S12.E22: Red Light

[JMO]

3 minutes ago, Nothingsurprisesme said:

Can someone help me figure out the scene when Reid and Diana are reunited.   When Reid stepped out of the elevator, I assume he didn't rush to her because he needed to assess her state of mind.  He wanoted to approach her based on her perception at that moment.   But what about Diana?  Emily had to tell her it was Spencer.   Did she not initially recognize him or what?  

Hard to know.  Diana did have an episode of not recognizing him when she first moved to his apartment, so maybe Emily was concerned about that.  Or maybe she was worried Diana would think she was hallucinating.  But, to me, it looked like just a moment of hesitation, trying to take it in.  Diana had herself just been rescued from a couple of days in captivity, including an extended stay in the trunk of a car.  

[ReidFan]

3 minutes ago, Nothingsurprisesme said:

Can someone help me figure out the scene when Reid and Diana are reunited.   When Reid stepped out of the elevator, I assume he didn't rush to her because he needed to assess her state of mind.  He wanoted to approach her based on her perception at that moment.   But what about Diana?  Emily had to tell her it was Spencer.   Did she not initially recognize him or what?  

it's hard to say. I think Spencer was steeling himself for the overwhelming emotion he knew he was about to walk into.  

As for Diana, I think she did recognise him right away but there's all kinds of possibilities as to why she waited before enveloping him in a hug. She might've been a little angry (I had an Alzheimer's family member and he got angry for seemingly the weirdest things) about being kidnapped, being manhandled, being in an unfamiliar situation; being at the BAU (she has those moments where she thinks they're all Fascists). She might have been a little confused, last time she saw Spencer he was still in the prison. Alzheimer's patients can lose track of time and date, it may have seemed like mere minutes to her, or it may have seemed like days and days. And finally, (and I think this the most likely because they would have been telling her he was on the way back and overall, she did seem rather lucid and together in yesterday's ep) I think she just wanted to drink in the sight of her baby, free and safe at last and then just overwhelmed and held on to him like she was never going to let go.

if that made any sense.

[Nothingsurprisesme]

True.  It was such a sweet moment when she told him to never leave her again.   I wonder how they will deal with things next season in regards to her.  I know that EM said a lot will be based on whether or not J. Lynch  would be available.   

Just wondering if they will have him still trying to keep her with him.

[Nothingsurprisesme]

Watched the episode again and still so many wow moments.  This is CM as it should be.  The answer is in figuring out the motivationsame and thinking of the unsubs.  There was actual profiling and the need to rethink things based on new info.  So hope they stick to this in season 13 and pull away from the violent scenes so much.  It is not necessary for intensity when it comes to profiling.  This episode and the first few seasons prove it.

[ReidFan]

I don't even 'mind' the 'violent' scenes or a bit of car chase/kablooey kinda stuff (they have to keep the male demographic interested somehow) what I would like to see dialed waaaaaaay back is the torture porn. I cannot abide the overly gratuitous body parts and bloody gore (stab wounds etc). 

I DO want to see the profiling. And as you say, the re-profiling where applicable. That shows the team at its best. 

[PMPA]

2 hours ago, Willowy said:

Just asked Breen and that guy was Thomas's stand-in who no longer has a job so since he's also an aspiring actor they gave him a line in the episode.

  Reveal hidden contents

He's not the mole. 

Breen also clarified about the XX XY thing:

"XX-XY was a message Cat told Lindsey to plant as part of the Scratch mislead. “They’ll think it means you and Scratch are working together” (as Reid initially profiles). Then, when he was in her prison, she could reveal the truth. Technically, “XX-XY” would imply that Cat already knows it’s a boy, even though she taunts Reid that it could be a boy or girl (“Spencie Jr… Maeve” line). My take is, she DOES know it’s a boy, but wants to mind-fuck, er, psychologically manipulate Reid as much as she can in that moment."

I'm thinking if this gentleman thought being an actor or an actors stand in meant job security, then he probably is looking at the wrong career path.

Its probably one of if, not the most insecure jobs out there, regardless of where on the food chain you are. Giving him a line gives him a credit on his resume which will do him good, but I'm afraid this comes with the terroritory.  

I'm trying to see the similarites between him and TG and I'm not getting it to be honest but I guess its not such a big thing.  Most of it is literally just 'standing in' for lighting set ups etc. 

[Droogie]

Most likely any glimpses of a stand-in are fleeting at best, so it would hardly matter that they aren't twins.  And anyway, a stand-in for TG is completely unnecessary at this point (unfortunate though that may be). However, it was nice of them to give him some screen time.

[roamyn]

A stand-in is just that.  He stands in during rehearsals & pre-rehearsals to get the lighting, actor placement, etc down.  And when the actor isn't available during rehearsals.

A body double, or stunt double, may appear on screen fleetingly, but rarely a stand-in.

