S07.E25: What you Leave Behind

[John Potts]

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As the Dominion War comes to an end, Dukat goes to the Pah Wraiths to awaken them. Meanwhile the Dominion turn on the rebelling Cardassians, destroying them city by city.

You'd think that for would be Galactic Conquerors, the Founders would realise that the wrong time to turn on an ally is when you're being attacked and that diverting resources into a policy of extermination isn't going to help (I guess that was inspired by the Nazis continuing to put resources into running Death Camps when they were desperately needed on the Eastern Front). But this definitely suffers from the same fault as many Trek 2-Parters: the second part fails to deliver on the promise that was set up in the first part. I understand CGI battles aren't cheap, but at the end of Part 1 we get the "And now we're facing the final battle!"... and we see nothing of it. I did like that ultimately the conflict was resolved in a very Federation manner - not with blood and violence, but with forgiveness and War Crimes Tribunals (we even have Admiral Ross quoting General Douglas MacArthur). Of course, Weyoun just had to get one last snarky comment in - and Garak gets his revenge ("That works too" - Kira Nerys) by blasting the last of his line (never forget - and Weyoun should have known - that Garak was an assassin).

I couldn't put my finger on what it was that left me unsatisfied with the final showdown between Sisko and Dukat - OK it seems like a bit of a rushed afterthought, but I didn't think it necessarily needed to be an effects extravaganza. But watching SF Debris' review of this episode made me realise one of the weaknesses of it: it's the wrong confrontation - it's Kira that sees Dukat as her Nemesis (and Worf that has a personal beef with him), not Sisko, so I should be her facing him down at the end. Or even better, why not have all three together? What better way to contrast the two sides than have the Prophets/Sisko triumph because they encourage different people to stand together as opposed to the Pah-Wraiths/Dukat, who encourage their followers to poison each other.- the personal conflict reflecting the Galactic one, as it were.

As for the endings - a little self indulgent? Maybe, but I did like the fact that people aren't unchanged by their experiences, but are moving on with their lives. It's an annoying (but perhaps inevitable) TV trope that Status Quo is God, but that shouldn't extend to a Series' Finale (there ARE no contractual obligations to bring the actors back next week!), so it was refreshing to see half the characters leaving for pastures new. Nice to see that Bashir can get over losing his OTP (Miles!) to consider visiting the Holodeck with Ezri (just not at the Alamo!), while her parting with Worf was suitably understated. My favourite was actually Quark and Odo ("That man loves me - it's written all over his back!") because it summed up their "Frenemy" relationship perfectly. Oddly, my least favourite also concerned Odo: I felt that it should have been left in the air more how things ended with Kira - sure, he needs to cure The Great Link (and maybe track down the rest of the 100) but Kira could have said, "However long it takes, I'll be waiting" - which was, after all, what they did with Ben & Cassidy (at least, that's how I would have written it).

[readster]

The very final scene gets me with Jake and Kira looking at the worm hole gets me every time, but I am happy with how people moved on, there were endings and so forth. I do agree, I feel that there needed to be one last bit with Dukat with Worf and Kira. Things with Dukat were going on since before the series even began and he killed Jadzir, that was Worf's wife. He lost two makes to his enemies at least he got his justice with Duras back in season 4 of TNG. However, the end really did show what was wrong with the Dominion and why they failed. They didn't think things through. Even when the female changeling was dying she rather go down with everything done. Even if it meant not one trace left of the Dominion in the Alpha Quadrant and the entire Great Link but Odo and the 100 alive. If it wouldn't have been Odo offering to save their race and lead them. She wouldn't have stopped the war. 

[iMonrey]

Overall I found the ending unsatisfying. I don't know why the Federation would just accept the female changeling's surrender and then allow Odo to go and cure the rest of the link, like they trust her to speak for all changelings and that none of the others will ever pick up where she left off. 

