Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[SSAHotchner]

Favorite post season 5 episodes:

 

Hanley Waters

Unknown Subject

Profiling 101

Gabby

The Edge of Winter

Self Fulfilling Prophecy

Epilogue

Painless

Foundation

True Genius

Persuasion

The Caller

 

 

[mstaken]

Welcome, Sharpie66! I loved reading your thoughts. 

 

2. True Genius: Yes, Reid, but also as someone who wrote her first school research paper on Leopold and Loeb, I loved that the relationship between the unsub and his best friend was a complete shout-out to those two, and that the one who was based on Loeb (the true psychopath of the pair) was actually the unsub's friend. When I realized that that was where they going, I actually yelled "Hell, yeah!" at the tv.

 

It's always fun to see this episode, which is one of my special favorites, get some love. It's also validating to know I'm not the only one endlessly fascinated by the Leopold and Loeb case :) 

 

ood Earth--this one is a weird one to like, but since the illness that the unsub was delusionally convinced she and her daughter suffered from, Stevens Johnson Syndrome, nearly killed my mother back in the late 1970s, I have a strange connection with the ep.

 

This makes perfect sense to me. As confessed above, I'm far more attached to From Childhood's Hour than, well, pretty much any other CM fan on the planet, and part of that relates to my family's experiences with depression. 

 

Self Fulfilling Prophecy

Epilogue
Painless
Foundation
True Genius

 

Woo hoo---SSAHotchner, are you another secret S7 fan?! Or at least not an S7 hater? I'll settle for that ;)

[Sharpie66]

Leopold was paroled and left Stateville Prison a few years before my dentist uncle started working there on an occasional basis (he had his hands in the mouths of Gacy, Speck, and a whole myriad of murderers and other criminals,) so as a Jolietan, I came by my fascination with him and Loeb naturally!

[mstaken]

Some more questions for us: Favorite and least favorite Unsubs/cases/mysteries? Favorite/least favorite team bonding scenes? 

[Wilowy]

One of my favorite all-time team bonding scenes is between Reid and Hotch on the jet at the end of Elephant's Memory. Such a beautiful dressing down, and in such a caring way. Hotch had to do it, but made sure Reid knew he still and would always have his back, and that he cared. 

 

I'm also always really touched by the team's rally when Penelope gets shot. 

 

And of course y'all knew I'd have to include the book shelving and evident love for Spencer at his apartment as Magnum Opus ends. 

*Edited to add - as far as UnSubs go, we have a great and villainous thread for that here: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/4993-lets-talk-unsubs-the-villains-of-criminal-minds/#entry65407

[zannej]

I actually really liked the way they introduced Kevin and how he interacted with the team. I loved that he picked up on things and realized that there was more to things than met the eye initially and that he was able to help the team and communicate with them without losing his cool. It was nice to see the team have another ally and I agree that the team rallying was nice.

 

I also really liked the team interactions in "Revelations". I liked the contrast of it showing how they were hanging out enjoying themselves until they got a case. I loved Reid and his star trek trivia with Anderson and Gina. Liked how JJ was winning at darts and said her town didn't have a bowling alley and how she ruffled Reid's hair. I can't remember if that was the one where Hotch was dancing with Haley.

 

I liked it when Haley asked Prentiss how things were going and Hotch was like "She wants to know if I'm being nice to you" and Haley pointed at him and nodded. Hotch's "come on Haley, let's show them how its done" and going to dance with her was so sweet. It showed that he had a fun side. I really hate that they changed that and had Haley leave him.

 

I lost my train of thought. Oh yeah, so it went from fun times to the team being worried about Reid and Hotch thinking that Reid was going to die and wishing he'd done more for him. I also liked when Morgan talked about profiling the house and what it had to say and Garcia said something like "My guess is it would be 'Get out!'"

[FormerMod-a1]

Some of my favorite team scenes are more moments.  Like the scene of them all watching Charlie Chaplin in a conference room after a particularly rough case.  Or when Reid asked Elle why he couldn't get a date and she just matter of factly (and with no judgement) asked "Well, have you asked anyone out?" and he said No.  And she said "Well, that's why" (or something like that).  Or when most of them were playing poker on the plane and Reid won again and Morgan asked if he was cheating and he wasn't.  Hotch piped in with "He grew up in Vegas!"  in a like-duh! of course he's good at gambling tone.

[zannej]

I really did like it when Reid had that conversation with Elle. It wasn't that he couldn't get a date, it was that he didn't try. I also liked it when Elle told him to never leave or something and also told him that she didn't know why he knew everything he knew, but she was glad that he knew it (that was around the time of the "have you asked anyone out?" part.). He asked her if she thought it was weird that he knew all sorts of strange things. He was basically asking "Do you think I'm a weirdo" and she basically told him that she found his knowledge useful. It was such a stark contrast to the eyerolling and people shushing him in season 5 onward.

 

I think the conversation with Morgan was like "Why do you always win"

Reid said something about statistics (I think).

JJ said "He cheats!"

and Hotch said "He's from Vegas!"

[missmycat]

 What about the time Elle was profiling an unsub and then realized that she was also describing Reid.So she quickly added "Plus he's a complete psychopath" That has to be one of my all time favorite Elle/Reid scenes.

Edited June 6, 2014 by missmycat

[zannej]

Oh yeah! I loved that one. I liked how Reid was looking sort of disturbed at first and then was like "Oh, Ok" when she tried to make it clear she wasn't describing him. LOL.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Oh, good, one-shot characters count. Because Melissa Leo as Sheriff George in The Evilution of Frank reminded me a little of Kay Howard. And special mention must go to Amy Madigan as poor, doomed Jane. The look on her face as she steps past Gideon, who's got his gun aimed at Frank's head, just breaks my heart because she's so *happy* to see Frank even knowing that he's a monster. I always wondered if she could have ever recovered from crossing paths with him, become a whole person again. But I guess that's how you effectively do tragedy, like the UnSub in True Night, who was just this guy that had something hideous happen to him, and he was never the same again.

