Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[MCatry]

Figures for Episode 22 - Protection

 

JJ 16 m and 31 sec
Unsub and victims 14 m and 39 sec
Morgan 12 m and 6 sec
Kate 8 m and 44 sec
Rossi 8 m and 1 sec
Reid 6 m and 41 sec
Hotch 5 m and 10 sec
Garcia 4 m and 25 sec
Meg and Friend 1 m and 31 sec

[zannej]

The thing is, Matthew was not the one who initially pushed for Maeve to die. He wanted Reid to get a girlfriend and it was the writers who wanted to kill her off, but he said if they were going to do that, then it had to be the most tragic way possible. He was being the story the way it was pitched to him, but then they deviated and he wasn't happy with what they did. So he just said he supported something, he didn't actually initiate the idea. From what I understand, it was AJ who initially came up with the idea of JJ becoming a profiler and being tougher and that her return was contingent on the changes made to her character (but I could be wrong). But, she's not a writer, and the showrunners could have refused or not gone as overboard as they did with the "meaner and leaner" JJ. If they had been better writers, it could have worked out.

 

That said, I don't think anyone should be totally hating on the actors for the decisions, even if they don't like that the actors may have pushed for things or agreed to things since the showrunner ultimately has veto power.

 

I don't even bother with trying to read Facebook stuff. There are more idiots than you can shake a stick at over there.

Edited May 2, 2015 by zannej

[zannej]

Wow. I didn't realize that JJ had that much more screentime. I also didn't realize that Hotch had a full 5 minutes. LOL.

[MCatry]

Wow. I didn't realize that JJ had that much more screentime. I also didn't realize that Hotch had a full 5 minutes. LOL.

I think for Hotch the explanation is that he was there, sitting at a table, but not doing much. Hence, it looked as if he wasn't there at all.

And JJ got the pretty long interviews, plus the action scene, plus the ridiculous jogging/running scene. That sums up a lot...

[SSAHotchner]

Thanks, MCatry. You should put that out on Twitter for all those writers who don't think the screen time for the team is unbalanced.

[Russet29]

To once again play the devil's advocate, we don't now the stats from several episodes before this past one. I'm sure if you average out the screen time per character for the entire season you'll find that JJ is in the upper half, but it's always gonna appear worse if we only focus on JJ-heavy episodes. Let's remember we were blessed with two heavy Hotch episodes the past two weeks before this one. I'm sure his average screen time dwarfed that of everyone else's in those two.

[spinner33]

Thanks, MCatry! It's very illuminating when you see the screen time broken down this way! It would be interesting to see comparisons between screen time and ratings for particular episodes.

So I have to think the actors have noticed this disparity too. Wonder how that plays? Wonder if it will come up during contract negotiations? Wonder what the boys are doing with their free time? Making indie movies. Writing their memoirs. Doing stomach crunches and bench pressing interns.

[MCatry]

To once again play the devil's advocate, we don't now the stats from several episodes before this past one. I'm sure if you average out the screen time per character for the entire season you'll find that JJ is in the upper half, but it's always gonna appear worse if we only focus on JJ-heavy episodes. Let's remember we were blessed with two heavy Hotch episodes the past two weeks before this one. I'm sure his average screen time dwarfed that of everyone else's in those two.

I am working on it! Because I also think it is unfair for JJ. Some other fans seems convinced that there was a lot of Kate too along those episodes, and I am trying to find out. But since counting was the only way I would watch this episode #22, that came out yesterday. I will post the data for the earlier episodes, because I think it would be better if I collect the data in order, and I've done several ones this year, but I am missing someone's in between.

It would be interesting to see comparisons between screen time and ratings for particular episodes.

Well, I don't think that correlation would work, because if you are included in the live ratings there was no way to anticipate who would have more screen time, and hence you wouldn't be able to decide if you watch it or not. Maybe with the live+7, but that would also be tricky because it doesn't take into account who FFW an episode, nor who replayed over and over again.

In any case, and based on the other episodes that I counted, if there is one big elephant in the room is the unsub.

Edited May 2, 2015 by MCatry

[MCatry]

Thanks, MCatry. You should put that out on Twitter for all those writers who don't think the screen time for the team is unbalanced.

Oh, they KNOW.

They just won't accept that any of us would tell them wrong. Hence, they will insist that they were right, from the beginning to the end of times.

You cannot reason with people that is not wiling to accept their own mistakes.

