Criminal Minds Villains: Let's Talk UnSubs

[Wilowy]

Come on in, cop a squat, and discuss the differences, ticks and quirks, and methodologies of the insane-os that give our team a run for their money. Plus, we all have a favorite, don't we? What cretinous maladjust is yours?

[mstaken]

I've probably rambled about this elsewhere, but I have a soft spot for the Unsubs who are genuinely mentally ill rather than just coldly sociopathic (though those can be interesting as well!)  It makes things more ethically sticky and complex when the Unsub is too psychotic to be held fully responsible for his/her actions. Of course, one could argue that all serial killers are 'crazy' to an extent, so where does one draw the line?! Anyway, I'd love to know how some of the mentally ill Unsubs are faring---did they receive the treatment they need? IS there genuinely effective treatment for what ailed them? Have the people in their lives forgiven them? Have they forgiven themselves?

I also find myself fascinated, albeit creeped out, by the youngest Unsubs. Is there any 'curing' them?! I'd love a followup, even in fanfic form, on Nathan Harris. And is there any redemption possible for the kids from Boogeyman and Shade of Grey?! 

[Wilowy]

There's so many richly drawn murderers in the show, here are just three of my 'favorites':

Vincent

Ian

Owen

[mstaken]

I actually liked the Unsub from Zoe's Reprise as well. Especially if by "like", one means "was totally creeped out by." He didn't KNOW why he did these things; and, no matter how well they profiled him, the team didn't quite know either. He just WAS this way, you know?! Deeply, inherently 'off.' There's something fascinatingly scary about that. 

And, oh, who could forget Kentucky Fried Unsub? I'm convinced he was *deliberately* over the top...right?! 

[Wilowy]

Poor Johnny. It's hard for me to watch Zoe's Reprise because I really liked that actor. He was so good as the UnSub and the way he died in real life was just so senseless. 

I do think Jason Alexander did his best to appear menacing, I don't think 'laughable' was what he was going for. What were they thinking putting THAT guy in a white wig and light suit?? Like we wouldn't think of George Costanza? Pssh.

Here's another favorite addition to the Rogue's Gallery:

Megan

[mstaken]

I swear that I meant to mention Megan (and how much I adore Hotch in that particular episode), but I was so busy rambling about other deliciously creepy sickos that I seem to have forgotten!

And since you guys know I'm fascinated by the younger Unsubs and mentally ill Unsubs, what do you think happened to Clara from Compulsion? Is she 'cured'? Has she forgiven herself? Have others forgiven her? Is she leading something resembling a normal life...?

Oh, and best Unsub who isn't yet officially declared an Unsub: Will, aka Mr. JJ :) 

[Wilowy]

Megan was my favorite female UnSub of all. Then comes THIS gal:

Samantha

Regarding the 'sugar' girl, I don't know that she'd ever be able to lead any kind of a normal life. Even if it weren't for her extreme OCD, she'd have to deal with the crippling guilt of the murders. 

I wonder about Owen, and yes, Nathan. Haven't had much time to write lately but still working on it. 

Will is definitely creepy, though not in an UnSub way to me. He just always looks like he's about to fall asleep. Kinda like what I do when I see him and JJ together. 

[mstaken]

Awww, poor Uncanny Valley Unsub Whose Name I Can't Remember! She really resonated with me as well. 

[Wilowy]

Ha! Found this on google... LOVE the Foyet and Vincent!

[Wilowy]

Three of the WORST!

 

Floyd Feylinn Ferrell

 

Tobias Hankel

 

Frank Breitkopf

[SSAHotchner]

I have to say Floyd Feylinn gets my vote for creepiest unsub. I know in recent seasons they've come up with some pretty bizarre ways to torture and kill victims, but I really despise that kind of writing where it's all about shock and gore. Floyd was creepy without showing us everything. We never saw him lay a hand on a victim and yet it still creeped you out completely. And one of my all-time favorite CM moments is the scene where the priest says, "God is in all of us." and Floyd says with a creepy grin, "So it Tracy Lambert." So evil.

 

I also love Professor Rothschild in Masterpiece. I thought Jason Alexander's acting was way over the top, but it was worth it all for Rossi's line at the end, "I'm gonna lean in and tell you to say hello to your scumbag brother." Loved it!!!

 

I know what you mean about the more sympathetic unsubs. I don't want the writers to always give us an excuse for why a killer is a killer. I don't want them to always try to drum up sympathy for the unsubs, but occasionally it works. And I agree with the poster who chose Megan from Pleasure is My Business. That is one of my favorite episodes. I adore Hotch in that one. When she says, "How could your wife have left you?" That's what I think, too. I don't excuse her actions, but I sure did sympathize with her. Her father was really pricky. She's a beautiful woman, too. She would have made a good agent.