[SSAHotchner]

I know Cade Owens isn't much of an actor, but I still adore Jack. Maybe because he's Hotch's kid, but he melts my heart. Now that he is so much older, it's a little harder to love him. He's been doing this for so many years. I wish the mom would consider an acting coach. My apologies if he's already had one and still is a lousy actor. :)

 

The girls in North Mammon were good and believable, but that's a hard episode for me to watch. I couldn't take a friend's life. Although they certainly made that girl bitchy enough that you were able to accept her fate. Also loved the kid in The Big Wheel, which is airing on my local NBC station right now. He is precious.

 

For unsubs, I also like Adam/Amanda in Conflicted, Jonny in True Night and Owen in Elephant's memory. But I don't want the unsubs to be sympathetic most of the time. One here and there is okay, but I prefer the killers to deserve their fate.

[FormerMod-a1]

One of my favorite episodes in on right now - Ashes & Dust.  It has so much good about.  From Hotch staying with the woman as she died.  To Morgan doing the "I'm the unsub" thing.  Just all of it.  This is when the writing was at it's best, I think.  (Not just this ep, but this era).  It's part of why I absolutely fell in love with this show.  Watch this opening.  It's characters you only see briefly, but it just pulls you in so thoroughly with even just so little dialogue.  Just watching the family trying to escape and having every outlet blocked.   You just feel so much for these people that you just met.  And then seeing the unsub.  

 

[SSAHotchner]

Agree, Aquarian. But then Hotch is my favorite, so I love episodes that feature him. I saw season 8 was on ION today, and it's my least favorite season. But then what an eye opener when they moved from the end of season 8 to starting all over again with season 1. The writing in season one is superb and the characters are so much more interesting and complex.

[Wilowy]

I love how in the later seasons we get to see more of the team's personal lives. I love how we finally get to see Reid's apartment and his sweet but doomed romance, we get to see Hotch trying to actually have a romantic life, we get to see Rossi's ex and learn that he had a son. I know some people don't care for it, but since the team is ALL for me, I love all the personal stuff. It would be weird if after all this time we didn't get to see what they do on their off hours. We've been with them almost a decade. What, we can't see them go to the theater? 

 

Next season I want to see Reid play his keyboard, hang out at his favorite bookstore, and visit his mother. I want to see Morgan and Savannah argue, and I want to see Penelope single again. I want to see Hotch do his and Jack's laundry and I want to see Will die heroically. I DO love to see them profile the fuck out of the latest UnSub, but there are many stories that lie within these characters, and though some say all that belongs in fanfic, I disagree. I think the OTT stuff belongs in fanfic, but small moments that humanize and make our heroes more relatable are WAY welcome, in my book.  

[zannej]

I have to agree about Jack. I was dreading his appearances because the kid is not a good actor and he often sort of ruins the scene for me. Even though his line delivery was better in the last one, there is still just something off about him. I don't know if the directors tell him to act a certain way so he can be like a mini- Hotch (all serious and stuff) or what the deal is.

 

I really thought Elle Fanning did a good job and I would like to see her again and see how she's doing. I remember a cute behind-the-scenes photo of Matthew showing card tricks to Elle and the children from "The Boogeyman". I also remember him playing lightsaber fights with some kids from "P911".

 

It's a shame they killed off the character played by Ed Bernero's daughter. I liked her.

 

I know I've said it before, but I'd still love to see Dr. Kimura come back for an appearance. I'd like to see her asking Reid how his lungs are doing and/or if he's had headaches or any residual side effects from the anthrax.

 

I would sort of like to see whatever became of Lila Archer. Maybe Reid can comment that she's moved on and is getting married or something. I doubt they could get Amber Heard back on the show now. I don't know much about her personality, but I know in the behind-the-scenes stuff she acted like she thought she was too cool to be around Matthew (but maybe that was just how I perceived it).

 

And I'd like to see how Jessica Brooks is doing. We never hear about her now, even though she's probably the primary caretaker for Jack when Hotch is away.

[Wilowy]

A lot of your choices are mine too, zannej. I've long expressed that it would be cool to see Dr. Kimora again, and scroll up for a mini-huzzah to Jessica. :)

[Sharpie66]

Watching The Popular Kids right now. I love that the actor playing the deputy sheriff here turns up five years later as the unsub in Corazon. I am sure there are other instances of repeat actors playing different chacters, but I can't think of any offhand.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

They actually showed that episode on A & E yesterday, and t made me wonder what poor unsung Alex would have thought of Elle, since she never rolled her eyes at Reid either. I'm big with the Blake love anyway,and it might be just another sign of the kind of weirdo I am, but appreciation of Spencer is a major plus in my book. :-)

[idiotwaltz]

 

it made me wonder what poor unsung Alex would have thought of Elle, since she never rolled her eyes at Reid either.

 

I'm rewatching S1 and it really strikes me how kind Elle is to Reid, such as when he fails his re-certification, Gideon is all, "He can take it again in 2 weeks," and Elle goes, "Yeah, but he'll be embarrassed about it, so let's not mention it" to Gideon and Morgan (who gives him a whistle). Awww. I love the Elle/Reid friendship. 

[zannej]

I think that one of the things that made the Elle/Reid friendship work is that Lola and Matthew were good friends. Lola actually took Matthew out to dinner while filming the pilot and introduced him to Paget. I think that Matthew and Lola may still be keeping in touch. I really did get a "big sister" vibe from Elle toward Reid. And I loved the bit in "Aftermath" when Reid went back to check on Elle and offered to walk her to the car to get her purse. He was worried about her and wanted to make her feel safe. 