[Guesswht]

i'd want to know how much screen time Kate had in ep. 1,3,8,10,16,17

I think she had more than anyone else.

 

we don't now the stats from several episodes before this past one. I'm sure if you average out the screen time per character for the entire season you'll find that JJ is in the upper half, but it's always gonna appear worse if we only focus on JJ-heavy episodes.

!!!!

 

 

 

-.-

[Old Dog]

I would lay good money out that if the screen time was done for the whole of Season 10, JJ would easily come out on top, although, she has been written so much more sympathetically than in Season 9 so it has not been so objectionable. Nonetheless, despite some Hotch heavy episodes of late, I suspect that he, Reid and Rossi will come out at the bottom of the list and they are why I watch and the characters I want to see, especially Reid who has had a fairly light season. Again.

[spinner33]

That's for sure, that quantity does not equal quality!  There's a difference between Reid connecting previous similar cases with the current MO, or the rationale behind a particular type of unsub they've encountered before, versus him talking about eviler twins, or praying mantis female mating habits.  When they make him look like an imbecile so that the Golden Gopher can sneer and roll her eyes, that's not quality screen time.   

 

I'm horrible with numbers, so thanks a million to qwerty and MCatry for checking into these things! =) 

[Russet29]

So I started counting the screen time in Breath Play a few weeks ago in response to people on social media claiming that JLH had completely taken over the show, but then life got in the way and I forgot about it. I just finished it and holy unsub Batman! First of all let me say my hat is off to you MCatry. This a chore to do for one episode let alone several. Also, I probably count the time a bit differently but I stayed consistent with how I counted it throughout the episode. I counted the unsub, his family, and the victims all together because I think we can agree that we wish to see the least of that group. It also made my life easier to just group them in together.

 

Unsub/Family/Victims-15:00
Garcia-5:24
Hotch-5:35
JJ-5:06
Kate-11:43
Morgan-6:27
Reid-5:51
Rossi-6:53

 

I may do this for Lockdown because it was also a Kate-heavy episode. I'm thinking about counting how many "breakthroughs" each character makes about the unsub/profile in a given episode.

[Guesswht]

So I started counting the screen time in Breath Play a few weeks ago in response to people on social media claiming that JLH had completely taken over the show, but then life got in the way and I forgot about it. I just finished it and holy unsub Batman! First of all let me say my hat is off to you MCatry. This a chore to do for one episode let alone several. Also, I probably count the time a bit differently but I stayed consistent with how I counted it throughout the episode. I counted the unsub, his family, and the victims all together because I think we can agree that we wish to see the least of that group. It also made my life easier to just group them in together.

 

Unsub/Family/Victims-15:00

Garcia-5:24

Hotch-5:35

JJ-5:06

Kate-11:43

Morgan-6:27

Reid-5:51

Rossi-6:53

 

I may do this for Lockdown because it was also a Kate-heavy episode. I'm thinking about counting how many "breakthroughs" each character makes about the unsub/profile in a given episode.

This is just sad.

JLH had completely taken over the show. :(

I pray that she goes away.

 

Thank you for being fair to JJ. The hate she gets truly breaks my heart sometimes... In the (awful) Kate-centric eps she gets almost no screen time and half of the season has been centered on Kate.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Guesswht

[MCatry]

Here are the figures for the first 4 episodes

 

Season 10 episode 1
Kate 23 minutes and 36 seconds
JJ 13 minutes and 26 seconds
Hotch 13 minutes and 6 seconds
Rossi 12 minutes and 13 seconds
Unsubs 9 minutes and 49 seconds
Morgan 9 minutes and 3 seconds
Reid 7 minutes and 43 seconds
Garcia 5 minutes and 41 seconds

 

Season 10 episode 2
Garcia 14 minutes and 40 seconds
Unsubs 12 minutes and 59 seconds
Morgan 12 minutes and 44 seconds
JJ 9 minutes and 2 seconds
Hotch 8 minutes and 28 seconds
Reid 7 minutes and 24 seconds
Kate  6 minutes and 28 seconds
Rossi 6 minutes and 14 seconds

 

Season 10 episode 3
Rossi 12 minutes and 32 seconds
Hotch 12 minutes and 13 seconds
Kate 10 minutes and 56 seconds
Unsubs 10 minutes and 32 seconds
Morgan 10 minutes and 26 seconds
JJ 10 minutes and 2 seconds
Reid 9 minutes and 22 seconds
Garcia 5 minutes and 16 seconds

