S13.E06: Tombstone

[RulerofallIsurvey]

This episode, no, I didn't think that the show gave more of Dean's reaction to Cas' return than Sam's.  I was also pleasantly surprised by that.  I was just pointing out another possible viewpoint.  That had my mind been predispositioned to a 'TPTB hate Sam' mode, it would have been easy, imo, to support that theory with the choice of directing between the end of the last episode and the start of this one.  I thought I made it clear that I don't actually think that, but if I didn't previously, I want to reiterate it.  I don't actually think that TPTB hate Sam.  Or Dean.  

I'm sure the opening scene - and the delay in seeing the guys' reaction to Cas* -  was by design, but I'm not quite sure what that design was.  It was jarring.  If the intent was to make the reunion more poignant and powerful, then it failed, imo.  By the time they got back to it, it was almost an 'oh, by the way, here's what also happened' moment.  I think it should have been bigger than that.  

*Not sure it's been mentioned in this thread, but I saw it mentioned elsewhere: we didn't even see them 'test' Cas to make sure he was actually Cas: no holy water, no silver, etc.  Along with the terrible shooting this episode, it kind of makes both guys look sloppy.  And they aren't sloppy hunters.  

I'm not sure my expectations were high at all.  Although, since I think the season so far has been really enjoyable, I guess I did expect to enjoy this episode more also.  I just didn't.  I agree it didn't live up to it's potential, even so far as the set/hotel room, as DDD pointed out.  

[MysteryGuest]

18 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

That had my mind been predispositioned to a 'TPTB hate Sam' mode, it would have been easy, imo, to support that theory with the choice of directing between the end of the last episode and the start of this one.  I thought I made it clear that I don't actually think that, but if I didn't previously, I want to reiterate it.  I don't actually think that TPTB hate Sam.  Or Dean.  

I understood what you were saying.  And I agree that it's easy to get a bit laser-focused on one perspective, and forget that there's another side.  Sadly, that's as true in life as it is on this show.  The inconsistent writing doesn't help, either.

[gonzosgirrl]

11 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

First, I was excited from the “Then” portion that the episode was going to pick up right where Advanced Thanatology left off with the boys seeing Cas.  But it didn’t.  Suddenly, there’s Dean hunting in a cemetery with some other officer of the law.  Now, especially since the last episode ended on Dean, and this one started with Dean, I was really disappointed at the delayed gratification of seeing both guy’s reaction to finding Cas.  If I were more a conspiracy theorist, I might think it’s because TPTB hate Sam, but I don’t really think that, at least not so far, so I’m going to chalk that up to a bad directing move.  The director of this ep probably didn’t even know that the last one ended with only Dean’s reaction to seeing Cas and how that might come across to some fans, especially with this episode starting with only Dean hunting and not showing Sam.  Mind you, I’m not making this Bitch vs. Jerk.  But I will say, if it had been the opposite – there would be a lot of angry Dean fans.  

I don't know how this isn't a B v J thing.

11 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

The season 8 parallels are pretty strong this season, and they continued for me in the episode as well with Dean saying that he didn’t even know Cas could be brought back.  Again, this isn’t Bitch vs. Jerk.  I actually think Dabb is doing a really good job with it.  Dabb has shown the real ramifications of losing someone (Dean losing Cas and Mary versus Sam losing Dean) and not knowing where they went (The Empty verus Purgatory) and thinking it wasn’t even possible to get them back with showing Dean’s descent into depression and hopelessness.  That’s what we should have seen at the beginning of S8 with Sam.  But since I can’t go back and change the past, I’m glad Dabb hasn’t given Dean the Carver treatment Sam got.  I know there are some people who will never even consider the possibility that maybe Sam had a breakdown or bout of depression after Dean exploded in a mess of black goo and disappeared, and that wasn’t Dabb’s fault, but I think with showing what Dean has been going through this season so far, Dabb, in his own way, is trying to make up for it.  Because if we can watch Dean and say, ‘yeah, all that makes sense as to why Dean would feel this way’ then imo, we should be able to think about Sam’s reactions at the beginning of S8 a little more sympathetically also -  especially since Sam was all alone back then and Dean at least has had his brother through this.  Possibly veering into BvJ territory for a split-second: it does make the treatment Sam got from Carver look that much worse by comparison.  But like I said, I’m glad Dabb hasn’t done that to Dean and overall, it’s almost as if he’s trying to make up for what Carver did.  