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah Matthew and Lola still keep in touch and are Facebook friends and follow each other on Twitter. Lola has said in the oast that Matthew is the only cast member she stays in touch with.

Yes, the very good Reid and Elle scenes in Aftermath is the main reason I love that episode so much.

[JMO]

Physics magic.  It's one of my favorite scenes of the whole series.  Which tells me that I don't really care if it's a show about profilers (which probably belongs in 'unpopular opinions').  I just love the characters.

[mstaken]

I love that a dark show about the very most warped homicidal maniacs on the planet can inexplicably put me in such a good mood...admittedly, no non-PTV-ers could possibly understand why :)

 

I love the underlying premise that intelligence, insight, determination and courage can help to eradicate evil more effectively than weapons and pure brawn.

 

I love that there's just enough characterization to stimulate our imaginations and allow for interesting fanwanking and multiple valid interpretations of who these people are and what makes them tick :) (This is the surprisingly awesome silver lining to many of the characters being so vaguely defined and underdeveloped!) 

 

While some of the 'look, they're FAMILY!!!!' stuff is heavyhanded and even unconvincing for me, I do love that these people genuinely *like* each other. CM's subject matter provides enough darkness and angst without having our team hate each other, you know?! While I'm all for minor, organic intra-team conflict, the fact that they genuinely enjoy each other's company and get along makes it so much more enjoyable for me to visit with this team for an hour a week. (Or, in my case, for a couple of hours per DAY!) 

 

As rambled about before, I really love the quotes and the way the actors read them. 

 

I love the facts and statistics and the psychological insights, many of which apply quite well to those of us who AREN'T serial killers :) 

 

I love that the show allowed me to fall in love with the acting of JM, Paget Brewster, MGG and others to the point where I'll now always seek out their non-CM projects. 

[zannej]

I saw a rerun of "Poison" yesterday. I really like how they were looking at photos on paper and that they had to go talk to people and do some legwork. I like how they went through the process of learning more about the victims and that we didn't know any more than they did so we discovered what was happening as it went along. I loved how the team members sat together and brainstormed over things and there were equal contributions as they examined "Ok, this happened, so what does that mean?" Although I had to laugh at the assumption that a "severely diabetic" person would not eat sugared candy. Diabetics do indulge from time to time and if the diabetic woman was having low blood sugar she might have eaten a candy. But it was based on Reid's assumption that the diabetic woman would not eat the candy. Even if he had been wrong about that, it still led to the right answer. I also noticed that Matthew had a bad cold in that one. I loved how Hotch got to sit with the unsub and talk to him and brought out his business card showing that he was a lawyer. 

 

It was also interesting because the victims were people who had essentially screwed the unsub over so in some ways you could understand why he was pissed off, but at the same time, it was clear that he went beyond any sympathy by poisoning innocent people and the victims in the end didn't come off as horrible people-- they just seemed like normal people. Garcia was more toned down and her banter with Morgan seemed more natural.

 

I don't know why, but I still remember an episode-- I think "Memoriam" where Garcia said "but I do give good phone" and Hotch was standing near her. The look on Hotch's face was priceless.

Edited June 24, 2014 by zannej

[idiotwaltz]

Just saw a rerun of Riding the Lightning, which makes me cry every single time.  CTV too in Canada is showing reruns of S1 every weeknight and I've been following them religiously. I'd forgotten how different the show used to be, both in terms of the writing and pacing and atmosphere of it all. There's this weird darkness to S1 that can't be found in later seasons, though perhaps it's just my TV (my TV at the moment is one of those old tube TVs from 1990). The cases feel creepier even though there's not as much violence on screen and the stories seem more layered; if there are emotional moments, they don't feel as forced or emotionally manipulative as they do in recent seasons. The show really got some excellent performances out of the guest stars in Riding the Lightning, from Sarah Jean and Jacob Dawes to the warden to the father at the end who knew what Morgan and Elle wanted and was relieved and grateful when they let it go. I used to love JJ in the first few seasons, even more than Emily (shocker, right?) and S1 reminds me why. There was also less Garcia and the right amount of "are you a parent? then take!it!personally!" without going totally overboard. 

 

I love Seasons 2 to 7 too (Season 6 less than the others), but Season 1 has a special place in my heart. 

Edited June 28, 2014 by Willowy

[Wilowy]

Here's the place to lay down your specific ideas and thoughts about Old School CM versus Post Season Five CM. What hasn't worked for you after the shift, and what (if anything) is even better? Have at it! 

[Wilowy]

Beginning to veer back towards "Oh the old way was so much better" in here. Let's remember this is The Love Thread, not the thread for criticism of the show's current path. We can discuss how much we love something without making unfavorable comparisons. I've created a "Criminal Minds: Then and Now" thread to specifically talk about the comparisons we all love. Or hate. Or hate to love.

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/9921-criminal-minds-then-and-now/#entry161451

[idiotwaltz]

Thanks for making this thread! I was hunting through the boards for something similar and now I can finally get out my critical googles and overanalyze the show.

 

A few points:

 

1. In my head, the show is split into three separate periods: S1, S2 to S5, S6 and onwards. The new, jazzed up themesong is really what marks the difference for me. I hated it then but I barely notice it anymore.

 

2. I really enjoyed early-season JJ. For me, it was after she had Henry that her storylines became repetitive and she didn't have much to do. The she came back as a profiler and it just never sat right with me, especially after scenes like the one in Birthright where she talks about how she liked her job and it was an important one. Of course, people change, and if she were a real person I'd be totally cheering her on, but as a fictional character she just became less interesting to me. 

