John Potts July 19, 2017 Share July 19, 2017 Quote Everyone who knew Jadzia Dax reacts strongly to Ezri Dax's presence, particularly Worf. OK possibly unpopular Opinion, but I preferred Ezri to Jadzia - at least in how she was written. I mean, you have a race whose defining feature is that the can suddenly gain centuries of memories at a stroke - what must that be like? How disorienting must it be to suddenly have a whole bunch of inclinations/fears/preferences that you didn't have last week? I know these things would normally be dealt with by the Trill Symbiosis Commission, but even with training, it must be a weird experience. Also, good to see that her friends are not entirely sure how to react to her, because I don't care how mature/progressive humanity has become, everyone takes some time adjusting to new people, even when those new people are (sort of) the same as the old person. As for having a Counsellor on DS9 - I would have thought that the touchie-feelie Federation would insist on one being present on its Starbases as a matter of course (in fact, didn't Miles visit one in Hard Time?) so shouldn't it be a case of "What with the war on, there's a shortage of Counsellors, so we have to make do with just a trainee?" But I did like that both Garak and Sisko basically talk Ezri into overcoming her issues by berating her (OK, let's call it "Tough Love"), which was something you couldn't imagine (say) Deanna Troi ever doing. And as a Nitpicker, I couldn't help replying to Sisko's "7 Great Lifetimes" with "Yes, and 2 crappy ones!" I know everyone would rather forget Verad and Joran had the Dax symbiote (probably including a lot of viewers!) but they were hosts, however briefly - considering that Jadzia was newly joined at the start of the Series, Joran's term as Dax was similar in duration to Jadzia's. Continuity, people! Link to comment
readster July 19, 2017 Share July 19, 2017 Also enjoyed Ezri, but I was a Dax fan, however, I just loved Nicole as an actress. I remember her saying in an interviewed she was so shocked how much sci-fans knew who she was when she had only done a few series in syndication at that point, but she was like, really good at them. Since they had only one season, I loved the back story on Ezri, especially when we got to her family. I mean for 6 seasons and talk about Jadziar's family, we never saw them and they sounded like a normal family. Here with Ezri we got a large back story, use of the Orion Syndicate (24th century mob) and more. I do agree about the counseling situation, especially when the previous 2 seasons show just how much the war was getting to everyone. Link to comment
iMonrey August 14, 2017 Share August 14, 2017 I liked Nicole de Boer as well, but I have mixed feelings about Ezri. This is essentially a cleverly disguised re-cast and it sort of reminds me of Cheryl Ladd taking over for Farrah Fawcett on Charlie's Angels. The approach is the same: a new character that is basically a replacement for another but they make the new character "quirky/funny" and slightly less put-together and confident than the previous one. It's sort of a trick writers use to endear a character to an audience they know will be resistant to a change. I also have well documented issues with the inconsistent way the Trill are written as a species and what it means to be joined. Those troubles were exacerbated by the recast, especially as Benjamin continues to call Ezri "old man." I think this worked OK when she was Jadzia but the change to Ezri reiterates the question of who is Dax, exactly? The "old man" Benjamin knew was Curzon. I get that Benjamin still felt a kinship with Dax even after Curzon died but calling Ezri "old man" seems somehow disrespectful to Jadzia - as though she never existed or was just an empty vessel for the Dax symbiont. If they are truly a joined species, Benjamin cannot simply be friends with Dax itself - he was friends with Curzon Dax and Jadzia Dax. Those are two different people. He's treating all Daxes like they are just one entity. Link to comment
Maverick August 27, 2017 Share August 27, 2017 I never hated Ezri, but I remember thinking there was a bit of an "ate the show" element thank to the Afterimage/Prodigal Daughter/Field of Fire trilogy, but upon rewatching I realize Vic was a bigger show eater. I didn't really care for the ploy of making Ezri an unplanned/unprepared host and all that came with it (the quirky space sickness, everyone yelling at her to make her 'snap out of it'). Knowing that it was going to be the last season, I don't think they should have brought Dax back as a regular character. It would have made sense for Dax to show up and help Sisko dealing with Jadzia's death/going on the Orb journey but there was no reason to have her as part of the station crew. Link to comment
