think there's much relationship there. This would be the two sides of the family coming back together--with Henry being a super wild card. (One who recently said when the chips are down you should be there for your family.)

[Ellaria]

This is why I enjoy this forum. Thanks to @hellmouse and @jjj, I am now reconsidering scenes #8 and #10. I assumed that they were talking about Henry. That would be a wild scene: P&E&P show up at Henry’s school, take him out for pizza and announce that they are spies on the lam from the Feds. Henry will look at them with skepticism and decide that working in a tannery is better than life with his crazy family.

However, I don’t think that this trio makes it to NH.

Trusting Oleg doesn’t have to imply that he would help them. They are smart enough to know that they are on their own. Trust can simply mean that Oleg’s commitment to the cause would make him less likely to cooperate with the FBI. 

[jjj]

25 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

This is why I enjoy this forum. Thanks to @hellmouse and @jjj, I am now reconsidering scenes #8 and #10. I assumed that they were talking about Henry. That would be a wild scene: P&E&P show up at Henry’s school, take him out for pizza and announce that they are spies on the lam from the Feds. Henry will look at them with skepticism and decide that working in a tannery is better than life with his crazy family.

However, I don’t think that this trio makes it to NH.

Trusting Oleg doesn’t have to imply that he would help them. They are smart enough to know that they are on their own. Trust can simply mean that Oleg’s commitment to the cause would make him less likely to cooperate with the FBI. 

Ha!  I like this, except they would know they would not have time for pizza.  It would be more like "Surprise, Henry! Just jump into the moving car, because we are taking you out for ice cream ...in RUSSIA!" 

I just don't think Oleg is much of a factor -- Elizabeth and Paige do not know him, and Philip does not know that Oleg has been arrested.  I'd be more concerned about trusting Father Andrei (another candidate for "can we trust him?", because Philip totally knows the FBI is on the trail of Andrei, and that they probably already have him in custody, with Andrei not likely to out-run the other FBI agents at the park.  (There must have been three or four agents, if not more.) 

Edited May 25, 2018 by jjj

[Ellaria]

4 minutes ago, jjj said:

Ha!  I like this, except they would know they would not have time for pizza.  It would be more like "Surprise, Henry! Just jump into the moving car, because we are taking you out for ice cream ...in RUSSIA!" 

I just don't think Oleg is much of a factor -- Elizabeth and Paige do not know him, and Stan does not know that Oleg has been arrested.  I'd be more concerned about trusting Father Andrei (another candidate for "can we trust him?", because Philip totally knows the FBI is on the trail of Andrei, and that they probably already have him in custody, with Andrei not likely to out-run the other FBI agents at the park.  (There must have been three or four agents, if not more.) 

I agree that Oleg isn’t a likely factor. Think you mean that Phil doesn’t know that Oleg has been arrested, not Stan. 

I doubt that it’s Father Andrei because Phil told him to buy a plane ticket out of town. Don’t think they trust him, at this point.

I still think that it is Henry that they are referencing. It’s just an odd conversation.

[hellmouse]

37 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

They wouldn't stop for Oleg even if he was available, he told them he's being watched, and the woman in the cabin was killed by Larrick.

They are 100% on their own now.

I guess I don't understand why they wouldn't have any operational support from the KGB at all. Why would the Centre abandon two of their most valuable assets whose cover has been blown? I understand that they may be angry that Elizabeth went against orders and killed a KGB officer to protect Nesterenko. She told Claudia that she had reported the entire coup plot back to the Centre. The KGB might want to imprison and/or kill them back in Russia. 

But would they really do nothing at all to help the Jenningses get away from the FBI? Wouldn't it be worse for the KGB if they are caught in the US? 

I would understand if Philip and Elizabeth choose not to contact the KGB via Joan the operator if they don't want to be brought back to Russia and killed. But it's hard for me to picture the KGB abandoning them in enemy territory if they ask for help. Why would Arkady allow his Directorate S officers to be cut adrift like that?