 

3. On a super shallow front, I do like Rossi's suits a lot more in the later seasons. His brown jacket and red tie combo in About Face would've driven Tim Gunn to a psychotic break from the ugliness of it all. 

 

4.  Starting S5 or so, the show started going for the gory violence and the torture porn, which WORKS, because what's not scary about close-up shots of severed heads or a person being turned into a marionette and forced into unnatural positions until you could hear their joints pop (my skin crawls as I'm writing about this)? In S1 and S2, they really did set the mood with camera shots and music, not so much in-your-face violence. It was a bit more understated and effective, IMO. 

 

5. The UNSUBS seemed to be more grounded in reality, which is ironic considering how many of them are delusional psychopaths, but seriously? The whole "three fates" Kevin-from-the-Office UNSUB and then the reincarnation-by-way-of-maggots UNSUB and Camryn Manheim and her twins. I enjoyed Gabby as well as The Edge of Winter because the crimes were way less over the top and actually seem like they just might happen in real life. 

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmmm....

 

1. Overall the stories were more engaging in the first four seasons. There are plenty of turkeys in seasons one through four, and there are plenty of episodes I like post season five, but it's more of an overall tone to the stories, and what I am inspired to rewatch when I have Criminal Minds DVD marathons. There are a few select episodes from season eight I rewatch, and the occasional from season six, but the vast majority of the time I rewatch later episodes, it is from season seven. And that is entirely driven by the change in writing and showrunners in my opinion. They brought in people in both arena who just weren't as competent as the previous crew and I just don't particularly like their vision most of the time. Season seven was the exception for me, but it honestly did go downhill for me.

 

2. It's hard to quantify, but it's almost like there is a candy coated sheen on the later shows. And I mean this in terms of both story and production values. The earlier episodes had starker, more neutral colors, and sometimes for me, it seems like a lot of the later episodes have some sort of filter that makes everything look a bit softer.

 

3. This is compounded by the rise in personal stories. It's not like I never liked the personal stories in earlier episodes. Those tidbits are often my favorite part of the episode. But they felt more natural and less shoe horned. Most of the personal stories and interactions arose organically from the case at hand and conversations at work, and didn't feel like they were put in there to give some sort of "family" moment. 

 

4. The personal stories were also more of a darker tone. They often dealt with the team grappling with the darkness of their job. It felt real. It felt authentic. Now it just feels cheesy. I used to have my own thoughts in the earlier episodes that they were a family, but since Erica has come on board and made it obvious by shoving it down our throats, I actively resist all attempts to say or act like they are a family. If I worked with people like that (I mean Penelope and her ridiculousness), I would run in the other direction.

 

5. Back in the day, the FBI did appear to follow the law more in that they secured warrants for searches, some stuff like HIPAA was off limits, and they felt like a real law enforcement agency. Now, in the course of saving time I guess (since they show much more unsub these days than team actually profiling), Penelope hits some magic keys and pulls up information (some of it illegally obtained through illegal hacking, and some of it that just plain wouldn't exist on the Internet in that form) that magically points them to the unsub. It's gotten sort of ridiculous, and I wish the show would remind people that this is an actual law enforcement agency and they aren't above the law. In the same regard, stop all those STUPID stories about the BAU going rogue to "protect one of their own." It's not realistic, and many of them would likely have been fired if they did some of that stuff in the real world. 

 

6. The one thing that I do think is better is Reid's hair. I prefer it short, and with the exception of season eight, so far his post season five (well really post boyband) hair has looked amazing. I hope he keeps it that way, but I have a feeling season 10 is going to be back to the messy rat's nest that was season eight. *sighs*

 

7. Overall, even though Criminal Minds is still appointment TV for me, I can't say there is much about the post season five shift that is BETTER than the early days, particularly in regards to the quality of the storytelling. It just isn't there for me, and without some miraculous change in behind the scenes talent, I don't know if it will ever get back to where it used to be. Probably not at this point. *sighs*

[mstaken]

I love and generally agree with everyone's answers so far :)

 

In retrospect, I think for me some of my problems with the show where there from the outset but just became more pronounced as the seasons wore on while some of what I loved most seemed to fade a bit. They always lingered a tad too much on torture porn for my taste, but that just became more and more evident.  And character definition and the development of intra-team relationships was never exactly their forte, IMO, but that became a lot more problematic later on.

 

One of the most unfortunate changes for me occurred when the show all but dropped the idea that the team members had different niches and specialties and instead made them all interchangeably awesome and perfectly knowledgeable in pretty much every single area. It was around then that their personalities and relationships with one another started to feel blandly, flatly interchangeable as well. I agree completely with those who feel there was more subtlety AND more depth and poignancy to team interactions in earlier seasons, while attempts to hammer us over our collective heads with cheesy 'family' scenes have usually felt forced and artificial to me. Ironically, despite technically focusing a lot more on the characters' personal lives in post-S4 seasons, I don't feel like I've actually gotten any additional insights into who they are. This show has an unfortunate knack for technically giving people a lot more screen time without deepening their characters in any way or revealing anything new at all about the characters' strengths, weaknesses, dreams, goals, interests, passions, motivations, etc. I actually found most of the BAU members a lot more compelling when the show subtly hinted at underlying layers rather than seeming to reveal that most of them aren't nearly as complex or interesting as I'd hoped!   

 

By the way, I'm not sure that I think of post-S5 as the 'later seasons'; for me, S1-S4 were CM's golden years (though I actually have mixed feelings about parts of S2), while S5 represented a really sharp drop off from the seasons that preceded it. I'm always unhappily surprised all over again by how few S5 episodes I really love, how the decision to do something Very Dramatic that would make the already grim and somber Hotch even more deeply depressed doesn't make the show more enjoyable for me, how odd the 'Morgan's in charge now...well, kind of' dynamic feels for me and, oh yeah, how deeply I hate Reid's S5 hair ;) I keep wondering why someone from the highly image conscious FBI doesn't suggest that he chop it off or at least tame it a bit.