Or this. So I'll respond there, except to say I agree Dabb is dropping a gigantic S8 anvil on our heads this season.

 

11 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Jack continues to be a delight.  His simple joy at having refined some of his powers re the pencil trick was adorable.  And him finding the case was a nice touch too.  To see him go from that to the end was hard.  He doesn’t understand yet that he needs the support he can get from Cas and Sam right now more than ever.  I thought I heard angel wings flapping when he left, which was weird.  

Yes, the spawn of Satan is delightful, which is probably the most head-scratching turn of events possible after the build-up it was given. Seems like Dean fell for all the red herrings of how evilicious the Spawn would be, just like I did, and reacted (at first) accordingly. Foolish of us!

[RulerofallIsurvey]

3 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I understood what you were saying.  And I agree that it's easy to get a bit laser-focused on one perspective, and forget that there's another side.  Sadly, that's as true in life as it is on this show.  The inconsistent writing doesn't help, either.

Or multiple sides, as the saying about three sides to every story goes.  :)  

Overall though, I think the writing has been pretty consistent this season.  This episode though...yeah, it was all over the place.  The direction was too.  

[Wayward Son]

Still really enjoy this episode especially the opener scene and the talk between Cas and Jack while the others sleep! One of my favourites of the season far! Much better than the cow dung of an episode Yockey gave us the week before! 

[takalotti]

Even after seeing the whole episode, I’m still not really sure what the benefit was for opening the show with a 48 hours later segment, and then going back to where 13.05 left off.

 

I know it would be too silly of a bit for such a poignant scene, but with how many times they’ve all been brought back I think there should be a little "holy water, iron, silver, whatever else" routine they go through every time now. Even if it’s done amid the What Happened To You kind of dialog, just passing objects and flasks back and forth.

 

I’m a little surprised Dean brought Cas right to Jack without any fuss. In the big argument at the end of 13.03, Dean blamed Jack for Cas' death because Jack "tricked" Cas with empty promises of paradise and that’s what made Cas go so overboard protecting Jack. I’m not saying he actually could have kept Cas from Jack, but I just thought there’d be some resistance. "No way! I’m not gotta let you sacrifice yourself for him again!"

 

I was also a little surprised Jack was able to guess who Cas was. When he was born, he asked "Father?" to at least Sam and the pirate statue, so I don’t think he’s known what Cas looked like from the womb (#SentencesWeNeverExpectedToUtter, #HashtaggingOutsideOfSocialMedia). Since then, I remember Jack getting a flash of red-eyed, chained-up Lucifer, but I’m not remembering if he had such a flash about Cas. If not, I guess maybe he saw some pictures that the boys have? Or maybe he recognized Cas' voice? 

 

Loved watching the bison nose boop again now that I know what he was doing. I think when Dean jumped back he mumbled "That's real," so I guess he went in thinking it would feel plasticky but it actually felt like skin.

 

I get what some are saying about Cas seeming off, having lots of instances of pausing before responding which could be because he’s actually EmptyCas and needs an extra moment to dig through the memory download. But then there will also be moments like when Jack jumps up to wake the boys and Cas immediately tries to stop him, no pause at all. So I’m still undecided. It could also be that his experience in the Empty (or the possible terms he left on) has left him more carpe diem-y, soaking up every minute rather than rushing through them.

