WendyCR72 February 10, 2015 Share February 10, 2015 Also, the one in which the Jewish grandmother had her grandchildren's mother killed, but I forgot the title. That would be "Shandeh". Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Ironically, "Vacancy", the episode we were just talking about, will be on today's/tomorrow's marathon at 1:00 a.m. Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 "Watch" just aired an hour before, and I forgot Brad Renfro was in it. He looked to really be going places with films, but drugs took another one. He died like a mere two years after this CI appearance. So another for the "famous or almost famous actors who guest-starred in the L&O franchise" file. Speaking of famous people, Malcolm MacDowell is currently on in "Proud Flesh" and plays bitter rich old coot well. Link to comment
Donny Ketchum February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) In "Watch," I've gotta wonder how Duane, in addition to wanting to kill Art, would've also wanted to kill Logan and Barek. That reveal in the ending seemed a bit out of the blue to me. Also wondering how Art's mom wasn't busted for attempting to aid him in his escape. Edited February 14, 2015 by Donny Ketchum Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Frankly, I think it was just an excuse to use the computer animation, trying to show how tech savvy the show was. Shrug. But I'm just cynical. (As an aside, said animation looks almost primitive now.) Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Ah, "Dramma Giocoso", the world of opera, triangles, and...mad cow disease. Poor Barek and Logan looked so cold in this one. Looked it, too. Also liked hearing Lennie Briscoe once took Rodgers to the opera. Aww. One last comment about this one as I watch: It's driving me crazy - and I've no idea how I missed this before (maybe I didn't really pay attention, opera isn't my thing!), but it drives me nuts that they refer to the victim's mother as Gil-lian Booth, a la a hard "G" sound, like the man's name. It's my understanding that Gillian is pronounced just like Jillian, with a "J"/"soft G" sound. Link to comment
Eolivet February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) Don't ask me why, but I always confused "Dramma Giocoso" with "Shrink-Wrapped." Maybe because they were both about daughters with self-centered mothers, where music played a role (tangentially or otherwise) in the case? To the point where if either one of the episodes came on, I'd be like "Is this the one where the daughter's the killer? No, it's the dead daughter one." WendyCR72, I simply thought Gillian (hard G) was as pretentious as her name sounded. That was a good writing choice, if that was intentional. I can see her all her (shortened) life going, "No, it's Gillian. Like (insert name of famous composer starting with a hard G, pronounced with all the fake accent flourish possible)." Fits the character perfectly. Edited February 14, 2015 by Eolivet 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 15, 2015 Share February 15, 2015 Ah, yeah. Funny how I never connected "Shrink Wrapped" to "Dramma Giocoso", but put as it is, I can see the similarities, @Eolivet . Maybe the human mad cow disease angle gives the latter a bit more of an unusual angle, though. I can also buy "Gil"lian as being the pretentious sort of name; it certainly fits the character. Alice Krige was good, but her character was so dramatic, she almost reminded me of an old Jon Lovitz skit on SNL ages ago (and how ironic, the SNL series premiere airs tonight in keeping with its anniversary!) where he called it "ahhhcting"! And I guess effed up mom and daughter relationships could be another trope on CI. Go figure. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 20, 2015 Share February 20, 2015 This Joey Frost episode...he resurfaced in a later episode, if I recall. I liked that bit of continuity, even if his life and second chance per G/E and Deakins here didn't seem to take. Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 21, 2015 Share February 21, 2015 Ah, "To The Bone". The best part, to me, is Logan with Olivet. And, just saying, as gory as the crime scene is in this one, do set designers or makeup or who(m)ever not have a way to make old blood look brown/rust colored? The blood is always so fresh looking. (And this case would mark the beginning of the end for Deakins.) ETA: Yeah, I still really like the Logan/Olivet scene. You could glean their history in seconds. Funny, though, I never recalled the pictures Logan was looking at as Olivet told him he needed a support system. Since they were pictures of kids, I guess they were Olivet's? 1 Link to comment
