The Political Parties of the United States

[Quilt Fairy]

I have a whole bunch of disparate thoughts that have been whirling around in my head the last several months and I never found the right thread to put them in.  We have threads to talk about the candidates, but nothing about the Republican and Democratic parties in general, where they came from and where they’re going.  So that’s what I’d like to do here.  In a not-very-organized list, these are some the issues I’d like to throw out for discussion, feel free to add your own:

• Primaries.  People keep saying that the Republicans politicians or the RNC selected Trump as their candidate, but that’s not really true.  Republican voters in the primaries selected delegates who were committed to Trump, and for the most part I believe they are not allowed to change their minds at the convention.  But the biggest problem with the primaries seems to be that the great majority of the early ones are held in the South, which is heavily conservative and which can have – as it did this time around – an influence on the campaign out of proportion with the feelings of the nation as a whole.  Why don’t some of the more liberal states have their primaries earlier? Why is California’s in June, FFS?

• Middle class white voters.  This is an under-served part of the electorate, and I can understand – almost – why Trump would appeal to them.  Many of those people used to be Democrats. They have been left in the lurch by the changes of the last 50 years.  The well-paid, blue-collar, union-represented factory jobs of the 40’s, 50’ and 60’s are gone and they’re not coming back.  But it seems no one in this country on either side wants to address this.  College is not for everyone, nor does every job require it.  We need a separate track in high school for people to learn a trade like electrician, plumber, mechanic, etc.  I take it for granted that most people want to work, but you can’t support a family flipping burgers at Mc Donald’s or stocking shelves at Walmart.  Personally, I'd also like to see a new version of the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) who did so much awesome work on our National Parks, roads, dams and other infrastructure projects during the Depression.  It gave millions of men jobs they desperately needed. 
• The ultra-conservatism of the Republican Party.  Ugh.  When the heck did that happen?  I feel like the Republican Party got taken hostage by Fundamentalist Christians and they’re never letting go.  And of course you can’t say anything bad about them because – you know – they’re Christians.  I identified as an only-go-to-church-on-Christmas-Eve Christian for most of my life, but over the last year I’ve given up the pretense and just admitted to myself that I’m an atheist.  I don’t believe in God.  I didn’t lose my morals or my ethics when I came to this conclusion.  I’m still the same person and I’ll help someone who’s lost or offer a hand up to someone who’s fallen.  How did Republicans hi-jack the idea of “family values” and redefine it to mean heterosexual married couples with a submission wife who doesn’t work outside the home, cooks dinner every night and is a professional baby incubator?  Being a liberal does not mean you worship Satan. I will confess to being one of those “one-issue” voters, and my issue is abortion.  Any candidate that doesn’t identify as pro-choice will not get my vote, period.  I find it ironic that a party that is supposedly for small government is OK with the government controlling what I do in my bedroom and what I do with my uterus.  Don’t they realize that’s the opposite of small government?  Or is the irony lost on them?

That’s enough for now.  I welcome your thoughts, and thanks for listening to my rant.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Quilt Fairy

[ChromaKelly]

I thought we could use a thread for discussing the various aspects of our political parties, the two major ones and the third/fringe parties too. Their strategies, tactics, future chances, etc.

I have seriously been wondering what the GOP's future is. Where do they go from here? The past several presidential elections have been either close - 2000/2004, an overwhelming win for the Democrats - 2008, or a close but decent margin for the Dems - 2012. I just don't see how they can win the White House any time in the near future. I thought after 2012, they were going to make an effort to broaden their base, in particular to target the growing Latino population, but instead they seemed to have done everything they can to alienate all non-white voters and a lot of their own party.

[b2H]

Both parties really need an overhaul.  Primaries need to be held nationwide on one  day.  The Dems need to get out of their own way and do a better job of controlling the narrative.  They need to get some better leads for strategy.  They need to start honing some candidates for the next 20 years because they're running out of options.  There is no heir apparent on the horizon and that is no good.

The GOP needs to go back to the drawing board and break themselves out of themselves away from the conservatives that would destroy the.  If anyone needs to take their party back, it is the GOP.  They are also in worse need of finding heirs apparent that aren't lunatics.

[AimingforYoko]

Chuck Todd had a fascinating discussion today about the possible realignment of the two major parties going on right now:

Democrats have nearly lost all the working class whites (union members notwithstanding), while gaining educated suburban voters (especially women)

Republicans are gaining said working-class white, (especially in the rust belt, hence Trump's late play for Michigan), but are losing educated, middle and upper-middle class suburban voters. 

So that means while the Dems may eventually lose some rust belt states, North Carolina, Florida and possibly Georgia may go the way of Virginia and move from swing states to reliably blue states. 

We need two competitive parties in this country and if the GOP doesn't figure out that chasing a bigger and bigger share of an ever-shrinking demographic is a sure road to oblivion, we won't have a competitive GOP. Especially if President Obama's pet project is successful and the Dems gain control of enough statehouses to draw district lines after the next census. Because gerrymandering is the only thing going for the Republicans right now.

[Pyralis]

That's the thing about your electoral system that (as a Canadian) mystifies me the most - why are there not federal standards for registration, voting, districts, etc. in federal elections.  The obvious partisanship in "winner gets to decide" is bound to leave people out.  And why the heck does someone have to register as affiliated D or R or independent.  It's none of the rolls' keeper's business what my affiliation is.