 

Has Jack flinched at the threat of being hurt before? Since he’s never actually been WOUNDED, why would he seem scared of Dean almost shooting him?

 

Sorry sorry, I know I’m not the only one who noticed, but I love these little nuggets...

Cas: I told you. He’s an angry sleeper. Like a bear.

</Destiel Realist giggling>

 

Can we get an episode with movie night in the bunker? Please?

 

Gotta love the "we'll fit right in" followed by donning cowboy hats and wearing a bolo tie and cowboy boots, saying "howdy, partner" and "much obliged," and then none of the cops are wearing any such accessories or saying any such cliche southern phrases. 

 

Anyone here watched Pushing Daisies? Sarge and the Coroner do the same skeptical "Mmhm."

 

I thought Sam's amusement at Jack using an EMF detector in a graveyard was cute.

 

No eyeroll from Sam when Dean mocked Dave for enjoying playing cowboy?

 

Just weighing in on the topic of the guard: I simply assumed that the only meaning of Cas' touch having no effect was because the guard was already dead (meaning he could heal injuries but not revive someone who's dead). Cas' body language wasn’t "why doesn’t my touch work?" He looked at Jack like "I’m sorry, it’s too late." But I also don’t have detailed memories of when an angel was able to just touch a dead person back to life like you guys do.

 

I don’t mind the slapstickish "Nope, mm-mm, I don’t wanna, okay" dive into the hole, the Die Hard silliness, or the fall out the tunnel door (he did look around first). But when dealing with a ghoul, which can take the form of the dead person it eats and had the opportunity to kill Athena and/or the Sarge, isn’t it a little sloppy to assume Athena and Sarge are the original models? Not that I know how you test for a ghoul, and it’s all moot since Dave shows up a second later, but still. (Same with later when Dean shows up at the bunker, though that can make more sense because how would Dave know where the bunker was?)

 

And there was way too long a pause between "No, but he is" and the Sarge firing. Dave could have totally shot someone in that time. No reason they couldn’t have had the Sarge shoot immediately and then cut to him still holding the gun.

 

It seemed weird that Cas was just sitting during Jack's meltdown. I guess it was supposed to show that he wasn’t going to be confrontational, just supportive by listening and giving him space? I don’t know. He doesn’t even lean in (just barely sits up at the very end). It’s a very passive posture.

 

How the dialog should have gone...

J: Every time I try and do something good, people get hurt.

D: Yeah, that’s kind of the Winchester way. Welcome to the family.

 

I thought for sure that while hearing platitudes from Sam and Cas would be meaningless to Jack because he knew they already liked him, Dean's sympathetic comments would sink in since he knows Dean doesn’t want to think well of him. So I thought he’d settle down and start to forgive himself. Wasn’t expecting him to take off, and in such an ironic fashion.

Edited January 23, 2018 by takalotti

[ahrtee]

27 minutes ago, takalotti said:

But I also don’t have detailed memories of when an angel was able to just touch a dead person back to life like you guys do.

Well, off the top of my head, Cas with Bobby in Swan Song, Gadreel with Cas after he was killed by April the Reaper (can't remember the ep name) and Charlie in Slumber Party.  Of course, it only seems to work with favorite characters, not bit players or guest stars :)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 1/23/2018 at 11:31 AM, takalotti said:

I know it would be too silly of a bit for such a poignant scene, but with how many times they’ve all been brought back I think there should be a little "holy water, iron, silver, whatever else" routine they go through every time now. Even if it’s done amid the What Happened To You kind of dialog, just passing objects and flasks back and forth.

I would love this. 

[catrox14]

On 1/23/2018 at 8:31 AM, takalotti said:

I know it would be too silly of a bit for such a poignant scene, but with how many times they’ve all been brought back I think there should be a little "holy water, iron, silver, whatever else" routine they go through every time now. Even if it’s done amid the What Happened To You kind of dialog, just passing objects and flasks back and forth.