iMonrey August 28, 2017 Share August 28, 2017 It also contradicts an earlier stated practice that joined Trill are heavily discouraged from re-engaging with previous spouses, and sometimes even punished for it. They made a whole episode about that when Jadzia met one of her former wives. Yet here Ezri is interacting with Worf and being encouraged to work on the same space station with him. I also wonder how the Trill committee (or whoever controls these things) feels about the fact that Dax keeps running back to Sisko every time it gets a new host. It's not OK to slip back into former romantic relationships but it's perfectly fine to have the same bestie over and over again? 1 Link to comment
SVNBob August 29, 2017 Share August 29, 2017 13 hours ago, iMonrey said: I also wonder how the Trill committee (or whoever controls these things) feels about the fact that Dax keeps running back to Sisko every time it gets a new host. It's not OK to slip back into former romantic relationships but it's perfectly fine to have the same bestie over and over again? They probably bent the rules a little given the unique circumstances of Ezri becoming Dax's host. Since she was untrained, having some constant was probably reassuring and helped in the bonding process. And of course there's the coverup regarding Trill society as a whole from "Equilibrium". That whole thing gave Sisko a hell of a lot of bargaining chips (or blackmail) when it comes to his involvement with Dax hosts. 1 Link to comment
Ailianna August 30, 2017 Share August 30, 2017 I'm not sure if it had more to do with 2 symbionts reconnecting versus just a Trill with an un-joined person. This may be a fan-wank, but in my head that's part of the difference. And the fact that most non-Trill, especially non-joined Trill, DO care about the packaging their partners come in, so the change of bodies may keep most people from having the same relationship with consecutive hosts. Sisko may be unusual in that. Worf didn't find her to be the same person as Ezri, and didn't end up wanting to continue the relationship. Bashir never had a real romantic relationship with Jadzia--it was more about the thing he couldn't have than about actually having a relationship with her. Erzi ended up being quite different, and more like whom I who I would think he would end up with. Link to comment
VCRTracking September 26, 2017 Share September 26, 2017 (edited) On 8/14/2017 at 0:09 PM, iMonrey said: I liked Nicole de Boer as well, but I have mixed feelings about Ezri. This is essentially a cleverly disguised re-cast and it sort of reminds me of Cheryl Ladd taking over for Farrah Fawcett on Charlie's Angels. The approach is the same: a new character that is basically a replacement for another but they make the new character "quirky/funny" and slightly less put-together and confident than the previous one. It's sort of a trick writers use to endear a character to an audience they know will be resistant to a change. Well it worked for me because I like Ezri and I liked Cheryl Ladd on Charlie's Angels! I think I liked Ezri more because she had insecurities and was less confident. I know it was supposed to come off as wise and worldly due to her previous 8 lifetimes of experience but I found Jadzia Dax's constant bemusement annoying. When it's an actual old man it's cool(see Uncle Iroh on Avatar the Last Airbender) but from a young woman it seems smug. I don't blame Terry Ferrell, who I thought great in "Rejoined" and other episodes where she showed a vulnerable side. In the It's one of the reasons I'm glad Worf joined the show and they got together because her playfulness worked really well against his gruff personality. On 8/30/2017 at 4:49 AM, Ailianna said: Bashir never had a real romantic relationship with Jadzia--it was more about the thing he couldn't have than about actually having a relationship with her. Erzi ended up being quite different, and more like whom I who I would think he would end up with. Although "If Worf hadn't come along it would've been you." was absolutely the worst thing to tell Julian! Damn. Edited September 26, 2017 by VCRTracking Link to comment
blueray December 8, 2017 Share December 8, 2017 (edited) On 8/14/2017 at 3:09 PM, iMonrey said: I also have well documented issues with the inconsistent way the Trill are written as a species and what it means to be joined. Those troubles were exacerbated by the recast, especially as Benjamin continues to call Ezri "old man." I think this worked OK when she was Jadzia but the change to Ezri reiterates the question of who is Dax, exactly? The "old man" Benjamin knew was Curzon. I get that Benjamin still felt a kinship with Dax even after Curzon died but calling Ezri "old man" seems somehow disrespectful to Jadzia - as though she never existed or was just an empty vessel for the Dax symbiont. If they are truly a joined species, Benjamin cannot simply be friends with Dax itself - he was friends with Curzon Dax and Jadzia Dax. Those are two different people. He's treating all Daxes