S03.E21: Cause and Effect

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 5/9/2017 at 9:06 PM, Lantern7 said:

The source of tremendous heat is with Killer Shark? I don't get that. 

So, after Flashpoint occurred was King Shark never captured ?  And how did he get the red orb that kind provide more power than the sun (3.86TJ is the new 1.21 Gigawatts).

And writers on this show need to brush up on their science material because 3.86TJ is not that much (and no where near the total solar output). In fact, 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(energy)

Total solar output is approx. 3.83 × 10 to the power of 26 Watts  -- which makes 3.86TJ to be the on the order .01 picoseconds of the sun's total output.

The Flash writers epic science fail.

On 5/9/2017 at 10:29 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, pretty much my mindset. If you don't want Barry to know the plan so Barritar doesn't....just don't tell or show Barry anything! In fact, why didn't they just keep Barry like this until the day after Iris' death? Just chill out until June. Teach Barry how to be The Flash. If he went through a learning period once, he can do it again! Of course they inserted a Big Fire with a conveniently missing Mick Rory ripoff for them to not just leave Barry as is. Seriously, I was with Iris on wanting to keep amnesiac Barry, but for the sole reason that the losses would be outweighed by the gains. Oh no, so Wally doesn't become Kid Flash. Is that supposed to be a negative? I mean, I like Wally as Kid Flash now, but only because he's gone back to his supporting character role. Savitar's running around screaming "Who am I?" would have eventually led to a paradox that, as they implied, would have corrected itself with Savitar not killing Iris and everything pretty much going back to normal. I mean, they're already messing with time with this closed loop bullshit (AKA, we wrote ourselves into a tight corner and don't know how else to explain it because we can't hire actual scientists and researchers to give us a plausible reason for all of this since we made it up on the fly with zero factual thinking behind it) so what's another paradox and singularity and all that crap? 

Despite that, I still liked the episode a lot. I really did laugh at Amnesiac Barry. His reaction to Wally's "We're brothers" had me cackling when he looked down at his hand. I have to believe that it was a Grant Gustin improv moment. 

If Barry had amnesia, wouldn't that mean that the time loop would have never occurred -- so shouldn't Savitar have up and disappeared like a fart in the wind, instead of just standing around asking what his name was ?

On 5/10/2017 at 7:54 PM, BkWurm1 said:

But time remnants never just faded away. They could go back to the point in time from which they came (continuing the timeline that would then be the current Barry's past) they could die (Again that one doesn't make sense), or get destroyed by time wraiths ( or the zombie Zoom) but one has never just faded away.  

I'm really disappointed by the time wraiths -- they have shown up for much more minor time problems, but appear to have given Savitar a pass (for some reason)

On 5/11/2017 at 7:12 PM, doram said:

"Cause and Effect" established that there's a direct link between the actions Barry takes in the present and Savitar's past actions - like giving Wally his speed. When Barry got amnesia, Savitar also 'forgot' to give Wally his speed retroactively. 

LOL. None of this makes sense but I'm pretty sure that at this point in time, Barry isn't going to even consider making a time remnant of himself ever again. 

But won't he need to create a time-remnant in order to test the speed bazooka -- to see if it works.

[Ottis]

Well, fun seeing how mini Barry fell in love with his erstwhile sister. That kid looked about 7, I thought he was 12 when he moved in? So now I am back to thinking that Barry plus Iris is creepy. I can't believe this doesn't bother Joe.

i can only watch this show when I fast forward through any scene with two characters talking to each other. That seems to skip most of the butt hurt. 

[BkWurm1]

On 5/10/2017 at 9:58 PM, ElleMo said:

They did in

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this seasons final episode of Legends of Tomorrow.  Or at least Sarah did.

Except in that case, the past was changed and thus nullified the existence of the remnant.  (Which is what should have happened with Thawn)  Time remnants that Barry could go recruit (because create is a term that really misconstrues what happens) would have no reason to cease to exist.  It honestly bothers me how casual they are about time remnants dying.  

[Princess Lucky]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Except in that case, the past was changed and thus nullified the existence of the remnant.  (Which is what should have happened with Thawn)  Time remnants that Barry could go recruit (because create is a term that really misconstrues what happens) would have no reason to cease to exist.  It honestly bothers me how casual they are about time remnants dying.  

Agreed. I said it at the time, too, in the LoT finale thread. They did a surprisingly great job at resolving the time travel issues (as much as they can be resolved). And they had a much more accurate/straight-forward definition of "time aberration." Compared to them, the writers of the Flash seem even more incompetent. And the Flash story is that much more convoluted. It's all so vague, that they don't bother to give a "basic" explanation (unless Cisco's squiggly lines count). On Legends, they managed to "explain" everything without even going into specifics, because the way they used time travel (especially in the finale) was organic, and the viewer could intuitively follow it.  On The Flash, personally I've been struggling to follow along, because the rules change every two minutes.

[Lady Calypso]

9 hours ago, doram said:

The serial arsonist <<<< Savitar. The arsonist wasn't even a meta - he was just a human being with a weapon. They could have put him in their pipeline before he got hold of a heat gun. And even after he attacked, does the show really want us to believe that between Central City's police & fire-fighters and Cisco's cold guns, they were powerless without the Flash?

It would have been one thing if they were facing a meta-human like the Weather Wizard or even something like Grodd or Shark, but come on. 

I agree. It was almost a big F-U to the firefighters in Central City. It's a big fire, sure, but the fact that Barry wasn't even gaining his powers back to STOP the non-meta just made it frustrating. It was just to put out the fire. But I'm not really a fan of the fact that they implied that without The Flash, the city can't survive. Against a meta, I get. Against some dude with a heat gun is a different story. Barry and Wally didn't even end up finding the guy in the end, so the guy is just running around with a heat gun and will probably show up early next season to cause more havoc.

They really should have brought back Weather Wizard or someone else that Barry had to stop. 

[johntfs]

On 5/14/2017 at 11:06 AM, legaleagle53 said:

 I also wonder what new version of Wells we're going to get next season.

I'm hoping for Harriette Wells with Tom in Mrs. Doubtfire-style drag all season.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Barry and Wally didn't even end up finding the guy in the end, so the guy is just running around with a heat gun and will probably show up early next season to cause more havoc.

They did catch him; it was the last scene right before the commercial break.

[Rachel RSL]

On 5/14/2017 at 0:06 PM, legaleagle53 said:

Won't happen, and you can thank (or blame) Tom Cavanagh for that.  His contract specifically allows him to play a new and different version of Wells each season to keep him from getting bored with the part.  

What a ridiculous thing for TPTB to have agreed to. I like Tom Cavanagh but I would have just hired another actor.

[Trini]

Never really paid attention to the 'memories' that flash by when Barry gets zapped:
- "Sweet dreams, my beautiful boy"
- "Way to go, slugger"
- "Run, Barry, run!"
- "I have watched you be in love with Iris..."
- "Maybe we were meant to be together"

Along with clips of Nora, Henry, Iris(x3), Joe, Caitlin, Cisco, Zoom, Reverse Flash, Young Barry, ending with Barry kissing Iris.