Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[whateverdgaf]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

Brienne's not going to break her oath, she may ask to be released from it, but she's not going to break it.

Brienne herself rejected the lady motif, that's on her, those were her decisions. 

The bit about no loyalty to Brienne is BS, Sansa saved her twice, in the inn and removing her from LF's playbook.

Where were you in S4 and 5 when NOBLE Brienne was all pity and poor me as she totally berated and ridiculed Podrick?

Brienne argues  a request, and Sansa frames  it as a order and doesn't want to be treated as a child and you go ballistic?

Sansa one scene with Brienne as snark, Brienne with Pod um 10 scenes and she the best thing since bread.

 

Brienne's attitude towards oaths and loyalty has been changing, if she decides that serving Sansa is no longer the best thing to do it would be in line with her character development to come to a place where she decides to break it of her own volition. Brienne has been nothing but furniture around Sansa and only gets to do things of import away from her, so naturally I want Sansa away form her. 

Brienne rejected being called a lady out of self loathing, and last season was seen accepting Podrick calling her  lady after having previously insisted on not being so. Never mind that going back to Tarth or leaving Sansa's service does not require her becoming a lady in the traditional sense. 

Sansa did not save Brienne at the inn. Brienne saved Brienne at the inn by fighting off the soldiers that were sent to kill her. Sansa sent Brienne from Winterfell because she had no use for her.

I was there in season 4 when Brienne apologised towards Pod for being overly harsh and began training him to be a knight, respecting his dreams and helping him achieve his ambitions through dedicating time and effort towards him. Brienne shows herself willing to make sacrifices and do things for Pod amongst scenes of snark that steadily grows friendly, returning his loyalty with tutelage and thus making their relationship one where both parties benefit. 

Sansa is rude and dismissive of Brienne in one scene, amidst scenes of Brienne being devoted to Sansa's wellbeing and risking her neck for her, all the while having the choice to return home and live in comfort or otherwise find something else to do with her time, and Sansa doing nothing for Brienne in return. Have we seen Sansa ever show concern for Brienne? Affection? Friendship or even the slightest bit of gratitude. Has she once shown Brienne that she is willing to make sacrifices for her, that she considered Brienne as something of value? No. In one scene Sansa is rude towards Brienne, but it is the only scene where Sansa treats Brienne with something other than cold indifference. I go ballistic at Sansa for 'not wanting to be treated like a child' because in doing so she snubs and belittles the woman to whom Sansa owes her very life, whereas I don't go ballistic at Brienne for being snarky towards Pod because it is counter balanced with scenes where Brienne bonds with Podrick, makes apologies for any wrongdoing on her part and puts in effort to help Podrick learn to fight, thus helping him grow closer to becoming a knight and advancing in Westeros, and in simply defending himself. Sansa's treatment of Brienne would not be so unbearable if there had been other moments that showed Sansa returning any of Brienne's kindness or friendship, as there are with Brienne and Podrick. There are not. 

So yes, I would be unhappy if Brienne ends the season still serving Sansa because she does deserve better than work for someone who has never shown any loyalty or even gratitude for her. If Sansa cares about Brienne, felt concern for her happiness or wellbeing, they could have included a scene in which Sansa expressed these feelings. They did not. They did include a scene of Sansa being rude, ungrateful and dismissive. Now I hope Seaosn 8 will include a scene with Brienne recognising her own self worth and breaking free of an oath that has left her unappreciated and superfluous. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by whateverdgaf

[OhOkayWhat]

6 hours ago, nikma said:

And it may not happen. Maybe Tyrion's betrayal is written in a way that makes sense. But nothing from these leaks goes against D&D's MO, in my opinion. 

Only if "they deserved it" (speaking about people of KL) goes like this:

Tyrion: They deserved it, they deserved a chance to live!

By the way, I am not saying that Friki is lying or even his sources; but I think that something is terribly missing without the proper context, like my example above.

Edited September 16, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[Leila6]

12 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Why wouldn't it be fair with them there? 

If they’re the reigning monarchs (or soon to be so), it could be argued that nobody would want to return a verdict against what they perceive to be the king and queen’s wishes. Their presence could give away their wishes, based on how they reacted to things.

[shireenbamfatheon]

12 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

Off the top of my head:

 

• They want the trial to be as fair (or at least appear as fair) as possible, so they stay away to avoid their presence swaying the verdict.
• It’s too emotionally painful, and they are not needed to give evidence.
• Dany is giving birth.
• Jon and/or Dany are recovering from a serious injury and cannot attend.
• Something is going on with the dragons that only they can take care of.
• As part of their new system of governance, they’ve decided to set up a separate legal branch of the government, of which the crown takes no part.

I’m not saying it definitely is one of these options, but there are plenty of possibilities that preclude concluding Jon and Dany must be dead.

That's not how trials in Westeros work.

Dany's closer to Jorah than she is to Tyrion and she didn't send Barristan to deal with him when she discovered his betrayal. Jon personally executed Olly for his treason. They're not going to stay away because they're emotionally compromised or they can't provide proof (Tyrion's guilt doesn't seem to in question); they're the King and Queen if they survive, and Davos isn't Hand of the King according to the leaks. 

Narratively, their absence makes no sense. Tyrion's betrayal is more personal to Dany due to the nature of their relationship than anyone else, but she's not present because it's too hard on her? Instead, characters like Brienne or Sam who've never even met him are present? Having the birth take place at the exact same moment as the trial also makes no sense. It's fiction, they can have her give birth whenever they want; instead Jon and Dany will just be chilling all the way in Dragonstone while everyone else is gathered in the pit during one of the most emotional and important scenes in the show, and the sendoff for one of the main protagonists?

I think they're goners if the leaks are true. Very little seems to indicate otherwise. 

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Bottom line: I think /BoatsexBaby knows these leaks are bullshit but is politely playing along, even to the point of suggesting possible identities for the actors supposedly present in the scene.

 

I don't think BoatsexBaby is in anyway a more valid leaker than Friki. I don't think we can use BoatsexBaby to discredit Friki because we don't know if what BoatsexBaby says is right. They could both be wrong about what was filmed in the dragonpit. Or one of them is right.

As for the leaks, Jon/Dany/Tyrion dead? Sansa is endgame queen of Westeros?  Fuck me!

Why is SweetRobin randomly present at the trial? Could he be King of Westeros as Sansa's new husband?!

Harry Strickland is there? Hmm.

Did not Joe Dempsie say he filmed his last scenes in Seville?

So Tyrion resents the people of KL? Fair enough. That aligns with book Tyrion. Then why the hell was he not encouraging Dany to go burn down KL with her dragons as she wanted to do?

Jon and Arya's reunion sucks?  They probably wave at each other from across the room for a second because now they are too different or something. And then D&D write some scenes with Arya and the Hound telling chicken jokes.

Edited September 16, 2018 by anamika

[Leila6]

4 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

That's not how trials in Westeros work.

Dany's closer to Jorah than she is to Tyrion and she didn't send Barristan to deal with him when she discovered his betrayal. Jon personally executed Olly for his treason.