IMO, that was on purpose to show that Dean was utterly bereft after Cas died and him still thinking Mary is dead in the AU; to show how much Cas' death messed Dean up and he wasn't going to even question whether Cas was Cas. I think he also may have chosen to believe that Chuck answered his prayer in some way. Mostly I think Dean just didn't care because he has his BF back. 

[takalotti]

43 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

IMO, that was on purpose to show that Dean was utterly bereft after Cas died and him still thinking Mary is dead in the AU; to show how much Cas' death messed Dean up and he wasn't going to even question whether Cas was Cas. I think he also may have chosen to believe that Chuck answered his prayer in some way. Mostly I think Dean just didn't care because he has his BF back. 

True.

And all of the following is moot, but really what I’m thinking is that this routine is something that should have been in place for a long time. Basically since Bobby doused Dean after Cas brought him back from hell (ETA: Actually, now that I’m thinking about it, back then it would have been pretty funny if Dean had doused himSELF with holy water while at the gas station or something). So by this point it would be a routine thing that they just do, not even a decision really. Dean could still be messed up and not even question whether Cas is Cas, but out of habit Sam would just start up the process while they were all talking. And even if Cas were EmptyCas, I'd imagine he’d still pass all the tests so it wouldn’t have messed up any possible twist that might be coming.

And now I’m picturing Dean singing My BF's Back to all the baddies of the world.

Edited January 24, 2018 by takalotti

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, takalotti said:

True.

And all of the following is moot, but really what I’m thinking is that this routine is something that should have been in place for a long time. Basically since Bobby doused Dean after Cas brought him back from hell. So by this point it would be a routine thing that they just do, not even a decision really. Dean could still be messed up and not even question whether Cas is Cas, but out of habit Sam would just start up the process while they were all talking. And even if Cas were EmptyCas, I'd imagine he’d still pass all the tests so it wouldn’t have messed up any possible twist that might be coming.

And now I’m picturing Dean singing My BF's Back to all the baddies of the world.

I actually expected Sam to do something himself. I still don't know why he didn't other than Dean was happy and maybe he didn't want to know himself.

[takalotti]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I actually expected Sam to do something himself. I still don't know why he didn't other than Dean was happy and maybe he didn't want to know himself.

Most likely a case of subconsciously just following his big brother's lead. 

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, takalotti said:

Most likely a case of subconsciously just following his big brother's lead. 

I think it was more that he didn't want to know himself nor be the person that breaks Dean's heart if he had to tell him that Cas wasn't Cas.

[The Companion]

On 11/16/2017 at 10:24 PM, catrox14 said:

Misha live tweeting

Hee. I am so glad these were memorialized. I miss out on these things as a late viewer.

On 11/17/2017 at 2:29 AM, Omegamom said:

Guys, Dean was happy! So. Damned. Happy! That made me feel so good. He got Cas back, and he got to do Western cosplay, and he got to do a shootout with a Real Live (okay, dead) famous gunslinger!

 

Yes! 

I apparently reacted very differently than a lot of viewers on this one. I loved it. Loved loved loved. 

This show can be very dark. I mean, last week was about some kids getting murdered by a ghost doctor who abused his patients. I need the silliness and lightness from time to time to keep it from getting to be too much. Admittedly, I trend away from dramas anyway,  only watching them if there is sci fi or horror. When I get home after a long day, I just don't have it in me to invest my emotions in a drama most of the time. So, I appreciate a little levity. That is why the silly episodes of this show hit so well with me. And this one was somewhat silly and happy. I loved Dean nerding out over the gunslingers. I wanted to send a fruitbasket to that ridiculous and amazing room with the bizarre cowboy cutouts between the bedroom and the living room area. I liked the idea of a ghoul gunslinger with a girlfriend. And most of all, I enjoyed watching some honest to goodness happiness for one of our characters, particularly one who was ready to die last episode. 

