Guest July 18, 2017 Share July 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, Bastet said: Seven Four That second one was tough, deciding whether to go with season three or four; I like the average episode of season three more than the average episode of season four, and probably a good deal more, but season three has the steaming pile of offensive shit that is Isaac & Ishmael and the stupid Simon Donovan storyline, so that's a big knock against it. Oh hi. Are you my twin? Because we voted the same way and had the same thought process go into it. If yes, are you the evil twin or the good one? I could be either, tbh. Link to comment
Guest July 19, 2017 Share July 19, 2017 Seasons 4 and 7 are gone! Vote against 1! Season 1 Season 2 Season 3 Link to comment
Guest July 20, 2017 Share July 20, 2017 Season 3 is gone! Vote for a winner between 1 and 2! Link to comment
Guest July 20, 2017 Share July 20, 2017 Much as a I love Season 1, it's got to be Season 2 for me. Link to comment
Zola July 20, 2017 Share July 20, 2017 Season 2 If Season 1 turns out to be the winner here, I will watch every second of every minute of every episode of Season 5 back2back once a month until Jan 2018! <twitches nervously!> Link to comment
betsyboo July 21, 2017 Share July 21, 2017 don't hate me, but I can get past Mandy for the joy and wonderment of Season 1. Link to comment
Guest July 21, 2017 Share July 21, 2017 Season 2 is the winner! @Only Zola is spared from watching Season 5 on repeat. :) We will now do episodes from each season until we have a "top 3" for each season that will then face off. Vote against three! 1. Pilot 2. Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc 3. A Proportional Response 4. Five Votes Down 5. The Crackpots and These Women 6. Mr. Willis of Ohio 7. The State Dinner 8. Enemies 9. The Short List 10. In Excelsis Deo 11. Lord John Marbury 12. He Shall, from Time to Time 13. Take out the Trash Day 14. Take This Sabbath Day 15. Celestial Navigation 16. 20 Hours in LA 17. The White House Pro Am 18. Six Meetings Before Lunch 19. Let Bartlet Be Bartlet 20. Mandatory Minimums 21. Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics 22. What Kind of Day Has It Been Link to comment
Zola July 21, 2017 Share July 21, 2017 (thank you everyone for not making Season 1 the winner. I was starting to shake a little at the thought of watching "Access" without clicking the FF button. lol) 5, 14, 16 Link to comment
Zola July 21, 2017 Share July 21, 2017 A great scene in episode 2 Quote BARTLET C.J., on your tombstone, it’s gonna read, “Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.” C.J. Okay, but none of my visitors are going to be able to understand my tombstone. BARTLET Twenty-seven lawyers in the room, anybody know “post hoc, ergo propter hoc?” Josh? JOSH Uh, uh, post, after, after hoc, ergo, therefore, after hoc, therefore, something else hoc. BARTLET Thank you. Next? JOSH Uh, if I’d gotten more credit on the 443. BARTLET Leo? LEO After it, therefore because of it. ...but for every upside there's always a downside - in this case the arrival of Mandy in her Beemer :( Link to comment
Melancholy July 21, 2017 Share July 21, 2017 That's a funny scene and I liked the Dr. Morris scenes but Post Hoc... really suffers from OTT scenes. Definitely the Mandy scenes (and it's a pretty Mandy heavy ep). But also Sam striding into Laurie's "date" with her clients to have a big confrontational scene and announce that he's going to save her, the entire senior staff minus Josh excitedly voting for Mandy when she sucks, this bizarre Leo/Hoynes confrontation where Hoynes talks like a moron who doesn't get political formalities ("I've had up to here with you and your pal") and Leo defends CJ to Hoynes with, "She's a good girl." Despite the "Post Hoc" scene and the "I drink from the keg of glory" scene and the Dr. Morris scene, it's one of my least favorite eps and I think my least fave Aaron Sorkin ep of this series. Link to comment
Bastet July 21, 2017 Share July 21, 2017 This game is hard for me, because as much as I love this show, I don't watch it anywhere near as obsessively as I do The X-Files, so I don't always know by looking at a title what all happened in that episode. So, from what does jump to mind: - Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc (because of that horrible scene when Sam ignores everything Laurie says and just declares that he's going to be her friend and the show expects me to find it cute, and because of Leo calling C.J. a "good girl" to the Vice President) - 20 Hours in L.A. (just kind of weak overall) - The Crackpots and These Women (much to love, but oh my gods, I hate the "these women" part of it with the heat of a nova) Link to comment