Edited May 12, 2017 by roamyn

[PMPA]

Just finished watching last nights finale, although I felt like I had seen a lot of it via promos etc.  Gubler was really good again. I still think this arc went on too long and it was just a whole lot more complicated than it needed to be, but it certainly put Gubler front and center.  Reid fans and others too have been asking for Reid centric episodes for along time.  Not sure this would be entirely the way alot of Reid fans thought that would happen but I guess something is better than nothing.

Gubler was criminally underused, almost sidelined in recent seasons, much like TG was as Hotch, so, yeah, its good he got to do this.  He was particularly good in these last two episodes and these last two episodes were definitely the best.  Its been a less than mediocre season so these episodes were a definite step up.

I just hope that IF Gubler is back for S13, they don't just have him move along.  I know EM made some sort of comments on this, but I've learned that EM's comments should be taken with absolutely no reliance that what she said will actually happen. And lets face it, CM does not have a great track record with follow up. 

I have a zillion questions about last night, but I'm reading through posts here and getting answers to some, so I guess no need to go over those again.  I think they had way to much going on and so I think alot of those loose ends might just remain that way.  I'd be surprised if we saw Jane Lynch again.  It was hard enough to get her this time and I think I heard she just got another show? 

This was very obviously Enthropy P2.  To be honest, I much prefered the first one.  Watched it again the other night and its a great episode.  I will say though that when Reid put his hands around Cat's neck, I was pretty shocked.

The finale was a bit of a let down. I mean the finale of them in the cars and getting swiped. We'd already seen it and its definitely been done before.  If some characters are to go out this way, then I'd be more than fine with Walker, who was a total waste of space last night, Alvez and Prentiss.  

Im wondering how much information will come out at upfronts or in the weeks leading up to the writers being back.  I mean, if its confirmed that everyone is back, then I guess there goes the cliffhanger.

Big and totally over the top promotion of Shemar Moore.  I guess it worked a little.  His fans that might not be watching normally tuned in, but reading some social media, alot were not happy.  He was not on until last few minutes, its was only for a few minutes and no meet with Reid.

Personally I think the biggest piece of BS with his return was both the pointless 'babygirl' fawning, and most of all the fact that Hotch was not mentioned once in his or indeed the others discussion about Scratch.  It makes no sense that it was not mentioned when he was in the office with Prentiss, none. Even more so that the guy thats causing them problems now, is the very guy that has Hotch in the shit he's in.  Scratch hacked Garcia's phone, they know he's hacked the WitSec list.  Does none of them think it might be a thing to warn Hotch? And before anyone says, they would not have access, well we know thats bull crap.  Only last week we saw that Alvez has a contact. And are we really to believe that Garcia could not access this if she wanted to?  If not in the office between Morgan and Prentiss, then why not in the cars. I'd like to believe that Rossi knows where Hotch is and that he'd warn him. Then again the whole story regarding Hotch is so OOC and of the wall anyway, I guess its a bit much to think that we might get something resembling continuity.

We all know its the big elephant in the room, its controversial yadda yadda, but come on, if this is about getting a jibe at TG, I have two words for these folks - Mandy Patinkin.  I don't blame the actors of course, theyre just going with a script, but I think its shitty. Did there need to be a whole scene? Of course not (although that yawn fest between him and Garcia could have/should have hit the chopper), but to totally ignore it, bigly sad.

Alot of work, a whole lot of work needed to revamp 13.  Messer is talking out of her hiney if she thinks there will be a 14, especially if this show gets shunted to 10pm slot.  In my view, best they can hope for is an extra episode order for this season, which is the most likely.

[Droogie]

Ok, I just rewatched Green Light and now I'm at the beginning of a rewatch of this episode.  Cat tells Reid to open his eyes and look at her like she's the first woman he has seen after being in prison for three months.  He opens his eyes to the opulent dinner table with a gorgeous Cat seated across from him.  Does that mean that's Reid's fantasy?

Edited to add:  I am just as big a Hotch fan as most, second to Reid.  This finale had nothing to do with Hotch.  Sure, maybe it might have mentioned him but it did not.  Can we move on and discuss what was actually on the screen?  We are eight months removed from the unfortunate events that changed the show.  And everyone who thought the show hinged on Hotch just knew that the S12 episode order would be cut and there was no way we would get S13. But golly-gee, here we are.  So don't automatically assume S14 is impossible.  Because it simply is not.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Droogie

[PMPA]

43 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Most likely any glimpses of a stand-in are fleeting at best, so it would hardly matter that they aren't twins.  And anyway, a stand-in for TG is completely unnecessary at this point (unfortunate though that may be). However, it was nice of them to give him some screen time.

Like I said, a stand in is just that.  I've done it on occasion.  But like I said, if he's an aspiring actor and especially one who has been around the business, then he knows how things work. He's lost that particular job, its more than likely it was not his primary job, just like the other stadium loads of jobbing actors in that crazy town, so I'm not going to feel too devastated for him.  Does that sound bitchy? Maybe, but in this business, you grow a skin and you deal with it. Regardless of whether or not TG was still there, there is absoultely NO guarantee that this guy would still be. 