 

Like Forever Alone, S7 is a happy exception to my general meh-ness on later seasons. There's just this certain type of energy that I find really engaging, as if the writers and (most of) the actors were reinvigorated. I think there's a lot more profiling than most give it credit for, and many of the cases/mysteries happen to be among my favorites. It has some definite skip-worthy missteps, but IMO so did even my beloved S1-S4. And I totally get why JJ's return was a disappointment to those who liked her, but for me she was always cold and snotty and dull, so the fact that she was now colder, snottier and duller didn't do much to mar my enjoyment of the season overall. I actually loved post-return, compensating-to-make-up-for-what-she-missed Prentiss (another unpopular opinion, I suspect!), thought Reid and Rossi had some great stuff this season, and loved getting to see Hotch/TG actually SMILE more than just once or twice a year for the first time in about four or five seasons! (Just to be clear, I have no interest in seeing Hotch as some sort of carefree, happy-go-lucky jokester, and I absolutely loved Hotch in the earlier seasons----I just think they made him so overly, relentlessly somber and flat for so long that it was starting to feel infectiously depressing to me.)

 

My (and Forever Alone's!) beloved S7 aside, though, I agree that there's a depressingly large gap in quality---or at least in my subjective enjoyment---between the show's first four seasons and the more recent ones. As you guys have noted, it's mostly a difference in tone and atmosphere...and the fact that they became less concerned with carefully plotted psychological suspense and more into sensationalist torture porn and general grossness.  

Edited June 29, 2014 by mstaken

[idiotwaltz]

 

2. It's hard to quantify, but it's almost like there is a candy coated sheen on the later shows. And I mean this in terms of both story and production values. The earlier episodes had starker, more neutral colors, and sometimes for me, it seems like a lot of the later episodes have some sort of filter that makes everything look a bit softer.

 

Yes, I totally get what you mean. The earlier seasons had a grittier feel to them, and the show felt more like a psychological thriller whereas in the later seasons, it's all music and gore and knocking people down (not that Morgan didn't do a lot of knocking back in the day) and it's more like watching a slasher movie/action hero flick than a psychological thriller. There's also a lot more "happy endings" with the team standing around looking at the lives they've saved while emotional music that emotes! play in the background (S5 falls into this too - Cradle to Grave? Ugh - so mstaken's right about the classification of the seasons, though I give Season 5 an immediate pass for Emily's hair). 

 

 

In the same regard, stop all those STUPID stories about the BAU going rogue to "protect one of their own." It's not realistic, and many of them would likely have been fired if they did some of that stuff in the real world.

 

In the real world, who would spend their precious little time off work hanging out with all of their co-workers? 

[Danielg342]

For me, there was always two things that CM did well throughout its run- single episode writing and hiring great actors. Having people like Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Joe Mantegna, Kirsten Vangsness (the faults with Garcia is in the writing, not the acting) and Matthew Gray Gubler on board (and Shemar Moore, though I seem to be voted down on this one), as well as wonderful guest stars like Keith Carradine, Gavin Rossdale, C. Thomas Howell, Mitch Pillegi and Jonathan Frakes helps detract from the lack of depth in the writing, because at least the acting gives it that depth. Of course, this begs the question about how great the show could have been if the writing was anywhere near the quality of its acting, but I digress.

 

As far as the differences between the eras of the show, I tend to group it this way:

 

Era 1: S1-S2.01

Era 2: S2.02-S3.02

Era 3: S3.03-S3.05

Era 4: S3.06-S6.01

Era 5: S6.02-S6.18

Era 6: S6.19-S6.24

Era 7: S7.01-S7.24

Era 8: S8.01-S8.10

Era 9: S8.11-S9.24

Era 10: S10-Present

 

Obviously I can't comment on Era 10 because it hasn't aired yet, but the rest I'll touch upon. Era 1 might not have produced the absolute "best" episodes, but it was CM at its most quintessential, where you had the most profiling, the most mystery building, the most twists and the best writing. It was obvious they were still working on a few quirks- such as who each character was (Morgan, for instance, went from having a crew cut and dress shirts to a bald head, leather jackets and muscle shirts, no doubt to emphasize how "tough" he was)- but if anyone really wanted to know what CM is supposed to be like, I'd point them in the direction of Era 1.

 

Era 2 was a lot like Era 1, though it was more personal (for the team) and I think this is where some of the show's later bad habits started to develop. Though S2 itself didn't end with a cliffhanger, we did get two of them during the year- "The Big Game/Revelations" and "No Way Out"- as well as the frustrating situation where a character received the most definition only upon their departing (Elle Greenaway). Although I think both situations were handled well, it'd be an example of the lazy writing we'd see later in the show, because the showrunners have quite consistently shown that, realistically, the only storyline they can do with our characters is to put them in peril, instead of working on developing their backgrounds and letting conflicts arise organically. Also, the last episode of this Era- Episode 3.02, "In Name and Blood"- was the very first episode where the UnSub was known to the audience before the team knew who he was (I know "The Last Word" showed us the Mill Creek Killer at the beginning, but that same episode hid the Hollow Man until the last moment, and I believe that happened by design). Joe Smith was done pretty well by Ed Cibrian and the episode was good, but as soon as this cat was let out of the bag the show couldn't later resist going to this well, and I think that's what made it suffer later. I also think this Era was Mandy Patinkin's finest hour, although I believe his ending was botched (though, admittedly, he didn't help matters much).

