Season Two: Perfecting the Mindfucking Technique!

[WendyCR72]

Just finished "Monster" -- somehow, I'd only ever seen the last maybe two minutes of it a long time ago, so it was one of those rare episodes where I had no memory at all.

Yeah, I picked up right away that this case was based on the Central Park jogger case. I was only a tween/teen then. Can't believe it was so long ago now. I think it was that case mixed with the Preppie Killer from around the same time frame.

I did like the foray into Central Park. It's one of the things I liked about the franchise. New York - the REAL one, and not another place or sound stage - was a character in itself.

And as for that nightgown, Eolivet, I THINK it was manipulated in its position to trap the dirty cop, but it was...a bit confusing.

[Eolivet]

. I think it was that case mixed with the Preppie Killer from around the same time frame.

 

Ah, I definitely don't remember that case. Central Park jogger, yes -- but not Preppie Killer.

 

That last scene in Central Park really was cool. You could see all their breath! I liked the authenticity. Sometimes it felt like the Law & Orders all took place in mid-autumn (trenchcoat weather). Nice to be reminded New York has four seasons.

 

I definitely got that they staged the photo to trap the dirty cop...I just didn't follow how. If the cop had looked at the photo and said "No way, her nightgown was pulled down!" then I could see it, but from what I saw, it seemed like the dirty cop mentioned her nightgown was pulled down and then Goren showed him the fake photo and was like "Yeah, we know you're lying." Bobby Goren will always be several steps ahead of everyone -- including me, heh heh.

 

Slightly off-topic, but I'm very excited that Ion is showing season 1 episodes tomorrow! It's been a while since I've seen season 1 -- I feel like they don't come up as often in the rotation (or not in the rotation around my viewing anyway).

[WendyCR72]

Slightly off-topic, but I'm very excited that Ion is showing season 1 episodes tomorrow! It's been a while since I've seen season 1 -- I feel like they don't come up as often in the rotation (or not in the rotation around my viewing anyway).

 

S1 is on sale on the cheap at Amazon through the end of today (9/6), Eolivet! Still, yeah, it takes a while for Ion to cycle through, what with showing all 10 seasons. Even Cloo is now showing CI repeats, but I don't get the channel. From the episode descriptions, Cloo is into the later years, so it's cool that Ion is back to S1 later today. Bobby was at his pretty cocky best early on!

 

I love Eames, but she seemed very...uptight very early on. She seemed to loosen up as S1 went along.

[Eolivet]

"Cuba Libre!" I'd seen it before, but had forgotten the particulars. Such a good episode. Full of twists and turns, but somehow not convoluted, just a constant guessing game. Doesn't hurt that Joel Grey is a great actor. One of the strongest episodes of season 2, in my opinion.

 

And Eames with the great one-liner:

"You're a devil!"

-"You should see me in a blue dress!"

 

(Sorry to just randomly blurt out opinions about random episodes -- I'm so used to just watching Criminal Intent and not being able to talk to anyone about it. It's nice to have friends.)

[WendyCR72]

(Sorry to just randomly blurt out opinions about random episodes -- I'm so used to just watching Criminal Intent and not being able to talk to anyone about it. It's nice to have friends.)

 

Comment away, Eolivet! Watching the marathon now, on S1, so a bit OT, but the scene of Bobby dancing in that Hispanic Hostess Bar in "Jones" is on. Rawr.  :-)

[wanderingstar]

I am in the midst of watching a S2 marathon on Ion. Just watched Best Defense, which I've always loved. David Marshall Grant also played a crooked lawyer on the Mothership (one of the Jamie Ross episodes if I'm remembering correctly).

[GHScorpiosRule]

I am in the midst of watching a S2 marathon on Ion. Just watched Best Defense, which I've always loved. David Marshall Grant also played a crooked lawyer on the Mothership (one of the Jamie Ross episodes if I'm remembering correctly).

You remember correctly.

[Donny Ketchum]

"Tomorrow" was on today, too, and . . . sigh.  I've gotta repeat how pathetic Hannah came off at the end.  From completely freaking out and totally collapsing like a ragdoll just over Sarah . . . I mean . . . really.

 

And I still don't understand what, exactly, Goren said to make her roll over on her sister.

[WendyCR72]

"Tomorrow" was on today, too, and . . . sigh.  I've gotta repeat how pathetic Hannah came off at the end.  From completely freaking out and totally collapsing like a ragdoll just over Sarah . . . I mean . . . really.