Donny Ketchum February 21, 2015 Share February 21, 2015 Ah, "To The Bone". The best part, to me, is Logan with Olivet. And, just saying, as gory as the crime scene is in this one, do set designers or makeup or who(m)ever not have a way to make old blood look brown/rust colored? The blood is always so fresh looking. (And this case would mark the beginning of the end for Deakins.) ETA: Yeah, I still really like the Logan/Olivet scene. You could glean their history in seconds. Funny, though, I never recalled the pictures Logan was looking at as Olivet told him he needed a support system. Since they were pictures of kids, I guess they were Olivet's? On top of the beginning of the end for Deakins, I really hated that Whoopi's character essentially got away with every disgusting thing she'd manipulated. That was just the cherry on top of the shit sundae, right there. Unless we were supposed to assume that Logan and Barek eventually did re-gather enough evidence to nail her off-screen. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 February 21, 2015 Share February 21, 2015 On top of the beginning of the end for Deakins, I really hated that Whoopi's character essentially got away with every disgusting thing she'd manipulated. That was just the cherry on top of the shit sundae, right there. Unless we were supposed to assume that Logan and Barek eventually did re-gather enough evidence to nail her off-screen. Seems like foreshadowing when Olivet counseled him. You know, telling him that he could do everything right and still have a bad outcome. Definitely seems true in this case. Whoopi Goldberg played creepy very well. 1 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight September 5, 2015 Share September 5, 2015 "Wrongful LIfe" is on now, an episode I loved/hated at the same time. Loved the storyline, hated the way the mother treated her daughter. Talia Balsam is an exceptional actress, I still cannot believe she was married to George Clooney a long time ago. 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight September 5, 2015 Share September 5, 2015 The only reason I'm watching "Dramma Giocoso" is for the lovely Alice Krige. I had the opportunity to work with her in "Dream West" which was filmed in Richmond (for the most part) and I was an extra. I got to sit right next to her in one scene. And in-between, when we were all just hanging out waiting for our next call, she'd talk to us and tell jokes. I cannot stand the pompous ass of a conductor who somehow reminds me of Sting. Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 5, 2015 Share September 5, 2015 I like this Logan/Olivet scene in "To The Bone". True, it has much more of a Mothership vibe due to their long history there, but I do like that as it seemed to connect CI more to that universe. With the exception of the occasional cameos from Van Buren, Briscoe, and Green, etc., it sometimes looked like CI was in its own orbit (as it seemed the Mothership/SVU seemed to capitalize more on all of the connecting). And on a side note, I still don't understand the Logan/Barek scene when Logan offered to have Barek sleep on his couch. Olivet said he was trying to provoke her which...fine. But I never understood why. 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight September 5, 2015 Share September 5, 2015 I don't understand why the ME went to the opera with Lenny. Link to comment
Donny Ketchum September 5, 2015 Share September 5, 2015 The only reason I'm watching "Dramma Giocoso" is for the lovely Alice Krige. I had the opportunity to work with her in "Dream West" which was filmed in Richmond (for the most part) and I was an extra. I got to sit right next to her in one scene. And in-between, when we were all just hanging out waiting for our next call, she'd talk to us and tell jokes. Was that the terrible mother in that episode? Because that's amazing! From meeting reality stars to actual stars, it sounds like you're very much involved in the entertainment industry, @cooksdelight! As for the episode itself, if this board had a "worst parents" thread like the SVU board does, that disgusting excuse for a mother would be right at or near the top of the list. I totally agreed with Logan that there was no way she was crying for her daughter at the end of the episode. Just for herself and her imminent demise. 4 Link to comment
cooksdelight September 5, 2015 Share September 5, 2015 Yes, Alice played the horrible mother with that weird form of dementia. I worked as an extra for a long time, still getting jobs now and then in the Atlanta area where Walking Dead and Vampire Diaries are filmed. :) One thing that blew me away about Alice is that she wears next to no makeup. What you see is what you get with her, her skin is beautiful. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 6, 2015 Share September 6, 2015 I don't understand why the ME went to the opera with Lenny. Aww, true. But as it mentioned Lennie, I let it slide. :-) And hey, Briscoe > Ross. Link to comment
Maherjunkie September 9, 2015 Share September 9, 2015 Because he's Logan. That's why he came on to her. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 9, 2015 Share September 9, 2015 "Diamond Dogs" seemed more like the Mothership in tone in terms of the crime and Logan, etc. Not that it is bad at all, but it just seemed different in tone. Maybe to play to Logan's strengths. Link to comment
Donny Ketchum September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 "Diamond Dogs" seemed more like the Mothership in tone in terms of the crime and Logan, etc. Not that it is bad at all, but it just seemed different in tone. Maybe to play to Logan's strengths. I think the final "busting" scene that always happens in CI was very . . . CI-like. But yeah, the rest was more like the Mothership. But don't forget the scenes that only showed Deedee and Johnny. Those were also CI-like, as it's the only one of the L&O shows that shows villain-only scenes. (Well, SVU started doing it, too, after Warren started running that show, but still . . . at the time, only CI did scenes like those.) Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 "Acts of Contrition" reminds me how sort of unsettling Eddie, the brother of the guy beaten to a pulp by Olivia's old pals, was. Maybe that was meant to be since he killed Sister Dorothy, but still. Although I did feel bad for him because of his brother. Susan Misner did a good job as Olivia. Funny that she was also hooker Becky in S1's "Smothered" and the poor mother who got whacked by her own hubby in S8's "Family Values", too. 2 Link to comment