 

Season 10 episode 4
unsub 15 minutes and 51 seconds
JJ 13 minutes and 15 seconds
Rossi 11 minutes and 14 seconds
Hotch 8 minutes and 49 seconds
Morgan 8 minutes and 36 seconds
Kate 7 minutes and 35 seconds
Reid 7 miunutes and 33 seconds
Garcia 4 minutes and 0 seconds

Edited May 3, 2015 by MCatry

[Guesswht]

Season 10 episode 1

Kate 23 minutes and 36 seconds

She had more screen time in one episode than Reid had during the whole season. The writers should see this. I knew this was going to happen when she joined the cast. I hope that "The Hunt" aka- The Kate Show gets good ratings somehow. I'm scared that the last episode (of the season) gets awful ratings and CM gets cancelled. No one wants the torture of watching 40 mins of her.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Guesswht

[ForeverAlone]

I think you need to take another look at those statistics, because outside of a couple of episodes (one of which introduced her as a character so it is not surprising she got a fair amount of focus), Kate has not had more screentime than most of the other characters. In no way has Jennifer taken over this show. For the most part, she is still treated like an ensemble player.

[Old Dog]

Introductory episodes for a new character really are acceptable. Jeanne Tripplehorn had a similar amount of screen time when she started in The Silencer. I still would bet that JJ has come out well on top as far as screen time in season 10 but unlike the appalling Season 9 I don't see that anyone has "dominated" this season. Of course, most of us would want to have seen more of Reid and Hotch who ought to have been used better.

[normasm]

So I started counting the screen time in Breath Play a few weeks ago in response to people on social media claiming that JLH had completely taken over the show, but then life got in the way and I forgot about it. I just finished it and holy unsub Batman! First of all let me say my hat is off to you MCatry. This a chore to do for one episode let alone several. Also, I probably count the time a bit differently but I stayed consistent with how I counted it throughout the episode. I counted the unsub, his family, and the victims all together because I think we can agree that we wish to see the least of that group. It also made my life easier to just group them in together.

 

Unsub/Family/Victims-15:00

Garcia-5:24

Hotch-5:35

JJ-5:06

Kate-11:43

Morgan-6:27

Reid-5:51

Rossi-6:53

 

I may do this for Lockdown because it was also a Kate-heavy episode. I'm thinking about counting how many "breakthroughs" each character makes about the unsub/profile in a given episode.

Russet, I'm not sure, but I think we should count Unsub time differently from victim time, unless they are exactly the same (we see the victimization and not much else about the victim). Sometimes, although it's rare, we profile the case through the victim, and it can be very interesting. For instance, in Nanny Dearest, we did not see a lot of the unsub directly, but saw a lot of his victims. We also saw a lot of his "trigger" victims, but that I would definitely lump in with the unsub. By the same token, in Mr. Scratch, when we see the victims hallucinating Mr. Scratch, that, to me is victim, not Unsub, because we aren't seeing the real unsub, and the murders aren't shown, we just see the victims reacting.

 

What do you guys think? Would it be better to count Unsub time as just what s/he actually does, even if we don't see him or her, plus any time we see him/her, and count victims separately unless they are in direct interaction with the Unsub?

[Russet29]

For Breath Play I lumped in victims with unsub because they featured in a lot of the same scenes together. Some examples: when he was on the phone with one of his victims, when a woman was laying in bed and he crept through her house, and when he was attacking the babysitter. I agree that Mr. Scratch and even Nanny Dearest were set up differently. In this episode almost every scene that showed the victims also showed the unsub.

 

Just to be clear I didn't run through the numbers for this particular episode to try and prove that JLH has taken over the show. If anything I was trying to disprove that notion, though it may not have worked out as I had planned. I've said before how much I like Kate. New characters tend to get more screen time than the veterans in order to allow the audience to get to know them. It should be noted that her screen time is a good indicator of what we might expect next year if JLH leaves and network/EM decide to replace her. My problem with that is I can't imagine liking a new character as much as I like Kate. She may not be my favorite but she has been integrated well and I appreciate a member of the team actually having a sense of humor.

[Old Dog]

How has MCatry done it in the stats for the first 4 episodes? Are the victims included there or is it purely the unsub? I think the unsub time should be shown separately as one of our biggest criticisms is that it is now the unsub show.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Old Dog

[MCatry]

Hi.