Neither of those were trials. The trials we actually witnessed were Tyrion and Loras (perhaps more, I can’t remember), and there were evidence and witnesses and a quasi-jury.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Leila6
Miswrote “Lancel” instead of “Loras”

[Eyes High]

2 minutes ago, anamika said:

Did not Joe Dempsie say he filmed his last scenes in Seville?

He did. Friki done fucked up.

[shireenbamfatheon]

6 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

Neither of those were trials. The trials we actually witnessed were Tyrion and Lancel (perhaps more, I can’t remember), and there was evidence and witnesses and a quasi-jury.

Lysa vs. Tyrion, Lannisters vs. Tyrion, Jon and Sansa vs. Ned and Alys, Dany vs. Mossador, Sansa and Arya vs. LF, BwB vs. Sandor etc. Only the nobility (or people who need to be made examples of) seem to be given such trials, and most of these people know each other because they need to associate with each other. For Jon and Dany to stay away now because they know the man standing trial makes no sense given what we've seen throughout the series. And according to Friki, the discovery of Tyrion's betrayal takes place in a scene where Jon and Dany are present, which means there's no doubt as to the status of his innocence. They know he's guilty; it's just pure formality to give him a trial. Him being a main character probably plays into it as well since they can't just Littlefinger him.

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

I  think they're goners if the leaks are true. Very little seems to indicate otherwise. 

I don't think this is very conclusive considering Friki says that Davos is in charge and the soldiers present are Unsullied/Golden Company. Unsullied/Greyworm are loyal only to Dany. If she's gone, so are they. Golden Company in the books have Targaryen loyalty. The same could be true here.  So if the Unsullied are around and is the army in charge then Dany at the least is still around.

[GrailKing]

33 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

Brienne's attitude towards oaths and loyalty has been changing, if she decides that serving Sansa is no longer the best thing to do it would be in line wither character development to come to a place where she decides to break it of her own volition. Brienne has been nothing but furniture around Sansa only gets to do things of import away from her, so naturally I want Sansa away form her. 

Brienne rejected being called a lady out of self loathing, and last season was seen accepting Podrick cling her  lady after having previously insisted on not being so. Never mind that going back to Tarth or leaving Sansa's service does not require her becoming a lady in the traditional sense. 

Sansa did not save Brienne at the inn. Brienne saved Brienne at the inn by fighting off the soldiers that were sent to kill her. Sansa sent Brienne form Winterfell because she had no use for her.

I was there in season 4 when Brienne apologised towards Pod for being overly harsh and began training him to be a knight, respecting his dreams and helping him achieve his ambitions through dedicating time and effort towards him. Brienne shows herself willing to make sacrifices and do things for Pod amongst scenes of snark that steadily grows friendly, returning his loyalty with tutelage and thus making their relationship one where both parties benefit. 

Sansa is rude and dismissive of Brienne in one scene, amidst scenes of Brienne being devoted to Sansa's wellbeing and risking her neck for her, all the while having the choice to return home and live in comfort or otherwise find something else to do with her time, and Sansa doing nothing for Brienne in return. Have we seen Sansa ever show concern for Brienne? Affection? Friendship or even the slightest bit of gratitude. Has she once shown Brienne that she is willing to make sacrifices for her, that she considered Brienne as something of value? No. In one scene Sansa is rude towards Brienne, but it is the only scene where Sansa treats Brienne with something other than cold indifference. I go ballistic at Sansa for 'not wanting to be treated like a child' because in doing so she snubs and belittles the woman to whom Sansa owes her very life, whereas I don't go ballistic at Brienne for being snarky towards Pod because it is counter balanced with scenes where Brienne bonds with Podrick, makes apologies for any wrongdoing on her part and puts in effort to help Podrick learn to fight, thus helping him grow closer to becoming a knight and advancing in Westeros, and in simply defending himself. Sansa's treatment of Brienne would not be so unbearable if there had been other moments that showed Sansa returning any of Brienne's kindness or friendship, as there are with Brienne and Podrick. There are not. 

So yes, I would be unhappy if Brienne ends the season still serving Sansa because she does deserve better than work for someone who has never shown any loyalty or even gratitude for her. If Sansa cares about Brienne, felt concern for her happiness or wellbeing, they could have included a scene in which Sansa expressed these feelings. They did not. They did include a scene of Sansa being rude, ungrateful and dismissive. Now they need to include  scene with Brienne recognising her own self worth and break free of an oath that has left her unappreciated and superfluous. 

Go ahead, argue this, when this episode aired, I stated on westeros.org that Sansa was saving Brienne, I even stated she's telling her to get out of Dodge. GO LOOK IT UP!

3 days after the episode aired GC gave an interview and guess what ! I was right.

You're reply ^^^^^ shows you have no understanding of what was shown. in that scene or in season 7, especially 7-4 when Arya mentioned vows and they shoot directly to Sansa giving daggers to LF, she knew he use her, the letter to go to KL was a good reason to send Brienne away without alerting LF.

Gwendoline Christie: Sansa turned Brienne down to keep Brienne safe
by Ani Bundel3 years agoFollow @anibundel

One of the highlights of this past Sunday’s episode was seeing two separate plots crash headlong into each other, as Brienne of Tarth (Gwendoline Christie) and Podrick Payne accidentally stumbled across Sansa Stark after looking for her for the better part of last season. We’ve had characters meet up before at the Inn at the Crossroads, but never quite so explosively.  By the time the encounter is over, Brienne has taken out several of Littlefinger’s entourage in a fight scene that was reportedly a nightmare to film. And although Littlefinger and Sansa ride away, Brienne sees where they’re headed and decides to follow.

But why does she follow? As Pod points out, both Stark girls have refused her protection. Technically, she’s free of the oath she made to Catelyn Stark back in Season 2, and yet she decides she needs to follow Sansa to wherever Littlefigner is taking her. Why?

As Christie explains to EW in an interview, it’s in part due to something we can’t see in this moment:

“Brienne kneels before Sansa in an exact mimic of the oath she made to Catelyn Stark,” Christie says. “And Sansa says, ‘No.’ But in the script, it says there’s the tiniest look in Sansa’s eyes. The script says the look is telling Brienne: ‘Get the f–k out of Dodge.’”

Has Sansa learned enough from Littlefinger that’s she’s started to plot her own course? After all, as Littlefinger notes, she has become “an observant young lady.” Christie certainly thinks so, and suggests that Sansa’s rejection of Brienne’s offer of help was intended to keep Brienne safe from Littlefinger.

“We can be romantic about it and say that, in that moment, maybe there’s a connection, some part Catelyn that’s within Sansa, that’s trying to help me, to urge me on,” Christie says.

This certainly jives with what episode director Michael Slovis said to The Hollywood Reporter when asked about that scene. “Everybody had an agenda in that. You had to make it clear what each person’s cause celebre was. Nobody is really saying what they mean in that scene.”

Littlefinger’s goons did try to run Brienne down pretty shortly after this scene, although you could argue that Brienne brought that on herself by making such a hasty, violent exit. In any case, it seems unlikely that Brienne would have lasted long in Littlefinger’s company. He clearly didn’t want her there, so a warning from Sansa to beat it was probably well-founded.