Don't even get me started on the whole Vic Fontaine nonsense. The most absurd thing about that party scene is that aside from the main cast, the rest of the guests appeared to be holographic characters rather than other people on the station. Was this a private party for just Sisko and his friends? If so, where the heck was Keiko? Surely she'd want to be part of it. Jake was there and he didn't do jack squat for the war either. He had been conspicuously absent from most of this season, but I suppose they had to stick him into this one because of what they did with Sisko. But I guess they couldn't pony up the money to pay Rosalind Chao for one more episode. 

It was also bullcrap not to have any scenes with Jadzia in Worf's flashback moment - either they didn't want to pay Terry Ferrell or they didn't even want to engage with her to ask her permission (or maybe they did and she said no.) But the absence was glaring. 

I don't really get what they were trying to say about Sisko OR Odo. Both were leaving for . . . an indeterminate length of time. That really sort of dulled the emotional gut-punch of either of their departures. I think it would have been more impactful to have one or both rendered permanently gone. Sisko actually becoming one of the prophets would have been a natural progression. It sort of felt like they left everything open to an eventual film franchise (which was probably true). 

[blueray]

I remember in an interview that Avery Brooks didn't want it to end with Sisko leaving his pregnant wife. So they left that open on purpose so that maybe one day Sisko will return to them. Even though I'm not sure how that would work. As for Odo, they knew that they wanted him to leave someone in like season 6,  but they wanted him to have something to leave. So they finally got him and Kira together. I don't mind that either are left open for interpretation. The party scene if I remember correctly is all cast members, including guest stars even though they maybe out of their make up.

I feel like they defeated the Jamadar army at the end. But yeah, I wouldn't buy that the paper really means a lot to the dominion. That is something that could always come up again.

 

Anyhow, I love this episode. I feel like it really did sum up a lot of the story with giving good conclusions for plots and characters.  It probably is one of my favorite series finales ever. The only thing I don't like in this episode is that they didn't have Jedzia for Worf flashback. My guess is they didn't have the rights to her image and couldn't get it.

[legaleagle53]

5 hours ago, blueray said:

The only thing I don't like in this episode is that they didn't have Jadzia for Worf flashback. My guess is they didn't have the rights to her image and couldn't get it.

Actually, Terry Farrell later said she would gladly have given consent for them to use her image. I believe it was her reps who denied the request. 

[SVNBob]

13 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The most absurd thing about that party scene is that aside from the main cast, the rest of the guests appeared to be holographic characters rather than other people on the station.

9 hours ago, blueray said:

The party scene if I remember correctly is all cast members, including guest stars even though they maybe out of their make up.

There were a few of those: Jeff Combs, Casey Biggs, J.G. Hertzler, Dorn's stunt double, most of the regular Ferengi cast, etc.  But lots of others were portrayed by show crew members; Ron Moore, Rene Echevarria, Ira Steven Behr, and other writers and producers.  So it was less a "station" party and more a crew party...the last hurrah for all of them, as it were.

[John Potts]

13 hours ago, blueray said:

The only thing I don't like in this episode is that they didn't have Jedzia for Worf flashback.

Apparently, Terry Farrell an/or her agent had protested at the use of her (audio) clip in Field of Fire (7.13) without proper attribution. As a result, the Producers decided against using any Terry Farrell clips in the Finale (though Terry herself has said she would have had no objection).

[iMonrey]

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So it was less a "station" party and more a crew party...the last hurrah for all of them, as it were.

Except for Keiko. She was conspicuously absent.

[Ailianna]

On 9/7/2017 at 5:08 PM, blueray said:

I remember in an interview that Avery Brooks didn't want it to end with Sisko leaving his pregnant wife. So they left that open on purpose so that maybe one day Sisko will return to them.

Avery Brooks felt very strongly that they should not be perpetuating what he saw as a stereotype of black men leaving their families, and so he didn't want the show to be him just leaving his wife and soon-to-be-born baby in a single parent household without hope for a two parent family.  I'm not expressing this as well as he did, but it was more about how it might be compared to real world issues than it was something integral to the Star Trek universe or these specific characters.