4 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Ok, I just rewatched Green Light and now I'm at the beginning of a rewatch of this episode.  Cat tells Reid to open his eyes and look at her like she's the first woman he has seen after being in prison for three months.  He opens his eyes to the opulent dinner table with a gorgeous Cat seated across from him.  Does that mean that's Reid's fantasy?

See I wondered that as well.  I fully expected to see Maeve

Edited May 12, 2017 by PMPA

[Fashionista7]

7 minutes ago, PMPA said:

Like I said, a stand in is just that.  I've done it on occasion.  But like I said, if he's an aspiring actor and especially one who has been around the business, then he knows how things work. He's lost that particular job, its more than likely it was not his primary job, just like the other stadium loads of jobbing actors in that crazy town, so I'm not going to feel too devastated for him.  Does that sound bitchy? Maybe, but in this business, you grow a skin and you deal with it. Regardless of whether or not TG was still there, there is absoultely NO guarantee that this guy would still be. 

See I wondered that as well.  I fully expected to see Maeve

 

Same.

But I know things got REAL the second she brought up Maeve. My jaw dropped.

How in the BLOODY hell did she know about her, besides from Reid's files?

[PMPA]

7 minutes ago, Fashionista7 said:

Same.

But I know things got REAL the second she brought up Maeve. My jaw dropped.

How in the BLOODY hell did she know about her, besides from Reid's files?

Im not sure what happened here.  I was replying to Droogies comment and it somehow attached on to another of Droogies comments...lol But Fashionista you figured what I was getting at.  Yes, that to me was odd and interesting but mostly odd. 

As for the whole access to files thing - honestly, both that and the whole 'bad guy has super duper skills and can cut through all of the security systems of the FBI, CIA', is over done, but more than that, awfully worrying.  Jeez, is it really that easy to get through these security systems?  How many times has Garcia been hacked at this stage? 

The other thing is, how much of this stuff would actually be on a personel file?  I guess what happened with Maeve might be on it, maybe if something like a psych evaluation was carried out etc, but I did wonder about the reference to Morgans kid.  Maybe I missed it, but did Prentiss say that Hank was NOT listed in Morgans files?  I cannot see that and it goes against comments made in other episodes throughout the seasons.  I also thought that Cat did know about his kid, maybe not his name.  I might have missed something as I was in and out of the room while it was on.

[Fashionista7]

Just now, PMPA said:

Im not sure what happened here.  I was replying to Droogies comment and it somehow attached on to another of Droogies comments...lol But Fashionista you figured what I was getting at.  Yes, that to me was odd and interesting but mostly odd. 

As for the whole access to files thing - honestly, both that and the whole 'bad guy has super duper skills and can cut through all of the security systems of the FBI, CIA', is over done, but more than that, awfully worrying.  Jeez, is it really that easy to get through these security systems?  How many times has Garcia been hacked at this stage? 

The other thing is, how much of this stuff would actually be on a personel file?  I guess what happened with Maeve might be on it, maybe if something like a psych evaluation was carried out etc, but I did wonder about the reference to Morgans kid.  Maybe I missed it, but did Prentiss say that Hank was NOT listed in Morgans files?  I cannot see that and it goes against comments made in other episodes throughout the seasons.  I also thought that Cat did know about his kid, maybe not his name.  I might have missed something as I was in and out of the room while it was on.

 

True, that's true.

Let's hope they address next season; sucks to have to wait until September's end!!!

[secnarf]

8 minutes ago, PMPA said:

The other thing is, how much of this stuff would actually be on a personel file?  I guess what happened with Maeve might be on it, maybe if something like a psych evaluation was carried out etc, but I did wonder about the reference to Morgans kid.  Maybe I missed it, but did Prentiss say that Hank was NOT listed in Morgans files?  I cannot see that and it goes against comments made in other episodes throughout the seasons.  I also thought that Cat did know about his kid, maybe not his name.  I might have missed something as I was in and out of the room while it was on.

I thought they said that the kid's name wouldn't be there, but it would say that Morgan has a kid.

[PMPA]

6 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I thought they said that the kid's name wouldn't be there, but it would say that Morgan has a kid.

Yes that is what I was wondering.  Like I said I was in and out of the room at the time.  That makes sense then that Reid purposely give the wrong name and Cat did not correct him.

[roamyn]

42 minutes ago, PMPA said:

Just finished watching last nights finale, although I felt like I had seen a lot of it via promos etc.  Gubler was really good again. I still think this arc went on too long and it was just a whole lot more complicated than it needed to be, but it certainly put Gubler front and center.  Reid fans and others too have been asking for Reid centric episodes for along time.  Not sure this would be entirely the way alot of Reid fans thought that would happen but I guess something is better than nothing.