Is Brienne reading Sansa right? Has Sansa learned enough to know that trusting Littlefinger will put her head at risk, just like it once did her father? Was Brienne right to follow Sansa, even after the verbal rejection?

Have a nice evening.

Edited September 16, 2018 by GrailKing

[shireenbamfatheon]

1 minute ago, anamika said:

I don't think this is very conclusive considering Friki says that Davos is in charge and the soldiers present are Unsullied/Golden Company. Unsullied/Greyworm are loyal only to Dany. If she's gone, so are they. Golden Company in the books have Targaryen loyalty. The same could be true here.  So if the Unsullied are around and is the army in charge then Dany at the least is still around.

Yeah, but he also stresses that Davos isn't Hand of the King during this scene, which he should have been made if he's going to preside over the trial.
Grey Worm and the Unsullied could also just be around because he betrayed someone they cared about and who possibly got her killed. They might want to witness the trial before possibly leaving Westeros or something. Grey Worm is the only one besides Sansa who has any type of relationship with Tyrion of the people present.

You're right it's not conclusive, but the melting snow indicates the war is over, and the only thing that could possibly explain the absence of pretty much anyone Team Dany is the birth of her child, but it makes zero sense to have that occur at the same time as the trial. Imo they're both dust if friki isn't just being deceived and the leaks are true. Frickin Sweetrobin and two new characters are more essential to the scene than Jon and Dany?

[Wouter]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

Or she is just fake which is far more likely.

As was claimed here before, BSB's leaks and Friki's leak are contradicting the other one in several respects, especially after Friki's recent video. I never considered her a trusted source.

But Friki's version is also a big leap, as he didn't used to do such mega spoilers so much in advance. He is now explicitly claiming that HBO is going very far to mislead the spies (bringing in tons of actors and extras without any intention to film), which in turn means that the idea that HBO could attempt to fabricate a leak for Friki's benefit isn't that far fetched anymore.

The Joe Dempsie thing is interesting, either the actor lied or Friki is wrong. But it's not exactly proof against Friki, as actors have lied before to protect secrets of the show.

Jon's and Dany's absence from the trial (and the execution?) is still remarkable. Dany giving birth could be a possible excuse, but I suppose the trial could always be postponed if that is the problem.

[Leila6]

9 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

For Jon and Dany to stay away now because they know the man standing trial makes no sense given what we've seen throughout the series

That’s not what I said at all. I said because they are the monarchs, not because they know each other. The power relationship is the concern.

 

13 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

They know he's guilty; it's just pure formality to give him a trial.

Which would be a reason not to give the trial any hint of unfairness, so it goes off without a hitch and can’t be questioned later.

[shireenbamfatheon]

I hope "Jon and Arya meet but both have changed" doesn't mean more Stark drama or broodiness. 

[GraceK]

You know, these still are just “ leaks”. There’s no proof yet, so we should just have fun speculating and not rip each other’s heads off or get too worked up. 

Its nice to have something to at least discuss after such a dry desert ?, but I for one am still gonna take it all with a grain of salt.

[shireenbamfatheon]

9 minutes ago, Leila6 said:

That’s not what I said at all. I said because they are the monarchs, not because they know each other. The power relationship is the concern.

 

Which would be a reason not to give the trial any hint of unfairness, so it goes off without a hitch and can’t be questioned later.

Jon was a monarch when he preceded over Ned and Alys, and the same with Dany and Mossador and Cersei and Tyrion in a sense. Hell, Cersei chose the Mountain as her champion and no one raised an eye. It's never been an issue in the show before. Ned wanted Tywin to stand trial and he was super compromised, but that's how Westeros operates.

Jon and Dany discover Tyrion's betrayal in a completely different scene, so they already know he's guilty. Besides, Bran can see everything and Tyrion loses it at the trial so it's not much of a surprise to anyone. Again, narratively it makes no sense to have them absent during one of the biggest moments of the series because of impartiality or whatever. A birth scene or their deaths seem to be the only logical explanations, but like Wouter said, they can hold the trial whenever they want. There's no expiration date. But this is just what I think, and obviously people are entitled to other interpretations.

I'm still hoping these leaks aren't true because it doesn't fit with what we've seen so far. Unfortunately, that hasn't been an indicator of anything for years now.

ETA: Just read this part: 

Quote

Tyrion will fall to his knees under the weight of his actions. Can't ask for a trial by combat this time around.

So whatever he does must have massive consequences. But he's also angry and spiteful. I wonder if he inadvertently gets Jaime killed.

Edited September 16, 2018 by shireenbamfatheon

[anamika]

19 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Yeah, but he also stresses that Davos isn't Hand of the King during this scene, which he should have been made if he's going to preside over the trial.
Grey Worm and the Unsullied could also just be around because he betrayed someone they cared about and who possibly got her killed. They might want to witness the trial before possibly leaving Westeros or something. Grey Worm is the only one besides Sansa who has any type of relationship with Tyrion of the people present.

Davos has never had a Hand of the King pin when he was serving the One True King or Jon and I can see that still continuing. I don't see the smuggler suddenly getting official insignia to do his job. 

Should not the Starks or Queen Sansa be presiding over this trial if Tyrion's betrayal got Jon killed? Where are their official soldiers? The only soldiers there are those with possible Targaryen loyalty?

As for the Unsullied sticking around only for Tyrion's trial... Maybe, but if Missandei is missing, then that means she's dead as well.

There's also the fact that Friki says that there was no green screen in the dragonpit, Tyrion possibly dies by dragonfire, Tyrion is executed elsewhere because his execution scene was not filmed in Seville. So who will execute Tyrion?

Edited September 16, 2018 by anamika

[WindyNights]

4 minutes ago, anamika said:

Davos has never had a Hand of the King pin when he was serving the One True King or Jon and I can see that still continuing. I don't see the smuggler suddenly getting official insignia to do his job. 

Should not the Starks or Queen Sansa be presiding over this trial if Tyrion's betrayal got Jon killed?

As for the Unsullied sticking around only for Tyrion's trial... Maybe, but if Missandei is missing, then that means she's dead as well.

The Unsullied could very well be sticking around because Daenerys is dead but her baby is alive as well.

[anamika]

56 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

The Unsullied could very well be sticking around because Daenerys is dead but her baby is alive as well.

Possibly. It could very well be that we get a Jon-Arya scene mimicking Ned-Lyanna with Jon entrusting the kid to Arya if both Jon/Dany die.

I could see a book scenario where Arya brings up Jon/Dany's boatbaby similar to Ned bringing up Lyanna/Rhaegar's son. Arya would be the regent in KL. Bran/Rickon in Winterfell and Sansa in the Vale with SR. And apparently according to Friki, Bran and Sam are besties now. Poor Jonno - no more bromance with Sam. It could be possible that we are going to be seeing not only the old Arya but the old Bran back again next season. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by anamika

[shireenbamfatheon]

7 minutes ago, anamika said:

Davos has never had a Hand of the King pin when he was serving the One True King or Jon and I can see that still continuing. I don't see the smuggler suddenly getting official insignia to do his job. 

Should not the Starks or Queen Sansa be presiding over this trial if Tyrion's betrayal got Jon killed? Where are their official soldiers? The only soldiers there are those with possible Targaryen loyalty?