 

Era 3 might only be three episodes long, but those three are among my favourites (especially "Seven Seconds"). It showed the value of a streamlined team, which, for the first time was actually cohesive and working as a unit. It also showed that when the writers have to worry less about giving screen time to the actors they can write better cases, meaning that, perhaps the show shouldn't have been so quick to replace Patinkin. It's what I hope the show will do for Season 10, although I doubt they'll want to continue a show with only one female lead.

 

Era 4 I think saw the team at its most cohesive, with the best chemistry and the best defined "roles". I say "roles" because even though the team members didn't have technical roles (aside from JJ, Hotch and Garcia), in this era you hardly ever saw a character stepping on another's toes, like you do now. I will admit, this was also the era where Garcia's "magical computer" got used way too often, but I thought it was more believable than it got in later seasons, and at least in "Haunted" Garcia mentioned that some of the searches she makes are illegal. This was also the era that had "Zoe's Reprise", my least favourite episode ever, only because I loved Zoe Hawkes (and Amy Davidson) so much and felt the show needlessly killed off a character that could have been wonderful in later years. In any case, a lot of the cases were great as well and the show, as a whole, ran as well as it ever could have run. It's a pity we didn't get three whole seasons out of this, because the show at this stage felt like they could run in this way for many more years to come. Alas, CBS had to ruin it with that spinoff...

 

Era 5 is when everything started to go downhill. The obvious first point is that they damaged the team, irreparably I think, by firing JJ and Prentiss. The first sign of trouble, though, was "JJ", the episode, where the team interrogated two frat boys- who should be easy to break- only to come up with absolutely nothing, with luck solving the episode in the end. Then we got Ashley Seaver, with the writers showing us what they thought of her by not having a name actor play her father. This was also the period where we had our first UnSub get away- Shane Wyland- as well as "25 to Life", otherwise known as the episode where Morgan really goes out of character. The highlight was the Prentiss spy arc, which I think gave the show an "exotic" feel even though it was poorly written. I think it should have been used to launch the spinoff, because the concept and the characters were well defined and provided a nice base from which to continue on.

 

Era 6 could have been like Era 3, but it was way too mopey and the quality was quite haphazard. I did enjoy seeing Ben Foster, though, but that was about it.

 

Era 7...well, I'll admit, I can't speak about it too much since I didn't see much of Season 7, because I kept hearing about how terrible the season was. I have managed to see a few episodes, and what I did see was all over the place. "Painless" was painful, "It Takes a Village..." had a great "feel" to it even though it seemed more like a campy action movie than a procedural, "Proof" featured an UnSub that was incredibly unbelievable, comically silly and was way too heavy on the "gorn" and "I Love You, Tommy Brown..." I thought had a great story but another comical UnSub and more proof that the show writers didn't know what to do with their characters- it was here that a fact about Morgan was deliberately contradicted, as "Elephant's Memory" told us that he had posters of the Chicago Bulls and yet in this episode Garcia emphatically states that Morgan hates basketball...which leads me to ask why he has posters of Jordan and Pippen in his childhood room. I also believe this same episode messed up the one truly good relationship the show had- Kevin Lynch and Penelope Garcia. This was also the era where JJ started to go downhill as a character, since she transformed almost instantly from a likeable, vulnerable media liaison to a super tough, "female Morgan" that is frankly unbelievable. Cook herself said this change was made because they didn't know what else to do with the liaison character, which is yet another example of poor writing- I can think of a million different stories with a liaison that the show never even thought to touch upon, something I think that is inexcusable.

 

Era 8 I think continued many of the faults of S7 at first- poorly defined team characteristics, gory stories and UnSubs, poor, comical case writing, hardly any mystery at all, the replacement of Prentiss with Alex Blake, who was poorly defined at this stage as a Mary Sue, and the introduction of the gimmicky "Replicator". As much as earlier seasons were examples of how procedurals should run, this era showed exactly how procedurals shouldn't run. I mean, really, just about every mistake you could make in a procedural was evident in this batch of episodes, one that I hope the show has decided to burn. Perhaps the only positive was that we got to see Reid actually in love. Which brings me to...

 

Era 9 and "Zugzwang". I would love to have grouped "Zugzwang" in with Era 8 because it more appropriately fits there. Although I thought the episode was good until the end, the end is what sealed it- the ending was unnecessarily cruel and denied us of a character that we really could have enjoyed for years to come and shown a side of Reid we'd never seen- him happily in love. Again, it's another example of the lack of creativity the writers have with the characters, thinking the only storylines they get is to cause them harm.

 

Fortunately "Zugzwang" was this era's only huge misstep, although there were quite a few other clunkers in here as well. I know I'm outvoted on this one but Episode 8.11, "Perennials", is one of my all-time favourites, because even though the maggots were gross, at least the UnSub- Willie Kestler- made a lot of sense with his actions. I also thought as Season 8 went on the writing and the cohesiveness got better, with Blake getting better defined and not being so much like a "Mary Sue". That said, "Broken" was way too "political" for my tastes, and the ultimate Replicator reveal was underwhelming, since they really resolved it in one episode and made a season's worth of clues worthless and meaningless. Season 9's two part premiere was way too strange, but "Final Shot" was excellent and most of the rest of the season was actually quite entertaining, even if few moments really were worthy of CM's "all-time lists". I also felt Season 9 was when Erica Messer came into her own as a showrunner, since it seemed like she finally knew what she was doing. Then came the finale and that tangled mess of a police conspiracy theory that was incredibly unrealistic, as well as the cringe-worthy attempt to pull at our heartstrings by putting yet another character in peril. I'm also sad to see Blake go, because I actually enjoyed her as a character by the time she was done. That all said, Season 9 was the first time in a long time where I said, "I can't wait for next year", so here's hoping CM doesn't ruin it.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Danielg342

[dusang]

In retrospect, I think for me some of my problems with the show where there from the outset but just became more pronounced as the seasons wore on while some of what I loved most seemed to fade a bit.