Gubler was criminally underused, almost sidelined in recent seasons, much like TG was as Hotch, so, yeah, its good he got to do this.  He was particularly good in these last two episodes and these last two episodes were definitely the best.  Its been a less than mediocre season so these episodes were a definite step up.

I just hope that IF Gubler is back for S13, they don't just have him move along.  I know EM made some sort of comments on this, but I've learned that EM's comments should be taken with absolutely no reliance that what she said will actually happen. And lets face it, CM does not have a great track record with follow up. 

I have a zillion questions about last night, but I'm reading through posts here and getting answers to some, so I guess no need to go over those again.  I think they had way to much going on and so I think alot of those loose ends might just remain that way.  I'd be surprised if we saw Jane Lynch again.  It was hard enough to get her this time and I think I heard she just got another show? 

This was very obviously Enthropy P2.  To be honest, I much prefered the first one.  Watched it again the other night and its a great episode.  I will say though that when Reid put his hands around Cat's neck, I was pretty shocked.

The finale was a bit of a let down. I mean the finale of them in the cars and getting swiped. We'd already seen it and its definitely been done before.  If some characters are to go out this way, then I'd be more than fine with Walker, who was a total waste of space last night, Alvez and Prentiss.  

Im wondering how much information will come out at upfronts or in the weeks leading up to the writers being back.  I mean, if its confirmed that everyone is back, then I guess there goes the cliffhanger.

Big and totally over the top promotion of Shemar Moore.  I guess it worked a little.  His fans that might not be watching normally tuned in, but reading some social media, alot were not happy.  He was not on until last few minutes, its was only for a few minutes and no meet with Reid.

Personally I think the biggest piece of BS with his return was both the pointless 'babygirl' fawning, and most of all the fact that Hotch was not mentioned once in his or indeed the others discussion about Scratch.  It makes no sense that it was not mentioned when he was in the office with Prentiss, none. Even more so that the guy thats causing them problems now, is the very guy that has Hotch in the shit he's in.  Scratch hacked Garcia's phone, they know he's hacked the WitSec list.  Does none of them think it might be a thing to warn Hotch? And before anyone says, they would not have access, well we know thats bull crap.  Only last week we saw that Alvez has a contact. And are we really to believe that Garcia could not access this if she wanted to?  If not in the office between Morgan and Prentiss, then why not in the cars. I'd like to believe that Rossi knows where Hotch is and that he'd warn him. Then again the whole story regarding Hotch is so OOC and of the wall anyway, I guess its a bit much to think that we might get something resembling continuity.

We all know its the big elephant in the room, its controversial yadda yadda, but come on, if this is about getting a jibe at TG, I have two words for these folks - Mandy Patinkin.  I don't blame the actors of course, theyre just going with a script, but I think its shitty. Did there need to be a whole scene? Of course not (although that yawn fest between him and Garcia could have/should have hit the chopper), but to totally ignore it, bigly sad.

Alot of work, a whole lot of work needed to revamp 13.  Messer is talking out of her hiney if she thinks there will be a 14, especially if this show gets shunted to 10pm slot.  In my view, best they can hope for is an extra episode order for this season, which is the most likely.

I'm sorry you didn't see the episode the way most fans did.  IMHO there was no need to mention Hotch, other than the Prentiss line:  "I don't like the way I got it." , in reference to her new digs.

And Garcia/Morgan have a long, close history.  Considering the fake text came from 'Garcia', there needed to be those scenes.

i don't see a need to revamp CM.  I'mI do agree that Walker is mostly wasted space, but a Tara has proven her worth, and Alvez really stepped up to the plate lately.

[Kara101]

49 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Ok, I just rewatched Green Light and now I'm at the beginning of a rewatch of this episode.  Cat tells Reid to open his eyes and look at her like she's the first woman he has seen after being in prison for three months.  He opens his eyes to the opulent dinner table with a gorgeous Cat seated across from him.  Does that mean that's Reid's fantasy?

I was wondering that too! But then Cat said something along the lines of " I obviously like fairytales (and gestured towards her surroundings), signaling that it was her fantasy. Maybe she just wanted Reid to have that facial expression on his face?

Edited May 12, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[Droogie]

Yeah, I got to that part as well.  Could they have the same fantasy?  So much to delve into here.

I'm at the point where JJ pulled Spencer off Cat, his hands around her throat... he kept repeating "I'm going to kill you."  Would he have, do you think, if JJ hadn't been there?  I honestly don't know the answer.

[Fashionista7]

4 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Yeah, I got to that part as well.  Could they have the same fantasy?  So much to delve into here.

I'm at the point where JJ pulled Spencer off Cat, his hands around her throat... he kept repeating "I'm going to kill you."  Would he have, do you think, if JJ hadn't been there?  I honestly don't know the answer.

 

I think hell would have broke loose.

[Hotchgirl18]

4 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Yeah, I got to that part as well.  Could they have the same fantasy?  So much to delve into here.

