S34: James "J.T." Thomas, Jr.

[SVNBob]

5 minutes ago, Vyk said:

True, but on the flip side, Rupert was also the one who started realizing that they couldn't just blindly trust Russell,

After talking to Sandra, of course.  She wrangled Rupert back in, but he couldn't do the same with JT.

[Jobiska]

I read Sandra's monotone in supporting Michaela's assertions about things she had done around camp not as halfhearted support, but as not wanting those to go completely unchallenged (and maybe not having Michaela work herself up so much she turned Varner off, or something), yet not wanting JT to get an inkling that she was totally not voting Michaela out.  It was a fine line to walk and I was pretty impressed.  

[Hera]

20 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Had he just kept his mouth shut to Brad, instead of trying to make a bold move, Malcolm would have survived, and there's a chance those two plus Aubry could have teamed up and tried to pull in Varner.

This is what I keep coming back to. If his tribe had been able to keep their six intact, he would have had Malcolm and Aubry on board to take Sandra out (according to Malcolm, Aubry wanted Sandra gone, so I don't think that vote would be a tough sell). Once you have three, I doubt Michaela or Varner (and certainly not both of them) would be willing to draw rocks in order to save Sandra. She's a useful shield, but she's going to have to go at some point, and I think most players would find the 25% risk of going home intolerably high. Jeff and Michaela are not stupid people nor are they particularly big on taking chances. Ironically, someone who might be willing to take that kind of risk is JT.

19 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I think pretty much any leader-type needs a strong partner in the game (this is the classic Fox/Bear duo.)  Kim had Chelsea, Parvati had Amanda (and later Danielle), Denise had Malcolm, Tom had Ian, Cirie had Aras, Yul had Becky, Aubry had Joe, etc etc going all the way back to Richard and Rudy.  Not the only way to win (the lone wolf often wins, and has often beaten just this kind of duo, in fact), but I think the only way to succeed as a leader.

To add to the list: Earl had Yau (really, they had each other; Yau might have won if he had made it to the end). Todd and Amanda as well—poor Amanda. I also want to give props to you, @KimberStormer. While I don't think we'll ever agree about JT, I admire your willingness to keep defending him, especially on a board that is so negative about him.

[KimberStormer]

31 minutes ago, Hera said:

This is what I keep coming back to. If his tribe had been able to keep their six intact, he would have had Malcolm and Aubry on board to take Sandra out (according to Malcolm, Aubry wanted Sandra gone, so I don't think that vote would be a tough sell). Once you have three, I doubt Michaela or Varner (and certainly not both of them) would be willing to draw rocks in order to save Sandra. She's a useful shield, but she's going to have to go at some point, and I think most players would find the 25% risk of going home intolerably high. Jeff and Michaela are not stupid people nor are they particularly big on taking chances. Ironically, someone who might be willing to take that kind of risk is JT.

But would Aubry and Malcolm be willing to draw rocks for JT?  It goes both ways.  Especially in this instant-rocks season, any potential tie vote is going to be terrifying.  They might flip Varner or Michaela but they know if they just vote JT they have nothing to worry about whatever.  Is the benefit of keeping JT really worth such brinksmanship to them (especially for Aubry)?  It's much, much easier to say "sorry JT, we would but the numbers aren't there."  Whereas if he takes Sandra (or Michaela or Varner) out, taking advantage of this twist instead of just sitting and watching it happen, there's no rocks to worry about anymore and he's good to go.

Thank you for your kind words!  I do hope we have something else to talk about on Wednesday, though!

[LadyChatts]

Varner would be the one to persuade.  The only hiccup to that plan is if he ran back to Sandra and they cornered Aubry, saying they would force a rock draw unless she flipped back to them.  Varner said during SC that he voted for Vytas in that first vote because he was afraid of a possible rock draw, and he didn't want his second chance to be determined by that.  I doubt he would want his third chance to be potentially ended by rocks.  I think that would have been a more worthwhile move.  