Zola July 21, 2017 Share July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Bastet said: This game is hard for me, because as much as I love this show, I don't watch it anywhere near as obsessively as I do The X-Files, so I don't always know by looking at a title what all happened in that episode. So, from what does jump to mind: - Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc (because of that horrible scene when Sam ignores everything Laurie says and just declares that he's going to be her friend and the show expects me to find it cute, and because of Leo calling C.J. a "good girl" to the Vice President) - 20 Hours in L.A. (just kind of weak overall) - The Crackpots and These Women (much to love, but oh my gods, I hate the "these women" part of it with the heat of a nova) My exact reason for disliking that episode! Made me feel like some "optional extra" grrrrr!! Link to comment
Guest July 23, 2017 Share July 23, 2017 Goodbye, "Post Hoc" "Crackpots," and "20 Hours in LA." Vote against three! 1. Pilot 3. A Proportional Response 4. Five Votes Down 6. Mr. Willis of Ohio 7. The State Dinner 8. Enemies 9. The Short List 10. In Excelsis Deo 11. Lord John Marbury 12. He Shall, from Time to Time 13. Take out the Trash Day 14. Take This Sabbath Day 15. Celestial Navigation 17. The White House Pro Am 18. Six Meetings Before Lunch 19. Let Bartlet Be Bartlet 20. Mandatory Minimums 21. Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics 22. What Kind of Day Has It Been Link to comment
Melancholy July 23, 2017 Share July 23, 2017 (edited) I really love this show. Once we eliminated Post Hoc... and 20 Hours in LA, all of the remaining eps have a lot going for them. Even though I care for S1 less than the average WW fan. Pilot: Some classic moments but a bunch that I don't care for. Sam's prostitute story. The unrealistic gag that Sam would be so distant from Leo that he wouldn't know Leo's daughter was the teacher, instead of the second grader. This set up as Mandy as pivotal love interest/rival for Josh that ended up as a lead balloon. Six Meetings Before Lunch: I think the Jackal is awkward. The Zoey/drug dealer plot is too much exposition of boring and irrelevant stuff to serve up a decent but short "CJ's growth arc in S1" scene. Zoey is generally annoying in this episode- including grabbing Charlie to forcibly kiss him to overcome his PDA issues even though she's making him uncomfortable at his work where he's trying to be professional. The Josh reparations plot and the Sam/Mallory/Leo school vouchers plot are solid. The Toby/Mandy panda stuff is actually really funny and generally Toby is a riot in this episode. But it's not enough to make up for the fact that the A-plot was weak. Mr. Willis of Ohio: The "CJ doesn't get the basics of the census" plot is so offensive and stupid that it drags down the entire episode for me. Zoey and Mallory trying to finagle a double-date out of a staffer outing feels oppressively fanfic-y. The "Charlie saves Zoey from the bar creeps" is riddled with OTT bad acting- and the point is somewhat defeated that the Secret Service rescued Zoey. Charlie just walked over with good intentions and really only yelled at the assholes when they were already being handcuffed. Toby's plot with Mr. Willis was solid and I liked the poker games and especially Jed foreshadowing the end of S4 to Zoey. But it's not enough to save the ep. Edited July 23, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Bastet July 23, 2017 Share July 23, 2017 My picks are the same as @Melancholy's, and for largely the same reasons: Pilot (great as pilots go, but still plagued with some of the inherent issues that make pilots weaker than many of the episodes to come) Mr. Willis of Ohio (there's a lot I love, but the C.J. doesn't understand the census thing is infuriating, and I don't find the bar scene anywhere near as great as Josh does) Six Meetings Before Lunch (too much Zoey for me, since I don't think much of Moss's acting) Link to comment