I'm at the point where JJ pulled Spencer off Cat, his hands around her throat... he kept repeating "I'm going to kill you."  Would he have, do you think, if JJ hadn't been there?  I honestly don't know the answer.

I think he would've. 

Oh, and I am available to take Plaza 's place ANY day of the week! Lol

[Kara101]

5 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Yeah, I got to that part as well.  Could they have the same fantasy?  So much to delve into here.

I'm at the point where JJ pulled Spencer off Cat, his hands around her throat... he kept repeating "I'm going to kill you."  Would he have, do you think, if JJ hadn't been there?  I honestly don't know the answer.

I would hope the fact that she was pregnant would have made him snap out of it.

And I have the same confusion about the fantasy-maybe it is both their fantasy.

[Fashionista7]

Fantasies driven from insane roots.

[Droogie]

I would've totally reacted like Penelope, when JJ is on the phone saying they would hear weird stuff (while Spencer is dancing with Cat).

"I'm sorry, full stop."

(Sorry; I seem to be doing an independent play-by-play.  Ignore me.)

Edited May 12, 2017 by Droogie

[Hotchgirl18]

5 minutes ago, Fashionista7 said:

Fantasies driven from insane roots.

So what do we call my fantasy then?

[Fashionista7]

Just now, Hotchgirl18 said:

So what do we call my fantasy then?

I meant, Cat's fantasies are driven from insane roots.

I apologize if I offended you.

[PMPA]

10 minutes ago, roamyn said:

I'm sorry you didn't see the episode the way most fans did.  IMHO there was no need to mention Hotch, other than the Prentiss line:  "I don't like the way I got it." , in reference to her new digs.

And Garcia/Morgan have a long, close history.  Considering the fake text came from 'Garcia', there needed to be those scenes.

i don't see a need to revamp CM.  I'mI do agree that Walker is mostly wasted space, but a Tara has proven her worth, and Alvez really stepped up to the plate lately.

Well just as you have your opinion I have mine. Both are valid are they not? 

I simply cannot understand though how anyone can say that there was no need to mention Hotch.  Perhaps if Hotch was gone a number of seasons ago or more specifically if his absense/exit was due to any other reason, then yes, no need.  That was not the case.  Hotchs absense is very much because of the current bad guy, and that is because that is how the writers wrote it. If they did not want people to question these things, then they probably should have come up with a different excuse for his exit.  Remember, I am referring to the character, a most significant character.

To suggest that Prentiss comment should some how suffice is odd, and odder still that she did not continue then with a reference to Hotch or indeed Morgan to ask about him.  Look, its basic continuity and actually would have made a lot of sense.  Its pretty obvious to me why the character was not mentioned, and if my thoughts on that are correct, then their reasoning is not cool. 

I know exactly about Garcia and Morgan. I dont get why her getting the text meant that this scene was so important.  In fact the whole, "you never call...etc" as said by Rossi and others made not alot of sense either based on those very relationships we saw built up.

Im not entirely sure what you mean by a CM revamp, but I give my view on if there are to be casualites who I would be OK with leaving. I am iffy on Lewis because I dont mind her, but I'd be more than happy to see Alvez, Walker and Prentiss gone.  I would never have said Prentiss a few seasons ago, but I went off Prentiss way back a few seasons ago.  

[Hotchgirl18]

7 minutes ago, PMPA said:

Well just as you have your opinion I have mine. Both are valid are they not? 

I simply cannot understand though how anyone can say that there was no need to mention Hotch.  Perhaps if Hotch was gone a number of seasons ago or more specifically if his absense/exit was due to any other reason, then yes, no need.  That was not the case.  Hotchs absense is very much because of the current bad guy, and that is because that is how the writers wrote it. If they did not want people to question these things, then they probably should have come up with a different excuse for his exit.  Remember, I am referring to the character, a most significant character.

To suggest that Prentiss comment should some how suffice is odd, and odder still that she did not continue then with a reference to Hotch or indeed Morgan to ask about him.  Look, its basic continuity and actually would have made a lot of sense.  Its pretty obvious to me why the character was not mentioned, and if my thoughts on that are correct, then their reasoning is not cool. 

I know exactly about Garcia and Morgan. I dont get why her getting the text meant that this scene was so important.  In fact the whole, "you never call...etc" as said by Rossi and others made not alot of sense either based on those very relationships we saw built up.

Im not entirely sure what you mean by a CM revamp, but I give my view on if there are to be casualites who I would be OK with leaving. I am iffy on Lewis because I dont mind her, but I'd be more than happy to see Alvez, Walker and Prentiss gone.  I would never have said Prentiss a few seasons ago, but I went off Prentiss way back a few seasons ago.  

We need Scratch to annihilate the team and start fresh with a new one. Maybe actually write some characters! 

[Hotchgirl18]

So is Cat right? Is Reid a budding psychopath?