As for the Unsullied sticking around only for Tyrion's trial... Maybe, but if Missandei is missing, then that means she's dead as well.

There's also the fact that Friki says that there was no green screen in the dragonpit, Tyrion possibly dies by dragonfire, Tyrion is executed elsewhere because his execution scene was not filmed in Seville. So who will execute Tyrion?

Maybe he's the head of the jury for the sake of impartiality ?

Clearly he's done something major for all the Starks and other important highborn to be present to begin with.  According to the leaks, he "falls to his knees due to the weight of his actions" and doesn't even bother asking for a trial by combat, so he succeeded in some way and his actions have a devastating impact in the show. 

I think they didn't film his death scene for fear of spoiler pics.

[GrailKing]

36 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

So whatever he does must have massive consequences. But he's also angry and spiteful. I wonder if he inadvertently gets Jaime killed.

First time I heard this one, we hear he gets Sansa killed, but instead it's Jaime. Maybe when the GC comes Jaime is blamed for the betrayal at WF.

Add Jaime's baby, Jon innocently usurping Tyrion's position , feeling Sansa left him holding the bag or maybe she refutes advances, Arya's hatred for the Lannisters

[bubble sparkly]

So it seems some on Freefolk are seriously questioning the Friki leaks as apparently Tryion's "I never bet against my family" was a book-only line.  However, Friki's leaks have Bran saying this line as a supposed callback to a Tyrion/Cat conversation from s1 that never actually happened on the show. Hmm.

[GrailKing]

38 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

So it seems some on Freefolk are seriously questioning the Friki leaks as apparently Tryion's "I never bet against my family" was a book-only line.  However, Friki's leaks have Bran saying this line as a supposed callback to a Tyrion/Cat conversation from s1 that never actually happened on the show. Hmm.

I thought he said it, but not to Cat, it was later in the series I thought.

Also the person doing the GN, said he had to keep those lines in for continuity reasons.

OK, closest I found was in WF, Jaime states sometimes he wonders who's side Tyrion's on, and Tyrion replied My dear brother you wound me, you know how much I love my family.

???

Edited September 16, 2018 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Only if "they deserved it" (speaking about poeple of KL) goes like this:

Tyrion: They deserved it, they deserved a chance to live!

By the way, I am not saying that Friki is lying or even his sources; but I think that something is terribly missing without the proper context, like my example above.

I just saw someone say maybe the betrayal, is Tyrion closes the gates of KL, all those people die and his reply could be: they deserved it, because he saved them and they turned on him.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

So it seems some on Freefolk are seriously questioning the Friki leaks as apparently Tryion's "I never bet against my family" was a book-only line.  However, Friki's leaks have Bran saying this line as a supposed callback to a Tyrion/Cat conversation from s1 that never actually happened on the show. Hmm.

He’s lying and/or his source is.

Let’s be honest. If the leaks hadn’t come via Friki and had just been posted on Freefolk, no one would have believed them for a second, apart from the Tyrion haters. Giving them the Friki seal of approval is just laundering dogshit.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

He’s lying and/or his source is.

Let’s be honest. If the leaks hadn’t come via Friki and had just been posted on Freefolk, no one would have believed them for a second, apart from the Tyrion haters. Giving them the Friki seal of approval is just laundering dogshit.

Well 6-7 months to go. 

It livens up the fan base.

[Eyes High]

5 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Well 6-7 months to go. 

It livens up the fan base.

It certainly makes things more interesting!

Friki’s going to look like an idiot if he’s wrong, though, assuming that he is wrong and not lying through his teeth.

And everyone was so eager to throw Tyrion under the bus because it meant that their faves would live that they fell for it hook, line and sinker. Pathetic.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

Just now, Eyes High said:

It certainly makes things more interesting!

Yes in deed. : )

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Yes in deed. : )

Well, I’m certainly much more interested in what is actually going to take place in the Dragonpit.

[GrailKing]

12 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Well, I’m certainly much more interested in what is actually going to take place in the Dragonpit.

Me too, I'm glad I was right on Lord Arryn making it, at least to the final episode, if it's the same in book, then all his thriving and some what knowing what's going on with HTH tells me Sansa is protecting him somehow.

Now I need to know what the shit storm will be in the Vale.

Edited September 16, 2018 by GrailKing

[whateverdgaf]

4 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Go ahead, argue this, when this episode aired, I stated on westeros.org that Sansa was saving Brienne, I even stated she's telling her to get out of Dodge. GO LOOK IT UP!

3 days after the episode aired GC gave an interview and guess what ! I was right.

You're reply ^^^^^ shows you have no understanding of what was shown. in that scene or in season 7, especially 7-4 when Arya mentioned vows and they shoot directly to Sansa giving daggers to LF, she knew he use her, the letter to go to KL was a good reason to send Brienne away without alerting LF.

Gwendoline Christie: Sansa turned Brienne down to keep Brienne safe
by Ani Bundel3 years agoFollow @anibundel

One of the highlights of this past Sunday’s episode was seeing two separate plots crash headlong into each other, as Brienne of Tarth (Gwendoline Christie) and Podrick Payne accidentally stumbled across Sansa Stark after looking for her for the better part of last season. We’ve had characters meet up before at the Inn at the Crossroads, but never quite so explosively.  By the time the encounter is over, Brienne has taken out several of Littlefinger’s entourage in a fight scene that was reportedly a nightmare to film. And although Littlefinger and Sansa ride away, Brienne sees where they’re headed and decides to follow.

But why does she follow? As Pod points out, both Stark girls have refused her protection. Technically, she’s free of the oath she made to Catelyn Stark back in Season 2, and yet she decides she needs to follow Sansa to wherever Littlefigner is taking her. Why?

As Christie explains to EW in an interview, it’s in part due to something we can’t see in this moment:

“Brienne kneels before Sansa in an exact mimic of the oath she made to Catelyn Stark,” Christie says. “And Sansa says, ‘No.’ But in the script, it says there’s the tiniest look in Sansa’s eyes. The script says the look is telling Brienne: ‘Get the f–k out of Dodge.’”

Has Sansa learned enough from Littlefinger that’s she’s started to plot her own course? After all, as Littlefinger notes, she has become “an observant young lady.” Christie certainly thinks so, and suggests that Sansa’s rejection of Brienne’s offer of help was intended to keep Brienne safe from Littlefinger.

“We can be romantic about it and say that, in that moment, maybe there’s a connection, some part Catelyn that’s within Sansa, that’s trying to help me, to urge me on,” Christie says.

This certainly jives with what episode director Michael Slovis said to The Hollywood Reporter when asked about that scene. “Everybody had an agenda in that. You had to make it clear what each person’s cause celebre was. Nobody is really saying what they mean in that scene.”

Littlefinger’s goons did try to run Brienne down pretty shortly after this scene, although you could argue that Brienne brought that on herself by making such a hasty, violent exit. In any case, it seems unlikely that Brienne would have lasted long in Littlefinger’s company. He clearly didn’t want her there, so a warning from Sansa to beat it was probably well-founded.

Is Brienne reading Sansa right? Has Sansa learned enough to know that trusting Littlefinger will put her head at risk, just like it once did her father? Was Brienne right to follow Sansa, even after the verbal rejection?