 

I totally agree.  For the most part, my viewing has been out of order, based on A&E Sunday afternoon mini-marathons and such, so it's hard for me to track changes through the seasons.  In later seasons the things that have bothered me the most are 1) torture porn and 2) an over-reliance on "team member in peril" or the "team member over-identifies" scenarios.  So it's surprising to me, even in this thread, to see how early all of those themes emerged in the series.

 

In the same regard, stop all those STUPID stories about the BAU going rogue to "protect one of their own." It's not realistic, and many of them would likely have been fired if they did some of that stuff in the real world.

 

Big agree.  All the "Strauss investigates the team" episodes were RIDICULOUS to me.  These people would have been fired or reassigned at least 8 years ago IRL.

[zannej]

There are some very good thoughts in here. I love the analysis. I wish I could concentrate enough to contribute, but things have been hectic. I do find the comments thus far to be insightful.

[ForeverAlone]

On occasion I liked the chats Erica introduced with the writers following their episodes (though she hasn't done them in two years). When done well and seriously with the right writer, it really did provide insight into the writers' thought processes. Probably the best one in my opinion was Breen after "Zugzwang" aired. It was enlightening to see why Breen made some of the choices he did, even if I grew to seriously dislike his choice of ending. Where most of the chats fell flat is because some of the writers clearly didn't want to be there and were likely forced to by Erica. It was obvious some of them had no desire to interact with fans or explain their creative choices and thoughts or answer thoughtful questions with thoughtful answers. So we got lame, flippant answers that told us nothing or wasted our time, or they were a bit rude, defensive and sarcastic in their answers.

[JMO]

 It was obvious some of them had no desire to interact with fans or explain their creative choices and thoughts or answer thoughtful questions with thoughtful answers. So we got lame, flippant answers that told us nothing or wasted our time, or they were a bit rude, defensive and sarcastic in their answers.

 

I think they were wise to put a stop to the chats, as so many of them were exactly as described above.  With few exceptions, they read like conversations with smart-mouthed teenagers  (no offense intended to the non-smart-mouthed teenager)  The chats with the cast weren't hostile, but they were equally uninformative, with responses tending to go for the quick laugh rather than answering a serious question.  Another misreading of the investment we viewers have in the show.  For me, it's better to avoid their social media, because I find I think more highly of them when I don't read it. (Fully recognizing the irony that I am using social media to express this opinion!)

Edited July 6, 2014 by JustMyOpinion

[zannej]

I remember that Ed was very tightlipped and did not like it when people took videos and such and posted it to social media. I remember Matthew filmed something to post online and was asking questions, but there were comments about whether or not it could be edited. Shortly after some of the videos were posted, they were removed. I think Ed or someone in the office wanted the videos taken down, even though they didn't show any spoilers or have anything bad.

 

I also remember that the initial chats were put through a particular website with a site runner who was really a hellbeast (even according to her own admins). Gubler did one chat with her and never wanted to do one again (because she was extremely rude to people when he was at the chat). She later trashtalked Matthew on Twitter but deleted the messages. She also disliked Shemar (I don't know if it was because he refused to do chats or if he refused to do chats bc she was a bitch) I don't know why Ed liked her so much, but I would say probably the ONLY good thing to come of Ed leaving was that the hellbeast no longer had a stanglehold on the information coming out. The bad thing is that sometimes too much information comes out. I liked how Ed would say that he hoped we would like it and he seriously listened to feedback-- or at least he made the fans believe that he was taking it seriously. He would ask what was being done right and what should change and that they would consider things. Erica's approach is to tell us that everything is fantastic and we are absolutely going to LOVE the episodes and feed us all sorts of hype. When things aren't well-received she says some things to placate fans, but never fully admits that things weren't being done right. She does not make me feel as if they are truly listening to the fans and they really do seem dismissive a lot of the time.

[tchaikca]

Lot of good pints here, and a lot I agree with. The two things that I really miss from "old school" CM....are the focus on the victims (and their families) more than the unsub. (One of the more powerful scenes for me was the scene with the parents in Lucky, where the mom and dad are really struggling to deal with their daughters death, and having not seen her properly in the morgue). There are plenty of other examples, but that's one of the ones that really stuck with me. The other thing I miss is the team working with cops and FBI filed officers. I love some of the episodes where the local cops are used really well < plus...Blackwolf>, the OCD cop who cracks the homeless people disappearing, etc. I fell like lately, even if they do manage to keep the unsub secret, we don't see much actual profiling, no co-operation with local cops, and it bothers me that the team is frequently the ones bursting in to catch the unsub....when that used to be the exception.

[SSAHotchner]

Lot of good pints here, and a lot I agree with. The two things that I really miss from "old school" CM....are the focus on the victims (and their families) more than the unsub. (One of the more powerful scenes for me was the scene with the parents in Lucky, where the mom and dad are really struggling to deal with their daughters death, and having not seen her properly in the morgue). There are plenty of other examples, but that's one of the ones that really stuck with me. The other thing I miss is the team working with cops and FBI filed officers. I love some of the episodes where the local cops are used really well < plus...Blackwolf>, the OCD cop who cracks the homeless people disappearing, etc. I fell like lately, even if they do manage to keep the unsub secret, we don't see much actual profiling, no co-operation with local cops, and it bothers me that the team is frequently the ones bursting in to catch the unsub....when that used to be the exception.

I agree. There were some really good local cops. Offhand, I'm thinking about the woman in Aftermath, the detective in Fear and Loathing, and the chief and the female detective in LDSK to name a few. I'd rather have the writers be respectful of local law enforcement than write the stereotypical bumbling cop who needs the assistance of someone with higher intelligence to solve the case.