[ReidFan]

no, that's what the comforting conversation with JJ on the floor was initially about. Before he brainstormed what Cat was actually up to. JJ, the one BAU member who's been through PTSD probably recognised that he's not fully 'himself' and that despite what happened in the prison, he's a good person and not a psychopath. (I hope they revisit this in the fall) And she told him she'd have done the exact same thing if her life was in danger.

[JMO]

9 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

So is Cat right? Is Reid a budding psychopath?

Sorry, HG.  No, he isn't.  

[TigerLynx]

I can't believe they didn't have one scene between Reid and Morgan.  That was just wrong.

MGG was excellent in all his scenes.  For some reason, I always forget how tall MGG is.

Reid is nothing like Cat or Lindsey.  He could have killed the prisoners with the poisoned drugs, but he didn't.  Finally, the writers remember that Reid is almost always the smartest person in the room.

[Hotchgirl18]

2 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

I can't believe they didn't have one scene between Reid and Morgan.  That was just wrong.

MGG was excellent in all his scenes.  For some reason, I always forget how tall MGG is.

Reid is nothing like Cat or Lindsey.  He could have killed the prisoners with the poisoned drugs, but he didn't.  Finally, the writers remember that Reid is almost always the smartest person in the room.

I didn't know he was that strong. 

[Complexity]

41 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

So is Cat right? Is Reid a budding psychopath?

No. She tried to convince him of it, telling him once he had done the things he did, he could never go back to being a good man. That's when Reid replied, "Watch me," meaning his actions did not make him a psychopath.

Moreover, psychopath is a layman's term for someone with Anti-Social Personality Disorder. This disorder requires that the person display symptoms starting at the age of 15 with symptoms of Conduct Disorder prior to the age of 15.

In other words, that kind of psychopathology manifests itself early. No adult can suddenly become a psychopath no matter what bad things they do.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Complexity

[ReidFan]

10 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I can't believe they didn't have one scene between Reid and Morgan.  That was just wrong.

 

If you read the TV guide end of season interview with Erica Messer she explained that.  

Both shemar and Matthew were consulted about it.  And they all felt (I'm assuming she means Breen here too) that the last time we saw Reid and Morgan was that lovely goodbye in A Beautiful Disaster, and the nod  through the window as Morgan entered the elevator. And everyone thought it was such a powerful moment for both of them so they decided against an actual scene together.  

I thought that was a lovely explanation. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by ReidFan
Typo

[ReidGirl]

I am still overwhelmed!!! 

I loved this episode and there is so much chemistry between MGG and Aubrey Plaza. Finally a woman albeit a pschycopath who finds Reid sexually attractive. 

6 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I can't believe they didn't have one scene between Reid and Morgan.  That was just wrong.

MGG was excellent in all his scenes.  For some reason, I always forget how tall MGG is.

Reid is nothing like Cat or Lindsey.  He could have killed the prisoners with the poisoned drugs, but he didn't.  Finally, the writers remember that Reid is almost always the smartest person in the room.

Agree with everything you said Tigerlynx, especially the part about writers realising that Reid is almost always the smartest person in the room.

I hope Reid has central role in season 13, not an arc but pivotal role in all the cases. They seriously have underutilised Reid till now.

I was also looking forward to Morgan and Reid scene. But hey we can't have everything and all in all this was one amazing wrap up to season 12. It immensely helped that I did not watch the promos or read any threads before I watched it. It was a joy ride full of surprises and amazing performances for me.

For all CM lovers which was your favourite scene in this episode. Mine was when Reid says "Watch me" to Cat and leaves the room without turning back, closely followed by Diana and Spencer reunion and conversation with JJ on the floor.

Edited May 12, 2017 by ReidGirl
To add question about favourite scene

[basil]

Quote

Like I said, a stand in is just that.  I've done it on occasion.  But like I said, if he's an aspiring actor and especially one who has been around the business, then he knows how things work. He's lost that particular job, its more than likely it was not his primary job, just like the other stadium loads of jobbing actors in that crazy town, so I'm not going to feel too devastated for him.  Does that sound bitchy? Maybe, but in this business, you grow a skin and you deal with it. Regardless of whether or not TG was still there, there is absoultely NO guarantee that this guy would still be. 

To expand on that, you don't even need to be an actor to be a stand in, just the basic same height, weight, shape and skin color tone. I've done it and I'm crew.

It is not unusual to "tip" or thank someone behind the scenes by putting them in a scene. It's a credit for an actor (though not much of one), but it's also money. If you speak a line, it's more money. David Letterman was well-known for bringing out his whole crew on camera every Christmas, knowing they'd have to be paid for simply appearing on the show.

Ah, yes, the show. Loved seeing Gubler show us a little more of his acting chops. I enjoy Reid, but I'm glad to see a little more "there" there. He's actually a very fine actor with a lot of range. It's been interesting watching him progress from the milquetoast boy wonder to the man he is now.

The differences between Patinkin's exit and TG's are quite different. Patinkin was unprofessional, but TG was allegedly abusive and violent. I imagine there's a lot of bad blood there. I doubt we will ever hear of Hotch again.