 

And I still don't understand what, exactly, Goren said to make her roll over on her sister.

 

Donny Ketchum, I think it was as simple as showing and telling Hannah that the sister she always thought would stick by her was leaving her behind, and she was probably angry, too, because of what she thought of as her sacrifice in wanting Sarah to have a family even if it separated them, and now Sarah was paying her back by allowing her to take the fall. (Which was basically the case since she had the high-powered lawyer and Hannah had that incompetent attorney.)

[GHScorpiosRule]

"Tomorrow" was on today, too, and . . . sigh.  I've gotta repeat how pathetic Hannah came off at the end.  From completely freaking out and totally collapsing like a ragdoll just over Sarah . . . I mean . . . really.

 

And I still don't understand what, exactly, Goren said to make her roll over on her sister.

 

 

 

 

Donny Ketchum, I think it was as simple as showing and telling Hannah that the sister she always thought would stick by her was leaving her behind, and she was probably angry, too, because of what she thought of as her sacrifice in wanting Sarah to have a family even if it separated them, and now Sarah was paying her back by allowing her to take the fall. (Which was basically the case since she had the high-powered lawyer and Hannah had that incompetent attorney.

 

Wendy, I think Donny Ketchum is wondering what Bobby said to Sarah, to convince her to roll over against Hannah, who was the one screaming. All we know is that the cops convinced the dead kids' father to hire a lawyer for Sarah, and they would use that to get Hannah.  Me? I want to know what happened AFTER, since the father was told, both sisters killed his children.  I was hoping after Sarah rolled over, the father would say that the high priced lawyer would have to recuse, due to non payment, unless the lawyer would continue to represent Sarah pro bono.

[Donny Ketchum]

No, I really meant what Goren said to Hannah, not Sarah.  He and Eames both tried to get to Sarah, but got nothing, so Hannah was clearly their only chance.

[GHScorpiosRule]

No, I really meant what Goren said to Hannah, not Sarah.  He and Eames both tried to get to Sarah, but got nothing, so Hannah was clearly their only chance.

 

Oops. My bad.

 

He probably said Sarah rolled over on her, which had her yelling it was all Sarah's idea. Or something. I really didn't care.

Edited September 14, 2014 by GHScorpiosRule

[WendyCR72]

Gotta admit, the scene of Bobby and Alex arresting the douchebag killer in "Baggage" was a bit fun. Making fun of the guy, Keith, who claimed to be some VP of Operations when he was a baggage handler or something as he hits on a woman named Steffy and as Alex interrupted, made small talk, and introduces Bob, the shipping magnate and Bobby tells Steffy that Alex is the Queen of Sheba.

 

On paper (In text?), it doesn't sound so great, but KE/VDO seemed to have some fun with it.

[Eolivet]

Gotta admit, the scene of Bobby and Alex arresting the douchebag killer in "Baggage" was a bit fun.

 

Yes! I loved how it built, WendyCR72. Bobby as a shipping magnate is a reasonable cover, but the scene got hilarious when Alex was introduced as the Queen of Sheba. And then didn't Bobby repeat all of their "professions," just to humiliate that guy further? "VP of Operations...shipping magnate...Queen of Sheba." A nice moment of levity in a really awful case.

[WendyCR72]

Yes! I loved how it built, WendyCR72. Bobby as a shipping magnate is a reasonable cover, but the scene got hilarious when Alex was introduced as the Queen of Sheba. And then didn't Bobby repeat all of their "professions," just to humiliate that guy further? "VP of Operations...shipping magnate...Queen of Sheba." A nice moment of levity in a really awful case.

 

Yeah, I really did like that scene. I think that's one of the things I missed in later CI were the brief glimpses of levity amidst the twisted perps and cases, Eolivet, and why I was glad to see it resurrected a little in the show's final season.

[WendyCR72]

No matter how many times I see it, I barely ever recognize Joel Grey in Cuba Libre. And Cold Comfort, brain stealing, is on now. Always felt sorry for the son of the murderer, having such a horrible disease so young...

[Eolivet]

Yeah, "Cold Comfort" is one of the few episodes where I feel so completely awful for one character and such loathing for another from the same family. While the son is absolutely sympathetic, I find the father absolutely vile. To take a life for some twisted chance of preserving a sample that probably had no prayer of saving his son is some completely disgusting morality. And purposely keeping his son in the dark, allowing him to pass on the disease without his knowledge, so the father's legacy could live on? Horrific. It's not as if the daughter even had the brain he was looking for -- she was collateral damage. That he had no problem disposing of her to get a sample of her father's DNA is just beyond the pale. I've felt more for senseless killers -- at least they were just evil. Somehow the idea that the father tries to justify himself makes his actions worse, to me.