[Wilowy]

Agreed that FFF is the creepiest of all, for the reasons you listed and more. And completely agree on your statement of 'less is more'. 

 

We part opinions on Masterpiece though. KFU was inexcusable, imo. Terribly miscast, and even the abundance of Dr. Reid's brilliance couldn't save his performance. I do wish they would have cast someone else, perhaps someone like Bruce Davison who is capable of extreme gravitas (and has awesome white hair) could've pulled it off. But to put Costanza in that white suit was a fatal error. :)

 

[SSAHotchner]

Oh, I agree that Jason Alexander was horrible, Willowy, but I still loved Rossi's big finish to the episode. I just love the snarkiness of Rossi. And the case was more interesting than most of what we've gotten for the past 3 1/2, well, call it 4, seasons. I enjoyed the dynamic between Morgan and Jordan Todd, and the way Reid figured out the puzzle. Overall it was a good episode with a poor choice of actor for the unsub. Can anyone ever look at JA in anything and not think of George Costanza? He could be one of the most talented actors around but I'm still always going to think of him as a weasel.

[legaleagle53]

One quick question:  What's an UnSub?

[Old Dog]

Surely the title of this thread gives you a teeny little clue?

 

Unknown Subject

Edited May 1, 2014 by Old Dog

[mstaken]

It stands for Unknown Subjects, aka the perpetrators they're profiling. Since the show so often shows us the killer from the outset of the episode, some of us snark that Known-Immediately-to-Everyone-Except-the-Team Subjects would sometimes be more appropriate :) 

[777]

For the love of all that's holy... THOSE WHO KILL,  EP. 107. "INSOMNIA" Written by....

[zannej]

I see 777 keeps telling people in multiple threads to go watch that episode but isn't saying why. It's bordering on spam.

[ForeverAlone]

That episode was written by Andrew Wilder. 

[antikking]

"Those who kill" is a new A&E show. Not Criminal Minds.

[Wilowy]

Jim also consults on it.

[zannej]

I miss when they used to be unknown instead of seeing them so early on. Sometimes that works, but lately it seems like they do it all the time and I want the mystery. Sometimes when they show the unsub right away I almost want to turn the tv off.

 

I did like the guy that Mitch Pileggi played. It was so sad that he just completely snapped and didn't seem to realize that he'd killed his own family.

 

Tobias was another one that worked well. Although, I still chuckle every time I watch the CPR scene because I remember the commentary with Matthew saying "He slipped me the tongue". 

 

I liked Ian Doyle despite the fact that I hated the story. I wish they had not thrown in the other clowns who were supposed to be spies. The spy stuff was just awful.

 

Despite having major issues with the plot in "100", I think Foyet was another of the really good unsubs. I loved how he pretended to be a victim and was so convincing and he really was menacing-- and that cliffhanger at the end of season 4.. Now THAT was going out with a bang.

 

I'm probably the only one who liked Jason Alexander as the Kentucky Fried Unsub. I admit I didn't get a sense of menace from him, but there was just something I liked about him. Which is kind of funny because he was one of the reasons I didn't like Seinfeld. 

 

I liked Chester Hardwick. Despite the fact that he was this violent sadistic creep who was planning to kill Reid and Hotch, there was something human about him. He wasn't just pure evil. Deep down he had the need to understand why he did such horrible things and why he didn't feel badly about them. He wanted other people to understand him and empathize with him as well. He had so much hope when he asked Reid if he meant what he'd said about not having a choice. You could see that he really wanted to hang on to some little bit of absolution or at least of something that would allow him to abdicate some of the responsibility for his actions. But Reid then threw out "I don't know" to indicate he basically just made it all up.

 

Vincent Perotti was another one that was a total creep but he'd been abused and he seemed human. He had a soft spot for women so he wasn't completely evil, and he had that brief moment of connection with Hotch.

 

I think the one I felt the most pity for was the guy in True Night who just totally lost his mind after his fiance was murdered. He didn't realize what he was doing and he was only killing violent criminals. As a society we frown on vigilante killings, but I know that quite a few law enforcement members feel that when criminals kill other criminals its a win/win situation.

[idiotwaltz]

In no particular order, my favourite UNSUBS: 

 

- Floyd Feylinn Farrell - "SO IS TRACY LAMBERT." I also found his recipe names to be unintentionally hilarious (Kobe Girl Steak, She-Kebabs or something of that sort) 

 

- That shaggy dude in Into the Woods who got away 

 

-  Brian Matloff from Tabula Rasa. I know he did terrible things and he needed to pay for his crimes, but post-amnesia, the guy was pretty sympathetic. He didn't know if he liked popcorn!

 

- I can't remember his name, but he was Weevil on Veronica Mars (I'm a terrible fan, I know). The submissive partner in Children of the Dark who was a little bit slow and just missed his sister a lot. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I can't remember episode titles, even though I have so much other useless information in my brain that it's ridiculous, but I can recall some unsubs.