[Wilowy]

Hotch always seems to be very sensitive to that too - to making sure they have a respectful working relationship with local law. JJ has also been the apologist for the team being dismissive at times. 

[Dionysa]

Yes, John Blackwolf was awesome, as was the guy who ended up being Hank on Breaking Bad. I also liked the OCD guy. 

[zannej]

I still remember an episode where the team needed to look at the case files and the cops felt it would be stepping on their toes-- saying "but we already investigated that thoroughly" so JJ was the one who was sent to ask. She told the cop she knew that they'd already done a thorough job but that "these guys aren't going to let me do anything" and basically pretended that she wanted to look at them so she could at least appear busy or something and the cop felt sorry for her so he gave her the files.

 

I almost forgot about the OCD cop. I really liked him.

[JMO]

Zaneej wrote:

 

 JJ was the one who was sent to ask. She told the cop she knew that they'd already done a thorough job but that "these guys aren't going to let me do anything" and basically pretended that she wanted to look at them so she could at least appear busy or something and the cop felt sorry for her so he gave her the files.

 

 

That's the JJ I loved. She had the smarts to review the files, and  the people skills to get them to allow her to do so.  She knew how to use her soft side to the whole team's advantage.  Loved her look back at Hotch after that exchange with the detective, too----it was very representative of the unique relationship she had with him.  That JJ was so well rounded, compared with the present one, who is all hard angles. both functionally and physically.  And, as much as I dwell on her relationship with Reid, I think I might miss her relationship with Hotch just as much.

[Dionysa]

I miss Reid's willingness to call everybody on their shit and be a smartass. Before, he was all "I totally saved your life... and I think they even got it on tape!" and "Haven't you heard? Morgan likes to 'vibe' it." and "Can't at least ONE of you look like you're going to see me again?"

 

Now he just takes it and shuts up. 

[Danielg342]

I wonder, with all the guest stars CM is able to bring in, why hasn't one played a detective, a sheriff or a simple police officer? I guess it's just not "sexy" enough, although I think it could be meaty if it's done right.

 

At the other end, why not a special guest star playing the victim the team rescues? That would be a meaty role, for sure.

 

I just wish the producers would think outside of the box more often and not always have these high profile guests be the bad guys.

[Wilowy]

Eva LaRue was a cop, so was Jim Beaver, Gina Torres, Ernie Hudson, Keith Szarabasjka, Eric Close, and Paul Michael Glaser, who also directed. I'm sure there are more too. :)

[ForeverAlone]

Some of these names are more recognizable than others, but they aren't complete unknowns either.

Melissa Leo-cop, Amy Madigan,-victim, Meschach Taylor-friend, Beth Riesgraf-love interest, Jane Lynch-mom, Kate Jackson-mom, Mel Harris- Congressional delegate, Sebastian Roche-friend/colleague, Tobin Bell, Adrienne Barbeau, Ken Olin, Robert Newman-cop (if you watched Guiding Light), Elle Fanning-victim, Cybill Sheperd-mother, Lolita Davidovich-victim's mom, Bess Armstrong- victim's mother, Michael Biehn-cop, Robert Englund-cop, Ann Cusack-victim's mom, Evan Peters-victim (though he wasn't well known at the time of his guest appearance), Robert Davi- cop.

But on further reflection, I realize you were only talking about LEOs and victims and not other guest roles that weren't unsubs. Oops for going overboard. :) :) :)

But I get your overall point as well, and agree with it, because the unsub roles are more likely to be meatier than others.

Edited July 14, 2014 by ForeverAlone

[Danielg342]

Totally forgot some of those appearances, although I still don't think it happens often enough.

 

I had a thought coming across an old clip of "The Popular Kids", where Morgan tackles Reid and the UnSub. It's one of my favourite scenes, but it also shows how the series has changed- in the early years, Season One in particular, you had the profilers make "predictions" about the UnSub and his character, with some being bold. They tended to border on the psychic, and in cases like "The Popular Kids" or "The Crossing" (where the woman was coached about what would happen to her if she got kidnapped, which she did) it unnecessarily put the lives of civilians and agents in danger. I doubt if they occurred in real life that the FBI would be pleased- even if you think the UnSub's got a lousy shot, that's not something you take a chance on- so I'm kind of glad they moved away from that in later years, even though the scenes were entertaining. Still, given the substitute has been gorn and other contrivances, I'm not convinced it's much of an improvement.

[zannej]

It seems that as they've made JJ more assertive, they made Reid more mousy. 

 

Aside from the prank war with Morgan and being cheesed at the ladies after girls night out, Reid has become somewhat of a doormat. I miss when there was some give and take. This is the guy that said "You kick like a 9-year-old girl" to Hotch. I'm glad "Popular Kids" was mentioned because I love how Reid successfully ducked and managed to start to free himself from the unsub before he was tackled by Morgan.

 

And Reid wrestled a gun away from Maggie and tried to wrestle one from Teddy. He was shown as a bit more physically capable. I can't tell you how much it bugged me in Zugzwang when he just sat there doing nothing when he could have tried to get the gun away. When she leaned down to kiss him, it would have been the perfect opportunity to strike. I know he was worried that Maeve would get hit, but he's not *that* much of a wuss that he couldn't have fought someone as small as Diane. Even if he had to pick up the chair and thwack her with it, I have no problem believing that Reid would do that to protect the woman he loved. I was also annoyed that he didn't realize that Diane would be upset that he was willing to trade his life for Maeves. If he was on the lying train, he could have just told her that it was his job to protect people and that it was his obligation to protect people. It might not have changed the outcome, but it would have made more sense than what happened. But then, it was clear that the writer didn't think everything through since the director had to ask him questions about plot about things that didn't make sense.