Have a nice evening.

 

Sansa's warning to Brienne, her sole act of kindness towards her, is so feeble and amounted to nothing as Brienne only ended up in danger anyway (Wasn't her hasty and violent exist caused by Sansa's dismissal?) So what aide does Sansa actually bring at this point, even if she meant to? And this one act does not constitute a continuously supportive relationship. 

Your stance and reasoning on Sansa sending Brienne away is flimsy (she looks daggers at LF?) and I wonder at how Sansa could believe that Brienne is more at threat at Winterfell than she is at King's Landing, where she is at Cersei's mercy. That Sansa lies to and deceives Brienne after all she has done is an insult in itself. That Sansa didn't try to treat Brienne with respect in that scene, but was curt from the start and only grew in coldness, and there was nothing to counterbalance it, with no suggestion in previous interactions that this is not a genuine look at Sansa's opinion of Brienne, means that I have no reason nor the audience to believe that this is not a fair look at this relationship. The problem is the writers have not bothered providing anything that indicates that Sansa is motivated by care for Brienne, because in all there other interactions Sansa is cold around Brienne and there is not an indication of affection or friendship. 

My main reason for wanting Brienne to get out of Sansa's service is simple. Narrative and character wise, her remaining provides nothing. Brienne fulfils no important function for Sansa as she is now simply one of many people guarding her. Emotionally there is little cause to be invested in their relationship succeeding because Brienne is the only person putting effort into their relationship and the writers did not see any need to include scenes which showed that Sansa significantly cared for Brienne openly and Brienne benefited from this (there are scenes in which Sansa expressed her love for others, why not Brienne? Because Sansa does not hold any for Brienne.) As a character I want to see Brienne progress to a point where she takes her own initiative and decides to break her oath herself, thus showing that her view towards and oaths and loyalty which has steadily been changing have progressed from her first appearance. She could start by asking Sansa to release her, but it will truly be Brienne's decision and she will leave Sansa's service with or without her permission. 

TLDR Little reason to be emotionally invested in Brienne and Sansa's relationship, no sufficient evidence of mutual friendship and trust, and narratively it contributes nothing. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by whateverdgaf

[SimoneS]

There are so many things in Friki's leaks that don't make sense to me, but if I accept them as accurate, then I have to conclude that Jon and Dany must be dead and there is no Targaryen baby. After all, no way is Dany going to hugely pregnant when she is spending most of the season on a dragon fighting the NK and Viserion, etc.  The trial is at Dragonpit because King's Landing and the Red Keep is destroyed so there is nowhere else to hold it after the NK is defeated and the winter ends. Also, Robert Arryn is likely the new ruler sitting on the Iron Throne. I can't see who else it could be of those in attendance according Friki. Maybe Robin is betrothed to Sansa or Sam's sister even.  

Edited September 16, 2018 by SimoneS

[OhOkayWhat]

4 hours ago, GraceK said:

You know, these still are just “ leaks”. There’s no proof yet, so we should just have fun speculating and not rip each other’s heads off or get too worked up. 

Its nice to have something to at least discuss after such a dry desert ?, but I for one am still gonna take it all with a grain of salt.

Agree. Also, love the lil cactus.

[WindyNights]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

There are so many things in Friki's leaks that don't make sense to me, but if I accept them as accurate, then I have to conclude that Jon and Dany must be dead and there is no Targaryen baby. After all, no way is Dany going to hugely pregnant when she is spending most of the season on a dragon fighting the NK and Viserion, etc.  The trial is at Dragonpit because King's Landing and the Red Keep is destroyed so there is nowhere else to hold it after the NK is defeated and the winter ends. Also, Robert Arryn is likely the new ruler sitting on the Iron Throne. I can't see who else it could be of those in attendance according Friki. Maybe Robin is betrothed to Sansa or Sam's sister even.  

 

Well there was a weirdly suspicious large bump in betting for King Bran to the point where betting had to stop.

So if we were to take Friki's leaks at face value in conjunction with what I just said then there's a good chance that we're getting Bran and the Stark sisters ruling over Westeros like a Stark version of Aegon and his two sisters sans incest. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by WindyNights

[nikma]

20 days ago Friki reported an extra told him Unsullied and Lannister soldiers fought in the Dragon Pit scene. Now there's no action and no mention of Lannister soldiers.

Faye Marsay was seen with braids that they do before putting on the wig, so she did film in Dragonpit.

Joe Dempsie said he filmed his last scenes in Seville.

Tyrion never used "I bet on my own family" line in the show.

So Friki is wrong. 

[bubble sparkly]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

He’s lying and/or his source is.

Let’s be honest. If the leaks hadn’t come via Friki and had just been posted on Freefolk, no one would have believed them for a second, apart from the Tyrion haters. Giving them the Friki seal of approval is just laundering dogshit.

Yes Friki is/was definitely getting an automatic pass from a lot of people because of his previous spoiler history.  Although clearly his past dubbing source cannot be giving him these spoilers.  So if some brand new source just randomly contacted Friki claiming to have the goods, I do wonder how exactly Friki vetted this information.

I think it would be strange for Friki to purposely lie to fandom because he would be trashing his good reputation for no reason.  Unless Friki's dubbing source was discovered (surely the number of people who have early access to GOT episodes to do Spanish dubbing is not huge?), so he knows he's not going to get his usual spoilers for s8 and wants to go out in a blaze of glory or something lol.

I think Friki's first spoiler drop where he just said that Tyrion commits some sort of betrayal and there is a reveal/trial was believable.  A lot of people were speculating that Tyrion would do something in s8, although I would say popular consensus was an inadvertent betrayal caused by wanting to save Cersei's kid or something rather than a moustache twirling act of villainy.

However, these latest spoilers just seem a bit off.  Jon and Dany aren't at the trial but there is no explanation for their absence.  If the source is legit then I can't see why they wouldn't know whether J/D are dead or elsewhere, so why aren't they providing any info about two of the biggest characters? Last week Friki seemed to be suggesting his theory was that Tyrion dies and Jon/Dany rule.  Again, why did he think this if his source has not said one word about J/D, except that they aren't at the DP?

Also, Friki's explanation that Tyrion's motive is to keep his family in power does not seem to make a lick of sense.  Considering Cersei hates Tyrion and wants him dead, I cannot see any reason why he would decide to try and keep her on the throne.  A betrayal to save Jaime or the Lannister foetus I could buy, but to keep Cersei on the throne? Nope.  Especially when we know Cersei is going to go back on her word to fight the WW, and send an army to try and take out WF while the AOTD is marching.  Pacifist Tyrion of s7 who was tearing up over the death of the useless Tarlys would not be on board with all this carnage.

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Maybe Robin is betrothed to Sansa or Sam's sister even.  

Ever since we heard that the Robyn actor filmed for s8 I have been wondering whether he might end up with Sansa.  Her arc in the books is so tied to the Vale that her ending up as LotV would not be a huge shock. Practically speaking show-wise, Robyn is one of the few age appropriate marriage candidates left  Her only other options currently (apart from some random, nameless lord's son that we haven't met yet) are probably Gendry and Pod.  Obviously there are Tyrion and the Hound etc. too if she were to marry someone older, but the pool of similar age dudes is slim.