 

Keith Carradine as Frank still creeps me out, if only because it was his case that broke Gideon and eventually made him run away. The way he was calmly sitting in that diner when Jason and Derek show up, sipping a strawberry milkshake as if he has all the time in the world, was just freaky. Unlike Jason Alexander, Carradine was so low-key that Frank shouldn't have seemed scary at all, and then he'd open his mouth and you realized what a psycho he was.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Wilowy]

My Top 10 UnSubs:

 

Ian Doyle

Foyet

Vincent

Owen

Megan

Floyd

Jonny McHale

Norman

Frank

Randall Garner

 

Bottom 5:

 

Cy - Proof

Wallace - The Inspiration

Carl - Magnificent Light

James Heathridge

Bryan - Magnum Opus

[ratherbereading]

I can't remember her character name but Beth Grant in Mosley Lane. Apart from the kidnapping, pretty much everything else was implied and off screen but oh so creepy. And the heartbreak at the end for those parents-just one day too late.

 

I'm with everyone else, FFF is just way too creepy. That kid from The Boogeyman-a complete psychopath.

 

Even though they were killers, my sympathies were with Tobias Hankel, Johnny Hale (the comic book guy), and Nathan Harris. I would love to see follow up on the last two.

[Wilowy]

Can't recall if I've ever posted this anywhere, but here's pictures taken by Wil Wheaton when he was in Paradise, in season 4. He also blogged about it.

 

Many thanks to a friend from another board for the reminder! 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wilwheaton/sets/72157608288950369

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Don't ask why, but I always mistake Wil Wheaton for Lukas Haas, who played the UnSub in the pilot and Compulsion.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I was watching Uncanny Valley again for the umpteenth time, noticing all the myriad things that make it great writing and a wonderful canon episode for character and team development. All the care taken to make an interesting unsub, not showing her too soon, having good profiling, team interaction, no "baby girl," no jumping all over the place shooting anything that moves. The team all handling everything they should to break the case. Taking the unsub into custody and saving the victims.

 

I also watched Uncanny Valley this morning, normasm, and Samantha Malcolm is probably the only UnSub I can unreservedly feel sorry for. Even Nathan Harris had his faculties about him, and that was what led him to reach out to Reid, but Samantha's psyche was so badly damaged by both her father's abuse and the way he kept her quiet in the aftermath that she had no way to grasp that making her captives into dolls would kill them. Obviously they wanted to stop her before she killed again and rescue her would-be victims, but Spencer's careful, gentle handling of her before they take her away gets me a little verklempt because she's so clearly broken. The way she smiles when he gives her the dolls really is like she's a child again.

[normasm]

She was well-written, and so well-acted, wasn't she? And the lynchpin of the profile, which Spencer delivers at the police station to dubious LEOs, that she had damage to her prefrontal cortex which permanently disabled her rational dealings with the real world, is part and parcel of why I love the writing on this show from the older days.

 

Other Unsubs who are so psychologically damaged they almost get a pass from me:

1. The mother in Hanley Waters, well written (for the most part) and very well acted

2. The graphic illustrator in True Night, again, well acted

3. Tobias Hankel

4. Brian in Tabula Rasa

5. The girl in the Edge of Winter (although she was first and always a victim, too)

6. I almost forgot Danny(?) in Haunted

 

So, mostly delusional folks, except for Brian, who was possibly changed from a true psychopathic serial killer to someone who was… not...

Edited October 12, 2014 by normasm

[normasm]

You know, not to be self-referential, but I was thinking about that get-out-of-jail-pass list of unsubs I just made. Most are old writers or older seasons, which isn't always indicative of quality, sure (not all of these stories are great). But every single one of these I listed were unsubs we built a connection with and were known from very early in the story, if not the first frame. The longest tease was Samantha. Just found it interesting that the early reveal of the unsub can be quite compelling. 

[JMO]

 

But every single one of these I listed were unsubs we built a connection with and were known from very early in the story, if not the first frame. The longest tease was Samantha. Just found it interesting that the early reveal of the unsub can be quite compelling.

 

You make a great point, Normasm.  I wonder if it's because we got more back story and less graphic enactment of the actual crimes in those episodes.  I don't actually think of CM as a 'who-done-it', so knowing the unsub early on isn't always a big disappointment for me.  It can be intriguing to watch the team reason their way to figuring out the pathology, even if we already know the person.  They still have to figure out how to find the unsub, and how to approach them.  That's the 'minds' part that I like.

[normasm]

more back story and less graphic enactment of the actual crimes

 

Exactly, JMO, that makes sense. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand now Frank is back, completing his arc and beginning Gideon's implosion. The Evilution of Frank is also Strauss' first episode.