[Maverick]

 The war was fairly well resolved but I wish we had learned the terms of the surrender and had some commentary from the Female Changeling on why she did so (guilt?  quid pro quo for the cure?  buying time for the future?)   It was also odd how the Breen magically disappeared when Kira and Garak stormed the command center and they apparently went along with the surrender without question.  I thought it was really strange that Garak isn't seen or mentioned after the Dominion surrenders until I found out H&I cut an entire scene with Bashir and Garak where the magnitude of destruction to Cardassia is mention and Garak says he's staying there.  That was kind of an important scene to cut.   I would have much preferred dropping one of the Bashir/Ezri scenes.  I had forgotten how much that nonsense was weaved into the final arc (and this was after spending the first half of the season with Bashir and Quark panting after her).  

 The resolution to the Dukat/Winn/Pah Wraith plot was far less satisfying.  So the key to destroying the Pah Wraiths was....throwing a book in the fire?  M'kay.  And the Prophets needed to engineer someones birth and ensure they followed a path all their life to do that?  Make sense.  Or not.  Maybe they should have just recruited O'Brien and Rom, who managed to kill the Pah Wraiths without killing Keiko.  

 I did like how they showed us where everyone ended up and what happened after the 'big' storylines were wrapped up.  Much more satisfying than Voyager's ending, which was "they're home, the end".   

[rmontro]

On 8/21/2017 at 7:21 AM, John Potts said:

I couldn't put my finger on what it was that left me unsatisfied with the final showdown between Sisko and Dukat

To be honest, at that point I was thinking that Dukat was dead, and that the Pah Wraiths were just using his body.  It wasn't until later that I realized that they had resurrected him and possessed him.  Similarly, for those who were saying Worf should have gotten revenge on him for killing Jadzia, I always got the impression that it was the Pah Wraith who had killed Jadzia and that Dukat was not in control at that point. 

Regarding Jadzia not being shown in Worf's "flashback" at the end, I wasn't really expecting it.  It was apparent they didn't want to spend the money to show her (or maybe they just had some grudge against her).  But she was still very noticeable in her absence.  It makes no sense for Ezri to be in his recollections but not Jadzia.

Speaking of the flashbacks, they were a little cheesy.  And I thought Miles and Julian showed more chemistry than Ezri and Julian.

On 9/7/2017 at 1:02 PM, iMonrey said:

Overall I found the ending unsatisfying. I don't know why the Federation would just accept the female changeling's surrender and then allow Odo to go and cure the rest of the link, like they trust her to speak for all changelings and that none of the others will ever pick up where she left off. 

That was left a little fuzzy.  My take was the female changeling wasn't going to surrender in exchange for Odo curing her, but when they linked, he showed her that he would cure their entire people, and he would go to serve as their leader, and show what he had learned among the solids.  Her transformation from villainous war monger to peacemaker was rather abrupt though.

I thought it was a little odd that Odo left it as "I'm going away forever".  I would have thought he would have said something like "Maybe we will meet again" or "Come visit me some time".  Also, you would think someone from the Founders would act as ambassadors to the Alpha Quadrant, who better than Odo?  Still, I guess it's better to make a clean break, this way Kira can move on with her life.

[readster]

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Regarding Jadzia not being shown in Worf's "flashback" at the end, I wasn't really expecting it.  It was apparent they didn't want to spend the money to show her (or maybe they just had some grudge against her).  But she was still very noticeable in her absence.  It makes no sense for Ezri to be in his recollections but not Jadzia.

I know it was a combination of things. Terry F.'s manager at the time told her not to pursue it and everyone from Rick Berman to Michael Pillar didn't want to rock the boat. So, they just went against it. Terry regretted it years later and Rick B even said they should have found a way around it.