Robyn is a major lord and has had a puberty glow up, so assuming his personality has improved since his crazy mother died, he might not be a bad option.

[nikma]

13 minutes ago, nikma said:

Joe Dempsie said he filmed his last scenes in Seville.

I heard this here, but is this true? 

[nikma]

For some reason I trust KaySen since she was the only one to support Lads2. She trusted Friki last week, but its claer she now thinks that he is wrong. 

[anamika]

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Let’s be honest. If the leaks hadn’t come via Friki and had just been posted on Freefolk, no one would have believed them for a second, apart from the Tyrion haters. Giving them the Friki seal of approval is just laundering dogshit.

And everyone was so eager to throw Tyrion under the bus because it meant that their faves would live that they fell for it hook, line and sinker. Pathetic.

I would not be throwing around words like 'Pathetic' just yet.  Are you 100% sure that Tyrion is not going to betray Dany/Jon?

And this idea that only the 'Tyrion haters' are expecting a Tyrion betrayal - let's ignore the people speculating/predicting based on the writing that GRRM has laid down in the books, the OG outline, GRRM's statement on Tyrion,  Tyrion falling for Dany and feeling jealous on the show etc. and assume that people only expect this for the character because they hate him.

That's pretty much the standard excuse people come up with when there are any leaks about Sansa dying - accusations of people believing this because they are haters.  Apparently, the only acceptable and allowed ending for the show is Jon/Dany dying. Anything else will only be believed by haters. Let's go all in on Emilia's 'it fucked me up' interview and ignore Dinklage's 'there's jealousy wrapped up in there' one.

4 hours ago, nikma said:

I heard this here, but is this true? 

Yes, I think Joe Dempsie mentioned this in an interview on one of the Cons. We discussed it on this thread, but you have to go back and find it.  Now whether he was telling the truth is another thing. I don't see why he should lie though.

4 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Ever since we heard that the Robyn actor filmed for s8 I have been wondering whether he might end up with Sansa.  Her arc in the books is so tied to the Vale that her ending up as LotV would not be a huge shock. Practically speaking show-wise, Robyn is one of the few age appropriate marriage candidates left  Her only other options currently (apart from some random, nameless lord's son that we haven't met yet) are probably Gendry and Pod.  Obviously there are Tyrion and the Hound etc. too if she were to marry someone older, but the pool of similar age dudes is slim.

Robyn is a major lord and has had a puberty glow up, so assuming his personality has improved since his crazy mother died, he might not be a bad option.

Yep. The only reason I can see for SweetRobin sharing scenes with Sansa in the final episode is because Sansa's story has reconnected to the Vale and Yohn Royce is not enough anymore. In the books, she may marry Harry the Heir after SweetRobin is poisoned. Or she may finally realize that murdering her cousin in cahoots with LF is wrong (Like she realized that murdering Arya in cahoots with LF is wrong on the show) and plot LF's downfall saving SR. 

I see three possible endings for Sansa in the books: Lady of the Vale, Lady Clegane after she marries her true love or she dies taking down LF. If the show is keeping with the book endings, we may get one of these. If the show is doing it's own thing, then they may install her in WF seeing as how they have split KITN into Lady of WF/KITN (even though that makes no sense), killed off Rickon and taken away from Arya/Bran to give to Sansa.

Tyrion/Sansa has never made any sense to me. Mainly because Tyrion will be busy falling for Dany. Once Sansa gets agency at the end of the books and the good guys are in power, the first thing she will most probably do is get an annulment. Or Tyrion dies - saving her the trouble! We will have to wait and see if there is any SanSan scenes next season.

I am hoping that we see Bran revert back to normal next season. Be more like Max von Sydow's 3ER. I am sure him and Sam will make a good team.

4 hours ago, nikma said:

For some reason I trust KaySen since she was the only one to support Lads2. She trusted Friki last week, but its claer she now thinks that he is wrong. 

The problem with all these guys - Kaysen, Boatsexbaby, Claytoy, Enty etc. is their tendency to play coy. Oh, we know something, but we are not telling and will just give vague hints etc. If BoatsexBaby is so sure of her source/info, why not just come out and say that Friki is wrong? No one is willing to do that because they don't know! They are all only as reliable as their source.

I think people believed/believe Friki because he has given credible leaks before episodes aired before indicating that he has contacts within HBO/Game of Thrones production etc. And he seemed so sure of these leaks.

Edited September 16, 2018 by anamika

[SimoneS]

I keep seeing people saying that "you don't believe Friki because you don't want to," but for me to believe leaks they have to ring true and make sense with the storytelling we seen on the screen. When Lads' leaked last season, I though the wight hunt and the Sansa/Arya's conflict were ridiculous, but the rest made sense, Viserion dying, the wall coming down, Cersei's pregnancy. And as we followed the filming we could see that there consistency with Lads' leaks so it soon became pretty obvious that he was an insider or knew an insider and had seen the early scripts.

 In the case of Friki, a lot of what he is saying doesn't seem consistent with what we already know about the filming or the story last season. Also, why doesn't he know why Tyrion betrays Jon and Day and to whom? It is possible that his leak doesn't know or has incomplete info, but this would seem to be basic info the source would know. After all, the dialogue at the trial would give it away; "Tyrion Lannister, you are accused of..." Last, but not least, I am always skeptical when leakers or the show claims that it wastefully spent money to deceive the fans in the filming. This show is the most expense on tv,  costing millions to produce, there is no way HBO or D&D is wasting any money on a fake out.

I have been thinking the photo that HBO leaked where Jon appears to be on his knees in front of Cersei at King's Landing. We speculated about the circumstances at the time, maybe it gives away more clues than we realize. Maybe Cersei captured him because he was betrayed?

 

4 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Ever since we heard that the Robyn actor filmed for s8 I have been wondering whether he might end up with Sansa.  Her arc in the books is so tied to the Vale that her ending up as LotV would not be a huge shock. Practically speaking show-wise, Robyn is one of the few age appropriate marriage candidates left  Her only other options currently (apart from some random, nameless lord's son that we haven't met yet) are probably Gendry and Pod.  Obviously there are Tyrion and the Hound etc. too if she were to marry someone older, but the pool of similar age dudes is slim.

Robyn is a major lord and has had a puberty glow up, so assuming his personality has improved since his crazy mother died, he might not be a bad option.

The possibility of Robyn being engaged to Sansa popped in my head as I reflected the purpose of the characters in that scene. Whether Friki is right or wrong about Tyrion, Robyn and Sansa marrying rings true.

Edited September 16, 2018 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, bubble sparkly said:

Ever since we heard that the Robyn actor filmed for s8 I have been wondering whether he might end up with Sansa. 

Quote

Yep. The only reason I can see for SweetRobin sharing scenes with Sansa in the final episode is because Sansa's story has reconnected to the Vale and Yohn Royce is not enough anymore. In the books, she may marry Harry the Heir after SweetRobin is poisoned. Or she may finally realize that murdering her cousin in cahoots with LF is wrong (Like she realized that murdering Arya in cahoots with LF is wrong on the show) and plot LF's downfall saving SR. 