I did the same as Russet. Why? Because the whole point of this counting exercise is to determine how the screen time of team members is distributed along the episodes, and ultimately, the season. It all started back in the days of the infamous 200. That was the episode I counted first, and just to determine if it really was just about JJ. Under that premise, here's what I did (and I continue to do up to this day)

Any time any team member is on the screen is counted as in favour of that character. So, for instance, Rossi and Morgan are doing an interview with a victim/witness/relative/whatever, it is counted as time for both Morgan and Rossi, since they both are playing a part in the scene.

Any time I don't see any of the team members is counted as -unsub whereabouts- for me, meaning that these are minutes and seconds that are not dedicated to any member of the cast. It doesn't matter if its victims plus unsub, victims about to be attacked by that unsub, or just the unsub on her/his own. For the purpose of the exercise, it's basically time we don't get to see the cast members.

I am already working on a database that calculates the team screen time percentage per episode, which is another way to analyse why we may feel that one character dominates over another one. For instance, if a given episode had 19minutes of unsub, and 20 minutes of team time, if a character got about ten minutes of exposure it feels as an eternity, since it took away half of the time we saw the team, and in reality it took just a quarter of an episode.

Also, I already have a file in which all the screen times of individual characters is being collected. I will fill in some blanks along the week, because I have done several ones, but I am missing some episodes in the middle that I didn't watch at all.

It is still too early to determine who was the biggest loser in terms of screen time, since our perceptions are altered by so much time wasted on the unsubs and their victims.

[Old Dog]

I've said it before MCatry but you are a legend!

[MCatry]

So I started counting the screen time in Breath Play a few weeks ago in response to people on social media claiming that JLH had completely taken over the show, but then life got in the way and I forgot about it. I just finished it and holy unsub Batman! First of all let me say my hat is off to you MCatry. This a chore to do for one episode let alone several. Also, I probably count the time a bit differently but I stayed consistent with how I counted it throughout the episode. I counted the unsub, his family, and the victims all together because I think we can agree that we wish to see the least of that group. It also made my life easier to just group them in together.

 

Unsub/Family/Victims-15:00

Garcia-5:24

Hotch-5:35

JJ-5:06

Kate-11:43

Morgan-6:27

Reid-5:51

Rossi-6:53

 

I may do this for Lockdown because it was also a Kate-heavy episode. I'm thinking about counting how many "breakthroughs" each character makes about the unsub/profile in a given episode.

Hi!

Consistency is the key here! I am missing some episodes in the middle but I have most of the done already.

We both agree in terms of piling up the unsub-victim time. I will be posting the next bunch of episodes as soon as I get back home. I'm in the middle of a trip right now, waiting endlessly in assorted airports..

I've said it before MCatry but you are a legend!

More like an obsessive compulsive woman with a thing for numbers, but thank you!

[Russet29]

Well MCatry I'm glad to hear you're continuing to count screen time. I learned while doing this that while I love consuming these stats, compiling them is another story. I still may do one or two more but I'll be leaving the bulk of it up to you. Many thanks!

[MCatry]

I will complete the three episodes I still have to count as soon as I get back home (in a week or so...)

In the meantime, here are more of the ones I already compiled:

 

Season 10 episode 5
Hotch 26 minutes and 6 seconds
JJ 17 minutes and 51 seconds
Rossi 17 minutes and 3 seconds
Unsub 13 minutes and 56 seconds
Kate 8 minutes and 18 seconds
Morgan 4 minutes and 48 seconds
Reid 4 minutes and 44 seconds
Garcia 2 minutes and 56 seconds

 

Season 10 episode 6
JJ 16 minutes and 43 seconds
Unsubs 15 minutes and 6 seconds
Reid 12 minutes and 27 seconds
Kate 11 minutes and 25 seconds
Rossi 10 minutes and 18 seconds
Hotch 9 minutes and 21 seconds
Morgan 8 minutes and 47 seconds
Garcia 6 minutes and 17 seconds

 

Season 10 episode 7

Morgan 23 minutes and 16 seconds
JJ 13 minutes and 50 seconds
Kate 11 minutes and 10 seconds
Reid 9 minutes and 47 seconds
Hotch 9 minutes and 14 seconds
Garcia 9 minutes and 4 seconds
Rossi 8 minutes and 17 seconds
Unsubs 8 minutes and 2 seconds

 

Season 10 episode 8
Unsubs 18 minutes and 22 seconds
Morgan 12 minutes and 24 seconds
JJ 10 minutes and 30 seconds
Kate 9 minutes and 25 seconds
Hotch 6 minutes and 24 seconds
Rossi 5 minutes and 59 seconds
Garcia 5 minutes and 46 seconds
Reid 4 minutes and 25 seconds

Edited May 4, 2015 by MCatry

[Old Dog]

Well so far on what MCatry has done Season 10 looks like the unsub, JJ and Morgan show!