Zola July 23, 2017 Share July 23, 2017 (edited) Another one that shares the exact same episodes for eviction as @Melancholy, and for exactly the same reasons, but also... The Pilot, being a pilot felt a little unsettling for a number of small reasons; the wishy-washy music to the opening credits; Leo's entry into the West Wing and how there's 3 police officers at the entrance along with a security pass machine, all of which were dumped from episode 2 (along with everyone's ID cards hanging round their necks). The very opening shot of Sam chatting to a reporter and instantaneously hooking up with Laurie across the bar - just like that! (plus the inevitable bedroom scene so that we can see how manly Sam is and his 6 pack chest, which got me thinking this is going to be a silly "this is all about Rob Lowe" show). Then there's the introductory scene of CJ on the treadmill, but then falling on her arse because she can't multitask a text message - which gives the impression that CJ is some kind of incapable woman; Then there's a bit of exposition between Josh and Donna with regards "Donnatella Moss, when did you start working for me?" as if he didn't already know. And then there's Mandy, that really sank the entire episode like a lead balloon inside another lead balloon filled with 100 other lead balloons. Six Meetings.... Zoey. She irritated me back then, and she remained consistent with that throughout the entire show! And the idea of her grabbing Charlie and forcibly kissing him in the corridors of the West Wing, would be seen as sexual harassment these days, perhaps even assault! But of course because it's the president's daughter it's okay! Mr Willis .... CJ not understanding the Census. I mean really!!?? Edited July 23, 2017 by Only Zola Link to comment
Moose135 July 23, 2017 Share July 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Only Zola said: which got me thinking this is going to be a silly "this is all about Rob Lowe" show Don't feel bad, Rob Lowe thought the same thing. Link to comment
Guest July 24, 2017 Share July 24, 2017 Goodbye, Pilot, Six Meetings, and Mr. Willis! Vote against three! 3. A Proportional Response 4. Five Votes Down 7. The State Dinner 8. Enemies 9. The Short List 10. In Excelsis Deo 11. Lord John Marbury 12. He Shall, from Time to Time 13. Take out the Trash Day 14. Take This Sabbath Day 15. Celestial Navigation 17. The White House Pro Am 19. Let Bartlet Be Bartlet 20. Mandatory Minimums 21. Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics 22. What Kind of Day Has It Been Link to comment
Melancholy July 24, 2017 Share July 24, 2017 Take This Sabbath Day: I may be alone in voting this so early. It's definitely artistic. But I think the death penalty A-plot is just so slow as it's basically a chorus of characters lining up to say how they (mostly spiritually and religiously) disagree with the death penalty. There's no debates. There's no twists or turns. It's just an expected, foregone conclusion occurring with a lot of pretty speeches advocating against the death penalty. The Joey B-plot is far better. But then, that's part of the problem. There's really only two plots to this ep- the death penalty and Josh v. Joey Lucas aka Josh/Joey Lucas (maybe). LOL. Usually TWW eps have like 4 plots. It's a strength of the show- there's wall to wall dialogue and plot so it remains interesting on rewatch. This episode loses that when it tries to go artsy and winds up with just 2 plots. Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics: It's a perfectly pleasant little episode- but it loses compared to heavier hitters. The A-plot is what Jed's poll numbers of the month are- the stakes aren't very high. There's an effort to make them more meaningful by tying it into CJ's growth arc but I think it's clumsy that, on the face, it's just about whether CJ made an (educated) guess on the right *number* compared to the guys. Lip service is paid that CJ designed the media strategy of the last few weeks so she could own the numbers- but it's just lip service when there's no exposition on the media strategy. I also think it's oddly placed. There's a great mini-arc of the Bartlet administration getting braver and more aggressively shaping domestic policy from Let Bartlet Be Bartlet-Mandatory Minimums-What Kind of Day Has It Been. However, Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics awkwardly hangs like a gym sock on a shower rod in that group of eps because it's not really part of that arc. Enemies: See, it's a good ep. But some moments are hard to take. I'm all for casting Jed as the bigger stealth asshole in his relationship with Hoynes. But as much as Enemies helps me make that case, I'm not quite sure that Jed would be so graceless to upbraid Hoynes in front of his entire Cabinet for a standard politico "Our first goal has to be to work with Congress" introduction. And when faced with the possibility of Danny writing that story and the American public seeing an ugly side of him, maintain his self-righteous "YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE MADE ME BEG, JOHN. I WAS ASKING YOU TO BE VICE PRESIDENT" to defend how he treats Hoynes. I feel like Jed's assholism towards Hoynes is easier to take and more realistic when Bartlet is trying to achieve something politically necessary or desirable- Hoynes's backing on ethanol legislation, Hoynes to go back to Texas to speak for gun control, Hoynes to be his VP while also making him complicit in the MS secret. Link to comment