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, "Cold Comfort" is one of the few episodes where I feel so completely awful for one character and such loathing for another from the same family. While the son is absolutely sympathetic, I find the father absolutely vile. To take a life for some twisted chance of preserving a sample that probably had no prayer of saving his son is some completely disgusting morality. And purposely keeping his son in the dark, allowing him to pass on the disease without his knowledge, so the father's legacy could live on? Horrific. It's not as if the daughter even had the brain he was looking for -- she was collateral damage. That he had no problem disposing of her to get a sample of her father's DNA is just beyond the pale. I've felt more for senseless killers -- at least they were just evil. Somehow the idea that the father tries to justify himself makes his actions worse, to me.

 

Someone posted pages back that the guy who played the Alzheimer's-inflicted son is now teaching acting rather than acting himself. Kind of a shame as he was very good in this role, but at least he is paying it forward.

 

As for the vile (I agree!) father of that fading son, I think Bobby summed him up perfectly. He had to be Man of the Millennium, and while he may have loved humanity, it really was people he couldn't stand. He was a megalomaniacal douche really looking out for #1, and it was disgusting that he would use his unsuspecting son, the son's fiancé, AND any future kids who may inherit the Alzheimer's gene to do it.

 

And the guy yelling about the mother's "weak genes" causing the son's illness was another douche move. The son must have gotten his conscience from his mother, because it damned sure wasn't from his poor excuse for a father.

[WendyCR72]

And hello again, Season 2! Where we soon meet Captain Joseph Hannah...er, Harry Rowan.

[WendyCR72]

The ten p.m. episode is the last one for this weekend, right? Or am I misremembering?

 

Where do you live? I am on the east coast and the last episode (for this marathon) ends at 1:00 a.m. ET. (Now a little after 11 here.) Next week, it ends at 3:00 a.m. ET. So, maybe? Unless you are out west and ion waits 'til 11:00 a.m. to start as it does here, in which case, it would end at 1 out there. If it corresponds, though, then yes. 10:00 p.m. would be it (as it would be 1 on the east coast.)

 

Clear as mud, @Chattygal?  :-)

[WendyCR72]

Oh, yeah, just chiming in to say of course last night's marathon ends with Nicole's first sighting. Of course!  :-P  If it was just that episode, I could have found it compelling, as I did the very first time I watched it...

 

But then she kept popping up like a dandelion.

[Spartan Girl]

"Bright Boy" is so hard to watch.  I absolutely hated that psycho abusive dad.  And I will always love Goren for stopping him from going after his son at the end for lying to him about the social worker's assessment.  It isn't the boy's fault you're a psycho control freak!

[WendyCR72]

"Bright Boy" is so hard to watch.  I absolutely hated that psycho abusive dad.  And I will always love Goren for stopping him from going after his son at the end for lying to him about the social worker's assessment.  It isn't the boy's fault you're a psycho control freak!

 

Exactly. For all of his issues, Goren always fought for the underdog or those whom he felt didn't have a voice. Maybe that was because of his issues with his own mentally ill mother, but still.

[WendyCR72]

Tonight the MyNetwork airings have some good ones: "The Pilgrim" with Ryder Strong from Boy Meets World as a zealot and Linda Lavin doing her best Yiddish impersonation in "Shandeh". Creepy yet kind of funny at the same time. Her son had zero backbone.

[WendyCR72]

Season 2 continues on MyNetwork tonight with "Con-Text" and "Monster", the latter with shades of the '80s Preppie Killer" and often taking me ou of the show at the end because all of the poor actors looked so damned cold in Central Park!

[Eolivet]

I saw "Con-Text" again when it aired, and it got a little more understandable the second time (but not by much, LOL). The guy who plays Andre Braugher's husband, Kevin, on Brooklyn 99 and the lawyer in the baseball lawyer firm on Parks & Rec played the...seminar-giving guy whose name escapes me. That was a nice discovery. I like when he "made" Goren and Eames just based on his belt buckle. That was Goren-esque!