[Guesswht]

Well so far on what MCatry has done Season 10 looks like the unsub, JJ and Morgan show!

Season 10 episode 1-8

 

JJ - 104 min 39 s

Kate - 101 m 53 s (almost 102 mins)

Hotch - 93 m 41 s

Morgan - 90 m 4 s

Rossi - 83 m 50 s

Reid - 63 m 25 s

Garcia - 53 m 40 s

 

JJ had very little .. almost no screen time in ep13,16 and 17 while Kate was everywhere in these episodes. I think Kate is going to "win" here. Season 10 of CM = The Kate Show.

#Epicfail

[Old Dog]

I wouldn't hold your breath - MCatry hasn't done The Forever People yet!! It's not showing too much variance among the cast except for the glaring fact coming out of these figures is that Reid is the one getting a raw deal this season.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Old Dog

[Guesswht]

I wouldn't hold your breath - MCatry hasn't done The Forever People yet!! It's not showing too much variance among the cast except for the glaring fact coming out of these figures is that Reid is the one getting a raw deal this season.

MCatry also hasn't done Lockdown yet!! and i didn't count Breath Play!! and Scream!! and she also had so much screen time in Hero Worship... Kate definitely "wins".

JLH should be proud of herself, she ruined a family.

[Old Dog]

MCatry also hasn't done Lockdown yet!! and i didn't count Breath Play!! and Scream!! and she also had so much screen time in Hero Worship... Kate definitely "wins".

JLH should be proud of herself, she ruined a family.

I repeat "don't hold your breath". JJ notched up half of Protection and I suspect will end up with most screen time overall. Of course we also shouldn't forget that the quality of screentime counts more than quantity. Looking back no-one has really dominated this season whatever the extreme minority believe. IMO.

[Guesswht]

I don't know what's going on with MGG/Reid. Ugh Maybe E.M. hates MGG? Who knows... :(

JJ had a small amount of screen time when AJ was 1-2 months pregnant (i think it's because she was sick :(...) so -- i'm waiting for the second half of the season. (@MCarty)

I don't mind her having a little bit more screen time than the others, she's been on the show for 10 years, she deserves it unlike______

Edited May 4, 2015 by Guesswht

[secnarf]

MCatry also hasn't done Lockdown yet!! and i didn't count Breath Play!! and Scream!! and she also had so much screen time in Hero Worship... Kate definitely "wins".

JLH should be proud of herself, she ruined a family.

How is it JLH's fault? She's not writing the scripts, nor providing the overall direction for the show - and since this is relatively consistent over time rather than a few episodes, it's not an individual writer making these decisions either. JLH shows up and acts the scenes that her character has been written into.

I question the notion that Kate has ruined/taken over the show (again differentiating quality vs quantity time), but even if you accept that as true, that doesn't mean it's JLH's fault.

[Russet29]

I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that anyone is "scared of this woman." She's not the mob. This just happens to be a message board where most of the posters either like JLH or are indifferent to her, unlike Facebook or twitter where you can find a whole range of opinions. We have no reason to believe that she is doing "more than showing up and acting." We also have no reason to believe that of AJC. I do feel that occasionally speculation on this board goes too far with regards to actors supposed demands when we have no actual proof of it. The writers write and the actors act. Sometimes we lose sight of that. If you are frustrated with some of the things said about certain actors, specifically AJC (and believe me you are not alone), I suggest you don't fight fire with fire. In other words don't do to JLH what other people do to one of your favorites. We don't know what happens behind the scenes and I find it best to just discuss what we know with absolute certainty.

 

Edit: Damn. Every time I try to reply to a certain poster by the time I'm finished his/her post has magically disappeared.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Russet29

[MCatry]

In any case one thing is true: the female cast has increased their screen time, and that had a negative impact in the viewers evolution along these last four years. The fan bases cheering for the male cast are indeed much larger, and at this point probably very disappointed with the way female power has overtaken the show.