Bastet July 24, 2017 Share July 24, 2017 Enemies - Jed being a pompous ass to Hoynes when it's not called for, Danny being a pain in the ass, and the Sam/Mallory thing I'm already tired of Take This Sabbath Day - too much church, not enough state The White House Pro Am - the Zoey/Charlie stuff drags it down a bit Link to comment
Guest July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 Goodbye, Enemies, Take This Sabbath Day, and Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics. Let's Drop to Voting Against Two. 3. A Proportional Response 4. Five Votes Down 7. The State Dinner 9. The Short List 10. In Excelsis Deo 11. Lord John Marbury 12. He Shall, from Time to Time 13. Take out the Trash Day 15. Celestial Navigation 17. The White House Pro Am 19. Let Bartlet Be Bartlet 20. Mandatory Minimums 22. What Kind of Day Has It Been Link to comment
Bastet July 25, 2017 Share July 25, 2017 I'm having to be nit-picky to eliminate episodes at this point, just choosing episodes I love that contain things I don't like: The White House Pro Am - the Zoey/Charlie stuff that I never enjoy even when I want to because of the acting, and mansplaining to C.J. about Jed's signals Lord John Marbury - the guys excluding C.J. (if they hadn't, we wouldn't have gotten Toby's apology, which is a wonderful moment between them, but still - screw you, guys), the start of Zoey/Charlie, and Mandy being annoying about her other potential client Link to comment
Guest July 26, 2017 Share July 26, 2017 Proportional Response and Five Votes Down are both gone. Keep voting against two! 7. The State Dinner 9. The Short List 10. In Excelsis Deo 11. Lord John Marbury 12. He Shall, from Time to Time 13. Take out the Trash Day 15. Celestial Navigation 17. The White House Pro Am 19. Let Bartlet Be Bartlet 20. Mandatory Minimums 22. What Kind of Day Has It Been Link to comment
Guest July 26, 2017 Share July 26, 2017 I already know which three I want to advance to the next round. Really, I have four, but I've managed to narrow it down to three. 11 - Lord John Marbury. I don't hate this episode. It's just one of the weaker ones to me. 12- He Shall from Time to Time Link to comment
Melancholy July 26, 2017 Share July 26, 2017 (edited) Oh man, they're all so good! I'm eliminating eps now that had a crappy D-plot. It didn't take up much screen time but as we advance, smaller blemishes are cause for elimination. Lord John Marbury: Mandy walking around annoying everyone about representing a Republican. The White House Pro Am- The Charlie/Zoey stuff. Basically what @Bastet did last round. Edited July 26, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Bastet July 26, 2017 Share July 26, 2017 Same as before: The White House Pro Am Lord John Marbury Link to comment
Guest July 27, 2017 Share July 27, 2017 Goodbye, Lord John Marbury and White House Pro Am! Keep voting against two! 7. The State Dinner 9. The Short List 10. In Excelsis Deo 12. He Shall, from Time to Time 13. Take out the Trash Day 15. Celestial Navigation 19. Let Bartlet Be Bartlet 20. Mandatory Minimums 22. What Kind of Day Link to comment
Guest July 27, 2017 Share July 27, 2017 He Shall, From Time to Time Mandatory Minimums Link to comment
Melancholy July 27, 2017 Share July 27, 2017 He Shall From Time to Time: Mallory skipping a number of steps to publicly grab Sam and make out with him at the White House because she liked his State of the Union section really feels like Sorkin wish fulfillment. I actually think the CJ/Danny first kiss is cute but CJ's whole "I'm gonna get over you by kissing you" is a tired cliche. The Short List: I don't know if it's just me because Edward James Olmos is beloved but I don't care for him in TWW or the first 2 seasons of Battlestar Gallactica (the only 2 I saw). He was good in his Oscar nominated role where he taught poor kids math. It's a small scene but after all of this well written buildup about how Mendoza was an amazing guy with quite the fan base of liberals, Edward James Olmos plays Mendoza very dull. It's a let down. Link to comment
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