Add in the reunion with Castiel and I really loved this. 

On 11/17/2017 at 2:56 AM, companionenvy said:

 

I also want to point out that for all the flak Perez got last year for sidelining Dean in the climax of American Nightmare, in this episode, he randomly sent both Cas and Sam  back to the bunker with Jack, because apparently Jack needed two chaperones, while it was A-OK for Dean to go after the ghoul on his lonesome. In fact, Sam was pretty much a non-entity for the whole episode. So it seems that maybe Perez is less anti-Dean, than a writer who struggles with figuring out how to juggle his characters. 

Well, to be fair, Castiel didn't do a great job of watching Jack (in utero) last time. 😋

Kidding, obviously. I agree that it was a strange choice that falls under "for plot reasons."

On 11/17/2017 at 8:25 AM, Bobcatkitten said:

Oh yeah, one little part that was awesome was them carrying their dry cleaned suits. I thought that was funny given how crazy it always is that they pull the suit out of nowhere and it's always perfectly pressed. 

I noticed and really liked this detail.

On 11/17/2017 at 8:50 AM, Katy M said:

I beg to differ. I could give oodles of examples of Cas being an idiot.

I mean, I really like Cas but this definitely made me giggle.

 

On 11/17/2017 at 9:36 AM, Wayward Son said:

Maybe his God like powers allow him to know that Sam and Dean possess Starring character invincibility LOL

Particularly when it comes to head trauma. 😂

On 11/18/2017 at 11:13 AM, catrox14 said:

More Dean being a goofball in this episode. I didn't notice it in the episode and I'm sad that I missed it. 

Dork

I miss this. That is amazing.

On 11/19/2017 at 8:22 PM, SueB said:

I'll do a brief summary of thoughts by category.  I t helps me to cover the topics.  Real the TL:DR at the bottom for the bottom line.

Plot: Once again, I have to say the MOTW episode is eclipsed by the season-long arcs.  Now it was an entertaining enough MOTW case, but it was how it reflected the rest of the season that captured my attention. Dean gets his win at LAST.  And boy did we need that hug.  (see message) In terms of the plot parallels, we're obviouslyl hitting the "monster choses to be a monster" theme with the shapeshifter's choices and Jack's fears.  I thought "Sarg" and the undertaker were well-drawn characters.  I loved Dean getting to declare Team Free Will 2.0.  But from my perspective, I liked the expansion of the mythology on ghouls to include they make a series of tunnels under the ground to get to the corpses.  I guess they need to be careful where they do that so the ground doesn't cave.  And I'm surprised he let the undertaker still put in the formaldahyde -- that's gotta taste icky.  I mean, I KNOW he was keeping his monster-status a secret but.. bleech.  I thought the 'shoot-out' outside the bank was a little too cute and required the boys to be a much poorer aim than they really are.  But the point (IMO) was to setup the guard dying.

Characters:

Sam: He seems subdued.  Like he's waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm glad he engaged Dean on finally getting a win,, but Sam seemed nervous the whole time IMO.  Like getting Cas back was too good to be true.  I think he might circle round to that again.

Dean: So VERY ADORABLE in his Cowboy geek-out.  Everytime I see him have one of these little boys moments it's both joyful and sad. Joyful because he's otherwise such an angsty character and it's a relief to see him so happy, but sad because the reason these things bring out his inner child is that he never got to BE a child.  Ouch.  I felt a kindred spirit with Dean's encyclopedic knowlede of all things 'cowboy'.  Note: on the SPNHon (Conolulu) video of Misha, Misha indicated Jensen was pretty stoked to put on the cowboy gear --- so there's a little character/actor bleed there.  He also said the script only said 'bowlegged walk' which means it was all the director and editors for that awesome sequence.  Back to Dean - I LOVE LOVE how Jack sees Dean as the real authority figure that he tries to please.  It's Dean he runs to wake up, it's Dean he wants to make happy, and it's Dean who he demands the truth from.  I love that they have formed that relationship.  I'm also thrilled that Dean is seeing Jack earned his humanity.  Jack is truly horrified and eaten up by the security cop's death.  "Did he have a family?!" might have been words Dean would have spoken.  Jack seems to have developed some of Dean's sense of right/wrong and Dean is responding to that.  He really has changed a bit towards Jack.  Also, it was hard to see him send Sam & Cas home with Jack but it was a practicle decision.  Loved that he made sure Sarg closed the books on the bank guard's death.