Spartan Girl September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 "Acts of Contrition" reminds me how sort of unsettling Eddie, the brother of the guy beaten to a pulp by Olivia's old pals, was. Maybe that was meant to be since he killed Sister Dorothy, but still. Although I did feel bad for him because of his brother. Susan Misner did a good job as Olivia. Funny that she was also hooker Becky in S1's "Smothered" and the poor mother who got whacked by her own hubby in S8's "Family Values", too. I felt bad for his brother, but not him. What happened to the brother was awful, but beating A NUN to death just because she wouldn't/couldn't give up the identity of that girl? He's no better than the bastards that brutalized his brother. Two wrongs don't make a right. 2 Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 I felt bad for his brother, but not him. What happened to the brother was awful, but beating A NUN to death just because she wouldn't/couldn't give up the identity of that girl? He's no better than the bastards that brutalized his brother. Two wrongs don't make a right. Oh, I'm not condoning what happened to Dorothy, but - and maybe I understood this wrong - wasn't she shoved? Not that that is a defensible act in itself, but I could at least view it as an unfortunate accident, being shoved and hitting her head, than being beaten. If I did miss such a detail, then yes: Eddie is as horrible as the other men he despises who brutalized his brother. And what sad irony that would be. Still, I thought Dorothy's death was more in the vein of a horrible accident by Eddie. Link to comment
Spartan Girl September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 Oh, I'm not condoning what happened to Dorothy, but - and maybe I understood this wrong - wasn't she shoved? Not that that is a defensible act in itself, but I could at least view it as an unfortunate accident, being shoved and hitting her head, than being beaten. If I did miss such a detail, then yes: Eddie is as horrible as the other men he despises who brutalized his brother. And what sad irony that would be. Still, I thought Dorothy's death was more in the vein of a horrible accident by Eddie. Dorothy's face was a mess when they found her. That doesn't happen from just being shoved. Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 Dorothy's face was a mess when they found her. That doesn't happen from just being shoved. True, but Bobby also mentioned Dorothy's head hitting the door, which is why I was wondering... Link to comment
Spartan Girl September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 Goren also mentioned the fact that Eddie had so much repressed rage, which accounted for the violence of the other blows. Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 10, 2015 Share September 10, 2015 Goren also mentioned the fact that Eddie had so much repressed rage, which accounted for the violence of the other blows. Then the warped irony stands. Eddie became like the very criminals that destroyed his brother. 1 Link to comment
Eolivet September 15, 2015 Share September 15, 2015 Okay, okay. Not just the end. I'll concede one more episode for them. I guess "Watch" was a bit dark, but again, not really for the case so much as for the perp. As fun as it always is to see Barek totally own Duane, his rather brooding reasons for killing the prostitutes just leaves me totally, completely, utterly depressed. Instead of just getting therapy, he has Art join him on a killing spree? Yeah. Kinda dark there. And that's not even to say anything about the borderline nonsensical desire to eventually want to kill Logan and Barek, both of whom initially offered to help him when they thought he was the one being coerced in helping with the killings. I mean, I liked that episode otherwise, but Duane was just plain depressing. I decided to try and watch more Barek episodes, since I liked her in "Wee Small Hours," and I just caught this one. I actually went to the season 6 thread because it was so depressing, I assumed it had to have been from that season. As I was watching Duane, I thought "Wow, Ethan Embry's face looks different" and then I realized Embry was Art and...well, his face certainly looks the same. As for Duane wanting to kill Logan and Barek, it seemed like Duane wanted to kill everyone who crossed his path. He seemed to fantasize about killing the super when he was told to stop sandblasting at 5AM, so I assumed Logan and Barek were just part of his hit list. Or he assumed they'd show up if he killed another woman. Duane's nasty indifference was only slightly more creepy than Art's incredulous denials. From Art's father to Art, bullies really never do realize the damage they cause. And now "Proud Flesh" is on and Malcolm McDowell just told his two sons "I'll outlive you all." Hiding foreshadowing in plain sight there, show. Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 15, 2015 Share September 15, 2015 And now "Proud Flesh" is on and Malcolm McDowell just told his two sons "I'll outlive you all." Hiding foreshadowing in plain sight there, show. Malcolm MacDowell's character seems like an even colder Spencer Durning from "Cold Comfort", both about using their sons and about vowing to live forever and protect their precious legacies. At least MacDowell's character didn't pretend to be a big humanitarian as Durning did. 1 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 15, 2015 Share September 15, 2015 And "Wasichu" is on, the episode about the slain Secret Service agent and the casinos. Yep, still boring. Not even Logan can save this one. 1 Link to comment