[thewhiteowl]

 

Edit: Damn. Every time I try to reply to a certain poster by the time I'm finished his/her post has magically disappeared.

 

 Then don't respond.  Report, instead or ignore. 

 

[jaytee1812]

In any case one thing is true: the female cast has increased their screen time, and that had a negative impact in the viewers evolution along these last four years. The fan bases cheering for the male cast are indeed much larger, and at this point probably very disappointed with the way female power has overtaken the show.

I'm glad the female cast has increased their screen time, more women on TV should always be given priority over upsetting a group of misogynists. It's certainly the best thing Messer has done for the show.

[MCatry]

MCatry also hasn't done Lockdown yet!! and i didn't count Breath Play!! and Scream!! and she also had so much screen time in Hero Worship... Kate definitely "wins".

JLH should be proud of herself, she ruined a family.

Two things:

A) when you happen to watch your favourite character on screen, time just flies. When your most hated character is in screen, its only one second too much.

B) 'she ruined a family'? What are you talking about? These are actors, working for the CBS. Some may get along to each other, and some may not. It doesn't matter, as long as they can get the job done.

[Russet29]

 Then don't respond.  Report, instead or ignore. 

But I want to respond. Isn't that what these boards are for? A discussion? I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to understand both sides of this debate.

 

In any case one thing is true: the female cast has increased their screen time, and that had a negative impact in the viewers evolution along these last four years. The fan bases cheering for the male cast are indeed much larger, and at this point probably very disappointed with the way female power has overtaken the show.

I'm not sure that's causation so much as a correlation. Just because less people watch the show live or same day doesn't mean it's because the women have more screen time.

[MCatry]

I'm glad the female cast has increased their screen time, more women on TV should always be given priority over upsetting a group of misogynists. It's certainly the best thing Messer has done for the show.

The problem with your argument is that the criminal minds fanbase is mostly female, and most of these viewers are interested in watching a male cast. You may like it, or not, but that's how and why tv shows and tv companies roll the way they do.

I don't agree with your statement that more women on Tv should 'always be given priority over upsetting a group of misogynists'. That implies that you are assuming fans of the male characters are misogynists, and that's an oversimplification of the media audience assessment. Always females in front is as bad as always men in front. Also, I consider more misogynist to get a blond running, waving a gun with a nice pony tale and heels I wouldn't were for three hours on a row, wearing t-shirts. Those scenes seem to consider women as decoration, and not as persons.

Finally, if TV show attempts to reflect reality, as CM once tried, at least, then putting a couple of married middle age women in charge of so many different task is unrealistic.

[Old Dog]

But I want to respond. Isn't that what these boards are for? A discussion? I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just trying to understand both sides of this debate.

 

I agree. I want to respond too and try to find out why people have such extreme views. I have fairly strong views on the show but still try to be open to other views if there is hard evidence to perhaps change how I feel. If someone really stepped over the line I would report them but I find it hard to ignore as I always want to argue my side.

[thewhiteowl]

If you must argue, do it elsewhere, this is for opinions and discussion which is fairly impossible with extreme views. You may argue all you like in PM"s, not on the board.

[normasm]

I took the admin advice and put a poster on ignore. The poster I blocked couldn't, in my opinion, be reasoned with, kept harping on the same inane point, and so trying to "understand" him/her or persuade him/her to my side was futile, frustrating, and a BIG WASTE OF PRECIOUS TIME.

[JMO]

I've done the same as Normasm. Two fewer in the audience.

[normasm]

I like a good, lively argument as well, old dog, not fighting, like you said. We all occasionally disagree here, and a well-stated opinion by one of you has made me change my mind on occasion, or at least make room for your possibilities. 

 

Some people just can't hear anything but their own voice, and answering them just sets their echo chamber going again.

[Russet29]

So I'm trying to compare season averages for live+7 over the past few seasons because according to various sites this is the best way to gauge a show's popularity. I'm more interested in CM's popularity and how much it's waned over the years versus the live+sd numbers which give you a better idea as to how attractive it is for advertisers. So far I can only find numbers for seasons 9 and 10 but I averaged them and this is what I got:

 

Season 9

Total viewers: 14.4  18-49: 3.8

Season 10

Total viewers: 14.5  18-49: 3.7

 

I'm definitely surprised at how little the demo dropped and the fact that total viewers has gone up, and this is factoring in 200 and it's 16.39m total viewers. I will say that this season has been a bit more consistent with total viewership but the demo has dropped dramatically since the season premiere. I blame Empire. If anyone knows where I can find the numbers for seasons 7 and 8 it would be much appreciated.