I could have lived without ever seeing Shemar Moore ever again on the show. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by basil

[Droogie]

4 hours ago, basil said:

To expand on that, you don't even need to be an actor to be a stand in, just the basic same height, weight, shape and skin color tone. I've done it and I'm crew.

It is not unusual to "tip" or thank someone behind the scenes by putting them in a scene. It's a credit for an actor (though not much of one), but it's also money. If you speak a line, it's more money. David Letterman was well-known for bringing out his whole crew on camera every Christmas, knowing they'd have to be paid for simply appearing on the show.

Ah, yes, the show. Loved seeing Gubler show us a little more of his acting chops. I enjoy Reid, but I'm glad to see a little more "there" there. He's actually a very fine actor with a lot of range. It's been interesting watching him progress from the milquetoast boy wonder to the man he is now.

The differences between Patinkin's exit and TG's are quite different. Patinkin was unprofessional, but TG was allegedly abusive and violent. I imagine there's a lot of bad blood there. I doubt we will ever hear of Hotch again.

I could have lived without ever seeing Shemar Moore ever again on the show.

Y'know, I'm a fan of the character of Morgan and, more often than not, I enjoyed Morgan's and Reid's scenes together.  And I really miss that. But I thought SM was a little wooden in this episode, and his appearance didn't do a lot to further the plot -- we could've gotten his intel another way.  Plus I found his scene with Garcia to be just a bit OTT.

[JMO]

9 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Y'know, I'm a fan of the character of Morgan and, more often than not, I enjoyed Morgan's and Reid's scenes together.  And I really miss that. But I thought SM was a little wooden in this episode, and his appearance didn't do a lot to further the plot -- we could've gotten his intel another way.  Plus I found his scene with Garcia to be just a bit OTT.

I felt the same way.  It was like he was Morgan, but not really.  I suspect he just didn't have enough time to get back into the character.  Sounds like the whole thing was rushed, due to his new series.  Makes me wonder what, if anything, they might have had planned otherwise.

[ReidGirl]

9 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Y'know, I'm a fan of the character of Morgan and, more often than not, I enjoyed Morgan's and Reid's scenes together.  And I really miss that. But I thought SM was a little wooden in this episode, and his appearance didn't do a lot to further the plot -- we could've gotten his intel another way.  Plus I found his scene with Garcia to be just a bit OTT.

Yup I am with you on this one Droogie. I was actually hoping for a Morgan and Reid scene but that did not happen. In this episode Shemar Moore did not feel like Morgan at all. 

[Hotchgirl18]

I am fiercely NHNW despite watching the finale and actually enjoying it. BUT they are DETERMINED to make us forget Hotch ever existed. A mention in the finale wouldn't hurt since Scratch got him in this mess. So please. If you like Hotch as much as you claim you do, then you'll let us remember him. Because that's the one thing they can't take away. You either support TG or you don't. There's only two ways this can go. So pick a side. You either want us to forget about his contributions to CM, or you want to continue his legacy. Period. 

[Complexity]

6 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

NHNW

What does this mean?

[Hotchgirl18]

3 minutes ago, Complexity said:

What does this mean?

 

3 minutes ago, Complexity said:

What does this mean?

It stands for No Hotch No Watch 

[Guest]

I have moved a couple of posts to the Analysis thread.  If you are going to discuss more than 1 episode, please do it in that thread.

Please stop telling people where and how to post.  If you think there is an issue, use the report button and we'll take a look. 

If someone is getting on your nerves but they are not breaking the site rules, use the ignore function.

Also, I have hidden some posts that were crossing the line into incivility. 

Thanks.

[Danielg342]

2 hours ago, JMO said:

I felt the same way.  It was like he was Morgan, but not really.  I suspect he just didn't have enough time to get back into the character.  Sounds like the whole thing was rushed, due to his new series.  Makes me wonder what, if anything, they might have had planned otherwise.

Erica Messer said Shemar Moore was only available for one day and his appearance wasn't planned, which changed the ending, I believe.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Danielg342

[PMPA]

1 minute ago, Danielg342 said:

Erica Messer said Shemar Moore was only available for one day and his appearance wasn't planned.

Thats an actors job though, and a good actor should be able to get into character, particularly one theyve played for nearly 12 years, without to much drama...pun not nessesarily unintended!  I'm not suggesting SM is not a good actor, just that I think he has put Morgan to bed and perhaps had to drag him up for this.  Perhaps how he played it was intentional. To show that he was no longer Derek Morgan Federal Agent but Derek Morgan husband and father. But lots of actors who have played a role for a long time have gone back to them and its been seemless. This was good promotion for him though, so I can't see that he had any great objection to it.  Incidentially, according to his own Instagragm, his pilot had not actually started filming yet, but was imminent.  

[Complexity]

For me, Morgan didn't feel right in Red Light because of his beard and the context.