Maherjunkie September 15, 2015 Share September 15, 2015 Hold on till 5pm, we can watch Dramma Giasco! 1 Link to comment
Eolivet September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 (edited) "Vacancy" is one of those where I've seen the first five minutes approximately 347 times, the first 15 minutes about 183 times, and the ending twice. I feel like this was around the start of the "one thing changes everything" details: where we don't find out about Tim's mother's murder until 10 minutes before the show ends. (Although it just now occurs to me that listening to that tape from the FBI of a victim being killed is probably the inciting event for Tim.) I feel like this was one murder that could've been prevented by a good therapist. Actually, there are more than a few murders that fit that description. Edited September 16, 2015 by Eolivet 1 Link to comment
Maherjunkie September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I hated that one. Turgid and no one was sympathetic. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 "Vacancy" is one of those where I've seen the first five minutes approximately 347 times, the first 15 minutes about 183 times, and the ending twice. I feel like this was around the start of the "one thing changes everything" details: where we don't find out about Tim's mother's murder until 10 minutes before the show ends. (Although it just now occurs to me that listening to that tape from the FBI of a victim being killed is probably the inciting event for Tim.) I feel like this was one murder that could've been prevented by a good therapist. Actually, there are more than a few murders that fit that description. I got the impression from the cop at the precinct G/E visited that they considered Tim a poor young kid who lost his mom but that he'd be okay, being so young. Obviously, that was a huge miscalculation. But the cop did bring up a point that back in the day, there weren't really any stalker laws or protection for it, etc. On a side note, I get I was sort of supposed to perhaps feel sorry for her, but Emily Bergl's Alice annoyed me something fierce. I hated that one. Turgid and no one was sympathetic. Turgid. That's perfect. But Eames undercover as an escort for five seconds was a bit of diversion even if her clothing left a lot to be desired. "Cruise To Nowhere" is on, and I guess I should feel sorry for Joey Frost, and a part of me does, what with the murdered dad and drunk wreck of a mom, but the character himself is so abrasive that said sympathy has its limits. 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 The mom who sold him for money and a cleaning lady. That alone evokes some sympathy from me since he never had a mother who cared for him, which probably explains his personality. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Huh. So Carver did have kids? Just had a line in "Cruise To Nowhere" saying [regarding Joey's lalala tantrum] that "my kids tell the truth or go to their room". He mentioned going home to kiss his wife in "Shrink-Wrapped", so I guess Ron Carver was a family man, after all. The mom who sold him for money and a cleaning lady. That alone evokes some sympathy from me since he never had a mother who cared for him, which probably explains his personality. True. I guess that would explain his emotional maturity stopping at 10 like Goren said. 1 Link to comment
Eolivet September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I liked this one, though -- and I liked Joey. The moments with Goren, where they showed how stunted Joey's emotional development was (didn't know to buy flowers for his mom, didn't know not to bite his nails) and how the milquetoast guy from Mad About You used him...I felt sorry for Joey. I also liked what I thought were subtle clues about his emotional immaturity -- when he was demolishing a pile of chicken wings, that seemed disrespectful at the time, but it could also be construed as him not knowing any better. I'd take this episode any day (twisty, but not convoluted) over 20 "Vacancy"...s. 1 Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I'd take this episode any day (twisty, but not convoluted) over 20 "Vacancy"...s. Well, we do agree there. :-) And "To The Bone" will never be creepy, which is starting now. I think that was one of CI's goriest crime scenes. Link to comment