 

I thought "Monster" was a really strong ep, though I've only seen it once. Season 2 had a mix of twisty cases and convoluted cases, and I thought "Monster" leant towards the former. Though I would've given anything for eps as complex as "Con-Text" in the later "straightforward" years of later seasons, though. Oh well, be careful what you wish for... :)

[WendyCR72]

I thought the guy who "made" Goren and Eames looked familiar! So thanks for pointing out that he is on B99, Eolivet! :-)

Although the episode itself was so strange and cultish to me.

But then, that was the point, I guess.

[Donny Ketchum]

Someone posted pages back that the guy who played the Alzheimer's-inflicted son is now teaching acting rather than acting himself. Kind of a shame as he was very good in this role, but at least he is paying it forward.

 

As for the vile (I agree!) father of that fading son, I think Bobby summed him up perfectly. He had to be Man of the Millennium, and while he may have loved humanity, it really was people he couldn't stand. He was a megalomaniacal douche really looking out for #1, and it was disgusting that he would use his unsuspecting son, the son's fiancé, AND any future kids who may inherit the Alzheimer's gene to do it.

 

And the guy yelling about the mother's "weak genes" causing the son's illness was another douche move. The son must have gotten his conscience from his mother, because it damned sure wasn't from his poor excuse for a father.

Was that the one with the black father and son, in which of them was the perp?  If not, which episode was that?

[WendyCR72]

Was that the one with the black father and son, in which of them was the perp?  If not, which episode was that?

 

No, you're thinking of "Pravda" in S3. "Cold Comfort" was in S2 which involved the daughter of a politician being stabbed to death in a bathroom because she wanted her father cryogenically frozen. The father of the grown son with Alzheimer's wanted the guy's brain to study it since the dead politician somehow miraculously recovered from his own Alzheimer's and went on with his career (welcome to TV!), so the philanthropist dad with the grown son had the dead man's daughter offed to get it.

 

(G/E bought the son in at the end as a "witness to a crime". The son was told he had a brain aneurysm/condition by his father and encouraged his son's engagement in hopes of grandkids to continue his legacy for when the son deteriorated, not caring the disease is hereditary and keeping it from the son and his fiancé. The son was told his medication was a series of vitamins for his "aneurysm". (He got the meds from doctors in his father's company.) With a medication book, Goren helped the son realize the truth of his condition to nail the father.)

[WendyCR72]

Watching "Anti-Thesis" on WE, a.k.a. the first Nicole sighting, really still makes me wish she was a one-and-done character.

[cooksdelight]

Just watched that, I cannot stand that woman.

[Spartan Girl]

"Best Defense" is on now. God that guy was a real scumbag. Pulling a Gone Girl on his wife just because she was more successful than him. And the way he whined about how his own daughter thought he was a joke made me furious; he was going to send her own MOTHER to jail just because his ego was wounded? Screw him.

[cooksdelight]

That actor always plays a whiney-ass with ulterior motives.

[WendyCR72]

"Best Defense" is on now. God that guy was a real scumbag. Pulling a Gone Girl on his wife just because she was more successful than him. And the way he whined about how his own daughter thought he was a joke made me furious; he was going to send her own MOTHER to jail just because his ego was wounded? Screw him.

And I didn't blame Bobby at all for keeping Carver out of the loop. At the very least, he seemed somewhat friendly with the suspect, having lunch and yapping about not wanting to "embarrass" the guy to both Alex and Bobby. IMO, he should have recused himself as he didn't seem objective. His little hissy fit at the end was ridiculous, especially since the narrative said it was only for a day or two.

 

Just watched that, I cannot stand that woman.

 

Oh, you know you'll get no argument from me where Nicole is concerned!

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah Carver was way too friendly with that guy. And it made perfect sense for them to keep him out of the loop if they wanted to catch that guy in the act.

[WendyCR72]

Yeah Carver was way too friendly with that guy. And it made perfect sense for them to keep him out of the loop if they wanted to catch that guy in the act.

 

Always did make me wonder if and how Carver "got back to" Bobby. I liked how Alex brushed off Carver's pique with a simple, "he'll get over it". And this was after Carver threatened to take Goren's badge in S1, which also made no sense as it was a deal already offered. Goren just got the priest to take it.

[WendyCR72]

Ah, irony. Just talking about Mark-Linn Baker and Bronson Pinchot on CI the other day and MLB's episode, "Probability" is on WE as I type. Wally really was an odd guy. He made Bobby look conventional.