He just didn't look like Morgan to me (the vision I have held of him for all these years). His beard affected his facial expressions.

Also the context seemed contrived. Morgan was always in the midst of working on a case so the banter with Garcia was usually short and fast, then pushed aside to handle whatever was the real subject. But this time, the atmosphere with Garcia seemed slow and a bit awkward. They just kind of met in the room/hallway (don't remember where now). Garcia wasn't in her lair computer room. It just felt off.

Then when Morgan walked away, his shoes and pants looked different... kind of dorky looking? Slumped over posture, short pants, light brown high top shoes... Just not the same confident muscle man as before. I don't know if I saw it that way because things seemed off or if that's another way in which it was off.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed having him on if even for a short while. Morgan was always one of my favorites. I've missed him so I enjoyed what I could get of him. ?

[R3volver]

On 5/11/2017 at 4:35 PM, Haleysgalaxy said:

I hope he doesn't request custody of that baby. He's a great person but he's not a saint. Taking care of a baby that's not yours and is the child of someone who tried to killed your mother just seems like too much. He also doesn't have anybody to help him raise the baby with which would be very hard. The child will be adopted instantly since the child will be put up for adoption as an infant. Infants are in extreme demand and are scooped up instantly. He has no obligation to that baby and is not in the best position to raise it.

It would also delay Reid having his own baby with a partner who he wants to have it with. 

And I agree that I would want it to be a girl!

 

I agree with you.  With taking care of his mom(even then he still needed help) he can't take on the responsibility of raising a child.  He would be an amazing father, but I'm not sure right now is the best time.

[PMPA]

5 hours ago, Complexity said:

For me, Morgan didn't feel right in Red Light because of his beard and the context.

He just didn't look like Morgan to me (the vision I have held of him for all these years). His beard affected his facial expressions.

Also the context seemed contrived. Morgan was always in the midst of working on a case so the banter with Garcia was usually short and fast, then pushed aside to handle whatever was the real subject. But this time, the atmosphere with Garcia seemed slow and a bit awkward. They just kind of met in the room/hallway (don't remember where now). Garcia wasn't in her lair computer room. It just felt off.

Then when Morgan walked away, his shoes and pants looked different... kind of dorky looking? Slumped over posture, short pants, light brown high top shoes... Just not the same confident muscle man as before. I don't know if I saw it that way because things seemed off or if that's another way in which it was off.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed having him on if even for a short while. Morgan was always one of my favorites. I've missed him so I enjoyed what I could get of him. ?

I had to laugh at your description of how Morgan was dressed.  When I saw him, particularly when he was walking away, I thought, 'jeez, Shemar must have been late to set again, did'nt have time to get into Morgan costume'...I jest, but what I mean is, thats how Shemar Moore dresses, that's very much his style, as per his many many pictures he posts..lol. The one major difference here, is that he kept his shirt on! 

[R3volver]

On 5/11/2017 at 6:15 PM, Droogie said:

Ok, I just rewatched Green Light and now I'm at the beginning of a rewatch of this episode.  Cat tells Reid to open his eyes and look at her like she's the first woman he has seen after being in prison for three months.  He opens his eyes to the opulent dinner table with a gorgeous Cat seated across from him.  Does that mean that's Reid's fantasy?

Edited to add:  I am just as big a Hotch fan as most, second to Reid.  This finale had nothing to do with Hotch.  Sure, maybe it might have mentioned him but it did not.  Can we move on and discuss what was actually on the screen?  We are eight months removed from the unfortunate events that changed the show.  And everyone who thought the show hinged on Hotch just knew that the S12 episode order would be cut and there was no way we would get S13. But golly-gee, here we are.  So don't automatically assume S14 is impossible.  Because it simply is not.

 

The way I interpreted that scene was that she told him to look at her like she's the first woman he has seen, not to just imagine the first woman he would want to see after being in prison.  I think he just followed the directions as stated.

On 5/11/2017 at 6:30 PM, SweetTooth said:

In most series, you can tell when they're trying to get two people together. For instance, when you have a cop show with two highly attractive people partnering up, and they're both single, and constantly banter/bicker will they/won't they, you can rest assured they will. Eventually. But first they'll put up stupid roadblocks and fake relationships.

In this case, JJ is married, and as they've hit us over and over and OVER again with, A MOM. That's not a small roadblock. 

So, yeah, even if JJ gets divorced, Reid and JJ suddenly running into each other's arms and Reid becoming daddy, just doesn't even seem in the realm of possibility. I mean, think about it. How would it look if after she divorces Will, she's all hot and steamy with Reid? Boy, would that take away the defining characteristic the show has given her.

2

 

Well, when my parents divorced, my mom quickly moved into a new relationship.  That was because their romantic relationship ended long before they legally separated, as it commonly does.  I consider my mom a great mother and it took nothing away from any of her 'defining characteristics.'  I would think the same should JJ ever divorce and move on.