Eolivet September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 (edited) I'd never seen that ep all the way through and...yeah, that's one I will not be viewing again. I've read before that Chelsey Watkins was like Mike Logan's Nicole Wallace. Nicole did kill her own daughter, but I always thought her U.S. crimes were more like...long cons, with a side of murder. Like, the "joy" of her crimes was the role-playing games, and then eliminating the participants when she got bored. Chelsey just...enabled/ordered a trail of carnage and for no obvious reason, other than I presume the power she had over others. I think that's what makes this particularly brutal, to me. She didn't even commit the crimes, but just that she ordered them like mob hits. And no one, from innocent people to her own "boys," was safe. "When you have a machete, people listen up? "What, as opposed to an assault rifle? What does that even mean?! The "boys listen to their mothers" line is especially chilling, given what happened in the penultimate scene. And are we meant to think Officer Martinez (who Deakins mentions at the end) was another one of Chelsey's "boys?" Because it sure looked that way to me -- especially since the backup was late getting there and certainly seeing his old buddy could've made Detective Tarkman (?) not identify himself and think he was safe. We can debate over what is the darkest episode in the series history, but can we all agree, this is the darkest cold opening ever? I mean, the woman was alive and trying to signal she was in danger, and then knowing she let her daughter in the house? :shudders: Edited September 16, 2015 by Eolivet 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 It's hard to believe the same actress playing the geeky sister in "The Good" is the same Elisabeth Moss in this famous strut: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_m67JbGjWnc Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 It's hard to believe the same actress playing the geeky sister in "The Good" is the same Elisabeth Moss in this famous strut: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_m67JbGjWnc Yeah, she's definitely moved upward. Mad Men did her a lot of good. Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 And are we meant to think Officer Martinez (who Deakins mentions at the end) was another one of Chelsey's "boys?" Because it sure looked that way to me -- especially since the backup was late getting there and certainly seeing his old buddy could've made Detective Tarkman (?) not identify himself and think he was safe. We can debate over what is the darkest episode in the series history, but can we all agree, this is the darkest cold opening ever? I mean, the woman was alive and trying to signal she was in danger, and then knowing she let her daughter in the house? :shudders: I never thought about the other detective, but yeah, I can easily see him as one of Chesley Watkins' "boys". That whole episode was creepy as hell. And when Chesley told Logan, "Mother forgives you!", that was just chilling. And the mom at the door trying to signal, how awful. I cannot imagine being the other couple, stuck with the idea that they missed the signs. And the poor little girl. They were all as good as dead, especially since Logan/Barek said the father was the first to die, just after midnight, and the rest later. I get if the mom tried anything, the other couple probably would have also died, but - and I realize she was trapped and helpless - I'm surprised she just let her daughter come in to certain death. The whole thing was just disturbing - and helped to begin the ushering out of Deakins, so it all seemed like one big "downside" episode. 2 Link to comment
Spartan Girl September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Am I the only one that disliked the boy that eventually turns in his father for murdering that couple in "The Good"? If it was just a matter of not wanting to turn in his own father, I'd get it. But this guy almost let an innocent kid go to jail for a crime he didn't commit just because he doesn't like rich people?! Dude, war vet or not, fuck you. Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 Am I the only one that disliked the boy that eventually turns in his father for murdering that couple in "The Good"? If it was just a matter of not wanting to turn in his own father, I'd get it. But this guy almost let an innocent kid go to jail for a crime he didn't commit just because he doesn't like rich people?! Dude, war vet or not, fuck you. Yeah. At least Logan got the guy to confess and did his job, but he didn't seem too upset by the guy's thinking, either. :-\ I guess TPTB felt this covered the "all's well that ends well" credo. 1 Link to comment
cooksdelight September 16, 2015 Share September 16, 2015 I took it being a case of the guy being so enamored of his father, and wanting to please him, that he'd lie for him. WHY, I don't know, but there was something there between the two of them that kept the son from turning dad in. Link to comment
Donny Ketchum September 17, 2015 Share September 17, 2015 Well, we do agree there. :-) And "To The Bone" will never be creepy, which is starting now. I think that was one of CI's goriest crime scenes. It won't? It's creepy to me. I've always wondered if Logan and Barek ever eventually got Whoopi's character. They mentioned gathering more evidence at the end of the episode and trying to pursue the case further, so I wonder if they did more that we didn't see off-screen, possibly during Goren and Eames's on-screen events in "On Fire?" Link to comment
WendyCR72 September 17, 2015 Share September 17, 2015 Whoops! Make that "To The Bone" will never NOT be creepy. Important addition there... 1 Link to comment
Maherjunkie September 17, 2015 Share September 17, 2015 I liked this one, though -- and I liked Joey. The moments with Goren, where they showed how stunted Joey's emotional development was (didn't know to buy flowers for his mom, didn't know not to bite his nails) and how the milquetoast guy from Mad About You used him If this is the case I'm still 10. I just think hating rich people was a cover, the kid couldn't face what his father did. Link to comment
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