I see three possible endings for Sansa in the books: Lady of the Vale, Lady Clegane after she marries her true love or she dies taking down LF. If the show is keeping with the book endings, we may get one of these. If the show is doing it's own thing, then they may install her in WF seeing as how they have split KITN into Lady of WF/KITN (even though that makes no sense), killed off Rickon and taken away from Arya/Bran to give to Sansa.

 

39 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The possibility of Robyn being engaged to Sansa popped in my head as I reflected the purpose of the characters in that scene. Whether Friki is right or wrong about Tyrion, Robyn and Sansa marrying rings true.

It really says something about the deep, deep, deep level of denial over the likelihood of Sansa and Tyrion ending up together that the information that Peter, Sophie and Lino filmed together for 8x06 must mean that Sansa and Robin are ending up together. (Ditto for claims that Joe Dempsie filming in Seville must mean that Gendry and Sansa are ending up together, because I've seen that, too.) Come on, people. 

Also, Lino only filmed for one day in Seville while Peter and Sophie filmed for all four. But, you know, whatever, Sansa+Robin4eva!!!

The last time this was discussed in the thread, it was pointed out that TV Robin has remained a laughably gullible, goofy and stupid character who is pretty much used as a one-note joke. If he's Sansa's endgame, the writers obviously haven't been informed. If they had planned any whiff of romance with Robin, they would have recast Robin with a more experienced, hotter actor, just as they recast Myrcella in Season 5 with a more experienced, more beautiful actress. (It says something for how funny Lino Facioli is in the role, though, that the writers kept him on since Season 1 even while they jettisoned Tommen and Myrcella's actors. Lino has been a great Robin.)

And while we're talking about Sansa/Tyrion, Hannah Murray said in May that she was a fan of Sansa/Tyrion (as well as Jaime/Brienne), which if there was the faintest whiff of villainy or betrayal on Tyrion's part towards the Starks would be a very peculiar thing to say, and would also be a very peculiar thing to say if Sansa hooks up with Sandor or Tyrion spends S8 pining for Dany.

3 hours ago, anamika said:

I would not be throwing around words like 'Pathetic' just yet.  Are you 100% sure that Tyrion is not going to betray Dany/Jon?

I am 100% sure that a lot of people jumped on the idea because they hate Tyrion and can't wait for him to die and took advantage of the "leaks" to unload a bunch of invective about how nasty and horrible Tyrion is, and that those same people are now looking mighty stupid.

Quote

If BoatsexBaby is so sure of her source/info, why not just come out and say that Friki is wrong?

They already said why: because it's too much fun watching the meltdowns.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

I wouldn't be peremptory about plot points that have not been confirmed by anything.

No one knows exactly when this trial scene happens in episode 6 (if it happens) no one knows the context, no one knows what led to it, or where characters not mentioned as present could be doing because we have NO.IDEA. about how things will play out, NO.IDEA. about anything in between two big moments, WF battle and KL battle, and we know ZILCH about all the other storylines or about the end game in itself. When looking only at hard facts, we know nothing about what, 80% of the season?

Maybe there is some truth to Frikidoctor's info. His source could feed him both true and fake facts. Or he could himself pepper facts with fakes. He could be sincere, if not he can always say he was conned by HBO and imo, there would be enough people to believe him.

I don't think it's impossible for Tyrion to betray, although as I said it would be more of a lesser evil of bitter for me. What I don't find believable are his motivations as they were reported in the last batch of leaks. Is it because some pieces are missing, is it because it's second hand info so it's distorted a bit, is it bad writing by D&D, or is it because everything is false? I don't know yet. What I think is BS, on the other hand, is every  extrapolation or theory presented as fact or as certainty, based on an combination of info that could be fake and total absence of info.

I don't believe either any of the "leaks" pertaining to the other storylines, if only because some seem to contradict filming info.

One source for Joe Dempsie having wrapped filming:

Quote

"Dempsie, who plays Gendry on the series, said that he shot his final scene last week."

It corresponds to the filming in Seville, that happened around May 20th, and he was in Spain days before (insta pictures, linked in this thread) so not filming in Belfast or elsewhere. IIRC, there was no sighting of him on or near GoT sets after Seville. He had no reason to lie: 1) Dates of filming are one of the details actors share the most easily, unlike plot details. 2) He isn't the only actor of S8 who revealed he wrapped up (Maisie, for one) or whose wrapping up was reported. 3) He filmed for 8 months so it didn't give anything away -unlike it would have, if he filmed only for a short time.

Unless, of course, HBO told months in advance to an actor playing a secondary character to lie about a rather mundane detail, in order to discredit Friki's future source that they saw in their crystal ball. Like Hercule Poirot would say, if you need to bend the facts to fit a theory, it's the theory you have to change.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[bubble sparkly]

57 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

It really says something about the deep, deep, deep level of denial over the likelihood of Sansa and Tyrion ending up together that the information that Peter, Sophie and Lino filmed together for 8x06 must mean that Sansa and Robin are ending up together. (Ditto for claims that Joe Dempsie filming in Seville must mean that Gendry and Sansa are ending up together, because I've seen that, too.) Come on, people. 

I agree that Sansa and Tyrion had a fair bit of romantic undercurrent to their scenes in past seasons when they were married.  In a way it was kind of the GoT version of the fake dating rom com trope, although we never got the usual conclusion where the fake dating leads to real feelings.  However, the fact that they seem to be going in on having Tyrion in love with Dany makes me question a Sansa/Tyrion endgame.  I believe PD gave a recent interview where he talked about the J/D/T triangle, and after s7 he said a few times that Tyrion was in love with Dany.

Tyrion having feelings for Dany wouldn't prevent a Sansa/Tyrion marriage if it was for political purposes. But if D&D wanted to have a Sansa/Tyrion endgame where they had mutual feelings, I just question why they would feel the need to have Tyrion fall for Dany.  Especially when he only has a few episodes next season to fall out of love with Dany and into love with Sansa.  Of course, Jon and Dany fell in love in a few episodes last season so I suppose it's not impossible for Tyrion's feelings to change quickly.  It just seems kind of pointless to have him take a detour in Dany love if his endgame is Sansa, especially when there's no tension/question as to who Dany would "choose" in the triangle.

[bubble sparkly]

Guys, if we believe boatsexbaby has legit info then Emilia (and Kit’s) lack of filming in Seville means nothing. Unless something has changed, BSB claims that there is a dragon battle raging when the Starks et al are in the DP, and Dany and Jon both survive along with their kiddo.

Personally I hope BSB’s info is correct because it means a happy ending for my faves, but I think the past week has taught us that we can’t be sure of any leaks!

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

I agree that Sansa and Tyrion had a fair bit of romantic undercurrent to their scenes in past seasons when they were married.  In a way it was kind of the GoT version of the fake dating rom com trope, although we never got the usual conclusion where the fake dating leads to real feelings.  However, the fact that they seem to be going in on having Tyrion in love with Dany makes me question a Sansa/Tyrion endgame.  I believe PD gave a recent interview where he talked about the J/D/T triangle, and after s7 he said a few times that Tyrion was in love with Dany.