Cas: "I'm your Huckleberry." Why yes, yes you are.  Misha was in fine form with his dead-panned lines all episode.  And he did such a great job of selliing true caring for Jack.  That boy means a lot to Cas.  And not just a means to an end. I'm a little freaked Cas has no healing powers.  I thought he was coming back stronger.  This is not stronger.  But he's still full-angel because he doesn't sleep.  

Jack: My precious cinnamon role.  Alexander Calvert is AMAZING.  He conveys his feelings so transparently and layered.  This is a real find for the show IMO.  From his puppy-happy "I moved the pencil!" and "I know what Zombies are now!", to his heart-rending "I will hurt you all", he's got range.  And it's perfect.  I KNEW as soon as Sam and Cas were trying to talk to Jack, in the car, that Jack was ready to explode. He doesn't want platitudes, he wants facts.  And Sam is afraid of him.  He knows that.  That's a horrible feeling.  And not Sam's fault but it's leaking out of Sam's skin.

Bottom Line for the TL:DR; Again this was an excellent episode.  Such character work!  Such eye candy!  Such comedy.  And Cas is back, so all else is less imporant -- because we got our Cas back (and he seems de-powered but still himself). I am TOTALLY on-board with Team Free Will 2.0

All of this, and particularly the impact of seeing one of these guys happy. 

 

I feel like I really needed this episode. The one off episodes have remained really plot heavy and they haven't been as fun, so I appreciated something a bit lighter. Particularly on the heels of an old school ghost episode. 

[S Cook Productions]

8 hours ago, The Companion said:

Hee. I am so glad these were memorialized. I miss out on these things as a late viewer.

Yes! 

I apparently reacted very differently than a lot of viewers on this one. I loved it. Loved loved loved. 

This show can be very dark. I mean, last week was about some kids getting murdered by a ghost doctor who abused his patients. I need the silliness and lightness from time to time to keep it from getting to be too much. Admittedly, I trend away from dramas anyway,  only watching them if there is sci fi or horror. When I get home after a long day, I just don't have it in me to invest my emotions in a drama most of the time. So, I appreciate a little levity. That is why the silly episodes of this show hit so well with me. And this one was somewhat silly and happy. I loved Dean nerding out over the gunslingers. I wanted to send a fruitbasket to that ridiculous and amazing room with the bizarre cowboy cutouts between the bedroom and the living room area. I liked the idea of a ghoul gunslinger with a girlfriend. And most of all, I enjoyed watching some honest to goodness happiness for one of our characters, particularly one who was ready to die last episode. 

Add in the reunion with Castiel and I really loved this. 

Well, to be fair, Castiel didn't do a great job of watching Jack (in utero) last time. 😋

Kidding, obviously. I agree that it was a strange choice that falls under "for plot reasons."

I noticed and really liked this detail.

I mean, I really like Cas but this definitely made me giggle.

 

Particularly when it comes to head trauma. 😂

I miss this. That is amazing.

All of this, and particularly the impact of seeing one of these guys happy. 

 

I feel like I really needed this episode. The one off episodes have remained really plot heavy and they haven't been as fun, so I appreciated something a bit lighter. Particularly on the heels of an old school ghost episode. 

I’m with you- everything you and SueB said. I LOVED this ep. I think it was my fave ep of season 13 (not that there are not some more enjoyable things coming).