[Wilowy]

And fuck her. The last scene of the ep is brutal and bullshit. Poor Emily. 

 

Though it also contains one of my favorite scenes of all. Hotch's profiling of his team. Done with insight, compassion, and spot-on analysis. <3

[Cobalt Stargazer]

She was well-written, and so well-acted, wasn't she? And the lynchpin of the profile, which Spencer delivers at the police station to dubious LEOs, that she had damage to her prefrontal cortex which permanently disabled her rational dealings with the real world, is part and parcel of why I love the writing on this show from the older days.

 

And I forgot to mention this part, but Spencer's gentleness with Samantha is a direct contrast to his awesome contempt for her father. When he says, "Do you Know how I figured you out, Dr. Malcolm?" I cheer for Reid because he's obviously furious at what he's realized, but he's also controlled.

 

In other UnSub news, In Birth and Death is about to end, and I had forgotten that Eddie Cibrian's character tries to get his kid to shoot Emily. What kind of thing is that to make your son responsible for? Prick.

[normasm]

I know, the little David character is one I've always expected to show up eventually as an unsub. It always creeps me out when the sucky dad says, "I never even told him to bring me this one." At the age of, what, seven? The kid is pulling women unprompted for dear ol dad to hobbify...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Also re About Face, the UnSub is played by Andrew Kavovit, perhaps best known as the original Paul Stenbeck from As The World Turns.

[normasm]

I'm not familiar with any but the 3 ABC soaps, AMC, OLTL, and GM. They had good writing at a particular period of time, and were fun to tune into for the drama{!}

Edited October 14, 2014 by normasm

[Cobalt Stargazer]

So Mosley Lane just ended on A & E, and does anyone who isn't me find a black kind of humor in the fact that Bud Cort's character ends up hanging himself? I mean, obviously he did it because he knew that he and his insane wife were about to be apprehended, but still. When they open the bedroom door and see that he's committed suicide, I always think, "I suppose you think that's very funny, Harold." Just me? Okay, then.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I always love female unsub episodes. Hey call it the feminist in me.

[idiotwaltz]

Remember the creepy kid UNSUB in The Boogey Man? I just watched The Giver and apparently he's grown into a creepy teenager! Or creepy 20-year-old pretending to be a teenager. 

[Old Dog]

LA seems to have a very small pool of actors! I just watched the pilot of Stalker and lo and behold - the unsub was the same actor who played the unsub in Middle Man on CM! I also saw a trailer for Homeland (which I don't watch) and swear I spotted the unsub from Scared to Death. Actually maybe this should be in the "You Know when you're obsessed" thread as once I spot a CM actor it detracts from the show I'm actually watching as I remember how they were on CM.

[normasm]

Old Dog, it's a game i play with my hubby called That Guy Was On Criminal Minds! Just yesterday i was checking out Constantine because a friend is set dresser, and I saw 2 people who had been on...

[Old Dog]

Don't you find it spoils the programme you are trying to watch? Once the obsessive mind registers they were on CM, it kind of ruins the show as I then can only visualise them as they were in CM! And why do so many actors just hop from show to show playing similar characters? I thought LA was littered with actors but there do seem to be a limited pool of them who actually get on TV.

[normasm]

If it spoiled what i was watching, I'd never enjoy TV again! Really, it's almost that bad out there in US TVland. 

[zannej]

Most of the time I get a kick out of seeing actors I recognize when they are on CM or have been on CM and I see them on other shows. There are a few exceptions-- like if I really disliked a particular actor or character-- for instance, the guy who played the father of the missing girl in "JJ' was on Ally McBeal as a character I despised. I laughed my ass off when his character died and I just can't stand the actor for some reason. I thought he was horrible in the episode. I don't know if was bc I associated him with Billy or if it was because he really did suck at acting in "JJ'. There are only a few performers I can't stand and will avoid.

 

I still remember geeking out a little when I saw the guy who played Jack Crusher on ST:TNG in the episode where it turned out the evil little boy had murdered his younger brother.

[Knittzu]

Don't you find it spoils the programme you are trying to watch? Once the obsessive mind registers they were on CM, it kind of ruins the show as I then can only visualise them as they were in CM!

 

 

So I'm watching season one of Grimm tonight and who shows up but Sebastian Roché! I have to admit, I did a full-body recoil at the sight of him... not because he's a bad actor, but because I immediately started thinking OH GOD NO Grimm is going to turn into a stupid spy show now?!

 

 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Seeing Sebastian's name mentioned made me have to bring this here from the General Hospital section, because the girl in question was on both GH and CM as well.

 

 

https://crashthesuperbowl.doritos.com/gallery/submission/4836?filter=

[Hotchgirl18]

I'm partial to the darker unsubs. The psychopaths. The Foyets and the Scratches. The ones you just love to hate. Foyet was my favorite.