like they are just one entity. I didn't like that he called Ezri "old man" either. It never fit her character, where it somehow worked for Jadzia. Comparing the two (well three) Dax's they were like different people. Sisko says when Jadjza dies, that she said it'll be the same, but she was wrong. Curzon was his mentor but she was his friend. His relationship with Ezri is more like a captain and a crew member. They have a good working relationship, but she is not "his friend" in the way that Jadzia was and never would be (even if Ben stayed on DS9). My take on it is as time goes on the host's personality starts being the one that over shadows the memories. When we met Ezri she has no prier training and is trying to find herself again. Which she does by the end of the show. I agree that Trill spieces is ver inconsistent especially if you add in the TNG episode, where everything is completely different. The simbiot takes over completely, which would suck to be the host then. Edited December 8, 2017 by blueray 1 Link to comment
rmontro May 30, 2018 Share May 30, 2018 On 8/28/2017 at 1:11 PM, iMonrey said: It also contradicts an earlier stated practice that joined Trill are heavily discouraged from re-engaging with previous spouses, and sometimes even punished for it. There was no policy against talking to former spouses, they just weren't allowed to get romantically involved with them again. There was even a short reference to that policy in this episode when Sisko and Worf were talking. But the Council seemed to be pretty paranoid the way they were watching Jadzia and her former spouse in that previous episode. Terry Farrell said that she never wanted Jadzia to die, that she would have liked to have become a recurring character for season 7. It does seem like they would need her presence more routinely than that though. But her leaving opened up an opportunity to see a symbiote's new life, and as it turns out, I do like Ezri Dax. Terry Farrell was beautiful, but I was surprised to hear she was six feet tall. I tend to be attracted to shorter females, so I agree with Jake Sisko, Ezri is "cute" :) Given Garak's history, I was thinking he was lying to Ezri about being punished by being put in a closet by his parents. In fact, I still think he probably was. He sure ripped her a good one when she was initially unable to help him with his claustrophobia though. I guess you don't want to fail when you are in Starfleet! Link to comment
John Potts May 30, 2018 Author Share May 30, 2018 3 hours ago, rmontro said: Given Garak's history, I was thinking he was lying to Ezri about being punished by being put in a closet by his parents. In fact, I still think he probably was. He sure ripped her a good one when she was initially unable to help him with his claustrophobia though. I guess you don't want to fail when you are in Starfleet! I can't see Garak lying about his claustrophobia. While he's certainly capable(!) of spinning a lie like that, it also makes him look weak. His claustrophobia is clearly real because when he was trying to escape the Dominion prison in In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light he wouldn't fake a weakness when he knew lives were at stake (not least his own!). Link to comment
Maverick May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 Having seen Garak's father on the show, I completely believe he was locked in a closet as a kid. I was disappointed they brought Dax in as a regular. It made sense for Dax to show up in the premiere but that's all we really needed was to see what the new host was like. NuDax could have served on a ship that showed up at the station or went on missions with the Defiant once in a while but it was the final season; we didn't need an essentially new regular to try in flesh out in the middle of winding down a 7 year story. They could have introduced a new recurring science offer as a minor character and spared us all the Worf drama. Link to comment
rmontro May 31, 2018 Share May 31, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, John Potts said: I can't see Garak lying about his claustrophobia. While he's certainly capable(!) of spinning a lie like that, it also makes him look weak. His claustrophobia is clearly real because when he was trying to escape the Dominion prison in In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light he wouldn't fake a weakness when he knew lives were at stake (not least his own!). To be clear, I wasn't saying Garak was lying about his claustrophobia - as you point out, we've seen it before. I was saying he was lying about being locked in a closet as a kid. The reason I found that suspicious is that it was such an obvious answer for the cause of his claustrophobia. I could see him feeding her that just to mess with her, and we know he's a practiced liar. Edited May 31, 2018 by rmontro Link to comment
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