[cooksdelight]

I'm watching too. "Monster" and "Cuba Libre" are up next. I love watching Joel Grey constantly freaking out.

[Donny Ketchum]

A few days ago, I DVR'd "Tomorrow."  My God.  I'm once again reminded of something I really wish I'd kept forgetting.  Has anyone been that desperate (or shrill) at staying with a loved one that crazy Hannah?  Even to the point of rolling on Sarah, whom she supposedly should've loved enough to at least make sure she got off?

 

The actress was good, but my God, the screaming!

[cooksdelight]

Merritt Wever (Hannah) won an Emmy for her work on Nurse Jackie and probably gave the shortest acceptance speech in history. "Thank you!" :)

I've often thought that Noelle Beck (the wife) has been on the most episodes of any L&O franchise. Other than people who play defense attorneys, of course.

[WendyCR72]

A few days ago, I DVR'd "Tomorrow."  My God.  I'm once again reminded of something I really wish I'd kept forgetting.  Has anyone been that desperate (or shrill) at staying with a loved one that crazy Hannah?  Even to the point of rolling on Sarah, whom she supposedly should've loved enough to at least make sure she got off?

 

The actress was good, but my God, the screaming!

To be fair, the birth father skipped and the birth mother died of AIDS while in prison when the girls were small, so they probably only had each other in foster care until Sarah was adopted.

Hannah was just too damaged. If she wasn't, Sarah's adoptive parents would've adopted her, too, but Hannah was forever stuck with the fantasy that her father was going to come back for her.

[Donny Ketchum]

To be fair, the birth father skipped and the birth mother died of AIDS while in prison when the girls were small, so they probably only had each other in foster care until Sarah was adopted.

Hannah was just too damaged. If she wasn't, Sarah's adoptive parents would've adopted her, too, but Hannah was forever stuck with the fantasy that her father was going to come back for her.

Damaged or not, it didn't excuse either of their crimes.  Or Hannah rolling on Sarah when Sarah never rolled on Hannah, even when Goren and Eames gave her the perfect opportunity to in exchange for a life sentence rather than the death penalty.

 

Not to say they shouldn't have gone down.  They should've.  I'm just not pleased with how it did.

[WendyCR72]

I've often thought that Noelle Beck (the wife) has been on the most episodes of any L&O franchise. Other than people who play defense attorneys, of course.

 

I think Jenna Stern has her beat. I know she was on four CI episodes alone ("Crazy", S1; "My Good Name", S4; "Endgame", S6; "Cadaver", S10). She also did a bunch more for the Mothership and SVU.

 

If I recall, there was some page that listed most of her appearances on the franchise and they were numerous.

[cooksdelight]

Yeah, but she played a recurring role as a judge. I am talking about guest roles. :)

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, but she played a recurring role as a judge. I am talking about guest roles. :)

 

But she also had a lot of non judge roles. She also played two or three different ADAs among others. So I am still giving her the slightest of edges over Noelle Beck.  :-) Even so, I think those two had a good 5% to 10% of the roles throughout the franchise.

[cooksdelight]

One day when I have time, if I ever do, LOL... I'm going to research which actor and actress had the most roles across all the various franchises that were not recurring roles.

[WendyCR72]

One day when I have time, if I ever do, LOL... I'm going to research which actor and actress had the most roles across all the various franchises that were not recurring roles.

 

Gee, cooks, I hope you have years of free time to embark on that little endeavor. LOL!

 

On an unrelated note, I see "Blind Spot" (the CI episode, not the new NBC show with the same name!) is on the WE weekend marathon in the next three weeks. Good one as far as the acting and drama goes. Even if I still have an issue with Eames getting victimized.)

 

Which has zip to do with Season 2. Just saying.  :-)

[WendyCR72]

"Person of Interest" is on now and while it isn't a favorite, I do like how it sort of ties into the last episode, "Zoonotic" with the anthrax angle, not leaving the ending of "Zoonotic" to just hang. So, a sequel that isn't, in a way.

[cooksdelight]

I cannot stand the egotistical doctor.

[WendyCR72]

I cannot stand the egotistical doctor.

 

Do you mean the conceited pervy vet in "Zoonotic"? Yeah, he was definitely a piece of shit work!

 

And what did I do to the TV Gods? I turned on the ION marathon to see what is airing and it's freaking "Palimpsest". UGH! (I truly believe it is the worst episode of the entire series and doesn't feel L&O-ish at all in tone.)