[MCatry]

So I'm trying to compare season averages for live+7 over the past few seasons because according to various sites this is the best way to gauge a show's popularity. I'm more interested in CM's popularity and how much it's waned over the years versus the live+sd numbers which give you a better idea as to how attractive it is for advertisers.

I'm definitely surprised at how little the demo dropped and the fact that total viewers has gone up, and this is factoring in 200 and it's 16.39m total viewers.

I think there is no way to do a fair comparison between earlier seasons and late seasons in term of ratings, because the way the data was obtained is different. In addition, the Nielsen sampling is fairly small given the size and diversity of the country.

In a way, live ratings should be more interesting for advertisers, since while watching live you just can't escape from their ads (unless you use that time for doing some other things, and risking not coming back to your seat in time to not miss your show). In those terms, it represent the loyal audience which just cannot wait to watch an episode, so these are the people for which CM is, indeed, pretty popular. On the other hand, it cannot show how much the audience actually liked (or hated) the episode. It's only a measure of how much people really wanted to see it.

Live +7 ratings are a new way to measure viewership that tries to adapt to the reality of DVRs existence, but for me it also has several objections: if they use them to convince advertisers to buy time with their shows, they assume at the same time that all of us who actually use the DVRs to record the shows won't use the FFW button when we watch it. Now, it's not difficult to see that most of us wouldn't just quit using that useful function, since the remote controls allow us to do that without much trouble, but also because most DVR users like to FFW parts they find boring, or RWD parts they enjoy more. I don't see myself enjoyin advertisements, although there may be someone who actually likes them.

I do not know how live +7 ratings deal with multiple reproductions from one single apparatus. It would only be fair if the count is just one, but what if that person actually watched the episode lives at the same time recorded it on the DVR, and then watched it again?

And all that, just to deal with advertisers.

There is practically no data regarding how well episodes were perceived once they were broadcasted. The only chance may be the re-runs, but then again the TV company decides what to re-run, and we can only chose from that reduced sample. It's a very interesting dilemma.

Take, for instance, the infamous 200 episode, which obtained the highest live rating of the season: there was so much anticipation because of the huge landmark, and Prentiss return, but how many of those 12 and something million viewers whised they wouldn't watch the 200 episode once it was over? We will never know, unfortunately.

Edited, because I meant wished, not whisked.

Edited May 5, 2015 by MCatry

[MCatry]

And I forgot to mention than Nielsen also produces 'commercial ratings' but that data is not freely distributed.

[SSAHotchner]

How is it JLH's fault? She's not writing the scripts, nor providing the overall direction for the show - and since this is relatively consistent over time rather than a few episodes, it's not an individual writer making these decisions either. JLH shows up and acts the scenes that her character has been written into.

I question the notion that Kate has ruined/taken over the show (again differentiating quality vs quantity time), but even if you accept that as true, that doesn't mean it's JLH's fault.

I'm going to have to wait to see the numbers, but I don't feel that JLH has been used much at all this season. Maybe more than Blake was used 8 & 9, but seriously, other than her introduction episode not all that much. But I have friends who can't stand her who swear that she is "taking over" and ruining the show. I will say that we don't see her taking over as team leader, as JJ has done in several episodes. I shouldn't take it out on JJ/AJC, but it drives me nuts. I want to see Hotch lead the team. Why do the writers so seldom write strong Hotch these days? It makes me wonder if tried and true actors JM and TG are just satisfied collecting their paychecks without having much to do. Maybe after doing the show this long, they just don't care. 

[zannej]

Am I the only person who does not have an "ignore" option available on my screen? I have tried it in different browsers and on different computers but there is no Ignore button.. WTF? LOL. Edit: Ok, found I have to click my little person thing at the top and "Manage Ignore Prefs" and manually enter names. 

 

I don't see why people can't have a discussion/debate so long as it remains respectful. That is expressing their own opinions. If a person posts a particular opinion and someone disagrees with it and explains why, it can lead to even more interesting discussion- so long as it remains respectful (and if it is still on-topic to the thread)

 

That said, I'm waiting to see more statistics. Too bad its not easy to weed out the useful contributions of Reid vs when they just gave him useless crap to spew- or when they had him spew stuff that wasn't correct.

Edited May 6, 2015 by zannej