Edited April 4, 2017 by LadyChatts

[kikaha]

1 hour ago, Hera said:

This is what I keep coming back to. If his tribe had been able to keep their six intact, he would have had Malcolm and Aubry on board to take Sandra out (according to Malcolm, Aubry wanted Sandra gone, so I don't think that vote would be a tough sell). Once you have three, I doubt Michaela or Varner (and certainly not both of them) would be willing to draw rocks in order to save Sandra. She's a useful shield, but she's going to have to go at some point, and I think most players would find the 25% risk of going home intolerably high. Jeff and Michaela are not stupid people nor are they particularly big on taking chances. Ironically, someone who might be willing to take that kind of risk is JT.

Another consideration: the IC last episode practically came to a photo finish.  Malcolm is outstanding at almost all challenges.  With him still in the game, chances are fair that their tribe doesn't come in third, or go to tribal at all.  

[NurseGiGi]

I was on Survivor Sucks for a little while last night and BOY do they hate JT over there!  I hope he never goes there because they don't just criticize his game play.  I'm from the south and I hate to see people make fun of someone just because they have a southern accent and some of those people are brutal about it. JT made some bad decisions this season, no doubt.  But he's not a stupid man.  I could kill him for getting my eye candy voted out, though.

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, NurseGiGi said:

I was on Survivor Sucks for a little while last night and BOY do they hate JT over there!  I hope he never goes there because they don't just criticize his game play.  I'm from the south and I hate to see people make fun of someone just because they have a southern accent and some of those people are brutal about it. JT made some bad decisions this season, no doubt.  But he's not a stupid man.  I could kill him for getting my eye candy voted out, though.

Really?  I enjoy it immensely - if only because it makes things so much easier when bigot assholes 'out' themselves voluntarily.  :D

[NutMeg]

On 4/4/2017 at 4:56 AM, KimberStormer said:

I think pretty much any leader-type needs a strong partner in the game (this is the classic Fox/Bear duo.)  Kim had Chelsea, Parvati had Amanda (and later Danielle), Denise had Malcolm, Tom had Ian, Cirie had Aras, Yul had Becky, Aubry had Joe, etc etc going all the way back to Richard and Rudy.  Not the only way to win (the lone wolf often wins, and has often beaten just this kind of duo, in fact), but I think the only way to succeed as a leader.

Agree, but regarding the bolded part I always saw it as Aras having Cirie (and Danielle), not as Cirie having Aras. As we are in the JT thread, I'd say I saw Aras as a JT and both Cirie and Danielle as Stephens.

[ProfCrash]

I agree, many of the winners had a second. Sandra had Rupert. All the winners found a way to put together an alliance. JT has an ok social game but it seems to revolve around working with men and that killed his game the last two times out. JT seems to need that second person more then the others do. Sandra is the only person to win twice, and her second win was pretty close to a solo win with how things played out, but the other winners tend to have been targeted and taken out before they became too dangerous.

The other thing is that I cannot see Aras, Yul, Tom, Denise or Richard making the moves JT made in his last two games. There was no strategic advantage to them. I can see them giving up an idol after pretty specific negotiations and knowing what they would get out of it, not sending it to an unknown player because you fear a womans alliance. I can see them telling the opposition who their alliance was going to vote for but only after guaranteeing that their target went home.

JT makes moves without securing something for himself. My god, he Lex. He'll save Amber and be surprised when it bites him in the ass. JT does not need a partner, he needs a handler. Kim, Richard, Yul, Aras all looked for a partner. I think Yul even admitted at Final Tribal that he and Becky worked hand in hand. JT needs a wrangler, someone who can save him from himself.

And he needs to learn how to work with women. If you look at his first season, it was the men who were tripping over helping him. The info from interviews and the like for his last two seasons point to his unwillingness to work with women. That is a huge problem. And probably why I am so anti-JT. The more I see him play and the more I hear about him, the more I think Neanderthal mentality.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Jobiska said:

I read Sandra's monotone in supporting Michaela's assertions about things she had done around camp not as halfhearted support, but as not wanting those to go completely unchallenged (and maybe not having Michaela work herself up so much she turned Varner off, or something), yet not wanting JT to get an inkling that she was totally not voting Michaela out.  It was a fine line to walk and I was pretty impressed.  

Plus Sandra has to work with Michaela going forward, not JT, so it was smart to curry favor with Michaela.  Even if Sandra felt Michaela IS lazy around camp, it would be smart to side with her in the petty argument if she needs her loyalty.