Tyrion having feelings for Dany wouldn't prevent a Sansa/Tyrion marriage if it was for political purposes. But if D&D wanted to have a Sansa/Tyrion endgame where they had mutual feelings, I just question why they would feel the need to have Tyrion fall for Dany.  Especially when he only has a few episodes next season to fall out of love with Dany and into love with Sansa.  Of course, Jon and Dany fell in love in a few episodes last season so I suppose it's not impossible for Tyrion's feelings to change quickly.  It just seems kind of pointless to have him take a detour in Dany love if his endgame is Sansa, especially when there's no tension/question as to who Dany would "choose" in the triangle.

In the books, it was all awkwardness and angst, but yes, the show’s take on their dynamic had a distinct romcom flavour. The dueling scenes in 3x07 where the characters vent to their sympathetic BFFs about their relationship was Romcom 101. (Jon and Tyrion’s 7x03 scene where Tyrion asks about Sansa and then awkwardly backpedals had more than a whiff of romcom, too.) And 4x02, the last episode where Tyrion and Sansa would see each other for the better part of four seasons, was incredibly shippy.

There’s definitely a point to TV Tyrion having feelings for Dany. Otherwise, why bother? I think the mistake is in assuming that this necessarily rules out Tyrion/Sansa (or necessarily leads to a Tyrion betrayal). It could be the post-S6 cast/crew Jon vs. Sansa hype all over again. I also noticed Peter Dinklage qualifying his statement “He loves Dany, or he thinks he does” (or words to that effect). Maybe that belief will be tested in S8.

Also, as I said, it would be weird for Hannah Murray to say she’s a fan of Tyrion/Sansa if Tyrion is hung up on Dany and Sansa is indifferent towards Tyrion (or even hostile and suspicious). Virtually nobody ships Jorah/Missandei or Brienne/Bronn. That she mentioned it in the same breath as Jaime/Brienne suggests to me that there’s some sort of “there” there in S8, regardless of endgame. They may just end up as BFFs who drink wine together and bitch about everyone, but there has to be some sort of connection there. 

Lastly, it’s fine to believe that Tyrion and Sansa won’t end up together—it’s a super unpopular opinion that they will—but if it’s at the point where one can’t even acknowledge the potential implications of two major, ambiguously or previously married characters sharing a final episode scene while simultaneously eagerly leaping on the potential implications of a major character and a minor character sharing that same scene, it’s getting into denial territory, in my opinion. I have no doubt whatsoever that if it were Jon, Sansa and Robin, or Sandor, Sansa and Robin, we’d be seeing some very different discussions.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, bubble sparkly said:

I agree that Sansa and Tyrion had a fair bit of romantic undercurrent to their scenes in past seasons when they were married.  In a way it was kind of the GoT version of the fake dating rom com trope, although we never got the usual conclusion where the fake dating leads to real feelings.  However, the fact that they seem to be going in on having Tyrion in love with Dany makes me question a Sansa/Tyrion endgame.  I believe PD gave a recent interview where he talked about the J/D/T triangle, and after s7 he said a few times that Tyrion was in love with Dany.

Tyrion having feelings for Dany wouldn't prevent a Sansa/Tyrion marriage if it was for political purposes. But if D&D wanted to have a Sansa/Tyrion endgame where they had mutual feelings, I just question why they would feel the need to have Tyrion fall for Dany.  Especially when he only has a few episodes next season to fall out of love with Dany and into love with Sansa.  Of course, Jon and Dany fell in love in a few episodes last season so I suppose it's not impossible for Tyrion's feelings to change quickly.  It just seems kind of pointless to have him take a detour in Dany love if his endgame is Sansa, especially when there's no tension/question as to who Dany would "choose" in the triangle.

Not sure about end game, but I still think that their relationship (not necessarily romantic) will feature this season, one way or another. Both are unsatisfied with their king or queen because they don't do what Sansa or Tyrion want. It could be that they become allies to challenge (not betray, just promote another policy or another outlook) Jon/Dany and start bonding again as friends, at least.

In case of a Tyrion's betrayal. Sophie T. was upset after the filming of what Friki claims is the trial. It could mean that Sansa is the only character there who still has a form of affection for Tyrion at this point -her emotion could be born from a completely different reason, of course. In that case, the presence of both Robin and Harry Strickland is interesting. If Sansa is destined to marry*, could D&D pull another character mash-up? "Harry" Strickland & Harding, since the Strickland on the show looks more like the Harding of the books; or could they de-moronize SweetRobin in S8 and reunite the two Book! heirs of the Vale in one character on the show? Not impossible.

In case there's no betrayal. Some people want Jon to have two queens, why Tyrion couldn't have two loves? He liked Sansa long before he met Dany, and it depends of course of the depth of his feelings for the latter  (what if they're mostly gratitude with "automatic" attraction to a beautiful woman?). It also depends on the evolution of Sansa's feelings, of course; but there's always the Eowyn/Faramir type of endgame.

*I don't think she needs a man, and I don't think she will marry for love if she does.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[GrailKing]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

We will have to wait and see if there is any SanSan scenes next season.

I think he finally gets his song, myself.

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I think he finally gets his song, myself.

Kaysen762 posted a rumour months ago that Peter and Sophie filmed on a closed set alone together. There are two reasons they’d need a closed set, and you’re really not going to like one of them.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

Just now, Eyes High said:

Kaysen762 posted a rumour months ago that Peter and Sophie filmed on a closed set together. There are two reasons they’d need a closed set, and you’re really not going to like one of them.

I'm talking Sandor, but I know of her death too.

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Kaysen762 posted a rumour months ago that Peter and Sophie filmed on a closed set alone together. There are two reasons they’d need a closed set, and you’re really not going to like one of them.

Also double betrayal, etc. so anything can happen.

I believe I posted my angst of Sansa many times.

[anamika]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

They already said why: because it's too much fun watching the meltdowns.

 

See? This is the issue I have with all these so called leakers.  In a forum for discussing leaks, it's apparently more fun to watch meltdowns. She's full of shit at this point. At least Friki comes right out and explains his leaks and what is speculation and what he knows etc. He is serious about his stuff. The rest - BoatsexBaby and co.? Just in there to call attention to themselves and act cute about how much fun it is 'watching meltdowns'.

And now apparently DutchArya has a source that is telling her stuff! Like how?! Do people randomly contact freefolk posters and start giving them info?

Friki and BoatsexBaby are directly contradicting each other. BoatsexBaby says that Joe Dempsie filmed in Seville as far as she knows. Friki says that Joe did not film a single frame. So one of them is wrong about what was filmed there.

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I am 100% sure that a lot of people jumped on the idea because they hate Tyrion and can't wait for him to die and took advantage of the "leaks" to unload a bunch of invective about how nasty and horrible Tyrion is, and that those same people are now looking mighty stupid.

 

Have Friki's leaks been totally debunked for people to look mighty stupid? BTW, book Tyrion raped a helpless slave. He's a rapist - I am not sure what is wrong in pointing that out to explain Tyrion's turn towards villainy in the books?

And Sansa/Tyrion is happening because Hannah Murray said she liked the ship?

Edited September 16, 2018 by anamika