[Queena]

I think that the future of the Democratic party is bright. If Hillary doesn't run for reelection, I can name a few people that can run as Tim Kaine's veep. 

The GOP is in a state of crisis. I saw it in :04 when Bush barely won (some say that election was stolen) against Kerry. 08 really showed how disconnected that they are from reality. 

There aren't any more Bushes or Clinton's to run. 2020 will be fresh faces. I'm interested in seeing who will run. 

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, Pyralis said:

That's the thing about your electoral system that (as a Canadian) mystifies me the most - why are there not federal standards for registration, voting, districts, etc. in federal elections.  The obvious partisanship in "winner gets to decide" is bound to leave people out.  And why the heck does someone have to register as affiliated D or R or independent.  It's none of the rolls' keeper's business what my affiliation is.

There's an intricate tango between what are the state's rights vs what the federal government controls that go back to when our nation was founded.  The only time you really have to declare an affiliation with a party is in the primary; you only get the ballot of that party.  It may be different in other states (I'm in Illinois), but I don't consider it being "registered" at all.  I can ask for a Democratic primary ballot in one election and a Republican ballot the next time.   

[scriggle]

12 hours ago, Pyralis said:

And why the heck does someone have to register as affiliated D or R or independent.  It's none of the rolls' keeper's business what my affiliation is.

In my state (Massachusetts), the majority of registered voters are unenrolled (have no party affiliation).  Out of 4.3M registered voters, the breakdown is 1.5M Democrat, 0.5M Republican, 2.3M unenrolled.

[Ohwell]

14 hours ago, Queena said:

There aren't any more Bushes or Clinton's to run. 2020 will be fresh faces. I'm interested in seeing who will run. 

I really, really, hope that there will be fresh faces in 2020.  

[Queena]

It's time for the democrats to do an autopsy just as the republicans did. I still think that this was a one-off election. I don't think that this was a mandate. I don't think that the country has turned. I think that it was our candidate. While I was with her. Young people weren't. The democratic party and progressives are made up of young people. In '04, Obama was young and new. That's what made him so popular, and what captured us all. I'm closer to 50 than I am to 20, so I am not ageist. I am just trying to save my party and progressive politics. I've heard let's run Bernie in 2020, or Warren. They both will be in their 70's, and Bernie will be closer to 80. We need someone young. We've paid the Clinton's. There aren't any more political dynasties in the democratic party. Let's groom our next Obama. 

 

While I love Tim Kaine, I think that she should've picked a minority as her running mate. I know why she picked Kaine, but I think that a minority would've reached more milimiums. I don't think as Chris Matthews says, we need to go back and make our politics more friendly to White people. They're friendly to everyone already. Does he mean we should become like Trump. NO!

[shoregirl]

6 minutes ago, Queena said:

I'm closer to 50 than I am to 20

You just made me realize that so am I . .so now I'm depressed for two reasons ☺. 

I do wonder if she picked someone like Cory Booker or Joaquin Castro (or his brother) if things would have been different . Picking Tim Kaine clearly didn't help her with the white vote.

[Queena]

2 hours ago, shoregirl said:

You just made me realize that so am I . .so now I'm depressed for two reasons ☺. 

I do wonder if she picked someone like Cory Booker or Joaquin Castro (or his brother) if things would have been different . Picking Tim Kaine clearly didn't help her with the white vote.

It sure didn't. I think that it would've. 

[Danny Franks]

On 08/11/2016 at 6:49 AM, Queena said:

I think that the future of the Democratic party is bright. If Hillary doesn't run for reelection, I can name a few people that can run as Tim Kaine's veep. 

The GOP is in a state of crisis. I saw it in :04 when Bush barely won (some say that election was stolen) against Kerry. 08 really showed how disconnected that they are from reality. 

There aren't any more Bushes or Clinton's to run. 2020 will be fresh faces. I'm interested in seeing who will run. 

Hillary won't run again. She's failed twice now, and everyone in the Democratic Party has to now be painfully aware that the Clinton political message is outdated. But I don't think Kaine should run either. He doesn't have the charisma, and he's too moderate to appeal to a lot of the liberal left. He's also too white, as difficult as that is to say (and I'm glad I'm not the first), and I do think that if Hillary had chosen Booker, she'd have won.

Forget that idea of trying to win the middle ground. There is no middle ground in American politics any more. Clinton was as middle-of-the-road as it gets, and she clearly didn't bring swathes of moderate Republicans over to her cause. Trump sat on the far right, and dragged people out there with him. That's what the Democrats have to do. Don't be afraid to say, 'yes, I'm left-wing. Yes, I'm a social democrat. This is what I believe, and this is how I can help you'.

Embrace Sanders, make him and Elizabeth Warren the figureheads of the party. Become clearly progressive reformers, winning the love of the young people in the country. They have to start now, not mess around navel-gazing for eighteen months and then say, 'oh crap, the mid-terms!' A good mid-terms performance is absolutely vital, and would help build momentum for 2020. There are plenty of progressive Democrats now in office, and they have to be the ones to decide the direction of the party.

Right now, I'd love to see a 2020 ticket of Warren/Booker. I think that could electrify the left, and there would be something delightful about a woman dethroning Trump. But a lot can happen in four years.